I am not so sure that "............action shall definitely be taken by the top management against the manager...".I beg to differ . Normally if it is a matter between non managerial staff and a manager then the top management seldom takes any punitive action against manager even if he is at fault.At the most they shall ask him (that too verbally) not to do this again ! However if by any chance the unit head has some grudge against this manager then he/she shall use this oppurtunity to settle scores with him.
From India, New Delhi
104From India, New Delhi
Dear Sandeep,
Shri Raj Kumar Hansdah has very aptly advised you. By the way, do not you feel that you have become over sentimental and emotional in this case? Also, may that not be with any wrong intention on your part, but don't you feel that you have skipped one step for the purpose of close coordination within the organisation by ignoring the instructions of some superior, when you say, "I got a call from my account manager to discuss about it. Then, I received a mail from cluster head to travel as he is the one who has discussed with my manager. I took his mail as approval and travelled." Just think, whether that mail stated anywhere that there was no need for you to meet the account manager.
May the "testing competency" would have contacted the Account Manager on your asking to get in touch with him, but responsibility to ensure proper invoicing and accounting rests with the accounts department. The Accounts Manager would have been interested only to avoid any communication gap in a triangle of the 'accounts manager,' 'competency' and you, as only you were supposed to visit on site for the purpose of testing/delivery in SAP competency, whatever may be.
Since you are also of the status of a manager, just think, for the purpose of proper coordination, as a part of your responsibility, had you asked someone to meet you for discussion before his proceeding on site in order to ensure proper testing and his superior would have directed him to proceed, would you not feel that you have been ignored by the said person.
Here, if the competency would have approved your tour/ travel that did not mean the element of coordination between the other concerned department was dispensed with, unless desired so formally.
In any organisation, close coordination between the concerned departments is a must. Though the competence has done its duty on his part to approve your travel, but would not have restrained you or disapproved your meeting with the Account Manager.
So, in case you want to proceed against your company's Account manager or even the company for your satisfaction, even if the incident would have hurt your ego, what I can anticipate is that you would only be playing with your career and be loser at organisational level as well as at the court level on any one or both of the two counts, as follows:
1) Insubordination on your part, having ignored the instructions of the concerned superior authority.; and/or
2) Not discharging your responsibility with due diligence and in keeping pace with the requirements of some other related department.
SOMETIMES COMPROMISES WITH ONE'S POSITION BECOMES IMPERATIVE. SO, MY ELDERLY ADVICE IS THAT MAKE SURE NOT TO TAKE ANY STEP WHICH MAY JEOPARDISE YOUR OWN POSITION AND REPUTATION. BETTER WEIGH THE PROS & CONS OF YOUR IDEA PROPERLY BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO PROCEED FURTHER. SOME TIMES BITTERNESS OF RELATIONS BETWEEN ONE AND THE OTHER EXECUTE MAY PROVE QUITE HARMFUL TO THE INTEREST OF EACH ONE IN FUTURE DUE TO DEVELOPMENT OF REVENGEFUL ATTITUDES. NO ONE CAN ANTICIPATE WHEN ONE WOULD FEEL THE DIRE NEED OF HELP OF SOME OF HIS ADVERSARY IN SOME DIFFICULT TIME.
From India, Delhi
Shri Raj Kumar Hansdah has very aptly advised you. By the way, do not you feel that you have become over sentimental and emotional in this case? Also, may that not be with any wrong intention on your part, but don't you feel that you have skipped one step for the purpose of close coordination within the organisation by ignoring the instructions of some superior, when you say, "I got a call from my account manager to discuss about it. Then, I received a mail from cluster head to travel as he is the one who has discussed with my manager. I took his mail as approval and travelled." Just think, whether that mail stated anywhere that there was no need for you to meet the account manager.
May the "testing competency" would have contacted the Account Manager on your asking to get in touch with him, but responsibility to ensure proper invoicing and accounting rests with the accounts department. The Accounts Manager would have been interested only to avoid any communication gap in a triangle of the 'accounts manager,' 'competency' and you, as only you were supposed to visit on site for the purpose of testing/delivery in SAP competency, whatever may be.
Since you are also of the status of a manager, just think, for the purpose of proper coordination, as a part of your responsibility, had you asked someone to meet you for discussion before his proceeding on site in order to ensure proper testing and his superior would have directed him to proceed, would you not feel that you have been ignored by the said person.
Here, if the competency would have approved your tour/ travel that did not mean the element of coordination between the other concerned department was dispensed with, unless desired so formally.
