Friends,
I am faced with a problem. My company is in the Manufacturing industry. As a part of the Quality Management System requirement, we are expected to conduct regular training programs to update the skills and knowledge levels of our employees. So far, we have been conducting training programs during working hours. The employees (in different groups) are pulled from the work floor to attend these training sessions. We have three hours of training per week. Recently, HR received feedback from the Production Manager that training during working hours is causing a loss of manpower, resulting in low production. The pressure from Production was so strong that we had to take up the matter with top management. Now, it has been decided to conduct training after working hours or during holidays.
The issue here is that the trainees show less interest in training participation and raise lots of complaints as many female staff face problems in getting back home late. Personally, I feel that the employees' attitude towards training has drastically reduced. I tried my best to convince the top management and the production team that the loss of manpower due to training is only a short-term phenomenon but will have greater positive results in the long term. However, I was not able to strengthen my points with facts, whereas the production team was better able to convince the top management with facts and figures regarding the loss of production.
Currently, HR feels that the training program has reduced to merely an act of producing records for training instead of skill development.
I wish to know the general practice followed in the manufacturing industry regarding the timing of training programs. What are your thoughts on the timing of training? Is it better to have training during working hours or during holidays/after working hours?
Please share your opinions. What practices do you follow in your organizations? Do you have any alternative suggestions?
Regards,
Shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)
Amend(0)
125I am faced with a problem. My company is in the Manufacturing industry. As a part of the Quality Management System requirement, we are expected to conduct regular training programs to update the skills and knowledge levels of our employees. So far, we have been conducting training programs during working hours. The employees (in different groups) are pulled from the work floor to attend these training sessions. We have three hours of training per week. Recently, HR received feedback from the Production Manager that training during working hours is causing a loss of manpower, resulting in low production. The pressure from Production was so strong that we had to take up the matter with top management. Now, it has been decided to conduct training after working hours or during holidays.
The issue here is that the trainees show less interest in training participation and raise lots of complaints as many female staff face problems in getting back home late. Personally, I feel that the employees' attitude towards training has drastically reduced. I tried my best to convince the top management and the production team that the loss of manpower due to training is only a short-term phenomenon but will have greater positive results in the long term. However, I was not able to strengthen my points with facts, whereas the production team was better able to convince the top management with facts and figures regarding the loss of production.
Currently, HR feels that the training program has reduced to merely an act of producing records for training instead of skill development.
I wish to know the general practice followed in the manufacturing industry regarding the timing of training programs. What are your thoughts on the timing of training? Is it better to have training during working hours or during holidays/after working hours?
Please share your opinions. What practices do you follow in your organizations? Do you have any alternative suggestions?
Regards,
Shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Friends, I wish if i could get some comments from you regarding the above post. regards, shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi Shijit,
I think this is a very universal problem faced by all manufacturing units. You can try the option that I tried in one of the assignments in the manufacturing unit. I studied the working pattern and found that it was very difficult to pull out people for training programs stretching for the entire day or two. Instead, with consensus with management, we decided on a time when the people were relatively free for two to three hours and accordingly completed topics on time management, communication, etc. Each module was completed in a pattern of 2 hours a day thrice a week. You can try this out at your workplace. This is very effective as the trainer is in touch with the participants very often, and it becomes easy to drive down a point over and over again.
Regards,
Deepali
From China
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I think this is a very universal problem faced by all manufacturing units. You can try the option that I tried in one of the assignments in the manufacturing unit. I studied the working pattern and found that it was very difficult to pull out people for training programs stretching for the entire day or two. Instead, with consensus with management, we decided on a time when the people were relatively free for two to three hours and accordingly completed topics on time management, communication, etc. Each module was completed in a pattern of 2 hours a day thrice a week. You can try this out at your workplace. This is very effective as the trainer is in touch with the participants very often, and it becomes easy to drive down a point over and over again.
Regards,
Deepali
From China
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Thanks, Deepali, for your comments. Our plan was also similar to the one that you mentioned. Earlier, we used to conduct sessions with a 1 to 2-hour duration twice a week. Now, it has changed to outside working hours and holidays as they are not willing to send people for training during working hours. Currently, I am left with the choice of conducting training on holidays and after working hours. However, I don't get a good response from trainees in terms of their attitude and participation.
Regards,
Shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Regards,
Shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Shijit,
The concern raised by you is not only restricted to the Manufacturing Industry but is prevalent across most of the industries. A similar kind of problem was faced during our training sessions. We are a value-driven, service-oriented private sector company. While we tried to analyze, we found lots of perceptions and opinions of people. Just thought to share with all of you here so that we can also expand the scope for further discussion.
