Dear Friends,Agreed this is a mistake from accountant, but why such a big hue and cry to the tune of sacking someone. You are in a era of RTI and accountability, you want a candidate to declare the assets before election. and lo here in agroup of 26 persons you can not assimilate the fact.This opinion is for us to think from some different angle. RegardsPPR
Dear Friends I feel in this case, the HR is either towing the management line blindly, as usual (there's no option in a small Pvt co.), or trying to unleash one of its sticks, as usual, that goes by the name of "confidentiality". Always the instinct of a 'policeman', the mentality of a sadist. I think being an accountant, the person is much more learned and competent in his profession than our HR friends. Please remember that HR is the only profession, where you do not need any qualification; any accreditation or certification. We have already seen, in CiteHR posts itself, that any Tom, Dick and Harry is made an HR manager/executive; be it a receptionist or any person working in office or even fresher. So, anyone can be made an HR functionary and set upon the employees to teach them "discipline". :-P I want to ask you all HR people, who are making a hue and cry over this incident; the following questions : 1. Is it a public limited company ?? 2. Is not CEO a senior functionary of the company - in most cases at least a Director ?? If the answer to both these questions is TRUE/YES; then my ultimate question is : Have you ever seen a company's Annual Report ???? (Hint : An accountant has almost always seen (rather studied) an Annual Report, so he knows what is Confidential and what is in Public Domain; whereas an HR person in most cases, has only "heard" that companies have something called Annual Report, but is ignorant of its content).:-D P.S. - If you still do not get what I am implying, please do not post derogatory posts; rather ask/discuss with a knowledgeable colleague of yours. Regards to you all, my friends - Hats off !!!!
From India, Delhi
1426From India, Delhi
Dear Manukarnika, If your appointment letter speaks about salary not to disclose then its a right time to HR to make sound in personal review of accounts guy and you r in policy concerned firm then sack him or issue him a show cause notice. Which will be a lesson for others. Thanks Karan Kesarkar
From India, Secunderabad
From India, Secunderabad
Raj- I agree that some HR professionals dont do a indepth analysis of the situation and end making judgements which are detrimental to the company and culture. But in this case specifically - we dont know wether the org involved is a Pvt Ltd or a Public compnay. I can safely assume that the company presented over here is a Pvt Ltd company - Reason: Few employees, Flat Structure, Friendly Atmosphere etc.... Secondly - if it was public, then the acocuntant would have put in a defense by showing HR the "Anuual Report" and getting a clean chit...which apprently he hasnt. Can the author of this post brief us about a) Is the org Pvt or Public and b) has the accountant put in a defense for the show cause (if at all it is issued)? If the org concerned is Pvt Ltd then - the accounttant while joining would have signed a confidentiality and non disclosure aggrement - based on the agreements the org has full rights to ask for an explaination and termed. WILL WRITE ON THIS IF I GET AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTIONS ABOVE :) Regards Trinity-Morpheus
From United Kingdom, London
From United Kingdom, London
My dear Friend Trinity I have always admired your level-headed posts and your objectivity in addressing the issues, and this post is no exception. I had requested the members specifically not to respond in profanities (or use derogatory terms)!!!!! :-D But typical HR habits die hard ... :-P In the organization where I had worked for more than twenty years starting my career as a Management Trainee and subsequently in the functional area of HR, the employees at single locations/plant exceeds a lakh - and the industry is called the "mother of all industries" and the plant is bigger than a township and the movement of materials is done only through rails; where even a newly appointed (post training and probation) HR manager would look after at least 1400 employees; the number of persons in HR deptt itself exceeds 1200; and I am just talking about one unit of the company which has one of the core values (out of total four) as - "concern for people". My team and friend would say in lighter vein, it is 'not concern for people' but 'making people concerned' and unofficial HR philosophy can be explained by providing a twist to a couplet of Ghalib (ghar sey masjid hai bahot door, chalo kisi roatey huye bachchey ko hasaya jayein) - aaj office bandh hai ---- (hr manager's name); chalo kisi hanste huey bachchey ko rulaya jay !! I have always been a crusader for "HR Managers, Be a Human first". Just tell me, can't any one find the salary of CEO from the Annual Report wherein the emoluments of all senior functionaries are disclosed to the stakeholders ??? At worst, one simply divides the amount by 12 to arrive at a monthly approximation !!!! Take a survey : You'll find not more than 3 to 4 % of HR persons have ever set their eyes upon a company's Annual Report. I have done a pilot survey, and I know it. Coming to the point; even otherwise, whether the accountant has committed this momentary lapse by commission or omission (carelessness); is the punishment of taking away his job commensurate with the offence ? Why make his and his family's life miserable ?? If you say YES, then I have nothing more to say, except that it will further strengthen my perception of the deficiencies in HR practice and practitioners. Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Hello, Being an Accounts graduate who later specialized in HR - I have had the chance to glance through a company's annual report. Could Mr. Raj please highlight how to interpret the CEO's salary - for a layman (exclude me here - exclude HR here. Include only an ordinary employee who reads the anuual report - in the way it is read by a layman.) A few points to note before we enter an argument - or blame an HR. a) If at all - there is a possibility of anyone in the company to know the salary of their CEO through any report, would there be a clause in teh CEO's appointment "your salary is confidential"? b) Assuming anyone could know the salary, why would the MD or the CEO himself request people not to share information about his salary? c) Mr. Raj - this is specific to you! Let the HR be the person who you call "some one with less sense and no brains". What happened to the CEO ? Should he not be aware that "hey big deal - the whole public out there knows my salary, so what if my team people know about it? So HR - dont make a deal about it!" And what about this intellignet accountant? He could have said "Hey HR..Read our company's annual report. There you have the CEO's information!" :-) Simple A lot of information can be gathered by the way the question is put across. It's obvious that the person who posted the query here is sure that the inforrmation on CEO's salary is not available elsewhere. Terminating the accounts person may not be the right idea. You don't have the proper information on the source of how the information was spread. If the accountant acknowledged it - well and fine, warn him! That's it. Because information has already been out - you have no choice to bring it back to the "hidden space" and rewind the situation. A strict warning would help for a) People who possess such confidential info b) People who are interested in knowing about such confidential information. The person who made a cry about CEO being paid is absolutely getting defensive. It is not salary here - that lost his job. Probably be clear to him that you are still looking for a person who would be paid his same salary (or something better), but skills that align with what your company expects. May be the terminated person is an excellent respurce for another company - but not yours. The point is "not on breach of confidentiality" but handling this "terminated guy who is deeply frustrated" - Handle it - dont run away from the "actual problem". The actual problem is "in handling the terminated person"
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
I think Trinity-Morpheus & Raj Kumar Hansdah should read carefully my (bobbydeb’s) little comment and add anything new if they have, otherwise its a waste of everybody’s time.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Asha M- What you say is right - there is a different issue related to Emp termination. (along with the one we have discussed - Non disclosure / confidentiality) Well, if you ask me, which issue is more important, I would say both, but would also say that both are different and fall under diffrent categories. The first (i.e. - Confidentiality) falls under disciplinary policy framework and the second (termination) falls under the Performance Management System. We cannot confuse both issues being less / more important. Anything / Any issue that affects the employee (or their morale) is a issue of highest importance. Would ask you a question: Supposedly you resolved the situation of ther terminated employee, would it suffice that the someone in the org (assuming that its a pvt ltd) is leaking salary figures? You would undoubtedly say 'NO' An employee is terminated after a thorough study is done and not on whims and fancies of the employer. I do agree that the situation exploded with the employee (terminated), but for an HR he is a lost case. The only thing that a HR can do in this case is help the employee out to get a new job or counsel the terminated employee. Terminations are delicate to handle and at sometime HR loose their sensitivity to deal with such situations. Experience pays in such matters. However coming back to the point - terminated cases are the lost cases. Nothing can be done about the employee, but HR can ensure that the internal atmosphere remains intact and undisturbed. But largely the implcations for terminating a single employee due to lack of performance are negligible and send a right message to the existing workforce about the expectation of the employer. I Have handled hunderds of terminations every month when i was working for a insurance firm and keeping the morale up was a challenge. The policy we adopted at that point of time was crystal clear transperency to all all employee on matters related towards their performance and parameters which could evoke terminations. And it helped because, everyonme knew their performances and knew what was coming if their performance dropped. The best way to deal with terminations is clear understanding between the management and the employee about the expected performance. And when this is clear, then scenarios like the one which happened at our collegues office could be avoided. Coming to the other important issue - Breach of NDA. You have to take steps to rectify this situation. And it could be issuing a warning letter or a show cause and subsequently reprimanding the concerned employee. You have to do it - the reason: if you dont do it now, you wont be surprised, to find the entire unit going amock and chatting gibberish. You have to put your foot dwn and nip it when in bud. What if the person (leaking info) accidently passes the information to a recruitment / consultancy / HR guy from a competing firm???? The implication of such deal would be a) Attrition b) staffing costs going high c)Training cost gets appreciated d) Delivery (when project related) gets impacted. In both the cases Communications play a vital role and knowing what to do when in these situation will save the day. Warm Regards Trinity - Morpheus
From United Kingdom, London
From United Kingdom, London
Dear Trinity, I am sure that this "issue" poppoed out only when the terminated person said that out loud - when he was frustrated. (most people tell the greatest secrets while they are not in a position to handle their emotions). I am sure each and everyone in that company had even earlier known what the CEO is paid. Poor accountant he did not know that it could finally link him. He must have been careful - and it is a blackmark in his review. A huge blackmark. But firing the accountant makes less sense to me, if it the accountant has not been "properly " oriented about such confidential information and the consequences of the same.
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
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Salary-Note.doc
SALARY SHEET CALCULATION.xls