Dear Smita,
My second post was somehow getting truncated. Therefore, I have split the post into two parts. The leftover part is as below:
Supreme court has told Central Government not to make Aadhar card mandatory because it breaches privacy of the individual. This is because ours is democratic country and democracy demands respecting privacy of each citizen. Secondly, it was reported that in the newspapers that our current Prime Minister while filling form to contest assembly election in the past had left blank information about his marital status. However, while filling form for Lok Sabha election, he disclosed that he is married. Nevertheless, for keeping the column blank about marital status, Election Commission did not turn down the form of Mr Narendra Modi. Therefore, What flexibility even Election Commission is ready to show why the same flexibility your private limited company is not ready to show?
If your logic is to be applied then should we suspect our Prime Minister's integrity?
Today's HR has far more larger issues to look at. I humbly request to you solve the primary business issues rather than delving or prying into employee's personal affairs. My experience while dealing with HR shows that hundreds of things that HR is supposed to do or can do that they do not it.
In olden days, in all practical purposes business owners behaved as if they were feudal lords. Rigid social order of yesteryears has been crumbling. Workplace of 21st century is different. Today, major focus is on competition and innovation. It appears that you are yet to come to terms with the norms of the modern workplace. Today, even LGBT community has got a social sanction. Just ten years ago, anybody would have frowned at such community.
For Mr Nathrao: - You have written that "I know of cases where people have not changed nomination after marriage and died with money/benefits then going to the mother or father of employee." Such cases are common and in forum also occasionally such posts have come up.
Not changing nomination after marriage could be deliberate or it might have happened inadvertently. Educating employees on importance of change of nomination after the marriage is HR's duty. That is why I have written in my previous post about issuing circular.
Final Comments: - Overall Indians are family oriented. That is why we end up in asking questions about one's personal life. In contrast, in US, interviewer cannot ask anything about marital life or about family to the job candidate. There is a list of prohibited question for the interviewers. In India, such demarcating lines are not drawn. Second thing is about openness too. We disclose too many things about family voluntarily. Therefore, those who refuse to be part of this culture of disclosure become different kettle of fish" as said by Mr Nathrao.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
7883My second post was somehow getting truncated. Therefore, I have split the post into two parts. The leftover part is as below:
Supreme court has told Central Government not to make Aadhar card mandatory because it breaches privacy of the individual. This is because ours is democratic country and democracy demands respecting privacy of each citizen. Secondly, it was reported that in the newspapers that our current Prime Minister while filling form to contest assembly election in the past had left blank information about his marital status. However, while filling form for Lok Sabha election, he disclosed that he is married. Nevertheless, for keeping the column blank about marital status, Election Commission did not turn down the form of Mr Narendra Modi. Therefore, What flexibility even Election Commission is ready to show why the same flexibility your private limited company is not ready to show?
If your logic is to be applied then should we suspect our Prime Minister's integrity?
Today's HR has far more larger issues to look at. I humbly request to you solve the primary business issues rather than delving or prying into employee's personal affairs. My experience while dealing with HR shows that hundreds of things that HR is supposed to do or can do that they do not it.
In olden days, in all practical purposes business owners behaved as if they were feudal lords. Rigid social order of yesteryears has been crumbling. Workplace of 21st century is different. Today, major focus is on competition and innovation. It appears that you are yet to come to terms with the norms of the modern workplace. Today, even LGBT community has got a social sanction. Just ten years ago, anybody would have frowned at such community.
For Mr Nathrao: - You have written that "I know of cases where people have not changed nomination after marriage and died with money/benefits then going to the mother or father of employee." Such cases are common and in forum also occasionally such posts have come up.
Not changing nomination after marriage could be deliberate or it might have happened inadvertently. Educating employees on importance of change of nomination after the marriage is HR's duty. That is why I have written in my previous post about issuing circular.
Final Comments: - Overall Indians are family oriented. That is why we end up in asking questions about one's personal life. In contrast, in US, interviewer cannot ask anything about marital life or about family to the job candidate. There is a list of prohibited question for the interviewers. In India, such demarcating lines are not drawn. Second thing is about openness too. We disclose too many things about family voluntarily. Therefore, those who refuse to be part of this culture of disclosure become different kettle of fish" as said by Mr Nathrao.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Members,
Vineeta: This is a real issue that has surfaced.
Dinesh Divekar: ""This information pertains to employee's personal life therefore it is secondary information. How can you link disclosure of secondary information to the "integrity" of the employee?""