1. Training programs are conducted without actual training need identification. Everyone is eager to learn, "What is there for me?" If he/she finds something worth for their development, then only the interest level increases.
2. Training programs are conducted because MY HR feels that the program is essential for me. What is needed for my skills enhancement against job specification is not even being discussed with me.
3. Too much of general philosophy, macro or strategic thinking picture to those who are very much involved in transactional nature jobs.
4. Training programs are squeezed to the extent of late night, in order to save costs and to ensure the schedule is met within decided timelines.
5. Trainers not from the desired domain are trying to apply one logic to all kinds of problems.
And a few more...
These were some outcomes while we tried to delve into the depth of lesser interest levels apart from regular human behavior.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
The concern raised by you is not only restricted to the Manufacturing Industry but is prevalent across most of the industries. A similar kind of problem was faced during our training sessions. We are a value-driven, service-oriented private sector company. While we tried to analyze, we found lots of perceptions and opinions of people. Just thought to share with all of you here so that we can also expand the scope for further discussion.
1. Training programs are conducted without actual training need identification. Everyone is eager to learn, "What is there for me?" If he/she finds something worth for their development, then only the interest level increases.
2. Training programs are conducted because MY HR feels that the program is essential for me. What is needed for my skills enhancement against job specification is not even being discussed with me.
3. Too much of general philosophy, macro or strategic thinking picture to those who are very much involved in transactional nature jobs.
4. Training programs are squeezed to the extent of late night, in order to save costs and to ensure the schedule is met within decided timelines.
5. Trainers not from the desired domain are trying to apply one logic to all kinds of problems.
And a few more...
These were some outcomes while we tried to delve into the depth of lesser interest levels apart from regular human behavior.
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Training that is related to a specific skill, i.e. "How to operate a new machine," should be done during normal working hours as the individual cannot get this training anywhere else and it is essentially one of the core skills needed to get the job done.
Training related to soft skills, i.e. attitude, personality development, behavioral issues, etc., should and can be done after hours, weekends, or holidays. The attention span of the trainees at those times mentioned is very short, and thus the length should be minimized.
There are skills that any employee must develop for their continued growth and to provide ongoing value to the company. These should include the employee's contribution of their time to the process. The company may provide some incentives for the time taken, such as lunch, transportation, etc.
In our company, we made all such training voluntary, and those who participated gained points and were eligible for consideration before those who didn't. For example, computer training across the company provided opportunities for employees who participated when vacancies arose.
Raineldo Guerrero
From Belize
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Training related to soft skills, i.e. attitude, personality development, behavioral issues, etc., should and can be done after hours, weekends, or holidays. The attention span of the trainees at those times mentioned is very short, and thus the length should be minimized.
There are skills that any employee must develop for their continued growth and to provide ongoing value to the company. These should include the employee's contribution of their time to the process. The company may provide some incentives for the time taken, such as lunch, transportation, etc.
In our company, we made all such training voluntary, and those who participated gained points and were eligible for consideration before those who didn't. For example, computer training across the company provided opportunities for employees who participated when vacancies arose.
Raineldo Guerrero
From Belize
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Training is a must, especially in the manufacturing sector. In order to be competitive in any field, trained workmen/staff are a valuable asset. Hence, after a day of long work, if you are going to retain employees for training, the stress of employees will be high, resulting in negativity, and the amount spent on T&D will be wasted.
Therefore, your production department has to plan the target taking into consideration 2 days absent/leave and 1 day for training every month for each employee. You have to convince the production department/top management that we will be nowhere if employees' work knowledge depletes day by day.
Regards
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Therefore, your production department has to plan the target taking into consideration 2 days absent/leave and 1 day for training every month for each employee. You have to convince the production department/top management that we will be nowhere if employees' work knowledge depletes day by day.
Regards
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hello everyone,
I was reassigned to a new position. I am now a call center supervisor and facing new challenges. I am having a hard time with shift scheduling and call center agents' work evaluation. Please send me articles that can help me.
Thank you.
From Philippines, Makati
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I was reassigned to a new position. I am now a call center supervisor and facing new challenges. I am having a hard time with shift scheduling and call center agents' work evaluation. Please send me articles that can help me.
Thank you.
From Philippines, Makati
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi friend,
Different perceptions you shared are very much true, and I feel many of them are general perceptions in all companies. I think HR in modern times has a big challenge to take the concept of training and development to a new paradigm. From just a training program to the real skill and knowledge development exercise, from one single exercise to ongoing and continual exercise, from HR activity/requirement to organizational activity/requirement. It now looks like training is the sole responsibility of HR. But if the entire organization doesn't see the main objective of training as long-term skill development, which ultimately results in organizational development, training and development exercises initiated by HR will continue to remain a calendar activity. I think there is a great challenge before all of us. Thanks to all other members for sharing their opinions.
