Hello Respected Members,
I am going through a lot of confusion in trying to get the EPF withdrwal claim of my father settled.
Let me state our case in detail.
My father untimely and suddenly expired in April 2009. At that time, he was employed with a company which he had joined about 8 months prior to his demise. Before that he was working with a company at Hyderabad and he had submitted PF transfer papers from Hyderabad EPFO to the present Gurgaon EPFO PF account. But even before the PF got transferred he passed away.
We waited for the PF transfer from Hyderabad EPFO to Gurgaon to get completed, before we withdrwaing his total EPF from Gurgaon EPFO. The transfer process took around 3 years (after repeated follow-up), and the transfer happened around May2012. Following this we submitted PF withdrawal papers to Gurgaon EPFO, in the name of my mother (who was the nominated by my father as the nominee through Form-2 declaration). Wes submitted an employer attested copy of Form-2 as well along with the withdrawal papers.
However, now Gurgaon PF office came back saying that as per them, the Form-2 was never received by Gurgaon EPFO, from the employer, until the same was received along with withdrawal papers. So, they cannot treat this nomination form as valid, and will ignore this nomination and will equally distribute the PF amount between the legal heirs. My question is who are the lagal heirs in our case?
Our survivor family consists of my mother, and her two daughters (including myself).
Family Details as on April 2009 (at the time of my father's death):
Wife: 50yrs
First daughter: >25yrs , unmarried
Second daughter: >25yrs, unmarried
Family Details as on May 2012 (when submitting the PF withdrawal claim):
Wife: 53yrs
First daughter: >25yrs , Married
Second daughter: >25yrs, Unmarried
The PF department is now saying that the PF withdrawal amount will get divided equally between Mother, Daughter1 and Daughter2 (as both daughters even though were greater than 25years of age, but being unmarried AT THE TIME of DEATH will be eligible for the PF amount, including EDLI claim).
However, another department in the PF office is contesting this. As per the other department, the definition of legal heir is considered per the family status AS ON DATE OF THE CLAIM and NOT as on the date on death. So, as per today's family status, only Mother and one daughter are are valid claimants.
Can experts please guide on what is correct? They have complicated our PF claim amidst all this confusion (one department saying something and the other within the same PF office saying some thing else). Everytime they call us up requiring a new PF withdrawal form with a new name. Initially we had submitted the forms with only my mother as claimant. Then they asked my sister's form and now they are asking my form as well. We just want this to get settled, and have really no problem wether the whole money comes to our mother or gets divided between the three of us, as internally we intend to anyway transfer everything to our mother.
Please advise, how should I tackle this? Is there any document which states, if legal heirs are identified based on the current date fmaily status or family status on the day of death
Please please someone help us.
Thanks,
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
I am going through a lot of confusion in trying to get the EPF withdrwal claim of my father settled.
Let me state our case in detail.
My father untimely and suddenly expired in April 2009. At that time, he was employed with a company which he had joined about 8 months prior to his demise. Before that he was working with a company at Hyderabad and he had submitted PF transfer papers from Hyderabad EPFO to the present Gurgaon EPFO PF account. But even before the PF got transferred he passed away.
We waited for the PF transfer from Hyderabad EPFO to Gurgaon to get completed, before we withdrwaing his total EPF from Gurgaon EPFO. The transfer process took around 3 years (after repeated follow-up), and the transfer happened around May2012. Following this we submitted PF withdrawal papers to Gurgaon EPFO, in the name of my mother (who was the nominated by my father as the nominee through Form-2 declaration). Wes submitted an employer attested copy of Form-2 as well along with the withdrawal papers.
However, now Gurgaon PF office came back saying that as per them, the Form-2 was never received by Gurgaon EPFO, from the employer, until the same was received along with withdrawal papers. So, they cannot treat this nomination form as valid, and will ignore this nomination and will equally distribute the PF amount between the legal heirs. My question is who are the lagal heirs in our case?
Our survivor family consists of my mother, and her two daughters (including myself).
Family Details as on April 2009 (at the time of my father's death):
Wife: 50yrs
First daughter: >25yrs , unmarried
Second daughter: >25yrs, unmarried
Family Details as on May 2012 (when submitting the PF withdrawal claim):
Wife: 53yrs
First daughter: >25yrs , Married
Second daughter: >25yrs, Unmarried
The PF department is now saying that the PF withdrawal amount will get divided equally between Mother, Daughter1 and Daughter2 (as both daughters even though were greater than 25years of age, but being unmarried AT THE TIME of DEATH will be eligible for the PF amount, including EDLI claim).
However, another department in the PF office is contesting this. As per the other department, the definition of legal heir is considered per the family status AS ON DATE OF THE CLAIM and NOT as on the date on death. So, as per today's family status, only Mother and one daughter are are valid claimants.
