Hi Nivedita,
You have raised not one Query but many let me share my understanding with you & respond to it to best of my ability.
Q1. Should we have our own standing Order?
Ans. Yes, It's manadotory to have one, however, If you don't have one, you could always refer to Model Standing Order, which must be exhibited in the prominent place in your works/factory.
Q2. Should I take help from a consultant?
Ans. Yes, if You don't have the expertise.
Q3. Is 20K a huge outgo for this assignment.
Ans. No, It's pretty reasonable.
Q4. I don't have confidence, since I don't understand law. what should I do to take action?
Ans. It's advisable to take help from an Expert till you learn it yourself.
Q5.Is it easier to take action once, we have our own certfied standing orders.
Ans. No, simply having Rule Book or Standing Orders does not make it any easier, there are governing principles & the process which you need to understand before you decide to intiate an action. You need to be careful because, it may boomrang if you don't handle the disciplinary action professionaly & legally. Therefore, It's advisable to use some sensible head whose has the expertise, it could be some one internal or a consultant.
Therefore, My advice to you is "Think before you Act". Plan the action, understand the implications, have the counter mesaures ready, consult senior managment, involve the team, operations as well others, take help form union, if there is one, before you plung into any action.
Regards,
Sateesh Chandra
From India, Bangalore
1You have raised not one Query but many let me share my understanding with you & respond to it to best of my ability.
Q1. Should we have our own standing Order?
Ans. Yes, It's manadotory to have one, however, If you don't have one, you could always refer to Model Standing Order, which must be exhibited in the prominent place in your works/factory.
Q2. Should I take help from a consultant?
Ans. Yes, if You don't have the expertise.
Q3. Is 20K a huge outgo for this assignment.
Ans. No, It's pretty reasonable.
Q4. I don't have confidence, since I don't understand law. what should I do to take action?
Ans. It's advisable to take help from an Expert till you learn it yourself.
Q5.Is it easier to take action once, we have our own certfied standing orders.
Ans. No, simply having Rule Book or Standing Orders does not make it any easier, there are governing principles & the process which you need to understand before you decide to intiate an action. You need to be careful because, it may boomrang if you don't handle the disciplinary action professionaly & legally. Therefore, It's advisable to use some sensible head whose has the expertise, it could be some one internal or a consultant.
Therefore, My advice to you is "Think before you Act". Plan the action, understand the implications, have the counter mesaures ready, consult senior managment, involve the team, operations as well others, take help form union, if there is one, before you plung into any action.
Regards,
Sateesh Chandra
From India, Bangalore
Thanks
Dheeraj
But in my company permanent empolyee is 40,contracter around 40,everday casual basis 10.
now tell me again these would be consider in menpower.
and one more issue that we have 5 person ,we r treating them casual employee ,we pay them 5000 each without any deduction every month.
before my joining previous hr show there name in muster role.now i dont show in form 12 . could u plz tell me how can we manage these situation so that inspection time there would be no problem?
thanks
nivedita kaushik
G.Noida
From India, Delhi
Dheeraj
But in my company permanent empolyee is 40,contracter around 40,everday casual basis 10.
now tell me again these would be consider in menpower.
and one more issue that we have 5 person ,we r treating them casual employee ,we pay them 5000 each without any deduction every month.
before my joining previous hr show there name in muster role.now i dont show in form 12 . could u plz tell me how can we manage these situation so that inspection time there would be no problem?
thanks
nivedita kaushik
G.Noida
From India, Delhi
hi nivedita how are you
nivedita any person employed directly by principal employer or by any other contractor to be add for calculating the manpower in the factory.
nivedita i want to know about casual worker could u explain what do u mean by casual worker.
DHEERAJ SHUKLA
nivedita any person employed directly by principal employer or by any other contractor to be add for calculating the manpower in the factory.
nivedita i want to know about casual worker could u explain what do u mean by casual worker.
DHEERAJ SHUKLA
HI Dheeraj I m fine here.hope u r doing same.actually we have some employees ,we paid them salary without any pf & esi deduction & some on daily wages. we called them casual worker. Nivedita
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
standing order means the tirms & condition of the employment for governing the employee. its apllicable the whole of india its apllicable every establishment wherein one hundred or more workman are employed on any day of the preeceding twelve months.
hi nivedita,
i am also working as H R officer in a manufacturing unit in Agra. According to law, we are liable to deduct PF and ESI of the casual workers also. If you are not doing this it may cause problems to you later on during any inspection.
Only the persons who are working as apprentice are not liable to contribute to these deductions.
For further information on apprentice, you can contact me on this site.