Regards,
shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Different perceptions you shared are very much true, and I feel many of them are general perceptions in all companies. I think HR in modern times has a big challenge to take the concept of training and development to a new paradigm. From just a training program to the real skill and knowledge development exercise, from one single exercise to ongoing and continual exercise, from HR activity/requirement to organizational activity/requirement. It now looks like training is the sole responsibility of HR. But if the entire organization doesn't see the main objective of training as long-term skill development, which ultimately results in organizational development, training and development exercises initiated by HR will continue to remain a calendar activity. I think there is a great challenge before all of us. Thanks to all other members for sharing their opinions.
Regards,
shijit.
From India, Kochi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
We are in the service industry where people are required on the spot to handle customers and business. We can't think of moving anyone from the routine operations. Whenever mass training is conducted, we do it on the week off day. It's all up to convincing the employees about the requirement of the training. We have never faced any problems from employees.
From India
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Your basic problem is with the production unit:
I hope your training program will definitely improve production. Then make a presentation with the fore-casted results i.e increase in production (because of training output) and production as per present criteria. Justify the Production manager with other seniors the role of training to increase production.
Suppose HR think training is needed for production staff and the task will take two month.
If you engage staff for training weekly or daily during working hour, obviously it will reduce production but for only two months. After completion of training, the staff’s output will be increased and definitely production will also increased (basically the training program is made for increasing production output directly or indirectly.). And there will be no change in average production for the year, it may increase but may not decrease.
Further, if the training is not needed for all the staff i.e. it is required for few of them, then make changes in staff working schedule and put someone else in the place of those while training.
So please justify them with your powerful presentation and facts and take the task.
Further clarification welcome
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I hope your training program will definitely improve production. Then make a presentation with the fore-casted results i.e increase in production (because of training output) and production as per present criteria. Justify the Production manager with other seniors the role of training to increase production.
Suppose HR think training is needed for production staff and the task will take two month.
If you engage staff for training weekly or daily during working hour, obviously it will reduce production but for only two months. After completion of training, the staff’s output will be increased and definitely production will also increased (basically the training program is made for increasing production output directly or indirectly.). And there will be no change in average production for the year, it may increase but may not decrease.
Further, if the training is not needed for all the staff i.e. it is required for few of them, then make changes in staff working schedule and put someone else in the place of those while training.
So please justify them with your powerful presentation and facts and take the task.
Further clarification welcome
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi Shijit,
I too have faced the same problem, as it was told to me by top management to schedule a training program on the weekly off. So, forcefully, all attended the training, but some have shown disinterest during the training, and some were saying we have lost one off day. Management is not allowing training during working hours, and after working hours, employees are not interested, resulting in employee dissatisfaction.
Regards,
Varsha
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I too have faced the same problem, as it was told to me by top management to schedule a training program on the weekly off. So, forcefully, all attended the training, but some have shown disinterest during the training, and some were saying we have lost one off day. Management is not allowing training during working hours, and after working hours, employees are not interested, resulting in employee dissatisfaction.
Regards,
Varsha
From India, Pune
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
For a manufacturing industry, the work output is more important. However, only if the work is done properly and in a smart way, can they produce better results. If training is conducted after work hours, most employees do not concentrate on it, rendering the training purposeless. It becomes a mere waste of time and can also lead to negative feedback from the employees. Conversely, if training is provided during work hours, it yields positive results in a short period.
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
From India, Madras
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Shijit,
This is exactly where we as HR fail to be business partners. Your operations are the reason why HR exists. They can easily ask you to compromise on the training hours but will clamp down on you when you take away their productivity hours.
Now I see that you want to ensure that the select employees complete the Quality Management System Training, which will only help the participants become much more efficient and productive. If this is not the reason, then please do cancel the program!!!
This is what I request you to do:
1) Find out what the benefits of this training program are.
2) Ask the consultants or research the time saved/earned over a period of 6 months post-training (for another company).
3) Convert that time into money, i.e., figures (e.g., 1 hour a day is saved per day, i.e., manufacturing of 4 new items; hence, over a period of 120 working days: 480 new items per employee compared to an investment of 5 days (assumed) X 3 (3 hours = 3 items) = 15 items not manufactured.
Hence, ROI: 480-15 = 465 items.