Can experts please guide on what is correct? They have complicated our PF claim amidst all this confusion (one department saying something and the other within the same PF office saying some thing else). Everytime they call us up requiring a new PF withdrawal form with a new name. Initially we had submitted the forms with only my mother as claimant. Then they asked my sister's form and now they are asking my form as well. We just want this to get settled, and have really no problem wether the whole money comes to our mother or gets divided between the three of us, as internally we intend to anyway transfer everything to our mother.
Please advise, how should I tackle this? Is there any document which states, if legal heirs are identified based on the current date fmaily status or family status on the day of death
Please please someone help us.
Thanks,
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
Dear Ritu, You will go and meet PRO (Public Relation Officer) of PF office & discuss the same they will given proper guide lines.
From India, Chakan
3From India, Chakan
Hi Ritu,
I read your case... I dont know about the documents as you have asked but you can tackle this situation. just do one thing whatever the forms Pf department required, fill it up and submit from your end.( So if you need to go in labor court it will be a strong proof for you)
As its a centralizes procedure we can not challenge them that why they are doing this. Might be some internal procedure they are having. Do as per their guidance and just focus that your fathers money is with them and you want that amount as early as possible..
After providing everything if you will not be getting result then you can go to labor court..
From India, Mumbai
I read your case... I dont know about the documents as you have asked but you can tackle this situation. just do one thing whatever the forms Pf department required, fill it up and submit from your end.( So if you need to go in labor court it will be a strong proof for you)
As its a centralizes procedure we can not challenge them that why they are doing this. Might be some internal procedure they are having. Do as per their guidance and just focus that your fathers money is with them and you want that amount as early as possible..
After providing everything if you will not be getting result then you can go to labor court..
From India, Mumbai
Thanks you for your responses.
I have been visiting the PF office almost every week. I have also met the PRO and APFC. One tells me something, the other tells something else. The PRO said you need to submit the claim form for the married daughter (as she was unmarried at the time of father's death) as well. The accounts departments is saying, not to submit the claim for the married daughter, as she is married today and the withdrawal claim is filed on this date, so current status is valid. They said, incase you submit the claim of the married daughter, you will get into trouble for filing an invalid claim and the PF settlement will get into a dispute. Whereas the PRO is saying that the claim will be processed only when the withdrawal papers of married daughter is also submitted.
I am caught in between this tussle, not knowing what is the right thing to do. Submit the claim or not. We just want to get this done soon.
Thanks,
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
I have been visiting the PF office almost every week. I have also met the PRO and APFC. One tells me something, the other tells something else. The PRO said you need to submit the claim form for the married daughter (as she was unmarried at the time of father's death) as well. The accounts departments is saying, not to submit the claim for the married daughter, as she is married today and the withdrawal claim is filed on this date, so current status is valid. They said, incase you submit the claim of the married daughter, you will get into trouble for filing an invalid claim and the PF settlement will get into a dispute. Whereas the PRO is saying that the claim will be processed only when the withdrawal papers of married daughter is also submitted.
I am caught in between this tussle, not knowing what is the right thing to do. Submit the claim or not. We just want to get this done soon.
Thanks,
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
Dear Ritu,
आप सबसे पहेले एक afidevit बनवाईये जिसमें पूरा actual details हो . after that आप PF के लिए apply करो. becoz as per rule जो dependent होगा उसको ही वो amount मिलेगा जेसे आपकी एक sister का marriage हो गया है थें वो dependent नहीं है अब . so आप पूरा clam आपके Mom क नाम पे लेने की कोशिश करिए & you can consultant to legal advisor too they can give you the right path. so resolve this problem.
From India, New Delhi
आप सबसे पहेले एक afidevit बनवाईये जिसमें पूरा actual details हो . after that आप PF के लिए apply करो. becoz as per rule जो dependent होगा उसको ही वो amount मिलेगा जेसे आपकी एक sister का marriage हो गया है थें वो dependent नहीं है अब . so आप पूरा clam आपके Mom क नाम पे लेने की कोशिश करिए & you can consultant to legal advisor too they can give you the right path. so resolve this problem.
From India, New Delhi
Dear Ritu,
No need to be trouble, I have read your case well. I want to tell you that if you are submitting your claim form at present then you have no need to submit the claim form for your married sister. Because as on date she is not dependent upon your mother, even no need to mention her name in PF Claim Forms also.
Submit claim form i.e. Form 20, Form 10D, Form 5IF for your mother and you also and acknowledged from the RPFC, Gurgaon, keep the copy carefully for your reference. Within one month if your claim is not settled by the RPFC Gurgaon then sent that acknowledgement scan copy to
.
Further, your clarification about your married sister please see the attached RPFC Rules for accumulations of a deceased member.
Hope your doubt should be clear now.
