Does professionalism today necessarily mean making blanket statements like, " I will call you back" and then not following it up.. or "It's a pleasure meeting you..let us stay connected" and then not responding even to the email..or " Call me up, we will talk.." and not taking the phone call or calling back or making a promise and not keeping it.... WHAT DO YOU SAY?
From India, Pune
8From India, Pune
Great topic, Ramesh.
I find this a lot in Indian middle managers. People in the West are more civilized. Over there in the West, I have found people to respect one another like they would want to be treated themselves.
But here in India hangs a tale. It has been my gripe for many years now. Indian middle managers are the worst lot of people to deal with. They have very poor or no work ethics, no self-discipline, as in they come in late for meetings, give you an appointment and forget to turn up, work from home a lot, are never found on their desks, are never available to take your call, have told the front-office executives never to let their names, email addresses or extension numbers given out to anyone, and the list goes on.
The worst thing is: these people are themselves the most ineffective, inefficient and lazy. You have to understand where they came from, in order to appreciate why they are such.
You see, all companies borrow their human capital from the societies they are located within. Therefore, one has to look at the Indian societal context to appreciate where this sort of negligent, mean and exploitative attitude comes from. In India, there is a huge disparity between the middle class and the lower class we use as domestic help.
And the Indian middle class and upper class are exploitative towards the lower class because of the economic disparity. I believe it started with the colonization of the British and all British colonies have stains of this societal trait in their modern cultures. Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Australia -- though much better than India in dealing with people -- still have the relics of this exploitative division.
My theory is that since we grow up ill-treating and abusing the lower, poorer economic sect, this attitude feeds into our working culture even in the white collar space.
As a result, Indian managers tend to look down upon their subordinates and anyone else, such as external vendors and service providers, whom they are in a position of control with as their servants.
I would have liked to say that with all the globalization that's been happening in the last 20 years, things are changing for the better. But I shudder to make such a statement.
Indian managers, esp. middle-managers are the worst kinds of rogues. Most people who cannot do things technically or cannot remain in individual contribution roles tend to become managers because (1) they can't wait to stop doing real work; and (2) they are good bullies, which works in anti-democratic environments such as corporations and businesses. Businesses are not democracies.
There are only a very few people who move into management and retain their good behavior and etiquette. These people are the ones then that move up into senior management roles, and thank goodness for that.
That is why, you'd come across people in the most senior echelons of any organization as being very friendly, cordial and more approachable.
Nature vs. Nurture
To wrap it up, it is an effect of both, their personal natures and sense of personal responsibility (nature), and the conditioning they have been through (the Indian context and their family values. People who grew up the hard way and struggled through hardships generally tend to have better and more positive, respectful attitudes).
A test of how pleasing a person is to work with boils down nicely to their desire for self-improvement and personal discipline. People with a strong desire for self-improvement have a keen sense of discipline, they value their time and so that of the others, they always write things down, esp. the commitments they have made to others, are very well-organized and therefore treat other people with respect.
But such people are very rare, esp. in India.
Disclaimer: It would not be fair to paint all with the same brush. I have found exceptions to the rule. But they are numbered.
From India, Ghaziabad
I find this a lot in Indian middle managers. People in the West are more civilized. Over there in the West, I have found people to respect one another like they would want to be treated themselves.
But here in India hangs a tale. It has been my gripe for many years now. Indian middle managers are the worst lot of people to deal with. They have very poor or no work ethics, no self-discipline, as in they come in late for meetings, give you an appointment and forget to turn up, work from home a lot, are never found on their desks, are never available to take your call, have told the front-office executives never to let their names, email addresses or extension numbers given out to anyone, and the list goes on.
The worst thing is: these people are themselves the most ineffective, inefficient and lazy. You have to understand where they came from, in order to appreciate why they are such.
You see, all companies borrow their human capital from the societies they are located within. Therefore, one has to look at the Indian societal context to appreciate where this sort of negligent, mean and exploitative attitude comes from. In India, there is a huge disparity between the middle class and the lower class we use as domestic help.
And the Indian middle class and upper class are exploitative towards the lower class because of the economic disparity. I believe it started with the colonization of the British and all British colonies have stains of this societal trait in their modern cultures. Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Australia -- though much better than India in dealing with people -- still have the relics of this exploitative division.
My theory is that since we grow up ill-treating and abusing the lower, poorer economic sect, this attitude feeds into our working culture even in the white collar space.
As a result, Indian managers tend to look down upon their subordinates and anyone else, such as external vendors and service providers, whom they are in a position of control with as their servants.