For example, if each item costs Rs. 10,000, then increased production: Rs. 46,50,000/-
When you present such numbers, do you think that your management would ever question your training's worthiness or worry about trivial issues such as when to do the training?
Think about it!!
Present this to your Operations Management team.
When they see the benefits of doing this, that's when they will agree to working within hours.
If they still order you to conduct it after hours/holidays, you can always tell them that then the participants will not be that interested and will not focus on the programs since they will still be distracted and disgruntled!
Regards,
Kenneth Lewis
9004038788
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
This is exactly where we as HR fail to be business partners. Your operations are the reason why HR exists. They can easily ask you to compromise on the training hours but will clamp down on you when you take away their productivity hours.
Now I see that you want to ensure that the select employees complete the Quality Management System Training, which will only help the participants become much more efficient and productive. If this is not the reason, then please do cancel the program!!!
This is what I request you to do:
1) Find out what the benefits of this training program are.
2) Ask the consultants or research the time saved/earned over a period of 6 months post-training (for another company).
3) Convert that time into money, i.e., figures (e.g., 1 hour a day is saved per day, i.e., manufacturing of 4 new items; hence, over a period of 120 working days: 480 new items per employee compared to an investment of 5 days (assumed) X 3 (3 hours = 3 items) = 15 items not manufactured.
Hence, ROI: 480-15 = 465 items.
For example, if each item costs Rs. 10,000, then increased production: Rs. 46,50,000/-
When you present such numbers, do you think that your management would ever question your training's worthiness or worry about trivial issues such as when to do the training?
Think about it!!
Present this to your Operations Management team.
When they see the benefits of doing this, that's when they will agree to working within hours.
If they still order you to conduct it after hours/holidays, you can always tell them that then the participants will not be that interested and will not focus on the programs since they will still be distracted and disgruntled!
Regards,
Kenneth Lewis
9004038788
From India, Mumbai
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi Sijit,
I'm working as a trainer with a hospital, and we conduct training in soft skills and technical skills. I understand the problem you are going through, and I faced the same problem initially when I joined 2 years ago. The most important part of my success is that my top management was with me, and they were convinced that trainings are important and will have a long-term effect.
What you can do is:
- Take the production team into confidence.
- Change the style of training (What style do you use?).
- People will not like to work or attend training after work hours if they do not know what is in it for them. Other than ISO, do your trainings promise them anything like an impact on the appraisal system, etc.?
- Finally, don't lose heart. Keep trying. Trainings will not have immediate impacts; they have to cause impacts during the course of time.
If you would like any other help, please let me know.
From India, Manipal
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
I'm working as a trainer with a hospital, and we conduct training in soft skills and technical skills. I understand the problem you are going through, and I faced the same problem initially when I joined 2 years ago. The most important part of my success is that my top management was with me, and they were convinced that trainings are important and will have a long-term effect.
What you can do is:
- Take the production team into confidence.
- Change the style of training (What style do you use?).
- People will not like to work or attend training after work hours if they do not know what is in it for them. Other than ISO, do your trainings promise them anything like an impact on the appraisal system, etc.?
- Finally, don't lose heart. Keep trying. Trainings will not have immediate impacts; they have to cause impacts during the course of time.
If you would like any other help, please let me know.
From India, Manipal
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Hi
Greetings
Some more findings on training from my side - this is for soft skills training only
For all of us, the process of learning reminds us of school -we walk to school, but run home because we do not like school but like our home (applicable to most of our countrymen, except for a small minority which loves school because of the love/interest there)
So training and learning is approached with disgust, revulsion and other negative emotions
To have effective learning /training the atmosphere should be more of home atmosphere - home discipline; some of the fast and also stray thoughts that come to my mind are (I know you will not agree with all the points, but it is once again a case of situational management )
A) Convert the production manager, your top management to the concept that training and learning leads to lifelong improvement – they should mentor you, the training dept., they should design the course content
B) Evaluation of training - the emotional effect , maturity level after training - how are you going to measure these – agree on this beforehand as we engineers believe more in data collection and measurement stuff
C) The participant should look forward to training - we normally recommend putting up the trainer’s profile near the canteen along with the program and also the “carry- aways” from the program; Individual invitation is send by the trainer through email, but calling up on mobile is preferred
D) The batch size should be 17 to max.20 participants
E) A good training program should be conducted within the campus, at a place which is a minimum of 200 meters away from the normal work spot
F) Timing of the training – depends on your culture, sugar coatings offered, - basically your call
1) Trainer should be an outsider - a friend who has come to our home and whose opinion we value because of his outside experience which we can learn and apply in our own field from the next moment. LKG and KG kids bond and obey the outside teacher when compared to the parents with whom they have spent so much time
