Hi,
Dear all,
I m sidheshwar working with ABB ltd, Bangalore as Compliance Coordinator(South India). I m handling company labour compliance. We are in power product business and power transmission and distribution business. I am handling compliance of all south project. We get contract from clients to setup power substation, installation of air conditioning system, installation of fire alarm system, installation of ventilation system etc.... So basically we are in project business. some projects are of longer duration or some are of shorter. Being a MNC company, we are concentrating on labour compliance. We face so many problem under Contract labour Act. before commencing of any project, we take labour license from labour dept (state or central). getting labour license, need registration of pricipal employer with labour dept. withour registration number of principal employer, labour dept do not issue labour license even Form V is issued by principal employer. Some Govt organisation do not issue Form V too. In this case, how we can execute the project. This is a bigger problem for us. Keeping in mind of project completion, may we become "PRINCIPAL EMPLOYER"? If yes, then we can issue Form V to our subcontrcator and they will get labour license. If no, what should we do? Pls suggest.
Regards
Sidheshwar
9986345225,
From India, Bangalore
32Dear all,
I m sidheshwar working with ABB ltd, Bangalore as Compliance Coordinator(South India). I m handling company labour compliance. We are in power product business and power transmission and distribution business. I am handling compliance of all south project. We get contract from clients to setup power substation, installation of air conditioning system, installation of fire alarm system, installation of ventilation system etc.... So basically we are in project business. some projects are of longer duration or some are of shorter. Being a MNC company, we are concentrating on labour compliance. We face so many problem under Contract labour Act. before commencing of any project, we take labour license from labour dept (state or central). getting labour license, need registration of pricipal employer with labour dept. withour registration number of principal employer, labour dept do not issue labour license even Form V is issued by principal employer. Some Govt organisation do not issue Form V too. In this case, how we can execute the project. This is a bigger problem for us. Keeping in mind of project completion, may we become "PRINCIPAL EMPLOYER"? If yes, then we can issue Form V to our subcontrcator and they will get labour license. If no, what should we do? Pls suggest.
Regards
Sidheshwar
9986345225,
From India, Bangalore
Hello Siddeswar :icon13: :icon13: If the contracting agency refuses to issue Form V, you will not become the principal employer. Since you are a contractor and the establishment does n't belong to you, I feel, legally, the status of being the principal employer cannot be strapped on you. To get over the problem I agree to your suggestion to issue Form V to the sub-contractors.Tehnically speaking, it would be necessary in such circumstances, for you to register yourself under the local Shops And Establishment Act so that you are also recognised as an establishment in relation to your contractors. For future, please make the issue of Form V mandatory, as a part of your offer.Regards KK Nair
From India, Bhopal
From India, Bhopal
Dear Nair,
Thank u for immediate respone.
My dear Nair, my organisation is registered under shops & establishment so we can issue Form V but question is different here. We are in two roles as:
1) As a Principal Employer, where we are running manufacturing units.
and
2) As a Principal Contractor, where we are in project business. Means getting contract and doing that. In this condition, we do not use any labour force but we award subcontract to use labour force for completion of project.
Now my question is?
Suppose we issue Form V to our subcontrcators who are engaging 20 or more than 20 labour as per CLA,1970 but what will happen with those contractor's labour who are engaging less than 20 for our project. How they will cover? If any thing goes wrong who will be responsible as our business is so risky(power sector). Now u suggest in this condition. What we should do?
Regards
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
Thank u for immediate respone.
My dear Nair, my organisation is registered under shops & establishment so we can issue Form V but question is different here. We are in two roles as:
1) As a Principal Employer, where we are running manufacturing units.
and
2) As a Principal Contractor, where we are in project business. Means getting contract and doing that. In this condition, we do not use any labour force but we award subcontract to use labour force for completion of project.
Now my question is?
Suppose we issue Form V to our subcontrcators who are engaging 20 or more than 20 labour as per CLA,1970 but what will happen with those contractor's labour who are engaging less than 20 for our project. How they will cover? If any thing goes wrong who will be responsible as our business is so risky(power sector). Now u suggest in this condition. What we should do?
Regards
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Sidheswar I am also often contfronted with this position where I have to deal with parties having less than 20 workmen, so legally and validly so, they do not require any labour license.My response is a firm "NO". If a contractor has to deal with us he has to have a labour license. Without license and considering the risks involved in the operations, God only can save from serios embarassments and endless harassment of Labour authorities. So do not relax from your strict conditions. Any leniency here is at your risk. By insisting on this pre-condition you will be able to bring the contractors around. This is bitter lesson I have learnt. Thankx KK Nair
From India, Bhopal
From India, Bhopal
Yes Sir,
I agreed with ur concern. Actually, why i posted such matter reason is that we have been awarded a contract by BESCOM RLMS, Bangalore for Transmission and Distribution of HT and LT supply of electricity. Basically this project is for Rural area. We have to complete this project in 14 district of karnataka. But BESCOM has refused to became as Pricipal Employer. When I met with Director Law of KPTCL(Karnataka Power Transmission Corporation Ltd), he replied that we are not Principal Employer and refused to issue Form V. But due to project managers relations with BESCOM other authority, we took Form V. We applied for labour license to labour dept then Asst labour commissioners are asking registration number of BESCOM. They said that without registration of BESCOM, we will not issue labour license. Our 14 applications are pending with all concened ALC. Even I met with state labour commissioner but reply is same. I don't know what will happen with us but we have started our project. I have informed the same to all our concerned officer. Now matter with labour dept. This is problem. I am facing same problem with other clients who are state or central govt.
