Hi Neeraj, Thanks for appreciation and understanding my point of view on the point in issue. reagrds,Yours truly, Satish Kumar Dhanwal, Head (HR), NTPC Foundation, Noida
From India, Delhi
27From India, Delhi
Dear All,
I am in all agreement with Mr.Satish Kumar Dhanwal because he is right!!!
Firstly, what is going on in the mind of the CEO, assuming that he is sound? What's the purpose of issuing the letter of intent....what meaning is it to serve? All relationships as per a valid contract have reciprocating responsibilities towards one another (parties to the contract). This responsibility can in other word referred to as the consideration that is an important element of any contract which is good in the eyes of law and without which no contractual relationship is valid. Does the CEO in such a case look for an invalid and illegal relationship (grrrrrrr....???) or giving him some credit, may be he means that instead of making an offer that would be (situationally or circumstantially) disadvantageous to the party making an offer, the CEO wants to make what is otherwise known as "an invitation to offer". Say for example, an invitation to sell is different from the offer to sell (Refer "Law of Contracts") .If so, then an appropriately drafted and tilted document needs to be done and according to me it should not be a letter of intent. May be the CEO was using this term not technically but in the normal spoken English parlance!!! Any more comments?? Views???
M.A.Ganju
From United Arab Emirates, Sharjah
I am in all agreement with Mr.Satish Kumar Dhanwal because he is right!!!
Firstly, what is going on in the mind of the CEO, assuming that he is sound? What's the purpose of issuing the letter of intent....what meaning is it to serve? All relationships as per a valid contract have reciprocating responsibilities towards one another (parties to the contract). This responsibility can in other word referred to as the consideration that is an important element of any contract which is good in the eyes of law and without which no contractual relationship is valid. Does the CEO in such a case look for an invalid and illegal relationship (grrrrrrr....???) or giving him some credit, may be he means that instead of making an offer that would be (situationally or circumstantially) disadvantageous to the party making an offer, the CEO wants to make what is otherwise known as "an invitation to offer". Say for example, an invitation to sell is different from the offer to sell (Refer "Law of Contracts") .If so, then an appropriately drafted and tilted document needs to be done and according to me it should not be a letter of intent. May be the CEO was using this term not technically but in the normal spoken English parlance!!! Any more comments?? Views???
M.A.Ganju
From United Arab Emirates, Sharjah
Dear Mr.Sathish & other friends,
Thanks for your valued opinion. Ethically issuing 'Letter of Intent' is wrong, but I waanted a legal perspective, whether issuing "Offer Letter" will legally bind organisations to recruit him. If os, then is it safe to issue 'Letter of Intent'. What does legality & law of the land says.
Bibek Banerjee
From India, Calcutta
Thanks for your valued opinion. Ethically issuing 'Letter of Intent' is wrong, but I waanted a legal perspective, whether issuing "Offer Letter" will legally bind organisations to recruit him. If os, then is it safe to issue 'Letter of Intent'. What does legality & law of the land says.
Bibek Banerjee
From India, Calcutta
Hi banerji,
There are so many slips between the cups and lips. When an offer has been made it does not automatically legall bind both the parties till is accepted by the other party. You seem to have an unsderstanding that once an offer has been issued it becomes binding on the employer.The approach from both the parties should be humane and legal i.e. the employer and the candidate whom offer has been made. I know young educated & qualified lads misusing the offer of appointemnet for getting better offer from another employer or from the employer with whom they are presently working. These are pressure tactics which better works in politics and international relations. One will lose his credibilty in the job market once he is exposed with his pressure tactics and may be nobody who now knows the candidate will offer him job. Otherwise also fron his CV it can be gauged. I hope i have been able to satisfy your urge for clarification on this point is issue raised by you. :) :idea:
regards,
Yours,
Satish Kumar
Head (HR),
NTPC Foundation,
Noida
From India, Delhi
There are so many slips between the cups and lips. When an offer has been made it does not automatically legall bind both the parties till is accepted by the other party. You seem to have an unsderstanding that once an offer has been issued it becomes binding on the employer.The approach from both the parties should be humane and legal i.e. the employer and the candidate whom offer has been made. I know young educated & qualified lads misusing the offer of appointemnet for getting better offer from another employer or from the employer with whom they are presently working. These are pressure tactics which better works in politics and international relations. One will lose his credibilty in the job market once he is exposed with his pressure tactics and may be nobody who now knows the candidate will offer him job. Otherwise also fron his CV it can be gauged. I hope i have been able to satisfy your urge for clarification on this point is issue raised by you. :) :idea:
regards,
Yours,
Satish Kumar
Head (HR),
NTPC Foundation,
Noida
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr.Satish Kumar,
While in general I agree with your above reply (definitely a wise and commonsense point of view), I do not think there is really anything wrong in a prospective employee using the letter of appointment (wisely, discretely and if warranted to strengthen one's point) for negotiating a better deal with other prospective employers than the one who had issued an appointment letter. Much depends upon the circumstances and typical situations of the particular case.
