Hi,
I left an MNC a week ago where I only served 5 days instead of a 30-day notice period as my mom was sick, and I had to visit Delhi. Now they are asking me to pay back the recovery amount. Is there any way I can avoid it? I didn't sign anything on stamp paper that is valid in a court of law. Please let me know if there can be any legal action against me?
From India, Howrah
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1I left an MNC a week ago where I only served 5 days instead of a 30-day notice period as my mom was sick, and I had to visit Delhi. Now they are asking me to pay back the recovery amount. Is there any way I can avoid it? I didn't sign anything on stamp paper that is valid in a court of law. Please let me know if there can be any legal action against me?
From India, Howrah
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Mr. Rick Taylor, your company can take legal action against you despite not having signed on stamp paper because you signed the employment agreement paper. You should inform him to wait for 3-4 months before depositing the recovery amount due to financial crisis. Let me know what your company says after that, and then I can provide further suggestions.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Dear Mr. Rick Taylor,
Supposedly, this has become the customary question of "What happens..."
Why don't you stand in the shoes of the employer and understand the loss of business caused due to the brusque way of leaving? I'm not grumbling at this issue, but the way you’ve questioned may infuriate many of our seniors in this forum. As far as my experience is concerned with MNCs, they are very particular about NP. You have to check your appointment letter in detail for the clause on NP and Termination clause in particular.
At an outset, if you are not willing to show this experience or would leave it as a gap, a sufficient reason has to be specified to your next employer. Are you ready for it?
Legally, one can't comment on the liable reasons; however, you may have to "READ" relating to the above-mentioned points in the appointment given to you or while you signed. You may also share such clauses (not mandatorily) to see what our other seniors in this forum have in their wits.
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Supposedly, this has become the customary question of "What happens..."
Why don't you stand in the shoes of the employer and understand the loss of business caused due to the brusque way of leaving? I'm not grumbling at this issue, but the way you’ve questioned may infuriate many of our seniors in this forum. As far as my experience is concerned with MNCs, they are very particular about NP. You have to check your appointment letter in detail for the clause on NP and Termination clause in particular.
At an outset, if you are not willing to show this experience or would leave it as a gap, a sufficient reason has to be specified to your next employer. Are you ready for it?
Legally, one can't comment on the liable reasons; however, you may have to "READ" relating to the above-mentioned points in the appointment given to you or while you signed. You may also share such clauses (not mandatorily) to see what our other seniors in this forum have in their wits.
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Hi Sharmila,
Thanks for replying back. First of all, the way you have pointed out "Why don't you stand in the shoes of the employer" -- (Do I really stand in the shoes of the employer? Why should I?)
Well, the employer should understand my situation too. My mom was sick, and I had to hurry. I guess my mom is more important than me leaving a job. Isn't it so?
Secondly, it is not my intention to offend, upset, or in your words "infuriate" the "seniors" of this forum. I am in a fix and I am looking for a solution, that's it.
I have already been to the PF office and have submitted my PF form. Following which, I am writing an email to my past employer to grant me a time of 3-4 months. When the PF money comes through, I will be able to pay them back. I hope it plays fine.
Thanks again!
From India, Howrah
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Thanks for replying back. First of all, the way you have pointed out "Why don't you stand in the shoes of the employer" -- (Do I really stand in the shoes of the employer? Why should I?)
Well, the employer should understand my situation too. My mom was sick, and I had to hurry. I guess my mom is more important than me leaving a job. Isn't it so?
Secondly, it is not my intention to offend, upset, or in your words "infuriate" the "seniors" of this forum. I am in a fix and I am looking for a solution, that's it.
I have already been to the PF office and have submitted my PF form. Following which, I am writing an email to my past employer to grant me a time of 3-4 months. When the PF money comes through, I will be able to pay them back. I hope it plays fine.
Thanks again!
From India, Howrah
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Mr.Rajkamal Lal I have already done the same as you have asked me ... and I will definitely get in touch with you for your suggestions. Thank you so much .
From India, Howrah
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From India, Howrah
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Dear Rick Taylor,
You need to pay your past employer first. Companies may take legal actions for this kind of behavior. Generally, companies are not willing to wait until your PF amount is dispersed.