Sunil Sharma
Senior Executive HR
Email:
From India, New Delhi
No need to be trouble, I have read your case well. I want to tell you that if you are submitting your claim form at present then you have no need to submit the claim form for your married sister. Because as on date she is not dependent upon your mother, even no need to mention her name in PF Claim Forms also.
Submit claim form i.e. Form 20, Form 10D, Form 5IF for your mother and you also and acknowledged from the RPFC, Gurgaon, keep the copy carefully for your reference. Within one month if your claim is not settled by the RPFC Gurgaon then sent that acknowledgement scan copy to
Further, your clarification about your married sister please see the attached RPFC Rules for accumulations of a deceased member.
Hope your doubt should be clear now.
Sunil Sharma
Senior Executive HR
Email:
From India, New Delhi
Thank you for the response Mr. Sharma.
This is exactly what I was told by the PRO as well. He said that married daughters are not entitled to the claim, but the question is what date is to be considered for considering the correct marital status for this purpose. The marital status AS ON DATE OF WITHDRAWAL FORM SUBMISSION or the marital status AS ON THE DAY ON THE DEATH OF THE PF MEMBER.
Since my sister was UNMARRIED ON THE DATE OF DEATH OF OUR FATHER, but is MARRIED NOW WHEN WE HAVE SUBMITTED THE PF WITHDRAWAL CLAIM, will the claim be decided, based on the marital status on this day or on the day of demise of the PF member?
Looking forward to your reply.
Thanks in anticipation.
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
This is exactly what I was told by the PRO as well. He said that married daughters are not entitled to the claim, but the question is what date is to be considered for considering the correct marital status for this purpose. The marital status AS ON DATE OF WITHDRAWAL FORM SUBMISSION or the marital status AS ON THE DAY ON THE DEATH OF THE PF MEMBER.
Since my sister was UNMARRIED ON THE DATE OF DEATH OF OUR FATHER, but is MARRIED NOW WHEN WE HAVE SUBMITTED THE PF WITHDRAWAL CLAIM, will the claim be decided, based on the marital status on this day or on the day of demise of the PF member?
Looking forward to your reply.
Thanks in anticipation.
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
One departement in Gurgaon PRO is hell bent upon submitting my married sister's claim form, as he says that the marital status is considered as that on the day of death and not on the present marital status. They are saying that the papaers will NOT be processed and will get rejected on the basis of incomplete claim, if the withdrawal papers of my married sister are not submitted. But the other departmenet is saying that if the claim papaers of my married sister is submitted then the claim will get rejected due to false claim and will get into a dispute.
Within the same PF office itself, no one is clear and different people are telling different things. And we in the middle of this do not know which way to go.
Thanks,
Ritika
From India, Bangalore
Within the same PF office itself, no one is clear and different people are telling different things. And we in the middle of this do not know which way to go.
Thanks,
Ritika
From India, Bangalore
Yes. Initially we were told that since both the daughters were >25yrs of age on date of death, so only withdrawal form-20 and Form-5IF and Form10D needs to be submitted in my mother's name. So, we submitted the completed set of papers on 19thJune2012. I also received a SMS confirming the same.
Then on 25th June2012 I received call from the PF office stating that even though they had processed our claim, but the papers came back from the approving authority as that person said that the unmarried daughter is also entitiled to receive the claim. Hence they asked that Form-20 and Form-5IF in my name will also be required, as even though I am >25yrs of age, but being unmarried, the PF amount will be spilt equally between me and my mother.
So, I filled both the Forms and went to submit it yesterday at the PF office. The person handling our claim, took my papers and went to a senior of his to get the completeness of the papers verified. But this time, that official said that since my sister was unmarried at the time of death of my father, her claim forms (20 and 5if) are also required, else the papers will not be processed, or if they are processed, 1/3rd part of the total will be retained by the PF office as that can only be claimed by my sister.
So, the PF office already has my mother's and my completed forms. I don;t know if I should submit my sister's forms too.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
Then on 25th June2012 I received call from the PF office stating that even though they had processed our claim, but the papers came back from the approving authority as that person said that the unmarried daughter is also entitiled to receive the claim. Hence they asked that Form-20 and Form-5IF in my name will also be required, as even though I am >25yrs of age, but being unmarried, the PF amount will be spilt equally between me and my mother.
So, I filled both the Forms and went to submit it yesterday at the PF office. The person handling our claim, took my papers and went to a senior of his to get the completeness of the papers verified. But this time, that official said that since my sister was unmarried at the time of death of my father, her claim forms (20 and 5if) are also required, else the papers will not be processed, or if they are processed, 1/3rd part of the total will be retained by the PF office as that can only be claimed by my sister.
So, the PF office already has my mother's and my completed forms. I don;t know if I should submit my sister's forms too.
Please advise.
Thanks,
Ritu
From India, Bangalore
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