For example, say Mr.X from India, has been in Dubai for 1 1/2 months seeking a job. Subsequent to having attended an interview in a particular company (Head Office: Dubai), Mr.X gets the appointment letter to take up the position in Qatar instead of in Dubai, where this company's branch office is present. All the time, the prospective employee is not apprised or kept informed in advance about his posting. Mr.X receives the appointment letter, he signs the copy of the appointment letter as having "received the original copy", without specifically mentioning that he is "accepting the appointment". Moreover, Mr.X, (who comes to know informally about this prospective offer at the eleventh hour), orally and also immediately before receiving the appointment letter, through e-mail, makes it known to the company (Senior Manager (HR)) his inability to join in Qatar for certain valid reasons and requests the management to consider his posting in Dubai itself. Mr.X says he is ready to wait for a month or so though the prospective employer is under no obligation to post him in Dubai or provide any employment in Dubai. Now, will Mr.X's receiving the appointment letter tantamount to his acceptance? Not necessary, and this is evident from your observation too, I guess.
Now since he cannot take up the job in Qatar and at the same time not wishing to go back to India empty handed he takes the appointment letter. Since his visa processing has to be done by the company's H.O (through its another branch office in India), that issued him a appointment order, Mr.X after having expressed his inability to do so, requests the company (H.O)not to process his visa for Qatar, and further requests them to consider his posting in Dubai even if takes some more time in future. He receives an informal reply from a person representing the management that they will try though nothing is guaranteed. Mr.X, says he will still wait for the offer, but also keep trying for job opportunities meanwhile in India. (Let us assume that the final informal talks have no legal bearance and have no significance to what I am trying to point out here now). Now, Mr.X also keeps seeking for job opportunities on his return to India. Can he use this appointment order in order to demonstrate a point with (other) prospective employers (in India) with whom he is attending an interview and negotiations or not? How you look at this is dependent on that specific situation. Does not Mr.X have the right to project his case of worthiness and employability if deemed necessary or where a point so arises to defend his terms of negotiation, with other prospective employers if warranted?
When it comes to the prospective employee is it wrong, where as when it comes to the negotiations / bargaining by the prospective employer, anything they do and say, is right? Don't we see, that most of the time it is the prospective employers who have an advantage, an upper hand and a better say (usually)? And how ethical and morally right are the so called representatives of these prospective employers, who keep telling the prospects, without themselves in any way being sure, that "the sky is the limit" for the prospective employees' growth; "will consider this or that at the time of confirmation or 6 months later, etc" ??? For instance, what moral right or business do prospective employers have to negotiate on the BASIS of the employee' previous CTC??? Is it not a free market where the supply and demand and the negotiating abilities and ethics should be equally applicable. (I am against the eye for an eye tactics or unethical methods).
To draw conclusions including from what you have said, either parties can have a right to know certain pertinent information they require but they cannot solely use that as the point of reasoning out or basing their argument or justifying their offers or built up biases to coerce the other party into it, when the other party feels that information revealed is being unjustly the basis for the other's unfair negotiating tactics or being used against him. THAT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT OUGHT TO BE THE CASE, IS A DIFFERENT MATTER. But, before any party points out a finger at the other, the finger pointer should also see how many of his / her own fingers are pointed towards himself / herself. One ought not to stereotype the other.Your comments please?!!!
Regards,
M.A.Ganju
Now,Mr.X returns to india
From United Arab Emirates, Sharjah
While in general I agree with your above reply (definitely a wise and commonsense point of view), I do not think there is really anything wrong in a prospective employee using the letter of appointment (wisely, discretely and if warranted to strengthen one's point) for negotiating a better deal with other prospective employers than the one who had issued an appointment letter. Much depends upon the circumstances and typical situations of the particular case.
For example, say Mr.X from India, has been in Dubai for 1 1/2 months seeking a job. Subsequent to having attended an interview in a particular company (Head Office: Dubai), Mr.X gets the appointment letter to take up the position in Qatar instead of in Dubai, where this company's branch office is present. All the time, the prospective employee is not apprised or kept informed in advance about his posting. Mr.X receives the appointment letter, he signs the copy of the appointment letter as having "received the original copy", without specifically mentioning that he is "accepting the appointment". Moreover, Mr.X, (who comes to know informally about this prospective offer at the eleventh hour), orally and also immediately before receiving the appointment letter, through e-mail, makes it known to the company (Senior Manager (HR)) his inability to join in Qatar for certain valid reasons and requests the management to consider his posting in Dubai itself. Mr.X says he is ready to wait for a month or so though the prospective employer is under no obligation to post him in Dubai or provide any employment in Dubai. Now, will Mr.X's receiving the appointment letter tantamount to his acceptance? Not necessary, and this is evident from your observation too, I guess.
