Dear all,
An employee can be terminated without domestic enquiry, only if he commits or involves any serious criminal offence. whether such crime occurred within the premises of the company or outside is immaterial...
jeevanantham s
advocate, chennai
From India, Chennai
9An employee can be terminated without domestic enquiry, only if he commits or involves any serious criminal offence. whether such crime occurred within the premises of the company or outside is immaterial...
jeevanantham s
advocate, chennai
From India, Chennai
In my view, you cannot terminate an employee without domestic inquiry for committing even a serious offence unless there is an enabling provision in the srvcie rules/standing orders or a stute that governs the service conditions of the employee.
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
B.Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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A model query: What if the contract employee commits breach of trust, or theft or some other criminal offence punishable both under the PE's rules, IPC/Cr.PC etc.? The PE doesn't have the right to ban/bar him(terminate or expel or prosecute etc.) despite the fact that he is not directly employed by the PE ?.Does the accused CL enjoys immunity under the CLRA Act or such acts ?
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This is for the queriest (for further clarifications on this issue):
"Q. Who is to take disciplinary action against contract labor? Under what rules? Are
standing orders applicable to contract labour?
Ans. Contractor as employer in relation to contract workman should take disciplinary action against such errant workman under the service rules of his organization / terms of
employment. Standing Orders are not applicable to contract labour as the definition of the
workman under Industrial Employment Standing Order Act does not cover contract labour
unless your Standing Orders cover this category."
kumar.s.
From India, Bangalore
A model query: What if the contract employee commits breach of trust, or theft or some other criminal offence punishable both under the PE's rules, IPC/Cr.PC etc.? The PE doesn't have the right to ban/bar him(terminate or expel or prosecute etc.) despite the fact that he is not directly employed by the PE ?.Does the accused CL enjoys immunity under the CLRA Act or such acts ?
-------------
This is for the queriest (for further clarifications on this issue):
"Q. Who is to take disciplinary action against contract labor? Under what rules? Are
standing orders applicable to contract labour?
Ans. Contractor as employer in relation to contract workman should take disciplinary action against such errant workman under the service rules of his organization / terms of
employment. Standing Orders are not applicable to contract labour as the definition of the
workman under Industrial Employment Standing Order Act does not cover contract labour
unless your Standing Orders cover this category."
kumar.s.
From India, Bangalore
Dear All;
1. If a contract labour commits theft or other serious misconduct, it is not that contract labour gets immunity. Contractor on his own, or at least after finding out by principal employer, has to take action. Contractor is employer and has the authority to employ or terminate his labour.
2. Standing Orders can become applicable to contractor if he employes 50/100 labour as the case may be as per rules in different states. Even if the contractor employs less than that number, he is governed by court made laws, principles of natural justice. Contractor cannot summarily dismiss his labour. Since, contract labour is not organised, contractor can orally tell the labour to go and that the end of labour's employment. But that is a different thing. Legally speaking what is given above will hold.
Vibhakar Ramtirthkar
SVR Associates
HR Consultant
From India, Pune
1. If a contract labour commits theft or other serious misconduct, it is not that contract labour gets immunity. Contractor on his own, or at least after finding out by principal employer, has to take action. Contractor is employer and has the authority to employ or terminate his labour.
2. Standing Orders can become applicable to contractor if he employes 50/100 labour as the case may be as per rules in different states. Even if the contractor employs less than that number, he is governed by court made laws, principles of natural justice. Contractor cannot summarily dismiss his labour. Since, contract labour is not organised, contractor can orally tell the labour to go and that the end of labour's employment. But that is a different thing. Legally speaking what is given above will hold.
Vibhakar Ramtirthkar
SVR Associates
HR Consultant
From India, Pune
Dear Prashant
It seems the responses to your original query stands "vitiated" by the usage of wrong terminologies i.e. using the term "Principal Employer".
I do not know, if you are aware of the real meaning of the term. Perhaps you thought by adding a serious-sounding prefix like "principal" you"ll make the word have more emphasis.
This is evident from your second response, when members were confused.
However, your response again adds to the confusion.
Either you should have accepted your lapse; or should have paraphrased (re-stated) your query.
What do you mean by : "Principal employer = employer" ??
