""Politicians should be totally curtailed from involving in the differences or disputes between employee and employer.""
Half the industry is run by netas and how do you intend curtailing involvement directly and indirectly.
""All the enactments should have provisions for the employer to file periodical returns by self assessment requiring no visits by the concerned department to inspect records""
. If necessary the returns and records maintained to be audited by a firm of Advocates/Labour Law Consultants with their attestation which the department has to accept.""
Impractical to say the least or GOI should wind up/lay off half their inspector strength.WE do not have the moral high to be squeaky clean.
"An apprentice by any stretch of imagination cannot be a workman and hence to be taken out of this section.""
What statutory protection are we going to give apprentices??
""Employer should be empowered to terminate workman from the services on defined grounds if the latter has worked less than five years without complying with the provisions of the Act.""
What are the defined grounds?
Who will verify the grounds of termination.After all self certification is being asked everywhere
""Section 17B of ID act should be deleted.
then workers will find employer with greater resources will always apply to higher court for relief.
Probably the employer can be asked to deposit 50% of the disputed amount in Court before appeal.
""Employers right to hire, the right to terminate has to be articulated without recourse to license formalities. ""
Are you talking of free hire and fire culture??
""There should not be any restrictions on number of hours of work to be performed per day, shift changes, overtime and provisions related to permission on these matters have to be removed.""
Workers will become slaves.
""The prevailing practice of ‘Inspector Raj’ should be totally curbed by way of drastic amendments in the Act and Rules.""
NO rule or Act can bring in honesty.Removal of checks by inspectors is like throwing the baby out with the bay.
What The nation requires is diluting some of the more difficult provisions and stricter supervision by higher level officers.
Trade union culture needs to be curbed and allowing outsiders political leaders to take control of Trade unions should be stopped.
Multiple unions need to be discouraged.
There is no quick solution for quick industrialisation.
Strong political will is the first condition for development.
Concern for environment is another important consideration.
Genuine concern for unorganised labour is to be shown in action.
Pampering of organised labour needs total review.
Simplification of taxation structure,excise and other indirect taxes.Ultimately both states and centre should sit together and be on same page(Which is unlikely considering the political environment)
.
From India, Pune
3131Half the industry is run by netas and how do you intend curtailing involvement directly and indirectly.
""All the enactments should have provisions for the employer to file periodical returns by self assessment requiring no visits by the concerned department to inspect records""
. If necessary the returns and records maintained to be audited by a firm of Advocates/Labour Law Consultants with their attestation which the department has to accept.""
Impractical to say the least or GOI should wind up/lay off half their inspector strength.WE do not have the moral high to be squeaky clean.
"An apprentice by any stretch of imagination cannot be a workman and hence to be taken out of this section.""
What statutory protection are we going to give apprentices??
""Employer should be empowered to terminate workman from the services on defined grounds if the latter has worked less than five years without complying with the provisions of the Act.""
What are the defined grounds?
Who will verify the grounds of termination.After all self certification is being asked everywhere
""Section 17B of ID act should be deleted.
then workers will find employer with greater resources will always apply to higher court for relief.
Probably the employer can be asked to deposit 50% of the disputed amount in Court before appeal.
""Employers right to hire, the right to terminate has to be articulated without recourse to license formalities. ""
Are you talking of free hire and fire culture??
""There should not be any restrictions on number of hours of work to be performed per day, shift changes, overtime and provisions related to permission on these matters have to be removed.""
Workers will become slaves.
""The prevailing practice of ‘Inspector Raj’ should be totally curbed by way of drastic amendments in the Act and Rules.""
NO rule or Act can bring in honesty.Removal of checks by inspectors is like throwing the baby out with the bay.
What The nation requires is diluting some of the more difficult provisions and stricter supervision by higher level officers.
Trade union culture needs to be curbed and allowing outsiders political leaders to take control of Trade unions should be stopped.
Multiple unions need to be discouraged.
There is no quick solution for quick industrialisation.
Strong political will is the first condition for development.
Concern for environment is another important consideration.
Genuine concern for unorganised labour is to be shown in action.
Pampering of organised labour needs total review.
Simplification of taxation structure,excise and other indirect taxes.Ultimately both states and centre should sit together and be on same page(Which is unlikely considering the political environment)
.
From India, Pune
Dear Mr. Dinesh Divekar,
Firstly, the article you have seen @ Indian National Bar Association, Voice of Legal Fraternity is written by me. I am also the Chairman of this Association for its Regional Chapter, Bangalore.
Don't you think that the article being mine can be shared by me on other platforms also?
Concept or for that matter question of copy and paste does not arise at all.
Your 'professional differences' expressed are well taken.
You have the freedom to express your views. I, mine.
Best Regards,
Dr Gubbi
Counselor & Advocate
Email:
8105671578
From India, Bangalore
Firstly, the article you have seen @ Indian National Bar Association, Voice of Legal Fraternity is written by me. I am also the Chairman of this Association for its Regional Chapter, Bangalore.
