Hi All,
I work in an IT company registered in india, located in Chennai. I am here for 2 years. I have a question regarding PF deduction. In my company I bare both the employee and employers contribution of PF plus some administrartion charges everymonth if at all I opt for PF. I hear the same is being followed by many small or mid level companies.
I enquired the same with people I know who work in small companies and they say that the PF policies are changed now, company can avoid contributing towards PF and the same can be deducted from the employees salary, reason being its included in the CTC.
Is it legal that the oraganization does not contribute its part and deduct both from the employee's salary? Is the same practice is followed by all or many companies.
I was with different company till 2010, till that time i did not face any issues with PF, cos X amount was deducted from my salary and the same amount was contributed by the company. After which i joined this company. I am not on contract role, i am a permanent employee.
Even my payslip shows two PF deductions as employee contribution and employers contribution plus admin charges(the employer's contribution is more than that of employee's contribution, when asked the HR told me that its for administration charges). Which comes more than I could claim on tax benefits. I am actually not benefitting on PF concept also tax benefits.
Could you please give me some inputs whether this practice is legal and are being fair to the employees.
Regards,
Dolly
2I work in an IT company registered in india, located in Chennai. I am here for 2 years. I have a question regarding PF deduction. In my company I bare both the employee and employers contribution of PF plus some administrartion charges everymonth if at all I opt for PF. I hear the same is being followed by many small or mid level companies.
I enquired the same with people I know who work in small companies and they say that the PF policies are changed now, company can avoid contributing towards PF and the same can be deducted from the employees salary, reason being its included in the CTC.
Is it legal that the oraganization does not contribute its part and deduct both from the employee's salary? Is the same practice is followed by all or many companies.
I was with different company till 2010, till that time i did not face any issues with PF, cos X amount was deducted from my salary and the same amount was contributed by the company. After which i joined this company. I am not on contract role, i am a permanent employee.
Even my payslip shows two PF deductions as employee contribution and employers contribution plus admin charges(the employer's contribution is more than that of employee's contribution, when asked the HR told me that its for administration charges). Which comes more than I could claim on tax benefits. I am actually not benefitting on PF concept also tax benefits.
Could you please give me some inputs whether this practice is legal and are being fair to the employees.
Regards,
Dolly
Dear Ms. Dolly,
As per the Satute Laws, Employer has to contribute it's part from the employer only and not from the employee. We have discussed the same a couple of days back. Please click on the following link to understand the matter at its best.
CiteHR Attribution: https://www.citehr.com/455791-force-...ml#post2041731
From India, Visakhapatnam
As per the Satute Laws, Employer has to contribute it's part from the employer only and not from the employee. We have discussed the same a couple of days back. Please click on the following link to understand the matter at its best.
CiteHR Attribution: https://www.citehr.com/455791-force-...ml#post2041731
From India, Visakhapatnam
Thank you Sharmila,
I have a question, in your reply you have mentioned that if the basic is more than RS.6500 Then the employee must pay PF. But in my company the employee can opt either to go for PF or not even the basic is higher than Rs.6500.
One of my collegues opted for no PF and she has opened PPF in a bank for the same amount and her basic is around Rs.17000.
If its illegal not contributing towards PF, how the company still runs. I mean these are very basic employee benefits and can the company deviate from basic benefits and still be in business? Is not there some kind of audit runs by government every year on companies to check they follow the basic things?
What bothers me is that not only my company there are many company in India follows the same policy on PF. And the public started to talk like its also legal for companies not contributing towards PF. Cos I had many arguments with my own company staff when I asked them to join me to go talk to the management about it. Cant be something done on this issue nation wide?
Even my other friends in other companies have the same issue and they say that its all legal now. How this situation came and how the companies are doing such illegal things very boldly(by mentioning both the deductions on the pay-slip).
Once again thank you so much for your reply, i dint post it to hurt anyone, just to clarify things which are bothering for many months.
Regards,
Dolly
I have a question, in your reply you have mentioned that if the basic is more than RS.6500 Then the employee must pay PF. But in my company the employee can opt either to go for PF or not even the basic is higher than Rs.6500.