Do you mean that the Left Hand Side is equal to R.H.S. ??
Implying that both are the same thing ??
No wonder, the responses you are receiving are confusing and contradictory.
It is like saying, "Father in-law = Father"
It may be in spirit; but while asking questions of technical nature; one should be very specific.
Please, deliberate on what you want to know; and then ask the right questions.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
It seems the responses to your original query stands "vitiated" by the usage of wrong terminologies i.e. using the term "Principal Employer".
I do not know, if you are aware of the real meaning of the term. Perhaps you thought by adding a serious-sounding prefix like "principal" you"ll make the word have more emphasis.
This is evident from your second response, when members were confused.
However, your response again adds to the confusion.
Either you should have accepted your lapse; or should have paraphrased (re-stated) your query.
What do you mean by : "Principal employer = employer" ??
Do you mean that the Left Hand Side is equal to R.H.S. ??
Implying that both are the same thing ??
No wonder, the responses you are receiving are confusing and contradictory.
It is like saying, "Father in-law = Father"
It may be in spirit; but while asking questions of technical nature; one should be very specific.
Please, deliberate on what you want to know; and then ask the right questions.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Hansdah, I am very sorry for wrongly writing " Principal Employer " . Actually I wanted to know can employer terminate employee without any domestic enquiry.
From India, Pune
From India, Pune
Dear Prashant
Thanks for re-stating your query.
Now, it gives an entirely new perspective; and the discussions will now follow in the right directions; unclouded by any reference to contractor or contractor's employees.
While awaiting fresh response; I find that in some posts this query has been answered adequately.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Thanks for re-stating your query.
Now, it gives an entirely new perspective; and the discussions will now follow in the right directions; unclouded by any reference to contractor or contractor's employees.
While awaiting fresh response; I find that in some posts this query has been answered adequately.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
ANONYMOUS
Hello..The fallowing case study of CPSU applied self-termination clause with out domestic enquiry
on case grounds & chances in SC,appeal dismissed in Kar HC 10-11-2014 judgment link fallowing
http://judgmenthck.kar.nic.in/judgments/handle/123456789/904828
http://judgmenthck.kar.nic.in/judgments/handle/123456789/931584
I am AGM engg and project ID no1476 since 2007 in Karnataka Antiboitic and
pharmaceticals Ltd a PSU in Bangalore In mid of project assignment to me since 2008 management transferred to Engineering stores on jan2013 where there is no salary reduction later transfer to marketing department as AGM marketing medicine sales on oct2013 hopeing transfer may not be as per psu transfer policy within 10 months without validating purpose of appointment and posting at Guwathi
CDA rules and Transfer policy is not accesable Transfer may be a revenege by senior officer for refusing to amend a vendor purchase order when I was project incharge even after convinceing for techno commecial reasons which will increase project cost Later understood with project the order ammenedment done with consultant approval against the tender terms The transfer letter dated oct 2013 signed by GM HRD is not appointing authority as per my appointment letter or one level above and do not indicate the Guwathi company present or establishment address details as per the PSUs guidelines with more clarity to employee with benefit of transfer etc and reporting to GM marketing at Bangalore head office Hence representation made for reconsider the transfer the same was rejected hence compiled to take legal opinion Even HC court order for reconsideration of transfer as a engineer may not be suitable to sell medicines it may lead to change of service conditions and will defeat the post and purpose of appointment was rejected by HRD
I have reported duty at Bangalore marketing dept at head office and long medical leaves more the 60days here HRD coulded have revoked selftermination clause on unthorised absent but leasves sanctioned by GM HRD not GM marktg Then reporting officer forced to recive the letter as Manager a depromated post with out domestic enquiry and chargesheet Letter do not mention company establishment adress details and reporting officer sittng in Bangalore office Later in jan2014 reached Guwathi and started working from hotel communicating by personal email ID company did not give official mail ID Daily report emails are treated as work attendence hopeing that company may support in future with office infrastuctre and staff at AGM grade but refused the same in writing This seems be a malafide intention transfer and misuse of public power Later forced to work further lower post as medical representive After almost 2 years of physical mental harashment salary reduction salary deduction by unexplained reasons nonpayment of march2014 salary but income tax deducted
With this Vacated the Guwhati Later on jan2016 company settled my dues on account of selftermination or self abondend the service or unthorized absent without conducting domestic enquiry and without my resignation I hope based on CDA rules approved by cvc protection of PSU employee by Article 14 16 and 21
kindly note below Link's for reference
http://alrafeeq.blogspot.in/2008/02/dismissal-without-enquiry.html?showComment=1454675559570&m=1#c227827 5639277268737
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/389826/
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/judiciary/If-the-transfer-of-employee-based-on-illegal-consideration-than-court-can-interfere-and-reversed-the-decision-3698.asp#.VwP9t1O3Qb3
http://www.hrinfo.in/2015/12/case-laws-2014.html?m=1
Case no P&H HC 31
Poor employee has got gratuity without resignation/termination/VRS/VRS
& Without service certificates?