I would have liked to say that with all the globalization that's been happening in the last 20 years, things are changing for the better. But I shudder to make such a statement.
Indian managers, esp. middle-managers are the worst kinds of rogues. Most people who cannot do things technically or cannot remain in individual contribution roles tend to become managers because (1) they can't wait to stop doing real work; and (2) they are good bullies, which works in anti-democratic environments such as corporations and businesses. Businesses are not democracies.
There are only a very few people who move into management and retain their good behavior and etiquette. These people are the ones then that move up into senior management roles, and thank goodness for that.
That is why, you'd come across people in the most senior echelons of any organization as being very friendly, cordial and more approachable.
Nature vs. Nurture
To wrap it up, it is an effect of both, their personal natures and sense of personal responsibility (nature), and the conditioning they have been through (the Indian context and their family values. People who grew up the hard way and struggled through hardships generally tend to have better and more positive, respectful attitudes).
A test of how pleasing a person is to work with boils down nicely to their desire for self-improvement and personal discipline. People with a strong desire for self-improvement have a keen sense of discipline, they value their time and so that of the others, they always write things down, esp. the commitments they have made to others, are very well-organized and therefore treat other people with respect.
But such people are very rare, esp. in India.
Disclaimer: It would not be fair to paint all with the same brush. I have found exceptions to the rule. But they are numbered.
From India, Ghaziabad
Enough about the problem. Now for the solution. :-)
I do not have the context or I could've helped you more. I looked up your profile and you seem like a really intelligent and talented person and it says you are an AGM, but still given today's ambiguous job titles, I wouldn't know what you do exactly, so I am going to hazard a guess.
If this is a sales situation you are talking about, here's your best bet in dealing with it.
If the person seemed to you during your rendezvous with them as a genuine buyer who actually had a need for your product or service, back up for a few weeks and get in touch with them again. You see, today, people are busy. Very busy. You have to keep reminding them. It's okay if someone goes radio silent on you. It's okay to call back again after some time. You are not stalking them. You're just trying to help fulfill their business need.
If, however, you go over the first meeting you had with this person, in your mind and you come to the conclusion that this person did not have any real need for your product, and simply called you to waste your time, and is actually a moron, as in, they have no personal sense of responsibility, did not keep up their appointment, made you run around, don't respond even to your emails, then here's the real solution -- Move on! there's plenty of fish in the pond!
A moron like that is not worth your attention. If they ill treated you because of their personal habits, chances are, they will do it again. You can't change people. Habits are the most difficult things to change. Just move on. Go knock the next door.
Here, an article of mine highlights the agony I've had as a salesperson: The Enterprise of Survival Is a Numbers Game
Here's another one: Success Is Formulaic
Here are some tips for your next business meeting :-) 10 Tips For Success At Business Meetings
Here a really motiational video from Jim Rohn on this topic called The Law of Averages: Jim Rohn - The Law of Averages in Sales and Management - YouTube
From India, Ghaziabad
I do not have the context or I could've helped you more. I looked up your profile and you seem like a really intelligent and talented person and it says you are an AGM, but still given today's ambiguous job titles, I wouldn't know what you do exactly, so I am going to hazard a guess.
If this is a sales situation you are talking about, here's your best bet in dealing with it.
If the person seemed to you during your rendezvous with them as a genuine buyer who actually had a need for your product or service, back up for a few weeks and get in touch with them again. You see, today, people are busy. Very busy. You have to keep reminding them. It's okay if someone goes radio silent on you. It's okay to call back again after some time. You are not stalking them. You're just trying to help fulfill their business need.
If, however, you go over the first meeting you had with this person, in your mind and you come to the conclusion that this person did not have any real need for your product, and simply called you to waste your time, and is actually a moron, as in, they have no personal sense of responsibility, did not keep up their appointment, made you run around, don't respond even to your emails, then here's the real solution -- Move on! there's plenty of fish in the pond!
A moron like that is not worth your attention. If they ill treated you because of their personal habits, chances are, they will do it again. You can't change people. Habits are the most difficult things to change. Just move on. Go knock the next door.
Here, an article of mine highlights the agony I've had as a salesperson: The Enterprise of Survival Is a Numbers Game
Here's another one: Success Is Formulaic
Here are some tips for your next business meeting :-) 10 Tips For Success At Business Meetings
Here a really motiational video from Jim Rohn on this topic called The Law of Averages: Jim Rohn - The Law of Averages in Sales and Management - YouTube
From India, Ghaziabad
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