One of my collegues opted for no PF and she has opened PPF in a bank for the same amount and her basic is around Rs.17000.
If its illegal not contributing towards PF, how the company still runs. I mean these are very basic employee benefits and can the company deviate from basic benefits and still be in business? Is not there some kind of audit runs by government every year on companies to check they follow the basic things?
What bothers me is that not only my company there are many company in India follows the same policy on PF. And the public started to talk like its also legal for companies not contributing towards PF. Cos I had many arguments with my own company staff when I asked them to join me to go talk to the management about it. Cant be something done on this issue nation wide?
Even my other friends in other companies have the same issue and they say that its all legal now. How this situation came and how the companies are doing such illegal things very boldly(by mentioning both the deductions on the pay-slip).
Once again thank you so much for your reply, i dint post it to hurt anyone, just to clarify things which are bothering for many months.
Regards,
Dolly
Ans - You haven't read the point clearly have you? Let me reframe once again, If the employee has not withdrawn his PF from the previous employer and his salary is </= 6500/- there, he would still remain a member of PF.
Ans - If the employee has no previous EPF account or has joined services, he/she is still exempted.
Ans - If the company has 20 or more than 20 employees the employer is subjected to contribute towards PF.
Are you sure that th employer is filing for Monthly/ Annual returns?
- PF monthly Return - for employees tomonthly remmitance of contribution.
- PF Annual Returns - for the Accounting year starts from March to Febraury of your employees. The employer may get the contributory slips given at the time of on or before the end of May, for the employees to know their balance in their respected amounts.
Please check with the HR department, if they're filing such returns & all the mentioned contribution sent to the EPFO. (For your information); A copy of those returns are filed for audit purposes.
Ans - The real predicament starts when the employee faces a difficulty at a level contributing towards the PF. You and your company staff (if felt) should ingress towards your area Labour Comissioner and bestow a complaint for been inflated by employer-employee conribution borne by the employee.
Ans - As per the above mentioned procedure, you may consult a conciliation officer to get your answer at its best from the employer.
Ans - Here there is nothing to hurt or feel good about any one. This forum gives its best people to help each other serve their obligations. Members in this group discuss and remember they dont get hurt.
Cheers..................!
From India, Visakhapatnam
Ans - If the employee has no previous EPF account or has joined services, he/she is still exempted.
Ans - If the company has 20 or more than 20 employees the employer is subjected to contribute towards PF.
Are you sure that th employer is filing for Monthly/ Annual returns?
- PF monthly Return - for employees tomonthly remmitance of contribution.
- PF Annual Returns - for the Accounting year starts from March to Febraury of your employees. The employer may get the contributory slips given at the time of on or before the end of May, for the employees to know their balance in their respected amounts.
Please check with the HR department, if they're filing such returns & all the mentioned contribution sent to the EPFO. (For your information); A copy of those returns are filed for audit purposes.
Ans - The real predicament starts when the employee faces a difficulty at a level contributing towards the PF. You and your company staff (if felt) should ingress towards your area Labour Comissioner and bestow a complaint for been inflated by employer-employee conribution borne by the employee.
Ans - As per the above mentioned procedure, you may consult a conciliation officer to get your answer at its best from the employer.
Ans - Here there is nothing to hurt or feel good about any one. This forum gives its best people to help each other serve their obligations. Members in this group discuss and remember they dont get hurt.
Cheers..................!
From India, Visakhapatnam
Thanks once again Sharmila.
As far as I have enquired, from the entry level employees who does not have previous PF account and the most experienced employee who worked previously, had PF and joined here, all have to go through the same PF structure in my company that is either they can opt for it or can avoid paying PF.
My company's strength is 500+ and they should be filing returns cos they do deduct the money from our account and may show it on audits that they do contribute towards PF with the money they deduct from us, but i dont know how exactly they do it. I did check with my HR many times, but they are not transparent in any information like about annual returns and many other things.
I posted my query to know how exactly the PF works and any changes made recently on PF policy. Your post have answered all doubts I had.
Thank you so much once again Sharmila.