With Regards,
Vineet Deshmukh
From India, Yavatmal
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You need to pay your past employer first. Companies may take legal actions for this kind of behavior. Generally, companies are not willing to wait until your PF amount is dispersed.
With Regards,
Vineet Deshmukh
From India, Yavatmal
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Hello,
Every one of us has some genuine reasons to terminate or end our employment.
I can understand your situation well, as your mom (or any of your family members for that matter) fell ill and you were not in the same town to deal with the situation.
However, when you resigned, what reason did you state in your resignation letter?
Another thing is, sometimes we do not feel the need to communicate fully, or we just take things for granted.
As you mentioned that your company has a one-month notice policy and as a result, perhaps you never specified your last working day or requested relieving with immediate effect. (Excuse me if I am wrong here, as most of us do not mention this in our resignation letters.)
The reason I mention this is that when someone resigns, as an employer, one might assume you found a better opportunity and are rushing into it. It is natural to think that way; we are human and cannot always control our feelings.
Now, onto the solution. Write again to the employer stating that you resigned due to your mother's poor health, and when it became serious, you had to leave. Explain that due to the stress, you couldn't complete the proper exit formalities, but you have no intention to abscond. Mention that you are open to discussion and negotiation if possible and offer to provide your mother's medical report to prove the genuineness of the situation. Acknowledge that since you only served 5 days, you are liable to pay for the remaining 25 days' salary and express your willingness to come for a full and final settlement and to collect your relieving cum experience letter as soon as your mother's condition improves. Try to persuade them that handling both situations, work, and personal, in different cities is challenging.
Express your appreciation if they could consider your situation as special and relieve you on a shorter notice to avoid a higher payment burden.
The key is persuasion. They may feel annoyed, but try to put yourself in their shoes; you might also wonder why you weren't informed earlier. It's human nature. I understand your concern that they should also try to understand your situation, but that can only happen if you explain it to them patiently and persistently.
Patience can resolve complex problems. All the best.
From India, Mumbai
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Every one of us has some genuine reasons to terminate or end our employment.
I can understand your situation well, as your mom (or any of your family members for that matter) fell ill and you were not in the same town to deal with the situation.
However, when you resigned, what reason did you state in your resignation letter?
Another thing is, sometimes we do not feel the need to communicate fully, or we just take things for granted.
As you mentioned that your company has a one-month notice policy and as a result, perhaps you never specified your last working day or requested relieving with immediate effect. (Excuse me if I am wrong here, as most of us do not mention this in our resignation letters.)
The reason I mention this is that when someone resigns, as an employer, one might assume you found a better opportunity and are rushing into it. It is natural to think that way; we are human and cannot always control our feelings.
Now, onto the solution. Write again to the employer stating that you resigned due to your mother's poor health, and when it became serious, you had to leave. Explain that due to the stress, you couldn't complete the proper exit formalities, but you have no intention to abscond. Mention that you are open to discussion and negotiation if possible and offer to provide your mother's medical report to prove the genuineness of the situation. Acknowledge that since you only served 5 days, you are liable to pay for the remaining 25 days' salary and express your willingness to come for a full and final settlement and to collect your relieving cum experience letter as soon as your mother's condition improves. Try to persuade them that handling both situations, work, and personal, in different cities is challenging.
Express your appreciation if they could consider your situation as special and relieve you on a shorter notice to avoid a higher payment burden.
The key is persuasion. They may feel annoyed, but try to put yourself in their shoes; you might also wonder why you weren't informed earlier. It's human nature. I understand your concern that they should also try to understand your situation, but that can only happen if you explain it to them patiently and persistently.
Patience can resolve complex problems. All the best.
From India, Mumbai
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Very interesting point of view. Why should I stand in the shoes of my employer? Why should I care about what he thinks or the problems he has to face because of me? Well, then why should the employer bother to understand or help you? Did you tell them your mother was sick in Delhi? Did you ask for emergency leave (even if unpaid)? I am sure any MNC HR team would have granted it immediately. Perhaps they would have even got you tickets too.