Don't you think that the article being mine can be shared by me on other platforms also?
Concept or for that matter question of copy and paste does not arise at all.
Your 'professional differences' expressed are well taken.
You have the freedom to express your views. I, mine.
Best Regards,
Dr Gubbi
Counselor & Advocate
Email:
8105671578
From India, Bangalore
In social life, what is happening around us, whether we do have even the remotest involvement in it or not, is capable of sensitizing us to speak out our mind one way or the other and as such we have the innate freedom of expression of our thoughts. When our social life is marked by the supremacy of the rule of Law, even the wishful thinking suggestive of drastic amendments to the important provisions of certain existing laws needs to be reminicent of the social mischiefs and inequities originally addressed by passing of such laws as a measure of social justice rather than a knee-jerk reaction dictated by temporary inconveniences. Prior to the advent of Industrial Revolution in the late 18th century, there were only two classes viz., the rich and the poor in all societies. But, its spread across the continents slowly started a new class called the middle class or the salaried class. Of course, the top-paid CEO of an MNC to the blue-collar workman of a local foundry would be well within this class only for they are programmed to work for others only. If they are thrown out of employment for any reason, the survival of their families are at stake. So the primary concern of this working class is nothing more than security of employment. The primary reason for the overwhelming negative response on the article under discussion is that it suggests in essence amendments to various labour laws to facilitate hire and fire based on market-driven economic factors without having any human touch. I am not sure whether write-up was done before the publishing of the proposed Code on Industrial Relations Bill,2015 which envisages many liberal relaxations and new restrictions applicable to both labour and managements. No government can ensure full employment on its own to all its citizens; but it is the duty of every govt to reduce the rate of unemployment through its policy of employment generation. All modern govts are oriented towards welfare state principles. As such it is their duty to ensure social security to all its citizens. When the percentage of social security amount spent out of GDP is as high as 40.05% in Sweden, India is only at 0.44%. So the removal of chapter V-B of the ID Act,1947 will certainly lead to large scale unemployment of the organized labour under the guise of " right sizing " which is nothing but converting the non-bargainable into bargainable for the sake of cost-reduction and creating more disguised and frictional unemployment. In reality, productivity is not about doing the same with less but about doing more with the same. To be frank, in the name of company apprenticeship scheme, thousands of skilled labour are engaged on original works on a spell of three years and then discharged. In such a situation, if apprentices are removed from the definition of workman, they would be deemed to be so during their entire working life. Despite the tightening of the noose by notifications u/s 10 of the CLRA Act,1970 and liberal interpretations in respect of equality of wages and other pecuniary benefits to the contract labour by the higher Judiciary from time to time, still the ratio of contract labour is on the rise. Sec 17-B was introduced by the amending Act of 1982 with a view to curb the tendency of employers to implement the awards of reinstatement on the ground of appeal. In such cases initial relief of injuction is granted to the employer from contravention of s.29. If s17-B is scrapped, how the dismissed employee will face the appeal by the employer? He will become yet another vociferous Trade Unionist. Therefore, such an amendment will be violative of the right to live, I think. The prevailing weekly working hours are:- 40 in USA, 38.6 IN France, 40 in Europe, 44 in China and South Korea against 40 of the ILO Convention no.47 whereas in India it is 48. Then what is the justification for the suggestion for the removal of restrictions on working hours and overtime work? As a person associated with resolution of industrial disputes over a period of 30 years my humble observation is this: Apparantly though restrictive in so for as the employers are concerned, our pre and post independence labour laws are the best pieces of social justice and insufficient compliance and ineffective enforcement are the prime reasons for industrial strife. Hence the replacement of periodic inspections by govt inspectorate is resorted to by the self-audit or social audit suggested would make statutory compliance worst from the prevailing worse condition. Most of the closures are not caused by labour unrest but by mismanagement only. Corporate Social responsibility is not just planting of few trees or owning of cricket teams. It is creation of social assets both material and human. So, the under- current of amendments proposed to every labour law should aim at protecting the interests of all stake holders of the industry including labour. And let me conclude with the following observations of Justice Gajendragadkar : " The theory of ' hire and fire' as well as the theory of ' supply and demand ' which were allowed free scope under the doctrine of laissez faire no longer hold the field... considerations of the financial position of the employer and the state of national economy have their say, and the requirements of the workmen living in a civilized and progressive society also come to be recognised. "
From India, Salem
From India, Salem
Hello,
Sorry for joining in late.
All said and done, I feel we are wasting our time over someone's personal opinion to which he has every right! Let us respect that right and close the matter.
The more we deliberate such issues demonstrating serious disconnect with reality, the more pollution it will cause.
To each his own but the society will go by collective decision and in such matters by a due process of democratic considerations leading to sanctification of the will of the people through a legislation. Let us wait for that. Let us not scuttle ANY opinion. Lets us not be judgmental.
