Dear All,
I want to set a rule in the procedure because an employee, who is an Executive Assistant to the Sales Director, wants to pursue her MBA in HR. She had already mentioned this to the director during the interview, and he accepted since he thought the classes would be at 6:30.
The employee did not inform the director that the classes had started and was leaving the premises by 5:00 p.m on a daily basis.
If the employee is asked to discontinue the classes, then she will quit working with the company, and she is a valuable resource for us.
From her perspective, she came to this company for the HR Executive interview (she has previous experience in recruitment in consultancy). The next day, they chose me instead of her for the HR Executive position and offered her the job of an Executive Assistant, which involves understanding the workings of the company. She was excited about this and hence accepted the role, but now she is performing the duties of a Sales Coordinator.
I need to know how to write a rule so that this situation does not set a precedent for other employees to follow.
From India, Mumbai
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1I want to set a rule in the procedure because an employee, who is an Executive Assistant to the Sales Director, wants to pursue her MBA in HR. She had already mentioned this to the director during the interview, and he accepted since he thought the classes would be at 6:30.
The employee did not inform the director that the classes had started and was leaving the premises by 5:00 p.m on a daily basis.
If the employee is asked to discontinue the classes, then she will quit working with the company, and she is a valuable resource for us.
From her perspective, she came to this company for the HR Executive interview (she has previous experience in recruitment in consultancy). The next day, they chose me instead of her for the HR Executive position and offered her the job of an Executive Assistant, which involves understanding the workings of the company. She was excited about this and hence accepted the role, but now she is performing the duties of a Sales Coordinator.
I need to know how to write a rule so that this situation does not set a precedent for other employees to follow.
From India, Mumbai
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Having clear-cut JDs communicated to the candidate would help. It is also a very common practice to check for fitment in other vacancies if the intended vacancy is filled up.
Additionally, your organization would need to make its KRAs very specific so that no EA is made to do a job beyond the scope of his/her profile. This grievance wouldn't probably have been there if the employee was not made to work as a sales coordinator.
You should not allow the employee to leave early since it sets a bad precedence. Therefore, it's better to let her go, as there were mistakes on the part of the interviewer, who assumed about the timing, and the candidate, who did not specify the timing.
From India, Pune
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Additionally, your organization would need to make its KRAs very specific so that no EA is made to do a job beyond the scope of his/her profile. This grievance wouldn't probably have been there if the employee was not made to work as a sales coordinator.
You should not allow the employee to leave early since it sets a bad precedence. Therefore, it's better to let her go, as there were mistakes on the part of the interviewer, who assumed about the timing, and the candidate, who did not specify the timing.
From India, Pune
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Hi Tina,
I completely agree with RR's comments. It is a mistake on the part of the employee that she did not mention at what time she would have to leave for her classes and whether the company would be ready to accommodate such a request. The person should have communicated this at the time of the interview if she did mention the evening classes. Setting a wrong precedence might occur if you allow her to leave 1.5 hours early every day. Others might also demand and follow this.
Clear job descriptions should be written and communicated to everyone for the respective position. The responsibilities should have also been shared at the time of the interview, and Key Result Areas (KRAs) should be set after the person joins.
Regards,
Niki
From India, Pune
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I completely agree with RR's comments. It is a mistake on the part of the employee that she did not mention at what time she would have to leave for her classes and whether the company would be ready to accommodate such a request. The person should have communicated this at the time of the interview if she did mention the evening classes. Setting a wrong precedence might occur if you allow her to leave 1.5 hours early every day. Others might also demand and follow this.
Clear job descriptions should be written and communicated to everyone for the respective position. The responsibilities should have also been shared at the time of the interview, and Key Result Areas (KRAs) should be set after the person joins.
Regards,
Niki
From India, Pune
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Thanks RR and Niki,
Well, I had suggested the same (i.e., to give in her resignation) to the employee when she was fretting over her role as a sales coordinator. But now, as an HR professional, I can't ask someone to leave the organization since even that would set a precedent and employees might start taking my advice to leave the company.
From India, Mumbai
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Well, I had suggested the same (i.e., to give in her resignation) to the employee when she was fretting over her role as a sales coordinator. But now, as an HR professional, I can't ask someone to leave the organization since even that would set a precedent and employees might start taking my advice to leave the company.
From India, Mumbai
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I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by this posting. In any company, in all the departments, you make policies and then you also have some exceptions to the rule. In this case, you have office timings, and all the employees are expected to abide by it. However, in certain cases, situations, or circumstances, you can allow an employee to leave early or arrive late for a certain period of time. These are exceptions to the rule. These exceptions cannot be a right of an employee, but based on the workload and prior permission by the department head, some people are given certain privileges.
I think you too can have a similar process in the company.
