Dear all,
I am working in the HR Department of a Steel Industry. Our company is in the process of setting up a new 4 MT steel plant, which includes all main units such as Coke ovens, Blast furnace, steel melting shop, Mills, etc.
Please guide me on the manpower assessment system/methodology/norms. A case study on this topic would also be very helpful.
Thank you.
From India, Bhilai
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I am working in the HR Department of a Steel Industry. Our company is in the process of setting up a new 4 MT steel plant, which includes all main units such as Coke ovens, Blast furnace, steel melting shop, Mills, etc.
Please guide me on the manpower assessment system/methodology/norms. A case study on this topic would also be very helpful.
Thank you.
From India, Bhilai
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Manpower assessment can be done based on the competencies required by each job role and the individual. Gap analysis can be done for the required and the actual competency. Competency can be analyzed from the job description of the new plant.
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From India, Hosur
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I have corrected the spelling and grammar errors in the text provided. I also ensured proper paragraph formatting with a single line break between paragraphs. The meaning of the original message has been preserved.
From India, Hosur
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Dear dhdurg,
I think you are underestimating the assignment, and you should visit an integrated steel plant to understand the scale of operation.
A steel plant is considered the "mother of all industries" due to its vastness and complexity, and its products are subsequently used in setting up other industries. All Indian integrated steel plants have initially started with a capacity of 1 MTPA. Over the years, they have enhanced their capacities to 2.5 MTPA and then 4 MTPA. Despite efforts by Mittal and POSCO in the last four years to launch 4 MTPA greenfield projects, they are yet to acquire land for them.
A 4 MTPA ISP with its residential township would be the size of a small town. It includes hundreds of departments, kilometers of rail/structurals/long and flat product rolling mills, hundreds of kilometers of railway tracks, and at least 20,000 employees managing the plant and auxiliary services like the Oxygen Plant, Power Plant, Water Treatment Plant, Rail Transport, Acetylene Plant, Compressor & Blowing Station, etc.
The study and assessment of manpower requirements are not conducted by a single person, especially not by an HR person. Renowned management consultancies or dedicated teams of Industrial Engineers, in consultation with equipment manufacturers like Thyzoprom (Russian co.), Thyssen-Krupp (German co.), etc., handle this task. They charge millions of dollars for this assignment, which typically takes at least three months.
It is impractical to provide detailed assistance through this thread. I recommend discussing the matter again with your seniors and the management.
I hope the above information is helpful to you. If you still face difficulties, please feel free to write back.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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1446I think you are underestimating the assignment, and you should visit an integrated steel plant to understand the scale of operation.
A steel plant is considered the "mother of all industries" due to its vastness and complexity, and its products are subsequently used in setting up other industries. All Indian integrated steel plants have initially started with a capacity of 1 MTPA. Over the years, they have enhanced their capacities to 2.5 MTPA and then 4 MTPA. Despite efforts by Mittal and POSCO in the last four years to launch 4 MTPA greenfield projects, they are yet to acquire land for them.
A 4 MTPA ISP with its residential township would be the size of a small town. It includes hundreds of departments, kilometers of rail/structurals/long and flat product rolling mills, hundreds of kilometers of railway tracks, and at least 20,000 employees managing the plant and auxiliary services like the Oxygen Plant, Power Plant, Water Treatment Plant, Rail Transport, Acetylene Plant, Compressor & Blowing Station, etc.
The study and assessment of manpower requirements are not conducted by a single person, especially not by an HR person. Renowned management consultancies or dedicated teams of Industrial Engineers, in consultation with equipment manufacturers like Thyzoprom (Russian co.), Thyssen-Krupp (German co.), etc., handle this task. They charge millions of dollars for this assignment, which typically takes at least three months.
It is impractical to provide detailed assistance through this thread. I recommend discussing the matter again with your seniors and the management.
I hope the above information is helpful to you. If you still face difficulties, please feel free to write back.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi Raj,
Thanks a lot for your professional reply!
Well, I have quoted one of your statements. I would like to know what role HR can play in manpower planning. As per you, I suppose manpower planning is a highly technical job to be done mostly by Industrial Engineers, Production Managers, etc., and not by HR.
I think HR can play a role in terms of skills available, gap analysis as per future requirements, market benchmark for compensation to do financial budgeting, etc.
Please correct me if I am wrong and share your views.
Regards,
Manish
From India, Nagpur
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Thanks a lot for your professional reply!
Well, I have quoted one of your statements. I would like to know what role HR can play in manpower planning. As per you, I suppose manpower planning is a highly technical job to be done mostly by Industrial Engineers, Production Managers, etc., and not by HR.
I think HR can play a role in terms of skills available, gap analysis as per future requirements, market benchmark for compensation to do financial budgeting, etc.
Please correct me if I am wrong and share your views.
Regards,
Manish
From India, Nagpur
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Dear Manish,
Mr. Raj Kumar Hansdah has said that "The study and assessment of manpower requirements is not done by a single person, and that too by an HR person. It is done by renowned management consultancies or a dedicated team of Industrial Engineers in consultation with equipment manufacturers like..."
HR can be a part of the team that decides on manpower planning. Secondly, if HR has a technical background, it will be easier for HR to understand the technical aspects of the job. Involvement of HR in manpower planning will help them in framing recruitment plans as well. HR can study the jobs and decide on the competencies required for the job.
Ok...