Now since he cannot take up the job in Qatar and at the same time not wishing to go back to India empty handed he takes the appointment letter. Since his visa processing has to be done by the company's H.O (through its another branch office in India), that issued him a appointment order, Mr.X after having expressed his inability to do so, requests the company (H.O)not to process his visa for Qatar, and further requests them to consider his posting in Dubai even if takes some more time in future. He receives an informal reply from a person representing the management that they will try though nothing is guaranteed. Mr.X, says he will still wait for the offer, but also keep trying for job opportunities meanwhile in India. (Let us assume that the final informal talks have no legal bearance and have no significance to what I am trying to point out here now). Now, Mr.X also keeps seeking for job opportunities on his return to India. Can he use this appointment order in order to demonstrate a point with (other) prospective employers (in India) with whom he is attending an interview and negotiations or not? How you look at this is dependent on that specific situation. Does not Mr.X have the right to project his case of worthiness and employability if deemed necessary or where a point so arises to defend his terms of negotiation, with other prospective employers if warranted?
When it comes to the prospective employee is it wrong, where as when it comes to the negotiations / bargaining by the prospective employer, anything they do and say, is right? Don't we see, that most of the time it is the prospective employers who have an advantage, an upper hand and a better say (usually)? And how ethical and morally right are the so called representatives of these prospective employers, who keep telling the prospects, without themselves in any way being sure, that "the sky is the limit" for the prospective employees' growth; "will consider this or that at the time of confirmation or 6 months later, etc" ??? For instance, what moral right or business do prospective employers have to negotiate on the BASIS of the employee' previous CTC??? Is it not a free market where the supply and demand and the negotiating abilities and ethics should be equally applicable. (I am against the eye for an eye tactics or unethical methods).
To draw conclusions including from what you have said, either parties can have a right to know certain pertinent information they require but they cannot solely use that as the point of reasoning out or basing their argument or justifying their offers or built up biases to coerce the other party into it, when the other party feels that information revealed is being unjustly the basis for the other's unfair negotiating tactics or being used against him. THAT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT OUGHT TO BE THE CASE, IS A DIFFERENT MATTER. But, before any party points out a finger at the other, the finger pointer should also see how many of his / her own fingers are pointed towards himself / herself. One ought not to stereotype the other.Your comments please?!!!
Regards,
M.A.Ganju
Now,Mr.X returns to india
From United Arab Emirates, Sharjah
Dear All
LOI as it is called is very much in us in other fields other than Contracts of Personal Service,but with the advent of Globalisation it can make inroads into this field too.Unless an action is tested in breach or its unfairness by a Court of Law the field is open for introducing innovative practices like LOI even inContracts of Personal Service.Till such time No practice as such can be ruled out just like that.
With Regards
V.Sounder Rajan
E-mail :
From India, Bangalore
LOI as it is called is very much in us in other fields other than Contracts of Personal Service,but with the advent of Globalisation it can make inroads into this field too.Unless an action is tested in breach or its unfairness by a Court of Law the field is open for introducing innovative practices like LOI even inContracts of Personal Service.Till such time No practice as such can be ruled out just like that.
With Regards
V.Sounder Rajan
E-mail :
From India, Bangalore
Since we are talking about offer letter and appointment letter i have a question in NGO sector how long the employee can be in contract? if we can give him every 11 months fresh contract is it okey? but this also how long can we give. can anybody give good suggestions?
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Offer of Appointment is not much more deferrent than Offer Letter. the main thing is the intention.
From India, Calcutta
From India, Calcutta
All
why would you offer a letter of intent? that's crazy if you feel that the candidate is not the right person for the post keep looking this is not good business for your org. Be sure that when you give someone the "intent " that you make them a "offer" again if you are on the fence .. there is a old saying "when there's a doubt pull it out"
Regards,
Jermaine Morris
HRG- Chicago
From United States, Chicago
why would you offer a letter of intent? that's crazy if you feel that the candidate is not the right person for the post keep looking this is not good business for your org. Be sure that when you give someone the "intent " that you make them a "offer" again if you are on the fence .. there is a old saying "when there's a doubt pull it out"
Regards,
Jermaine Morris
HRG- Chicago
From United States, Chicago
Fully agree with Mr Satish and Ms Manisha. As HR Professional we should remember that what we are dealing with are humans and so should we be HUMANE in our dealings. Letter of Intent is more of an agreement for purchases of shares or assets / works /lease agreements etc. But Offer letter is as the name suggests an Offer made to an individual for hiring his services and it also reflects the ethics practiced in ones organisation.
You should go ahead with Offer Letter which is more professional and ethical..
Jignesh Patel
GM HR
GLPC Ltd
From India, Pune
You should go ahead with Offer Letter which is more professional and ethical..
Jignesh Patel
GM HR
GLPC Ltd
From India, Pune
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