Hi!
The exchange of ideas on this post is becocming interesting. Maybe, those interested in this topic should visit HRNET, a US (Cornell University) based discussion group (at yahoogroups: link: <http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/hrnet>
HRNET has very interesting and long-running (years of) discussion on the subject of Performance Appraisal. The exchange of ideas come from "heavyweights" on the subject matter, both for and against it.
One thing though: The idea of PA has been established to be short of the many expectations of people in HR. That's why people like us would rather talk about Performance Management System (PMS) rather than PA.
PMS offers a more complete framework. I have a site (HR-TOOLS) that discusses this matter in detail. Try visiting it and bring your ideas and discussion there. <http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/hr-tools>
Best wishes.
Ed Llarena, Jr.
Managing Partner
Emilla Consulting
From Philippines, Parañaque
89The exchange of ideas on this post is becocming interesting. Maybe, those interested in this topic should visit HRNET, a US (Cornell University) based discussion group (at yahoogroups: link: <http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/hrnet>
HRNET has very interesting and long-running (years of) discussion on the subject of Performance Appraisal. The exchange of ideas come from "heavyweights" on the subject matter, both for and against it.
One thing though: The idea of PA has been established to be short of the many expectations of people in HR. That's why people like us would rather talk about Performance Management System (PMS) rather than PA.
PMS offers a more complete framework. I have a site (HR-TOOLS) that discusses this matter in detail. Try visiting it and bring your ideas and discussion there. <http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/hr-tools>
Best wishes.
Ed Llarena, Jr.
Managing Partner
Emilla Consulting
From Philippines, Parañaque
·Do you feel appraisal for employees on contract is required?
I saw this poll, in all three votes were there and each one was in the favour that is “ yes appraisal for employee on contract is preferable”.
No doubt there are many problems, which are linked with appraisal process, one of them, which I came across, is that “Who is the best judge to judge once performance.”
In case, a superior who is going to evaluate an employee got transferred to another unit or he left the job and a new person get posted there with the work of appraisal too, which usually happen in the companies. Here the question which arises is that, how can one judge or evaluate a person who is a total stranger that too by only following the data entries.
Even in case of 360 degree same brand of problem crop up, that is whether the feedback provided by others have more weight than the evaluation of the immediate superior who is with the employee most of the time? In the case of customers or the suppliers, do they have time to sit down and understand the PA system that the company is using and the degree of its importance?
·Even I agree with the statement that to have two segments of appraisal system is time consuming process as well as cost consuming!!
Recently I had a talk with an HR person of a very reputed company and I asked him the same doubt of mine regarding Performance Appraisal and Rise in Incentives. He directly replied me that no company has so much of time and money to spend on such issues its just on papers, all concepts like 360 , kaizen all are there but rule is that if you are good enough and secondly in the eye of management you are safe, but you need to be The Best and I was amazed when he said that today there is no need to rush for competent people because there are so many, what you need to do is, Jut pick one.
That was a bit demotivating and harsh too :( , may be because I was aware of such things but heard for the first time but at the same time I was happy that he stated me something true and real. But still i think not all companies do it that way :)
Regards
Neha Sharma
From India, Mumbai
I saw this poll, in all three votes were there and each one was in the favour that is “ yes appraisal for employee on contract is preferable”.
No doubt there are many problems, which are linked with appraisal process, one of them, which I came across, is that “Who is the best judge to judge once performance.”
In case, a superior who is going to evaluate an employee got transferred to another unit or he left the job and a new person get posted there with the work of appraisal too, which usually happen in the companies. Here the question which arises is that, how can one judge or evaluate a person who is a total stranger that too by only following the data entries.
Even in case of 360 degree same brand of problem crop up, that is whether the feedback provided by others have more weight than the evaluation of the immediate superior who is with the employee most of the time? In the case of customers or the suppliers, do they have time to sit down and understand the PA system that the company is using and the degree of its importance?
·Even I agree with the statement that to have two segments of appraisal system is time consuming process as well as cost consuming!!