Regards,
Dolly
As far as I have enquired, from the entry level employees who does not have previous PF account and the most experienced employee who worked previously, had PF and joined here, all have to go through the same PF structure in my company that is either they can opt for it or can avoid paying PF.
My company's strength is 500+ and they should be filing returns cos they do deduct the money from our account and may show it on audits that they do contribute towards PF with the money they deduct from us, but i dont know how exactly they do it. I did check with my HR many times, but they are not transparent in any information like about annual returns and many other things.
I posted my query to know how exactly the PF works and any changes made recently on PF policy. Your post have answered all doubts I had.
Thank you so much once again Sharmila.
Regards,
Dolly
Hi Dolly,
When it comes to EPF or Employee PF, we two side contributions -
1. Employee's Side: This is deducted from your salary i.e from your monthly gross. The minimum contribution as per PF Act is 12% and you can voluntarily scale it up to a maximum of 20%.
2. Employer's Side: This is not deducted from your salary. This is included in your CTC to show the transaction. (I shall explain how should it be refelcted). As per the PF Act, the employer is supposed to contribute a 12% of your Basic + DA to your PF&Pension Account. Out of this 12%, 8.33% goes to Pension Account and only 3.67% goes to the PF Account.
In addition to the 12% contribution made by the Employer, he is also liable to pay -
Administrative Charges - Handling for PF/Pension account
Employee Insurance Charge
Employee Insurance Handling Charge
However if the company provides some better insurance scheme, they can opt out of insurance scheme in PF act.
Now to see how the PFs should be reflected in your CTC-
Basic
DA
HRA
Conveyance
Medical Allowance
Other Allowances (if any)
=========================
GROSS
==========================
Gratuity (Calculated as 15/26 * 1 * Last drawn salary i.e basic + da and this amount is contributed to the gratuity account that the company has with some LIC or related firm)
PF (This is the employer's contribution)
ESIC (if applicable - again employer's contribution)
Annual Bonus
LTA (if provided by your company)
=============================
CTC (i.e. cost to company)
Now from your monthly gross -
Gross (basic +da + hra + conveyance + medical allowance + other allowances)
(less) PF (This is employee contribution)
(less) Professional Tax
(less) TDS
===================
MONTHLY IN-HAND
===================
So if you see that PF contribution can be deducted only once from your gross.
The PF that was mentioned in you CTC is very much correct as that amount is also deposited in your PF account.
I hope if this was the doubt it was cleared.
================================================== ====
Again as mentioned by the Act,
1. A firm becomes eligible to PF Act only when it had more than 20 employees. Once the firm has more than 20 employees and is covered under PF Act, then even if the employment reduces to below 20, the firm still has to go on contributing to PF account
2. A person is eligible to be covered under PF Act only if his Basic + DA is less than or equal to 6500
3. If a person is in the firm and was appointed at a basic + da less than or equal to 6500 and hence was covered under PF Act, and if this worker is say for example given an increment so that now his basic + da is more than 6500, the person continues to be applicable under PF Act. The contributions to be made 12% on 6500 ceiling amount. If contribution is made on the actual basic + da, any excess amount over 12% of 6500 is taxed.
4. If you are covered under PF Act in this firm. Now you change your employment. Your new employer too is covered under PF Act. But because of change in employment, your salary is revised and now your basic + da is more than 6500 and hence in the new employment you do not become eligible for the PF contribution.
Yet I would want seniors to clarify this point as from Ms. Sharmila's post it seems that if I am covered under PF, even if I change my employer I continue to be covered and my employer is obliged to contribute for my PF.
Hope this helped to clarify your doubts.
From India, Mumbai
When it comes to EPF or Employee PF, we two side contributions -
1. Employee's Side: This is deducted from your salary i.e from your monthly gross. The minimum contribution as per PF Act is 12% and you can voluntarily scale it up to a maximum of 20%.
2. Employer's Side: This is not deducted from your salary. This is included in your CTC to show the transaction. (I shall explain how should it be refelcted). As per the PF Act, the employer is supposed to contribute a 12% of your Basic + DA to your PF&Pension Account. Out of this 12%, 8.33% goes to Pension Account and only 3.67% goes to the PF Account.