Regards
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
I agreed with ur concern. Actually, why i posted such matter reason is that we have been awarded a contract by BESCOM RLMS, Bangalore for Transmission and Distribution of HT and LT supply of electricity. Basically this project is for Rural area. We have to complete this project in 14 district of karnataka. But BESCOM has refused to became as Pricipal Employer. When I met with Director Law of KPTCL(Karnataka Power Transmission Corporation Ltd), he replied that we are not Principal Employer and refused to issue Form V. But due to project managers relations with BESCOM other authority, we took Form V. We applied for labour license to labour dept then Asst labour commissioners are asking registration number of BESCOM. They said that without registration of BESCOM, we will not issue labour license. Our 14 applications are pending with all concened ALC. Even I met with state labour commissioner but reply is same. I don't know what will happen with us but we have started our project. I have informed the same to all our concerned officer. Now matter with labour dept. This is problem. I am facing same problem with other clients who are state or central govt.
Regards
Sidheshwar
From India, Bangalore
Dear Sid,
BESCOM is clearly the principal employer and they are supposed to give you Form V under the CLRA Act.However,if no. of employees engagaed by you is less than 20,you are not required to obtain a labour licence.It is really frustrating to know that BESCOM is not cooperting in a matter involving legal compliance but for the sake of record and to prove your good intent,please keep writing to BESCOM followed by reminders about their Reg.No. explianing to them that you are unable to obtain licence without it.
Rahul
From India, Kolkata
BESCOM is clearly the principal employer and they are supposed to give you Form V under the CLRA Act.However,if no. of employees engagaed by you is less than 20,you are not required to obtain a labour licence.It is really frustrating to know that BESCOM is not cooperting in a matter involving legal compliance but for the sake of record and to prove your good intent,please keep writing to BESCOM followed by reminders about their Reg.No. explianing to them that you are unable to obtain licence without it.
Rahul
From India, Kolkata
Dear Sidhu :blink: In your situation, what I would look for is contractors who already possess labour license. If a party is an established one handling contracts at different places with various agencies, then they are not tagged to one agency for Form V purposes. If you keep pressurising your contractors they know how to get the license, by hook or crook, better with both. You can try this alternative. But you be certain in the circumstances in which you are, you won't be the Principal Employer, as the work essentially is carried out not in your premise nor the ultimate beneficiary is you. Hope you have got some headway. :wacko: Regards Nair KK.
From India, Bhopal
From India, Bhopal
dear friends,
i have been following the discussion and to my understanding the company issuing the contract (here the SEB) for execution by another company (vendor like ABB etc.), will necessary be the principal employer (i.e. the SEB) under the contract labour (r&a) act and as such has to follow certain outlined procedures - of which getting a license for employing contract labour is the first step. this is then followed by the formalities related to form V, X etc. to regulate employment of contractor's labourers. i would say that whatever the practicalities involved, you should insist on getting a the form V from the customer (i.e. the SEB). if need be you should take the route of the contract itself - formally puting such clauses which curtail the liabilities under the contract labour (r&a) act . i have seen incases of PSU customers (like NTPC etc), the formalities are followed most stringently. the same should be insisted with state govt. customers, citing this precedence. in any case as far as i understand the contract labour (r&a) act, to my mind you cannot take on the status of "principal employer" as the main vendor - although you may undertake the "liability" as though you were the principal employer, through the work order/contract.
regards,
mxsingh
i have been following the discussion and to my understanding the company issuing the contract (here the SEB) for execution by another company (vendor like ABB etc.), will necessary be the principal employer (i.e. the SEB) under the contract labour (r&a) act and as such has to follow certain outlined procedures - of which getting a license for employing contract labour is the first step. this is then followed by the formalities related to form V, X etc. to regulate employment of contractor's labourers. i would say that whatever the practicalities involved, you should insist on getting a the form V from the customer (i.e. the SEB). if need be you should take the route of the contract itself - formally puting such clauses which curtail the liabilities under the contract labour (r&a) act . i have seen incases of PSU customers (like NTPC etc), the formalities are followed most stringently. the same should be insisted with state govt. customers, citing this precedence. in any case as far as i understand the contract labour (r&a) act, to my mind you cannot take on the status of "principal employer" as the main vendor - although you may undertake the "liability" as though you were the principal employer, through the work order/contract.
regards,
mxsingh
Dear Freinds,
I have written so many letters to BESCOM for getting registration of to labour dept but no reply so far. What I did, i submitted application alongwith prescribed fee and got ackn. from labour dept. I have written labour dept that BESCOM is in process of getting registration and we will provide the same in due course.
Thanks & Regards
Sidheshwar
9844586572
From India, Bangalore
I have written so many letters to BESCOM for getting registration of to labour dept but no reply so far. What I did, i submitted application alongwith prescribed fee and got ackn. from labour dept. I have written labour dept that BESCOM is in process of getting registration and we will provide the same in due course.
Thanks & Regards
Sidheshwar
9844586572
From India, Bangalore
Dear Sid,
Under the circumstances,you have done enough and therefore keep low for some time.What is important is your intention to comply with the law and you have already done the best that one could.If you try to do more,you will only end up antagonising BESCOM, the principal employer and I'm sure you wouldn't like to risk that.
Regards,
Rahul
From India, Kolkata
Under the circumstances,you have done enough and therefore keep low for some time.What is important is your intention to comply with the law and you have already done the best that one could.If you try to do more,you will only end up antagonising BESCOM, the principal employer and I'm sure you wouldn't like to risk that.
Regards,
Rahul
From India, Kolkata
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