Recently I had a talk with an HR person of a very reputed company and I asked him the same doubt of mine regarding Performance Appraisal and Rise in Incentives. He directly replied me that no company has so much of time and money to spend on such issues its just on papers, all concepts like 360 , kaizen all are there but rule is that if you are good enough and secondly in the eye of management you are safe, but you need to be The Best and I was amazed when he said that today there is no need to rush for competent people because there are so many, what you need to do is, Jut pick one.
That was a bit demotivating and harsh too :( , may be because I was aware of such things but heard for the first time but at the same time I was happy that he stated me something true and real. But still i think not all companies do it that way :)
Regards
Neha Sharma
From India, Mumbai
Hi Neha,
Your thought process really amazes me!! Keep it up..
Selection of raters is very critical – that’s why this function for 360 is outsourced to consultants to ensure the feedback & ratings are well explained and handled well mostly for developmental functions.
Your friend was right that PA is linked to incentives but do not agree with his second view that there are many competent people available and one has to just pick one…may be he gave the general opinion based on the his experience in his industry but the fact is Recruiters and Companies are always looking for competent professionals all the time who are becoming a rare breed. It’s not easy to attract them unless the organization is well known or renowned for specifics segments.
Hey be optimistic…there is so much to learn and we HR professionals have miles n miles to go!!...Think it in this perspectives - you have many challenges to overcome..
Cheerio
Rajat Joshi
From India, Pune
Your thought process really amazes me!! Keep it up..
Selection of raters is very critical – that’s why this function for 360 is outsourced to consultants to ensure the feedback & ratings are well explained and handled well mostly for developmental functions.
Your friend was right that PA is linked to incentives but do not agree with his second view that there are many competent people available and one has to just pick one…may be he gave the general opinion based on the his experience in his industry but the fact is Recruiters and Companies are always looking for competent professionals all the time who are becoming a rare breed. It’s not easy to attract them unless the organization is well known or renowned for specifics segments.
Hey be optimistic…there is so much to learn and we HR professionals have miles n miles to go!!...Think it in this perspectives - you have many challenges to overcome..
Cheerio
Rajat Joshi
From India, Pune
I agree with Rajat. Competent people are becoming a rare breed. It's becoming amazingly difficult to attract and retain them as employees. Most of the people who are good either start their own small consultancy or opt to work for the biggest of companies.
We recently lost a very good developer to HP. But our retention measures are highly obsure [meaning.. they don't exist] so I don't blame that guy for looking for better options.
As a matter of fact even I may start up my own IT consultancy in a year or so. :wink:
Though i am worried about how it would be possible to employ some good employees.
Already getting nightmares! My best employee walking out the door saying "I QUIT!" :x
:roll:
From India, Gurgaon
We recently lost a very good developer to HP. But our retention measures are highly obsure [meaning.. they don't exist] so I don't blame that guy for looking for better options.
As a matter of fact even I may start up my own IT consultancy in a year or so. :wink:
Though i am worried about how it would be possible to employ some good employees.
Already getting nightmares! My best employee walking out the door saying "I QUIT!" :x
:roll:
From India, Gurgaon
pay them higher with every kind of perks with lavishing holiday packages specially those know how to make use of all of your man power, they are going to be around. Specially u should learn Harry Loopman philosophy for the good work out through in recruitment. Some of the company had to or follow or restored to mechanism 'i take care of you take care of me'
which makes both party commited to each other and produce results and perform better consequently increase in hefty pay packages.
But to go to next level if know specially Narrow Fire Techniques developed by and has beed agenda of six sigma and their black belt programs u are likely to get results from both layers.
John
From India, Delhi
which makes both party commited to each other and produce results and perform better consequently increase in hefty pay packages.
But to go to next level if know specially Narrow Fire Techniques developed by and has beed agenda of six sigma and their black belt programs u are likely to get results from both layers.
John
From India, Delhi
Hi!
Again for those who have not visited HRNET, I would like to invite you to visit it and see the discussion threads on the subject matter, especially the latest exhange of ideas between me and Gary Lear on the subject: "Performance Management: This Time Individual".