Thanks and Regards
From India, Mumbai
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I think you too can have a similar process in the company.
Thanks and Regards
From India, Mumbai
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I will go with Sanjeev. I do not see any fault of the employee. From her part, she informed that she is pursuing an MBA, and that was her job to inform. It was the job of the interviewer to probe and get the specific details. If she had hidden that she is undergoing an MBA course, then it would have been an integrity issue.
What I can gather is the employee is going 1 hour early before office timing. With prior approval, what can be done is she can be asked to come to the office early (provided there is a provision and norms/policies allow).
From India, New Delhi
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What I can gather is the employee is going 1 hour early before office timing. With prior approval, what can be done is she can be asked to come to the office early (provided there is a provision and norms/policies allow).
From India, New Delhi
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How can you suggest an employee to resign? The candidate is correct because it is you and your company that did not frame a proper job description and selected a candidate interested in one field but made them work in another. And now, very casually, you are asking the candidate to resign.
Another thing is, you should first consider a situation before making any rules, always encourage employees to further their qualifications, and understand which situations are exceptional and need consideration. After all, it's a matter of common sense. 😜 Don't worry; with time, you will learn. 😏
From India, Pune
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Another thing is, you should first consider a situation before making any rules, always encourage employees to further their qualifications, and understand which situations are exceptional and need consideration. After all, it's a matter of common sense. 😜 Don't worry; with time, you will learn. 😏
From India, Pune
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Hi Tina,
From being selected for HR-Executive to Executive Assistant to Sales Coordinator!!! Will she stay with the organization? Do you want to implement a policy or a rule? Do you not want to set a precedent for leaving early or for pursuing a course?
Some organizations have an education policy for employees. This specifies what type of courses employees can undertake, whether leave is given for exams, and if permission is granted for contact classes if they interfere with working hours.
Are you interested in grooming this employee? You have mentioned that she is a valuable resource. If so, perhaps you can establish something like working for a specific period, such as 2 or 3 years, and allowing her to take that one hour off.
Geetha
From India, Coimbatore
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From being selected for HR-Executive to Executive Assistant to Sales Coordinator!!! Will she stay with the organization? Do you want to implement a policy or a rule? Do you not want to set a precedent for leaving early or for pursuing a course?
Some organizations have an education policy for employees. This specifies what type of courses employees can undertake, whether leave is given for exams, and if permission is granted for contact classes if they interfere with working hours.
Are you interested in grooming this employee? You have mentioned that she is a valuable resource. If so, perhaps you can establish something like working for a specific period, such as 2 or 3 years, and allowing her to take that one hour off.
Geetha
From India, Coimbatore
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The abnormal issue. Both the employee and employer are in a fix. One has done her duty to inform the organization before joining, and now the organization wants her to work up to office closing hours.
If your organization is small (the boss is nearby and has summary powers), you can retain the employee by offering a 20% cut in her salary with the boss's approval. However, this solution may not be sustainable as she is now a sales coordinator and is undergoing an HR course. She will leave as soon as she gets an optimal opportunity.
From India, Delhi
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If your organization is small (the boss is nearby and has summary powers), you can retain the employee by offering a 20% cut in her salary with the boss's approval. However, this solution may not be sustainable as she is now a sales coordinator and is undergoing an HR course. She will leave as soon as she gets an optimal opportunity.
From India, Delhi
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OR The Boss can ask her to work 1and 1/2 hours earlier...So, total working hours should not be changed... Regards, Deepak Kr. Srivastava Kanpur, UP 09336154871
From India, Calcutta
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From India, Calcutta
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Why are you suggesting that the employee resign from the company's duties when you mentioned that she is a valuable resource to the company?
In this scenario, as also suggested by someone else, the company should offer her a bond to sign, committing to staying with the company for a minimum of 2 years after completing her MBA. Decreasing her salary by any percentage will surely diminish her trust, efficiency, and morale within the company.
Upon completing her MBA in HR, she could be absorbed into the HR department at an appropriate position. If she excels in her role, she will make up for leaving an hour early. Additionally, there are individuals in the organization who occupy their full work hours but contribute little to no value.
From India, Mumbai
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In this scenario, as also suggested by someone else, the company should offer her a bond to sign, committing to staying with the company for a minimum of 2 years after completing her MBA. Decreasing her salary by any percentage will surely diminish her trust, efficiency, and morale within the company.
Upon completing her MBA in HR, she could be absorbed into the HR department at an appropriate position. If she excels in her role, she will make up for leaving an hour early. Additionally, there are individuals in the organization who occupy their full work hours but contribute little to no value.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi,
Many organizations have a policy wherein they fund the education of their employees. In fact, since the lady mentioned that she is likely to pursue an MBA course, she is completely justified in leaving early. What I suggest is that you frame an educational policy for the company where this lady may be asked to sign a bond period or commit to staying in the company post-completion of her course. Since she is an intelligent girl, she may be a good resource to retain. Asking the employee to resign is completely unfair.