From the wording of your post, it seems you resigned and then suddenly left saying your mother is sick. If that was the case, no one would have believed you. If it was due to your mother's sickness, surely you would have talked to HR and your reporting head, asking for time off, offering to come back, and do whatever handover is required, providing assistance on the phone, etc., to the new person taking over whenever they need to know about the work you have done. The employer will be as sympathetic as you appear genuine and helpful.
From India, Mumbai
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From the wording of your post, it seems you resigned and then suddenly left saying your mother is sick. If that was the case, no one would have believed you. If it was due to your mother's sickness, surely you would have talked to HR and your reporting head, asking for time off, offering to come back, and do whatever handover is required, providing assistance on the phone, etc., to the new person taking over whenever they need to know about the work you have done. The employer will be as sympathetic as you appear genuine and helpful.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Rick,
It seems I found a solution to my question that I posted yesterday: Whether we can withdraw our PF without F&F even if the employer does not stamp or sign our PF forms. Do we need to get our forms signed from someone else then?
In response to Sharmila's post, you mentioned that you "I have already been to the PF office and have submitted my PF form following which I am writing a mail to my past employer to grant me a time of 3-4 months when the PF money comes through, I will be able to pay them back... I hope it plays fine. Can you please advise if you were trying to withdraw the PF for the same company you resigned from? If you did not complete your Full & final, how can we apply for the PF? Please confirm so that I can also go ahead and do the same since I will be unable to do my F&F due to financial crisis right now and need the PF amount urgently.
Thanks in advance!
From United States
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It seems I found a solution to my question that I posted yesterday: Whether we can withdraw our PF without F&F even if the employer does not stamp or sign our PF forms. Do we need to get our forms signed from someone else then?
In response to Sharmila's post, you mentioned that you "I have already been to the PF office and have submitted my PF form following which I am writing a mail to my past employer to grant me a time of 3-4 months when the PF money comes through, I will be able to pay them back... I hope it plays fine. Can you please advise if you were trying to withdraw the PF for the same company you resigned from? If you did not complete your Full & final, how can we apply for the PF? Please confirm so that I can also go ahead and do the same since I will be unable to do my F&F due to financial crisis right now and need the PF amount urgently.
Thanks in advance!
From United States
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Hello Dear,
I am very surprised to see this type of argument here….
I am just sharing my view on this topic the question which is Ricktylor asked it can be rooted any way but he need suggestions from members who can share their knowledge.
And also Mr. Ricktylor asked question and got influences in a very very short time That’s Great !
From India, Mumbai
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I am very surprised to see this type of argument here….
I am just sharing my view on this topic the question which is Ricktylor asked it can be rooted any way but he need suggestions from members who can share their knowledge.
And also Mr. Ricktylor asked question and got influences in a very very short time That’s Great !
From India, Mumbai
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Hello All,
Greetings of the day!
I didn’t understand what is going on.
Employee and employer are bind with a legal document (Employment contract/Appointment letter/service agreement). So you should check the notice period clause and abide as mentioned in it. It’s the wish of the employer that it can wave out or else you have to go as per the clause mentioned. Discuss with the employer and settle the issue.
From employer side: this kind of act should not be tolerated by the employer. HR is the one who take the stress. Have you ever imagined how much a company will suffer losses if you terminate the services instantly? Employer should drag this kind of employees to the court.
NOTHING PERSONAL
Regards,
Shaikh Abedeen
HR Professional
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Greetings of the day!
I didn’t understand what is going on.
Employee and employer are bind with a legal document (Employment contract/Appointment letter/service agreement). So you should check the notice period clause and abide as mentioned in it. It’s the wish of the employer that it can wave out or else you have to go as per the clause mentioned. Discuss with the employer and settle the issue.
From employer side: this kind of act should not be tolerated by the employer. HR is the one who take the stress. Have you ever imagined how much a company will suffer losses if you terminate the services instantly? Employer should drag this kind of employees to the court.
NOTHING PERSONAL
Regards,
Shaikh Abedeen
HR Professional
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Abedeen,
From your post,
I wish to ask if you are aware that no employer can force an employee to work for his company (even if they have signed a bond or service agreement or whatever you wish to call it.)