I would also like to offer two (2) good readings related to the subject matter, namely: Gallup's "The Four Disciplines of Sustainable Growth" and Malcolm Galdwell's "The Talent Myth".
Those who are very new in PA are advised to read some HR textbooks so that basic concepts discussed in classrooms need not be repeated here anymore. It is a waste of time repeating concepts that should have been understood by HR professionals and practitioners.
Best wishes.
Ed Llarena, Jr.
Managing Partner
Emilla Consulting
From Philippines, Parañaque
Again for those who have not visited HRNET, I would like to invite you to visit it and see the discussion threads on the subject matter, especially the latest exhange of ideas between me and Gary Lear on the subject: "Performance Management: This Time Individual".
I would also like to offer two (2) good readings related to the subject matter, namely: Gallup's "The Four Disciplines of Sustainable Growth" and Malcolm Galdwell's "The Talent Myth".
Those who are very new in PA are advised to read some HR textbooks so that basic concepts discussed in classrooms need not be repeated here anymore. It is a waste of time repeating concepts that should have been understood by HR professionals and practitioners.
Best wishes.
Ed Llarena, Jr.
Managing Partner
Emilla Consulting
From Philippines, Parañaque
Hello every one..
Now I am on with my summers…
Today I went for an Informal Interview to discuss about my summer training procedure and the job profile, since I was very curious about 360 degree I started with that, while discussing things with Personal Manager I came to know that company adopted 360 degree only for top level management and even that is voluntary that is if any one whishes to go for 360 degree than only it will done for that person which will be followed by normal Performance appraisal system which the company actually process.
Then I talked about Kaizen; there I got some positive response, she told me that company adopted it last year and the response was tremendous because they started it with the plan of quarterly programme but before the end of the 1st year it get transferred to monthly programme.
I asked her to give me a project related to Performance appraisal or the problem company is facing in PA. In turn she asked me to come up with the problems, which are related to PA .
Now Please help me out with this. I want to know what are the problems company or employee faces during or in PA.
I really want to do something productive and effective which not only help me in learning and applying but to the company as well. so please facilitate me.
PS: I also want to know about the difference between PA and Potential Appraisal.
Regards,
Neha Sharma
From India, Mumbai
Now I am on with my summers…
Today I went for an Informal Interview to discuss about my summer training procedure and the job profile, since I was very curious about 360 degree I started with that, while discussing things with Personal Manager I came to know that company adopted 360 degree only for top level management and even that is voluntary that is if any one whishes to go for 360 degree than only it will done for that person which will be followed by normal Performance appraisal system which the company actually process.
Then I talked about Kaizen; there I got some positive response, she told me that company adopted it last year and the response was tremendous because they started it with the plan of quarterly programme but before the end of the 1st year it get transferred to monthly programme.
I asked her to give me a project related to Performance appraisal or the problem company is facing in PA. In turn she asked me to come up with the problems, which are related to PA .
Now Please help me out with this. I want to know what are the problems company or employee faces during or in PA.
I really want to do something productive and effective which not only help me in learning and applying but to the company as well. so please facilitate me.
PS: I also want to know about the difference between PA and Potential Appraisal.
Regards,
Neha Sharma
From India, Mumbai
Neha
u r right - indeed u have rightly pointed it out that PA has been taken as a promotion based issue. But i would like to caution you if this was your observation from any organization then it means that organization has not clearly defined performance management policy. if a policy is well in place which addresses issues like what will PMS help - whether it is going to develop the employee, job rotaions, promotions, variable pay it would have been good.
Then comes the issue of letting employees know what PMS - PA is all about. so it is important to have a policy in place and then sculpt the practice accordingly. Hope you appreciate this.
All people have been blaming it on HR for not inculcating this within the organization properly. Here i would like to remind every employee that there is a personal factor - the one that is going to uphold the integrity and values of oneself which has to come first - accept our shortcomings and be ready to learn new competencies. Indeed HR comes over here to explain this to employees - but finally employees have to do their bit of understanding things..Right!!!