In any organisation, close coordination between the concerned departments is a must. Though the competence has done its duty on his part to approve your travel, but would not have restrained you or disapproved your meeting with the Account Manager.
So, in case you want to proceed against your company's Account manager or even the company for your satisfaction, even if the incident would have hurt your ego, what I can anticipate is that you would only be playing with your career and be loser at organisational level as well as at the court level on any one or both of the two counts, as follows:
1) Insubordination on your part, having ignored the instructions of the concerned superior authority.; and/or
2) Not discharging your responsibility with due diligence and in keeping pace with the requirements of some other related department.
SOMETIMES COMPROMISES WITH ONE'S POSITION BECOMES IMPERATIVE. SO, MY ELDERLY ADVICE IS THAT MAKE SURE NOT TO TAKE ANY STEP WHICH MAY JEOPARDISE YOUR OWN POSITION AND REPUTATION. BETTER WEIGH THE PROS & CONS OF YOUR IDEA PROPERLY BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO PROCEED FURTHER. SOME TIMES BITTERNESS OF RELATIONS BETWEEN ONE AND THE OTHER EXECUTE MAY PROVE QUITE HARMFUL TO THE INTEREST OF EACH ONE IN FUTURE DUE TO DEVELOPMENT OF REVENGEFUL ATTITUDES. NO ONE CAN ANTICIPATE WHEN ONE WOULD FEEL THE DIRE NEED OF HELP OF SOME OF HIS ADVERSARY IN SOME DIFFICULT TIME.
From India, Delhi
From your post, I understand that you are not based in India, but are based in the UK. Humiliating a subordinate or harassing maybe something which maybe acceptable in India, but it is not so in the developed countries. You are protected by the work place mental and harassment guidelines and statutes. You may go ahead and file a written complaint with the authorities. The legal process in UK is swift and fair. Please take all the evidences and meet up with a good lawyer. You are also entitled for a fair compensation for the humiliation you have gone through and this could run into atleast a couple of million pounds. I have had to handle such a case in my UK office and both the concerned employee and the superior who harassed him were incidentally Indians and the concerned employee was awarded a compensation of GBP 2.5 million. Apart from that, he was declared a protected employee and was not allowed to be terminated. So please go ahead and contact a lawyer who handles work place issues.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
From Indonesia, Jakarta
Respected Members,
Anonymity of the author of the latest advice indicates, as if the author of this advice is not sure whether his advice is correct or not. More so, it reveals as if he has no sufficient courage and confidence to render advice to the querist with his real identity!
Anyway, it is up to the querist, if he prefers to adhere to the advice of some anonymous person.
From India, Delhi
Anonymity of the author of the latest advice indicates, as if the author of this advice is not sure whether his advice is correct or not. More so, it reveals as if he has no sufficient courage and confidence to render advice to the querist with his real identity!
Anyway, it is up to the querist, if he prefers to adhere to the advice of some anonymous person.
From India, Delhi
I am really sorry to see so many responces asking to let it go. I am sure you all are senior enough to understand the self respect and anyone trying to hurt that will defenitly not be taken so lightly. I believe that because most of the guys prefer to keep mumb in such incidents, we have so many such incidents and we Indians with chalta hai attitude started taking it for granted. I am sorry to most of you who tried preaching me the same attitute. Sorry again to see the responce and thought what you are teaching to your kids. I am in UK and in western world self respect is beyond everything.
I read a responce where someone said you are not women to feel harrashed. Sir, aelf respect comes irrespective of your self and I'd request everyone to understand that I'll not allow anyone to walk past me just because he is my account manager and up in hirarchy.
Please dont waste your time in responding me to tolrate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I gurantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my own solution.
Sorry if I hurt anyone with my responce but for me its much more accaptable to fight and get a result than sitting and evaluating today and thinking tommorow ki kaas i could have done it. I believe in my ability and I command the diginity of labour.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
I read a responce where someone said you are not women to feel harrashed. Sir, aelf respect comes irrespective of your self and I'd request everyone to understand that I'll not allow anyone to walk past me just because he is my account manager and up in hirarchy.
Please dont waste your time in responding me to tolrate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I gurantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my own solution.
Sorry if I hurt anyone with my responce but for me its much more accaptable to fight and get a result than sitting and evaluating today and thinking tommorow ki kaas i could have done it. I believe in my ability and I command the diginity of labour.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
Dear Sandeep,
Although it is a sheer waste of my time, as against your advice to members, but still I prefer to waste time to give my observation on your latest post.