You are absolutely right that this is secondary information.
Therefore , It really should not matter whatever details the individual wants to give falling in that section
Employees are not comfortabe sharing their personal information , primarily for personal security concerns and we respect them for that.
Unfortunately , some employees are misusing the same . Innocent partners are being trapped for matrimony.This trait itself is disturbing enough for their integrity to be questioned.
Yes, there are courts and laws for it .
I totally agree and understand as to 'why should the work place and the personal life ' be linked.
As we live in a society --Where a whole lot of things are inter-linked.Like Job, residence,city , etc.
Now , My basic question boils down to :
1. An individual is actually taking advantage of this and getting married by disclosing wrong information to unsuspecting individuals.
(Mr Dinesh-I totally understand and agree that job and marriage have nothing to do with each other --but unfortunately this is the only data available to a person .)
Therefore , should we as an organisation do our bit towards society-and ask for correct updates , so that such incidents can be minimised.
I am thankful for all the thoughts shared by the members.
Regards
Smita
From India, Pune
Vineeta: This is a real issue that has surfaced.
Dinesh Divekar: ""This information pertains to employee's personal life therefore it is secondary information. How can you link disclosure of secondary information to the "integrity" of the employee?""
You are absolutely right that this is secondary information.
Therefore , It really should not matter whatever details the individual wants to give falling in that section
Employees are not comfortabe sharing their personal information , primarily for personal security concerns and we respect them for that.
Unfortunately , some employees are misusing the same . Innocent partners are being trapped for matrimony.This trait itself is disturbing enough for their integrity to be questioned.
Yes, there are courts and laws for it .
I totally agree and understand as to 'why should the work place and the personal life ' be linked.
As we live in a society --Where a whole lot of things are inter-linked.Like Job, residence,city , etc.
Now , My basic question boils down to :
1. An individual is actually taking advantage of this and getting married by disclosing wrong information to unsuspecting individuals.
(Mr Dinesh-I totally understand and agree that job and marriage have nothing to do with each other --but unfortunately this is the only data available to a person .)
Therefore , should we as an organisation do our bit towards society-and ask for correct updates , so that such incidents can be minimised.
I am thankful for all the thoughts shared by the members.
Regards
Smita
From India, Pune
I agree with Dinesh Sir, sometime we bother unnessarily,this is purely personal, yet once we know the secret information of someone it creates some sorts of curiosity, but of no use.As a human being we do have many secrets in our life, but do not disclose, and need not to be disclosed, personal and professional lives are two different aspects.
From India, Gurgaon
From India, Gurgaon
I think revealing marital status cannot be considered as not disclosing any secrets infringing personal life. Before we suggest anything it's to be clarified whether the candidate either suppressed the facts when asked for/fill in the documents or no such things were asked for. If he was not asked to mention in application or any declaration then it need not be faulted. Whereas if had mentioned "single" against the marital col. it's clearly suppression of facts. (I remember one top most politician was questioned more or less on the similar question and his suppressed wife was denied visa recently).
But I consider it is one of the primary duties of any HR to have such information on the personal files of all their employees for obvious reasons. I have no clue as to how their HR managed the "nomination" in PF etc. is't that there also he mentioned as single and nominated others ?? I strongly feel obtaining such information (without making it others know) is a better admin. practices.
From India, Bangalore
But I consider it is one of the primary duties of any HR to have such information on the personal files of all their employees for obvious reasons. I have no clue as to how their HR managed the "nomination" in PF etc. is't that there also he mentioned as single and nominated others ?? I strongly feel obtaining such information (without making it others know) is a better admin. practices.
From India, Bangalore
"""I think revealing marital status cannot be considered as not disclosing any secrets infringing personal life. ""
Absolutely right.
A company needs to know who is NOK.
God forbid there is an accident-whom to inform,whom to pay compensation.
We cannot compare our culture with US culture.
Do we have western standards of quality work??
Personal information forms get filled up in all organisations.
Hiding marital status in the name of privacy is carrying things too far.
Even if marital status can be assumed to be secondary information-hiding or lying about it is definitely gives indication that employee never reveals full information about himself..
From India, Pune
Absolutely right.
A company needs to know who is NOK.
God forbid there is an accident-whom to inform,whom to pay compensation.
We cannot compare our culture with US culture.
Do we have western standards of quality work??
Personal information forms get filled up in all organisations.