Dr. Gubbi is evidently a learned man. How many of us have taken the trouble to learn with this determination?
Regards
samvedan
June 29, 2015
--------------------
From India, Pune
Sorry for joining in late.
All said and done, I feel we are wasting our time over someone's personal opinion to which he has every right! Let us respect that right and close the matter.
The more we deliberate such issues demonstrating serious disconnect with reality, the more pollution it will cause.
To each his own but the society will go by collective decision and in such matters by a due process of democratic considerations leading to sanctification of the will of the people through a legislation. Let us wait for that. Let us not scuttle ANY opinion. Lets us not be judgmental.
Dr. Gubbi is evidently a learned man. How many of us have taken the trouble to learn with this determination?
Regards
samvedan
June 29, 2015
--------------------
From India, Pune
Dear Mr Samvedan,
As long as one uploads his/her opinions on his/her personal blog or Facebook page, everything is fine. The views remain personal. However, when the same views are copied and pasted on the public forum like Citehr, these are bound to come under scrutiny Members will peek on everything beginning from need for the blog promotion, quality of copy and paste work or the merits of the argument itself. Had the post been from some junior member, it might not have attracted as much attention as the post from the learned member.
Nevertheless, rather than looking at who is saying, it is better to look at what is being said. Gone are the days when people allowed themselves to be swept off their feet by looking at the person or position. Today's media does not even spare persons in the high places like Prime Minister then who we the ordinary mortals are?
When the questions on the post are asked, whether to give reply or dodge the questions is a matter of one's determination. It is this determination or sense of conviction that justifies one's erudition and nothing else.
Regards,
Dinesh Divekar
Hello,
Sorry for joining in late.
All said and done, I feel we are wasting our time over someone's personal opinion to which he has every right! Let us respect that right and close the matter.
The more we deliberate such issues demonstrating serious disconnect with reality, the more pollution it will cause.
To each his own but the society will go by collective decision and in such matters by a due process of democratic considerations leading to sanctification of the will of the people through a legislation. Let us wait for that. Let us not scuttle ANY opinion. Lets us not be judgmental.
Dr. Gubbi is evidently a learned man. How many of us have taken the trouble to learn with this determination?
Regards
samvedan
June 29, 2015
--------------------
From India, Bangalore
As long as one uploads his/her opinions on his/her personal blog or Facebook page, everything is fine. The views remain personal. However, when the same views are copied and pasted on the public forum like Citehr, these are bound to come under scrutiny Members will peek on everything beginning from need for the blog promotion, quality of copy and paste work or the merits of the argument itself. Had the post been from some junior member, it might not have attracted as much attention as the post from the learned member.
Nevertheless, rather than looking at who is saying, it is better to look at what is being said. Gone are the days when people allowed themselves to be swept off their feet by looking at the person or position. Today's media does not even spare persons in the high places like Prime Minister then who we the ordinary mortals are?
When the questions on the post are asked, whether to give reply or dodge the questions is a matter of one's determination. It is this determination or sense of conviction that justifies one's erudition and nothing else.
Regards,
Dinesh Divekar
Hello,
Sorry for joining in late.
All said and done, I feel we are wasting our time over someone's personal opinion to which he has every right! Let us respect that right and close the matter.
The more we deliberate such issues demonstrating serious disconnect with reality, the more pollution it will cause.
To each his own but the society will go by collective decision and in such matters by a due process of democratic considerations leading to sanctification of the will of the people through a legislation. Let us wait for that. Let us not scuttle ANY opinion. Lets us not be judgmental.
Dr. Gubbi is evidently a learned man. How many of us have taken the trouble to learn with this determination?
Regards
samvedan
June 29, 2015
--------------------
From India, Bangalore
Mr Samvedan,
With due respect to your suggestion/view on the posting a learned man, I can only add that views of learned people get debated.
Especially if some of the views are a throwback to earlier centuries.
Even the learned Einstein theory of relativity was questioned and proved wrong to the extent that speed of light can be broken.
So if in science where precision and accuracy is of ultimate importance,then in social sciences and law there is no absolute right or wrong.
No one will want to give unlimited and unquestioned working hours as suggested.
Owners cannot be given unlimited rights.
While I respect the views of learned members,but I will give my views(for what it is worth) to add to discussion value.
From India, Pune
With due respect to your suggestion/view on the posting a learned man, I can only add that views of learned people get debated.
Especially if some of the views are a throwback to earlier centuries.
Even the learned Einstein theory of relativity was questioned and proved wrong to the extent that speed of light can be broken.
So if in science where precision and accuracy is of ultimate importance,then in social sciences and law there is no absolute right or wrong.
No one will want to give unlimited and unquestioned working hours as suggested.
Owners cannot be given unlimited rights.
While I respect the views of learned members,but I will give my views(for what it is worth) to add to discussion value.
From India, Pune
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Latest amendments in Labour Laws.doc