Very wise decision, if you have decided to quit and search your own solution by using your own wisdom. Of course, you can understand your own position well, rather than any one else can, being not in direct touch with you. Nobody can or will compel you to adhere to the advice or suggestion of any one of the members of this forum. Nobody would even ask you to guarante whether you will be responsible for the results or not even as against your resolve, as any one of us has no right to ask you on that aspect. BUT, I must point out to you that your latest post speaks about your frustration and confusion, as revealed from your statement: Rather, you have given vent to your perplexion more from the following contradictory statement, which states as:
"Please dont waste your time in responding me to tolrate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I gurantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
As of contrdiction, on one hand you have desired the members to tell you the process, but on the other hand you have stated, "I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
Question arises, when you have advised the members of CiteHR, not to waste their time, as you intend not to adhere to any advice, how you expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process to deal with your problem legally? Moreover, when you are talking about the self respect with specific reference to the UK & western world as compared to your condemned Indian, "CHALTA HAI ATTITUDE," how you can expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process based on chalta hai attitude? Still further, when you are in UK, the laws of UK only can be invoked, while the Indians with the so called "chalta hai attitude" can be expected to suggest you only the Indian process with reference to the Indian laws that may not be valid in UK..
So, any advice from Indian members may not suit you the "chalta hai" attitudinal process. So, it will be better for you to consult some local UK lawyer and file a case in the court of law by using your own wisdom.
BUT DON'T FORGET, the Indian members of this forum have not charged you any fee, nor asked you to pay any, nor have been benefitted in any way in advising you voluntarily, nor any of your proposed action against the manager or your company is expected to adversely affect them in any way, if you consider them to have given you advice with their chalta hai attitude.
OF COURSE, I can advise you with reference to British Laws also, but keeping in view of your future career I did not prefer to do so. But, had you preferred to consult me in person, I would have charged my consultation fee of not less than GBP £ 200 for my advice and that too without any responsibility how that would affect you.
MIND IT, voluntary advice is always sincere and can be benficial. Your lawyer can advice you only how to proceed legally, but won't tell you the pros & cons of that process, whether that benfits you or adversely affect your future career.
Any way, you are the master of yourself, by using your own wisdon. take your own decision how to proceed administratively or legally with the help of some UK based lawyer.
Best of luck !!!!!
From India, Delhi
Although it is a sheer waste of my time, as against your advice to members, but still I prefer to waste time to give my observation on your latest post.
Very wise decision, if you have decided to quit and search your own solution by using your own wisdom. Of course, you can understand your own position well, rather than any one else can, being not in direct touch with you. Nobody can or will compel you to adhere to the advice or suggestion of any one of the members of this forum. Nobody would even ask you to guarante whether you will be responsible for the results or not even as against your resolve, as any one of us has no right to ask you on that aspect. BUT, I must point out to you that your latest post speaks about your frustration and confusion, as revealed from your statement: Rather, you have given vent to your perplexion more from the following contradictory statement, which states as:
"Please dont waste your time in responding me to tolrate this for whatever reasons you have but just tell me the process. I gurantee that I'll be responsible for the result and no one else. If Citehr suggests me that I am wasting my time here by posting this query, I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
As of contrdiction, on one hand you have desired the members to tell you the process, but on the other hand you have stated, "I am happy to quit and search for my own solution."
Question arises, when you have advised the members of CiteHR, not to waste their time, as you intend not to adhere to any advice, how you expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process to deal with your problem legally? Moreover, when you are talking about the self respect with specific reference to the UK & western world as compared to your condemned Indian, "CHALTA HAI ATTITUDE," how you can expect the members to waste their time to suggest you the process based on chalta hai attitude? Still further, when you are in UK, the laws of UK only can be invoked, while the Indians with the so called "chalta hai attitude" can be expected to suggest you only the Indian process with reference to the Indian laws that may not be valid in UK..
So, any advice from Indian members may not suit you the "chalta hai" attitudinal process. So, it will be better for you to consult some local UK lawyer and file a case in the court of law by using your own wisdom.
BUT DON'T FORGET, the Indian members of this forum have not charged you any fee, nor asked you to pay any, nor have been benefitted in any way in advising you voluntarily, nor any of your proposed action against the manager or your company is expected to adversely affect them in any way, if you consider them to have given you advice with their chalta hai attitude.