Hiding marital status in the name of privacy is carrying things too far.
Even if marital status can be assumed to be secondary information-hiding or lying about it is definitely gives indication that employee never reveals full information about himself..
From India, Pune
The information you are seeking is the status. But your system has only single/married/divorced. This in itself is incomplete. You must also have separated/ in a relationship also. He could take a stand that since the system does not provide for separated status, he opted for single status . First you need to upgrade your system to current realities, before you think of taking punitive measures. In developed countries, the company is not allowed to ask anything concerning age, race, sex, sexual preference, marital status or any other personal issues. Look forward and develop your systems accordingly.
From Indonesia, Jakarta
From Indonesia, Jakarta
Interesting discussion. If a person gives inaccurate information on marital status, it may be wrong morally.
However, even in Government service no action could be taken if wrong information furnished in the nomination forms. Moreover, from the legal point of view, a nominee is only a trustee who receives the benefits, in the exceptional circumstance of the death of the employee, on behalf of legal heirs. However, much complication could result if the employee furnishes an incorrect information in the eventuality of his untimely demise.
From India, Kochi
However, even in Government service no action could be taken if wrong information furnished in the nomination forms. Moreover, from the legal point of view, a nominee is only a trustee who receives the benefits, in the exceptional circumstance of the death of the employee, on behalf of legal heirs. However, much complication could result if the employee furnishes an incorrect information in the eventuality of his untimely demise.
From India, Kochi
""However, even in Government service no action could be taken if wrong information furnished in the nomination forms.""
When nomination forms are filled in by employee,the admin department checks them.
Information not tallying with admin records is always supposed to be questioned and not accepted blindly.
""However, much complication could result if the employee furnishes an incorrect information in the eventuality of his untimely demise.""
Certainly.I know of cases where two "wives" have landed up.
Resulting in court cases to prove who is the legal hier and in process,bulk Non effective/death benefits get held up and lawyers earn their fees by taking up cases.
All this because someone did not fill in forms properly,married twice without proper divorce and hid information from employer.
From India, Pune
When nomination forms are filled in by employee,the admin department checks them.
Information not tallying with admin records is always supposed to be questioned and not accepted blindly.
""However, much complication could result if the employee furnishes an incorrect information in the eventuality of his untimely demise.""
Certainly.I know of cases where two "wives" have landed up.
Resulting in court cases to prove who is the legal hier and in process,bulk Non effective/death benefits get held up and lawyers earn their fees by taking up cases.
All this because someone did not fill in forms properly,married twice without proper divorce and hid information from employer.
From India, Pune
Most of the Govt.offices and PSUs have a system of collecting & keeping one's personal data in a format duly attested by any one of First class govt.officials at the time of employee joining itself. And instructed to keep these inf. updated every now and then wherever changes are occurred. In some PSUs it's known as 'Attestation Form' like wise others. The form is so designed to obtain almost all related inf. right from the names of father, mother, siblings and covers any criminal/civil cases, property held incl. family members and so on. It's advisable to introduce this kind of formats and make them fill all the particulars leaving nothing blank. Filling up untrue inf. and leaving blanks are treated seriously, may even result in indiscipline attracting penalties.
Every year property return updating also strictly followed before qualifying for annual increment.
From India, Bangalore
Every year property return updating also strictly followed before qualifying for annual increment.
From India, Bangalore
Dear Members,
Thanks a lot for your views.
The discussion has brought forth some very interesting points.
1.Legally no action can be taken as there are a whole lot of loop holes.
2.Incorrect information provided when directly asked about a question -Should be taken seriously.(A soft warning given and individual asked to update the areas correctly).
3.As a matter of routine once a year employees are requested to check and update their personal details.
4.When such information is deliberately suppressed -the company should take some action for this breach .
5.Will be thankful if you can suggest some more ways to curb this problem"deliberate suppression of facts''
Regards
Smita
From India, Pune
Thanks a lot for your views.
The discussion has brought forth some very interesting points.
1.Legally no action can be taken as there are a whole lot of loop holes.
2.Incorrect information provided when directly asked about a question -Should be taken seriously.(A soft warning given and individual asked to update the areas correctly).
3.As a matter of routine once a year employees are requested to check and update their personal details.
4.When such information is deliberately suppressed -the company should take some action for this breach .
5.Will be thankful if you can suggest some more ways to curb this problem"deliberate suppression of facts''
Regards
Smita
From India, Pune
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