From India, Pune
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Many organizations have a policy wherein they fund the education of their employees. In fact, since the lady mentioned that she is likely to pursue an MBA course, she is completely justified in leaving early. What I suggest is that you frame an educational policy for the company where this lady may be asked to sign a bond period or commit to staying in the company post-completion of her course. Since she is an intelligent girl, she may be a good resource to retain. Asking the employee to resign is completely unfair.
From India, Pune
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Hi Tina,
I did my Diploma in Management Studies through a part-time evening course. Whereas, I pursued my Master's degree through a part-time day-release program where my UK employer allowed me to go for half a day a week for three years. This was encouraged, and the company had policies in place for individuals to seek permission.
As Deepak points out above, it is crucial to have policies that allow for exceptions. The attrition rate in some companies is high due to rigid policies and poor selections and placements.
I volunteered to work late on other days to compensate for the time lost or even worked on weekends, although, in the end, it was not necessary.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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I did my Diploma in Management Studies through a part-time evening course. Whereas, I pursued my Master's degree through a part-time day-release program where my UK employer allowed me to go for half a day a week for three years. This was encouraged, and the company had policies in place for individuals to seek permission.
As Deepak points out above, it is crucial to have policies that allow for exceptions. The attrition rate in some companies is high due to rigid policies and poor selections and placements.
I volunteered to work late on other days to compensate for the time lost or even worked on weekends, although, in the end, it was not necessary.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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Hi Tina,
I also agree with the comments of Sanjeev and Ankur. As an HR executive, you cannot ask a person to leave the company. If she wants to pursue her MBA and has already informed you, you may consider changing her office timings for a certain period so that office work does not suffer.
Regards, Jyoti Negi
From India, Delhi
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I also agree with the comments of Sanjeev and Ankur. As an HR executive, you cannot ask a person to leave the company. If she wants to pursue her MBA and has already informed you, you may consider changing her office timings for a certain period so that office work does not suffer.
Regards, Jyoti Negi
From India, Delhi
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Hello Tina:
>I want to set a rule in the rule procedure reason being an employee, who is an Executive Assistant to the Sales Director wants to pursue her MBA in HR which she had already said to the director at the time of interview and he had accepted since he thought the classes will be at 6:30.<
Then the MBA program is not a problem.
Why did the Sales Director think the classes started at 6:30?
>The employee did not inform the director that the classes had started and was leaving the off premises by 5:00 p.m on a daily basis.<
She has early classes five days a week?
How long of a commute does she have to get to class?
>If the employee is asked to discontinue the classes then she will quit working with the company and she is a good resource for us.<
Has the Sales Director talked with her about the problem he has with her schedule?
What upsets the Sales Director the most?
>Her side of the story she came to this company for the interview of HR Executive (She has an previous exp of recruitment in consultancy) which was filled by me the very next day they opted me instead of her and offered her a job of Executive assistant which is to know the working of a company. which excited her and hence joined in but now she is doing the work of Sales Co-ordinator.<
Be sure that your actions are in the best interest of the company and the employee and not in your best interest alone.
>I need to know how do i write a rule so that this working does not become a precedence for other employee to follow.<
Is she not getting her work done?
Is she salaried or hourly?
Can she start her work day earlier?
When I did an Executive MBA Program l had to be out of the office every other Friday for a year and half without a reduction in salary and no overtime. The pay back to the company was huge after just three months.
If you treat this employee poorly, you may not know the impact on employee morale.
From United States, Chelsea
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>I want to set a rule in the rule procedure reason being an employee, who is an Executive Assistant to the Sales Director wants to pursue her MBA in HR which she had already said to the director at the time of interview and he had accepted since he thought the classes will be at 6:30.<
Then the MBA program is not a problem.
Why did the Sales Director think the classes started at 6:30?
>The employee did not inform the director that the classes had started and was leaving the off premises by 5:00 p.m on a daily basis.<
She has early classes five days a week?
How long of a commute does she have to get to class?
>If the employee is asked to discontinue the classes then she will quit working with the company and she is a good resource for us.<
Has the Sales Director talked with her about the problem he has with her schedule?
What upsets the Sales Director the most?
>Her side of the story she came to this company for the interview of HR Executive (She has an previous exp of recruitment in consultancy) which was filled by me the very next day they opted me instead of her and offered her a job of Executive assistant which is to know the working of a company. which excited her and hence joined in but now she is doing the work of Sales Co-ordinator.<
Be sure that your actions are in the best interest of the company and the employee and not in your best interest alone.