Ruined employee & his family?
CPSU is acted legally?
P.s.kindly copy & paste the links
From India, Bangalore
Hello..The fallowing case study of CPSU applied self-termination clause with out domestic enquiry
on case grounds & chances in SC,appeal dismissed in Kar HC 10-11-2014 judgment link fallowing
http://judgmenthck.kar.nic.in/judgments/handle/123456789/904828
http://judgmenthck.kar.nic.in/judgments/handle/123456789/931584
I am AGM engg and project ID no1476 since 2007 in Karnataka Antiboitic and
pharmaceticals Ltd a PSU in Bangalore In mid of project assignment to me since 2008 management transferred to Engineering stores on jan2013 where there is no salary reduction later transfer to marketing department as AGM marketing medicine sales on oct2013 hopeing transfer may not be as per psu transfer policy within 10 months without validating purpose of appointment and posting at Guwathi
CDA rules and Transfer policy is not accesable Transfer may be a revenege by senior officer for refusing to amend a vendor purchase order when I was project incharge even after convinceing for techno commecial reasons which will increase project cost Later understood with project the order ammenedment done with consultant approval against the tender terms The transfer letter dated oct 2013 signed by GM HRD is not appointing authority as per my appointment letter or one level above and do not indicate the Guwathi company present or establishment address details as per the PSUs guidelines with more clarity to employee with benefit of transfer etc and reporting to GM marketing at Bangalore head office Hence representation made for reconsider the transfer the same was rejected hence compiled to take legal opinion Even HC court order for reconsideration of transfer as a engineer may not be suitable to sell medicines it may lead to change of service conditions and will defeat the post and purpose of appointment was rejected by HRD
I have reported duty at Bangalore marketing dept at head office and long medical leaves more the 60days here HRD coulded have revoked selftermination clause on unthorised absent but leasves sanctioned by GM HRD not GM marktg Then reporting officer forced to recive the letter as Manager a depromated post with out domestic enquiry and chargesheet Letter do not mention company establishment adress details and reporting officer sittng in Bangalore office Later in jan2014 reached Guwathi and started working from hotel communicating by personal email ID company did not give official mail ID Daily report emails are treated as work attendence hopeing that company may support in future with office infrastuctre and staff at AGM grade but refused the same in writing This seems be a malafide intention transfer and misuse of public power Later forced to work further lower post as medical representive After almost 2 years of physical mental harashment salary reduction salary deduction by unexplained reasons nonpayment of march2014 salary but income tax deducted
With this Vacated the Guwhati Later on jan2016 company settled my dues on account of selftermination or self abondend the service or unthorized absent without conducting domestic enquiry and without my resignation I hope based on CDA rules approved by cvc protection of PSU employee by Article 14 16 and 21
kindly note below Link's for reference
http://alrafeeq.blogspot.in/2008/02/dismissal-without-enquiry.html?showComment=1454675559570&m=1#c227827 5639277268737
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/389826/
http://www.lawyersclubindia.com/judiciary/If-the-transfer-of-employee-based-on-illegal-consideration-than-court-can-interfere-and-reversed-the-decision-3698.asp#.VwP9t1O3Qb3
http://www.hrinfo.in/2015/12/case-laws-2014.html?m=1
Case no P&H HC 31
Poor employee has got gratuity without resignation/termination/VRS/VRS
& Without service certificates?
Ruined employee & his family?
CPSU is acted legally?
P.s.kindly copy & paste the links
From India, Bangalore
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