OF COURSE, I can advise you with reference to British Laws also, but keeping in view of your future career I did not prefer to do so. But, had you preferred to consult me in person, I would have charged my consultation fee of not less than GBP £ 200 for my advice and that too without any responsibility how that would affect you.
MIND IT, voluntary advice is always sincere and can be benficial. Your lawyer can advice you only how to proceed legally, but won't tell you the pros & cons of that process, whether that benfits you or adversely affect your future career.
Any way, you are the master of yourself, by using your own wisdon. take your own decision how to proceed administratively or legally with the help of some UK based lawyer.
Best of luck !!!!!
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr. Dhngra,
Your mail regarding one being anonymous reflecting on one's confidence and courage is uncalled for. ThIs site gives an option to remain anonymous and every person has a choice to remain anonymous. We are not here to get publicity or seek consulting assignments by putting up our contact details, since we are here to add value and not promote our business. I have been sent unwanted mails from consultants when I have not remained anonymous. As a CHRO of a MNC, the last thing we want is to be hounded by unsolicited messages from consultants. Hope my response to your intimidation/provocation will put the matters to rest, since in the past, there were other consultants also who have tried provoking anonymous contributors to divulge their identity. What matters is whether the posted matter adds value or not. It does not matter who posts it.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
Your mail regarding one being anonymous reflecting on one's confidence and courage is uncalled for. ThIs site gives an option to remain anonymous and every person has a choice to remain anonymous. We are not here to get publicity or seek consulting assignments by putting up our contact details, since we are here to add value and not promote our business. I have been sent unwanted mails from consultants when I have not remained anonymous. As a CHRO of a MNC, the last thing we want is to be hounded by unsolicited messages from consultants. Hope my response to your intimidation/provocation will put the matters to rest, since in the past, there were other consultants also who have tried provoking anonymous contributors to divulge their identity. What matters is whether the posted matter adds value or not. It does not matter who posts it.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
Dear Mr. Anonymous,
Asking for advice while remaining anonymous is understood, but not giving advice by hiding your identity. That, as per my belief, indicates only lack of courage and confidence. Anyway, that may be your belief or choice to remain anonymous! If that is your choice, you cannot also deprive others of having choice to make observations on anonymous advice in the open to all forum.
From India, Delhi
Asking for advice while remaining anonymous is understood, but not giving advice by hiding your identity. That, as per my belief, indicates only lack of courage and confidence. Anyway, that may be your belief or choice to remain anonymous! If that is your choice, you cannot also deprive others of having choice to make observations on anonymous advice in the open to all forum.
From India, Delhi
Dear mr Dhingra,
Thanks for offering me the discounted consultation fees for consulting but trust me seeing your free advices you will be last person for me to come to. Not to offend you or likes of you, but I feel that you are dragging the matter to an unwanted direction. For me my respect is above everything else andvit is hurt by this incident. I will not force you to put youself in my place but just request you that our thoughts are not matching and I can't take you suggestions positivly as they are making zero impact on me so please feel free not to advice me any further. I have got few responce here without doing personal attacks on personality and without any prejudice which I'll follow.
Thanks for your time anyhow and I must confess your sense of humor is really nice and I liked it.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
Thanks for offering me the discounted consultation fees for consulting but trust me seeing your free advices you will be last person for me to come to. Not to offend you or likes of you, but I feel that you are dragging the matter to an unwanted direction. For me my respect is above everything else andvit is hurt by this incident. I will not force you to put youself in my place but just request you that our thoughts are not matching and I can't take you suggestions positivly as they are making zero impact on me so please feel free not to advice me any further. I have got few responce here without doing personal attacks on personality and without any prejudice which I'll follow.
Thanks for your time anyhow and I must confess your sense of humor is really nice and I liked it.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
Dear Mr. Dhingra,
This site has given a choice to remain anonymous and that is one of the prime reasons for senior professionals to be part of the site. If this choice was not given, we would not be members here.
If I were a consultant and seeking to take advantage of the new wave social networking platform to market myself, I will surely post my details. But, I am not a consultant and I don't want to be hounded by consultants.
If you still do not understand my response, then God bless.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
This site has given a choice to remain anonymous and that is one of the prime reasons for senior professionals to be part of the site. If this choice was not given, we would not be members here.
If I were a consultant and seeking to take advantage of the new wave social networking platform to market myself, I will surely post my details. But, I am not a consultant and I don't want to be hounded by consultants.
If you still do not understand my response, then God bless.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
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