>I need to know how do i write a rule so that this working does not become a precedence for other employee to follow.<
Is she not getting her work done?
Is she salaried or hourly?
Can she start her work day earlier?
When I did an Executive MBA Program l had to be out of the office every other Friday for a year and half without a reduction in salary and no overtime. The pay back to the company was huge after just three months.
If you treat this employee poorly, you may not know the impact on employee morale.
From United States, Chelsea
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Thank you, everyone, for your inputs.
Dear Geetha,
I don't want to give precedence to early leaving or employees coming in and stating that they want to pursue qualifications in a field that is of no help to the organization.
Dear Sanjeev,
Since my company is small, there are currently no specific policies in place. I am currently in the process of writing procedures and policies for the company with the help of the director. In fact, the company does not even have a written SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) in place for any department, including sales and purchasing, which I am working on establishing.
Dear Deepak,
We cannot require the employee to come in early as it would necessitate having an office boy present an hour early for her, who would not have much work to do since the sales director does not come in at that time. Even if she comes in early, we would have to pay overtime to the office boy, which is a more costly option that the director would not approve. How can I adjust the leave procedure I have drafted for this specific situation?
---
I have corrected the spelling, grammar, and formatting issues in your message while preserving the original meaning and tone. Let me know if you need further assistance!
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Geetha,
I don't want to give precedence to early leaving or employees coming in and stating that they want to pursue qualifications in a field that is of no help to the organization.
Dear Sanjeev,
Since my company is small, there are currently no specific policies in place. I am currently in the process of writing procedures and policies for the company with the help of the director. In fact, the company does not even have a written SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) in place for any department, including sales and purchasing, which I am working on establishing.
Dear Deepak,
We cannot require the employee to come in early as it would necessitate having an office boy present an hour early for her, who would not have much work to do since the sales director does not come in at that time. Even if she comes in early, we would have to pay overtime to the office boy, which is a more costly option that the director would not approve. How can I adjust the leave procedure I have drafted for this specific situation?
---
I have corrected the spelling, grammar, and formatting issues in your message while preserving the original meaning and tone. Let me know if you need further assistance!
From India, Mumbai
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The only good thing about her profile right now is that she is gaining hands-on experience in understanding how every department works, which will be useful for her HR career in the future. That's my viewpoint. I would like to know if I am correct.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear Bob,
The replies to your questions in the same order:
1) He thought the classes were starting at 6:30 since most of the institutes here start around that time.
2) She has classes every day, six days a week.
3) It takes around 15 minutes in a cab.
4) No, the Sales Director has not spoken to the employee, and he is quite upset by the fact that she didn't tell him that the classes started at 5:00 p.m.
5) She is a salaried employee. No, she cannot start her day early.
From India, Mumbai
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The replies to your questions in the same order:
1) He thought the classes were starting at 6:30 since most of the institutes here start around that time.
2) She has classes every day, six days a week.
3) It takes around 15 minutes in a cab.
4) No, the Sales Director has not spoken to the employee, and he is quite upset by the fact that she didn't tell him that the classes started at 5:00 p.m.
5) She is a salaried employee. No, she cannot start her day early.
From India, Mumbai
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Hello Tina:
1) He thought the classes were starting at 6:30 since most of the institutes here start around that time.
What about the other institutes?
Why did the sales manager not inquire about the departure time?
2) She has classes every day, six days a week.
All at 5 PM?
3) It takes around 15 minutes in a cab.
Thanks.
4) No, the sales director has not spoken to the employee, and he is most upset by the fact that she didn't tell him that the classes started at 5:00 PM.
Perhaps she thought that other institutes also started at 5 PM?
Quite often when we make a mistake, we look for others to blame. The sales director forgot to ask a most important question.
5) She is a salaried employee. No, she cannot start her day early.
Thanks. The early departure time, if necessary, is a benefit agreed to by the sales director who should use this as a learning opportunity about how to make a job offer with all issues fully explored.
From United States, Chelsea
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1) He thought the classes were starting at 6:30 since most of the institutes here start around that time.
What about the other institutes?
Why did the sales manager not inquire about the departure time?
2) She has classes every day, six days a week.
All at 5 PM?
3) It takes around 15 minutes in a cab.
Thanks.
4) No, the sales director has not spoken to the employee, and he is most upset by the fact that she didn't tell him that the classes started at 5:00 PM.
Perhaps she thought that other institutes also started at 5 PM?
Quite often when we make a mistake, we look for others to blame. The sales director forgot to ask a most important question.
5) She is a salaried employee. No, she cannot start her day early.
Thanks. The early departure time, if necessary, is a benefit agreed to by the sales director who should use this as a learning opportunity about how to make a job offer with all issues fully explored.
From United States, Chelsea
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