In addition to the 12% contribution made by the Employer, he is also liable to pay -
Administrative Charges - Handling for PF/Pension account
Employee Insurance Charge
Employee Insurance Handling Charge
However if the company provides some better insurance scheme, they can opt out of insurance scheme in PF act.
Now to see how the PFs should be reflected in your CTC-
Basic
DA
HRA
Conveyance
Medical Allowance
Other Allowances (if any)
=========================
GROSS
==========================
Gratuity (Calculated as 15/26 * 1 * Last drawn salary i.e basic + da and this amount is contributed to the gratuity account that the company has with some LIC or related firm)
PF (This is the employer's contribution)
ESIC (if applicable - again employer's contribution)
Annual Bonus
LTA (if provided by your company)
=============================
CTC (i.e. cost to company)
Now from your monthly gross -
Gross (basic +da + hra + conveyance + medical allowance + other allowances)
(less) PF (This is employee contribution)
(less) Professional Tax
(less) TDS
===================
MONTHLY IN-HAND
===================
So if you see that PF contribution can be deducted only once from your gross.
The PF that was mentioned in you CTC is very much correct as that amount is also deposited in your PF account.
I hope if this was the doubt it was cleared.
================================================== ====
Again as mentioned by the Act,
1. A firm becomes eligible to PF Act only when it had more than 20 employees. Once the firm has more than 20 employees and is covered under PF Act, then even if the employment reduces to below 20, the firm still has to go on contributing to PF account
2. A person is eligible to be covered under PF Act only if his Basic + DA is less than or equal to 6500
3. If a person is in the firm and was appointed at a basic + da less than or equal to 6500 and hence was covered under PF Act, and if this worker is say for example given an increment so that now his basic + da is more than 6500, the person continues to be applicable under PF Act. The contributions to be made 12% on 6500 ceiling amount. If contribution is made on the actual basic + da, any excess amount over 12% of 6500 is taxed.
4. If you are covered under PF Act in this firm. Now you change your employment. Your new employer too is covered under PF Act. But because of change in employment, your salary is revised and now your basic + da is more than 6500 and hence in the new employment you do not become eligible for the PF contribution.
Yet I would want seniors to clarify this point as from Ms. Sharmila's post it seems that if I am covered under PF, even if I change my employer I continue to be covered and my employer is obliged to contribute for my PF.
Hope this helped to clarify your doubts.
From India, Mumbai
Hi,,
Ms. Ankita has covered various facets of ctc and Epf provisions. Now to add -
A) when a person becomes member under EPF & MP Act he continues to be member till withdrawal of the contribution due to separation from service on various grounds. In such a case, the contribution alongwith employer contribution & administrative charges irrespective of his salary being less or more than Rs.6500 is to be remitted.
B) The instance of recovery of employer contribution & adm. charges may be brought to the notice of EPFO with proof of pay slip. This is violation of provisions of the Act on the part of employer. You can later on file an RTI application with EPFO seeking infn. on action taken on your complaint against employer. This way you can discipline the employer as well as EPFO officials.
Further, regarding remittance of contributions, you may visit EPFO site and get the infn. by registering.
From India, Mumbai
Ms. Ankita has covered various facets of ctc and Epf provisions. Now to add -
A) when a person becomes member under EPF & MP Act he continues to be member till withdrawal of the contribution due to separation from service on various grounds. In such a case, the contribution alongwith employer contribution & administrative charges irrespective of his salary being less or more than Rs.6500 is to be remitted.
B) The instance of recovery of employer contribution & adm. charges may be brought to the notice of EPFO with proof of pay slip. This is violation of provisions of the Act on the part of employer. You can later on file an RTI application with EPFO seeking infn. on action taken on your complaint against employer. This way you can discipline the employer as well as EPFO officials.
Further, regarding remittance of contributions, you may visit EPFO site and get the infn. by registering.
From India, Mumbai
A good discussion is taking place regarding PF. Can anyone clarify whether casual staffs are eligible for PF
From India, Kolkata
From India, Kolkata
Yes Ankita The exemption is available only to those whose starting salary in the company is above 6500 and who do not have an existing PF account at the time of joining the new company.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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