Secondly, if the employer will drag such employees into court, the employer ought to be ready with enough reasons to make the bond viable.
Thirdly, there is no necessity to pay the bond amount (amount quoted in the bond) by the employee. Such service bonds are viable only till the extent of the training cost incurred by the employee. As far as opportunity cost is concerned, unless you risk you are not to progress. If you stop hiring people just out of fear that they may leave you tomorrow will you succeed? Success is not achieved by pushing others back and pulling them down. It comes when we hone our skills so that we can push ourselves ahead of others.
Again there is a difference between estimated loss and penalty. If employers drag such employees to the court, the court allows payment of only estimated loss and not penalty.
Meaning to say that if the company writes in bond that
"You are bound to serve for a minimum period of 3 years (for example). If you break the bond you are liable to pay an amount of 3 lacs rupees."
OR
"You are bound to serve for a minimum period of 3 years (for example). If you break the bond you are liable to pay all the amount you earned till the time of your resignation"
Such are penalty. A reasonable amount quoted can be considered as estimated loss. It would be left to the court to reach to the conclusion on stating beyond which amount would it be considered a penalty.
I hope I clear your doubts. And if incase you feel I am falling short in experience to convince you, here I share the attributions to convince and put forth my points.
Is Employment Bond is valid in India
M/S. Sicpa India Limited vs Shri Manas Pratim Deb on 17 November, 2011
venghatsrinivas: Is employment Bond valid in india?
I am sure you would argue that this is regarding bonded labor, but would still like to share
Public Union For Civil Liberties vs State Of Tamil Nadu And Ors. on 15 October, 2012
From India, Mumbai
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From your post,
I wish to ask if you are aware that no employer can force an employee to work for his company (even if they have signed a bond or service agreement or whatever you wish to call it.)
Secondly, if the employer will drag such employees into court, the employer ought to be ready with enough reasons to make the bond viable.
Thirdly, there is no necessity to pay the bond amount (amount quoted in the bond) by the employee. Such service bonds are viable only till the extent of the training cost incurred by the employee. As far as opportunity cost is concerned, unless you risk you are not to progress. If you stop hiring people just out of fear that they may leave you tomorrow will you succeed? Success is not achieved by pushing others back and pulling them down. It comes when we hone our skills so that we can push ourselves ahead of others.
Again there is a difference between estimated loss and penalty. If employers drag such employees to the court, the court allows payment of only estimated loss and not penalty.
Meaning to say that if the company writes in bond that
"You are bound to serve for a minimum period of 3 years (for example). If you break the bond you are liable to pay an amount of 3 lacs rupees."
OR
"You are bound to serve for a minimum period of 3 years (for example). If you break the bond you are liable to pay all the amount you earned till the time of your resignation"
Such are penalty. A reasonable amount quoted can be considered as estimated loss. It would be left to the court to reach to the conclusion on stating beyond which amount would it be considered a penalty.
I hope I clear your doubts. And if incase you feel I am falling short in experience to convince you, here I share the attributions to convince and put forth my points.
Is Employment Bond is valid in India
M/S. Sicpa India Limited vs Shri Manas Pratim Deb on 17 November, 2011
venghatsrinivas: Is employment Bond valid in india?
I am sure you would argue that this is regarding bonded labor, but would still like to share
Public Union For Civil Liberties vs State Of Tamil Nadu And Ors. on 15 October, 2012
From India, Mumbai
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Hello Ankita,
We are discussing the notice period pay, and we are not discussing employee bonds, so your post is irrelevant to this discussion. I am well aware of employment law and keen to learn more.
Thanks for your post regarding employee bonds. No employer can force an employee to work for its company as this would be a violation of our fundamental rights.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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We are discussing the notice period pay, and we are not discussing employee bonds, so your post is irrelevant to this discussion. I am well aware of employment law and keen to learn more.
Thanks for your post regarding employee bonds. No employer can force an employee to work for its company as this would be a violation of our fundamental rights.
From India, Bhubaneswar
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GST ON RECOVERY OF UNSERVICED NOTICE PERIOD.docx