Ranjeeta
From India, Delhi
i am also working as H R officer in a manufacturing unit in Agra. According to law, we are liable to deduct PF and ESI of the casual workers also. If you are not doing this it may cause problems to you later on during any inspection.
Only the persons who are working as apprentice are not liable to contribute to these deductions.
For further information on apprentice, you can contact me on this site.
Ranjeeta
From India, Delhi
ranjeeta u are fully right bcaz accrding to rules any person should not be employed in industry without pf esi
hi
you have't need to pay for Standing Order. because you can do yourself.
first i want to say i think you have only 70 employees. so why you are submitting standing order.
Thanks
Rahul Kush
9873800634
you have't need to pay for Standing Order. because you can do yourself.
first i want to say i think you have only 70 employees. so why you are submitting standing order.
Thanks
Rahul Kush
9873800634
Dear nivedita,
I have been watching the discussion on the topic. the views came up are from both sides.
I have somthing to share based on my experience.You should certainly go for consultant for drafting the standing orders. this document carries great importance for an organisation specially in times of crisis.once certified, it becomes more difficult to get amended. the provisions mentioned in model S.O. are only for guidance. u can very go beyond that making them more favourable and specific.Any loose drafting with lacuna capable of providing two interpretations will always go in favour of employees.this is a document as u are writing constitution for ur organisation governing terms of employment.
Let me give u one simple example.in one S.O. transfer could be effected with the consent of employee only becauseten years back when S.O. were got certified, there was no other unit of the organisation and could not be visualised about future growth. the point at time was taken very lightly by the management and agreed for consent condition. now in last five years organisation has grown up and put three more units at different locations and transfer need was realised. the issue came up and employees refused to accept transfers.In such condition, legally S.O. will prevail.
The purpose of citing example is that a person sitting in organisation may not be able to visualise the situation of future because it comes from variety of experience a reputed consultant may have.
Dont treat this assignment as a mere ritual . Each word has to be put carefully so that it passes the test of time.
regds
anil kaushik
chief Editor,BUSINESS MANAGER
09829133699
From India, Delhi
I have been watching the discussion on the topic. the views came up are from both sides.
I have somthing to share based on my experience.You should certainly go for consultant for drafting the standing orders. this document carries great importance for an organisation specially in times of crisis.once certified, it becomes more difficult to get amended. the provisions mentioned in model S.O. are only for guidance. u can very go beyond that making them more favourable and specific.Any loose drafting with lacuna capable of providing two interpretations will always go in favour of employees.this is a document as u are writing constitution for ur organisation governing terms of employment.
Let me give u one simple example.in one S.O. transfer could be effected with the consent of employee only becauseten years back when S.O. were got certified, there was no other unit of the organisation and could not be visualised about future growth. the point at time was taken very lightly by the management and agreed for consent condition. now in last five years organisation has grown up and put three more units at different locations and transfer need was realised. the issue came up and employees refused to accept transfers.In such condition, legally S.O. will prevail.
The purpose of citing example is that a person sitting in organisation may not be able to visualise the situation of future because it comes from variety of experience a reputed consultant may have.
Dont treat this assignment as a mere ritual . Each word has to be put carefully so that it passes the test of time.
regds
anil kaushik
chief Editor,BUSINESS MANAGER
09829133699
From India, Delhi
Hi
I agree with Samvedan. You can do it yourself.
But, if you can engage a consultant and learn the process, it is useful.
I have learned the process once through a consultant. Therafter I never approached a consultant for this purpose.
If you have less than 100, follow model standing orders.
If you have more than 100, you stiull can follow Model Standing orders. But law requires you get a Standing Orders certified.
a. It involves some amount of drafting.
b. It involves some ampunt of knowledge of procedures.
c. It involves certain degree of negotiation skill as a notice will be served to the union. If there is no union, then you have to select/elect a body from amongst workmen for this purpose.
If you can negotiate with the Consultant, it is good. But Rs 20000/ for getting Standing Orders certified is not a big money.
Siva
From India, Chennai
I agree with Samvedan. You can do it yourself.
But, if you can engage a consultant and learn the process, it is useful.
I have learned the process once through a consultant. Therafter I never approached a consultant for this purpose.
If you have less than 100, follow model standing orders.
If you have more than 100, you stiull can follow Model Standing orders. But law requires you get a Standing Orders certified.
a. It involves some amount of drafting.
b. It involves some ampunt of knowledge of procedures.
c. It involves certain degree of negotiation skill as a notice will be served to the union. If there is no union, then you have to select/elect a body from amongst workmen for this purpose.
If you can negotiate with the Consultant, it is good. But Rs 20000/ for getting Standing Orders certified is not a big money.
Siva
From India, Chennai
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