Rgds,
C.Sriekumaar
Wipro Tech
u r right - indeed u have rightly pointed it out that PA has been taken as a promotion based issue. But i would like to caution you if this was your observation from any organization then it means that organization has not clearly defined performance management policy. if a policy is well in place which addresses issues like what will PMS help - whether it is going to develop the employee, job rotaions, promotions, variable pay it would have been good.
Then comes the issue of letting employees know what PMS - PA is all about. so it is important to have a policy in place and then sculpt the practice accordingly. Hope you appreciate this.
All people have been blaming it on HR for not inculcating this within the organization properly. Here i would like to remind every employee that there is a personal factor - the one that is going to uphold the integrity and values of oneself which has to come first - accept our shortcomings and be ready to learn new competencies. Indeed HR comes over here to explain this to employees - but finally employees have to do their bit of understanding things..Right!!!
Rgds,
C.Sriekumaar
Wipro Tech
Hi Neha
Congratulations!!..
The problems company or employee faces during or in PA.
Neha, let me solve this way :- as we in lateral thinking in reverse way say how should we make PA horrible?..
No Clarity of goals,
Process not to be defined to employees
Appraisee not given a chance to present/express views
Baisedness
Top Management to take this lightly and time pass
No Data of performance to be made available
Rush through the process like form filing up excercise
Not linking to promotions & increments
To be done at leisure
Rating parameters - complicated
To Many rating scales
Not scope for discussion
Empathy or holistic views not allowed
Long descriptive factors spanning to fifty pages
and so...
May i request other members to further add to this list please!!
Potential appraisal - as the term indicates relates to the potential & aligning of future roles with the emerging/expected goals of the firm in future. For instance, if we find QA chemists whose performace is above par and the company invests in them to make them Flavourists based on their experience and sends them to specialised training progs to realize the same. Another company i know closely - the HR head is a Chartered Accountant !! this was a result of his potential/interests & requirement of the company..its a long term plan spanning 5- 10 years...
Am attaching the format of Potential Appraisal for your reference..
Good luck!!
Cheerio
Rajat Joshi
From India, Pune
Congratulations!!..
The problems company or employee faces during or in PA.
Neha, let me solve this way :- as we in lateral thinking in reverse way say how should we make PA horrible?..
No Clarity of goals,
Process not to be defined to employees
Appraisee not given a chance to present/express views
Baisedness
Top Management to take this lightly and time pass
No Data of performance to be made available
Rush through the process like form filing up excercise
Not linking to promotions & increments
To be done at leisure
Rating parameters - complicated
To Many rating scales
Not scope for discussion
Empathy or holistic views not allowed
Long descriptive factors spanning to fifty pages
and so...
May i request other members to further add to this list please!!
Potential appraisal - as the term indicates relates to the potential & aligning of future roles with the emerging/expected goals of the firm in future. For instance, if we find QA chemists whose performace is above par and the company invests in them to make them Flavourists based on their experience and sends them to specialised training progs to realize the same. Another company i know closely - the HR head is a Chartered Accountant !! this was a result of his potential/interests & requirement of the company..its a long term plan spanning 5- 10 years...
Am attaching the format of Potential Appraisal for your reference..
Good luck!!
Cheerio
Rajat Joshi
From India, Pune
That's true! :(
The competent people always look for a better company/better benefits/better pay packages / bigger brand than where they are working. I guess job satisfaction has become the last priority.
We recently lost one sr.developer to wipro just for the brand image. She was being pad as good as she is drawing there. She was also quite happy wiht her job with us but she prefered working for a bigger brand.
I believe every small company also should get into a brand building excercse in competition with the bigger brands.
:cry:
Sabi
From India, Bharat
The competent people always look for a better company/better benefits/better pay packages / bigger brand than where they are working. I guess job satisfaction has become the last priority.
We recently lost one sr.developer to wipro just for the brand image. She was being pad as good as she is drawing there. She was also quite happy wiht her job with us but she prefered working for a bigger brand.
I believe every small company also should get into a brand building excercse in competition with the bigger brands.
:cry:
Sabi
From India, Bharat
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Performance Appraisal Form for Staff.doc