2) Trainer should preferably be a lady for a training class which is predominantly male – have found this very effective, but am not able to explain logically – possible explanation is in the emotional plane of the facilitator and the participants. A lady trainer for a class of lady participants is normally a disaster (with exceptions of course)
3) Training should be mandatory for promotion
4) To reduce costs training can be online; the content development should create curiosity and interest; at the end of 30 minutes questions to be answered on line; questions should be generated at random from a pool of questions; the participants can undergo the course at a time of his convenience, but within the time frame of the week or month
5) Finally, “what new thing I can learn so that my life style improves, family life style improves, in what way I can advise my kids, what the personal benefit is” should be the direction of training – changing a participant and betterment of his life at home will lead to an improvement in professional life (learn from Japan what we seem to be forgetting – Family should be priority no. 1)
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Greetings
Some more findings on training from my side - this is for soft skills training only
For all of us, the process of learning reminds us of school -we walk to school, but run home because we do not like school but like our home (applicable to most of our countrymen, except for a small minority which loves school because of the love/interest there)
So training and learning is approached with disgust, revulsion and other negative emotions
To have effective learning /training the atmosphere should be more of home atmosphere - home discipline; some of the fast and also stray thoughts that come to my mind are (I know you will not agree with all the points, but it is once again a case of situational management )
A) Convert the production manager, your top management to the concept that training and learning leads to lifelong improvement – they should mentor you, the training dept., they should design the course content
B) Evaluation of training - the emotional effect , maturity level after training - how are you going to measure these – agree on this beforehand as we engineers believe more in data collection and measurement stuff
C) The participant should look forward to training - we normally recommend putting up the trainer’s profile near the canteen along with the program and also the “carry- aways” from the program; Individual invitation is send by the trainer through email, but calling up on mobile is preferred
D) The batch size should be 17 to max.20 participants
E) A good training program should be conducted within the campus, at a place which is a minimum of 200 meters away from the normal work spot
F) Timing of the training – depends on your culture, sugar coatings offered, - basically your call
1) Trainer should be an outsider - a friend who has come to our home and whose opinion we value because of his outside experience which we can learn and apply in our own field from the next moment. LKG and KG kids bond and obey the outside teacher when compared to the parents with whom they have spent so much time
2) Trainer should preferably be a lady for a training class which is predominantly male – have found this very effective, but am not able to explain logically – possible explanation is in the emotional plane of the facilitator and the participants. A lady trainer for a class of lady participants is normally a disaster (with exceptions of course)
3) Training should be mandatory for promotion
4) To reduce costs training can be online; the content development should create curiosity and interest; at the end of 30 minutes questions to be answered on line; questions should be generated at random from a pool of questions; the participants can undergo the course at a time of his convenience, but within the time frame of the week or month
5) Finally, “what new thing I can learn so that my life style improves, family life style improves, in what way I can advise my kids, what the personal benefit is” should be the direction of training – changing a participant and betterment of his life at home will lead to an improvement in professional life (learn from Japan what we seem to be forgetting – Family should be priority no. 1)
From India, Gurgaon
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Dear Shitij,
Your passion for training and thus developing human resources is very much visible. As suggested by some, conduct technical training sessions during working hours, and as soft skills sessions can be made really interesting, they can be conducted in the morning time, extending the work time to the normal timeline. This would also help women who have problems reaching home late, to avail cab facilities, if given in your company rather than managing on their own.
Furthermore, I believe that rather than keeping trainings on holidays (which everyone complains about), they should be held before working hours (soft skills), and not 3 days a week for one hour each day. Instead, finish it in one day, reduce the lunchtime, and extend working hours for 2 days to recover the production loss.
Regards
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)
Your passion for training and thus developing human resources is very much visible. As suggested by some, conduct technical training sessions during working hours, and as soft skills sessions can be made really interesting, they can be conducted in the morning time, extending the work time to the normal timeline. This would also help women who have problems reaching home late, to avail cab facilities, if given in your company rather than managing on their own.
Furthermore, I believe that rather than keeping trainings on holidays (which everyone complains about), they should be held before working hours (soft skills), and not 3 days a week for one hour each day. Instead, finish it in one day, reduce the lunchtime, and extend working hours for 2 days to recover the production loss.
Regards
From India, Delhi
Acknowledge(0)Amend(0)Looking for something specific? - Join & Be Part Of Our Community and get connected with the right people who can help. Our AI-powered platform provides real-time fact-checking, peer-reviewed insights, and a vast historical knowledge base to support your search.
No more working till late hours.doc
Working Hours.pdf