DVD
From India, Bangalore
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Mr. Raj Kumar Hansdah has said that "The study and assessment of manpower requirements is not done by a single person, and that too by an HR person. It is done by renowned management consultancies or a dedicated team of Industrial Engineers in consultation with equipment manufacturers like..."
HR can be a part of the team that decides on manpower planning. Secondly, if HR has a technical background, it will be easier for HR to understand the technical aspects of the job. Involvement of HR in manpower planning will help them in framing recruitment plans as well. HR can study the jobs and decide on the competencies required for the job.
Ok...
DVD
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Mr. Dinesh Diwekar,
Thank you very much for explaining the query raised. Yes, HR is definitely a part of the team, but it is the Industrial Engineering experts who lead the team as they know the process, technology, and can study the man-hours requirements at the technical level required and for which work spots.
They are the people who will pass on this information after calculating the shifts, relievers, leave reserve required, etc., to the HR people in terms of Manpower requirements - X nos. B.Tech with y years of experience in Z industries; X1 nos. of Engg. Diploma or ITI with y1 years of experience in z1 industries, etc., etc.
I appreciate your post considering that it takes years of managerial experience in a diversified field to even appreciate the manpower requirements of a gigantic greenfield manufacturing plant.
Dear Manish Sawankar,
I appreciate your enthusiasm and inquisitiveness, but please DO NOT QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT and take cognizance of just a single sentence, in isolation.
While making that statement, I was not referring to the "MANPOWER PLANNING" activities which are well known to all experienced HR professionals and are done in a routine manner and simply comprise Forecasting the manpower based on superannuation, retention rate, likely requirements based on other factors, etc.
What I meant was much broader and deeper. I wish you had given some detail about yourself like:
whether you are from a manufacturing background and your experience in the HR field.
I was referring to the manpower requirements of a greenfield Integrated Steel Plant of 4 million tonnes capacity.
I'll try to make you understand the magnitude of the assignment. In India, there are just a handful of ISPs and all started with capacities of 1 Million Tonnes or less, and for which whole townships like Jamshedpur, Bhilai, Bokaro, Rourkela, Salem, Vizag, Burnpur, etc., were set up.
If you are not from the manufacturing sector or have never visited an integrated steel plant, it would be difficult to even imagine the manpower requirement and its assessment.
Iron and steel manufacturing is a continuous process, and there are various technologies available, each having its own cost (in millions of dollars) and the payoff is either quality, reduced cycle time, lesser wastage, energy efficiency, or most importantly MANPOWER COST.
Thus, for the same unit of manufactured product quantity, manpower required will be different depending on the technology and process used. It is a vast and specialized field. For this purpose, an HR professional, however best and experienced he is, CAN NEVER MAKE A MANPOWER ASSESSMENT STUDY, on his own single-handedly.
For example: Let us take a single Blast Furnace (A 4 MT plant will have 5 to 7 Blast Furnaces). Can you estimate the manpower requirements?
Can you say how many operatives at what level will be required to function at which work spots? What should be their competencies, qualification, experience, etc.? This is just a single sample question.
Let us take an easy example. In steel plants, at any time about 60 locos (locomotive/trains) are employed for the movement of hot steel ingots from Steel Melting Shops/Converter "Shops"; hot metal (molten iron) from Blast Furnaces, Moving Blooms and Billets from Continuous Casting "shops", moving finished rails (these days they are manufacturing almost a km long rails), plates, structurals, etc., not to speak of raw materials like iron ore, limestone, etc.
Can you, with your best knowledge in HR, assess the manpower requirements of the Loco team for each loco - how many Engine Drivers, their assistants, etc. - what will be their qualifications and experience? What about the Trackmans who change tracks, signals, gates, etc.?
Are you aware that in a Typical Steel Plant, there can be more than two thousand different designations for employees, each with its own JD, qualification, competencies required??
If the above sounds unfamiliar, I shall try to give you more relevant examples if you can tell me in which industry you work. Apart from the Iron & steel industry, I am familiar with Aluminium and Cement industries too. Please also appreciate the fact that there is more to HR than just what one reads in a B-school textbook or discusses with one's peers and colleagues.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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Thank you very much for explaining the query raised. Yes, HR is definitely a part of the team, but it is the Industrial Engineering experts who lead the team as they know the process, technology, and can study the man-hours requirements at the technical level required and for which work spots.
They are the people who will pass on this information after calculating the shifts, relievers, leave reserve required, etc., to the HR people in terms of Manpower requirements - X nos. B.Tech with y years of experience in Z industries; X1 nos. of Engg. Diploma or ITI with y1 years of experience in z1 industries, etc., etc.
I appreciate your post considering that it takes years of managerial experience in a diversified field to even appreciate the manpower requirements of a gigantic greenfield manufacturing plant.
Dear Manish Sawankar,
I appreciate your enthusiasm and inquisitiveness, but please DO NOT QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT and take cognizance of just a single sentence, in isolation.
While making that statement, I was not referring to the "MANPOWER PLANNING" activities which are well known to all experienced HR professionals and are done in a routine manner and simply comprise Forecasting the manpower based on superannuation, retention rate, likely requirements based on other factors, etc.
What I meant was much broader and deeper. I wish you had given some detail about yourself like:
whether you are from a manufacturing background and your experience in the HR field.
I was referring to the manpower requirements of a greenfield Integrated Steel Plant of 4 million tonnes capacity.
I'll try to make you understand the magnitude of the assignment. In India, there are just a handful of ISPs and all started with capacities of 1 Million Tonnes or less, and for which whole townships like Jamshedpur, Bhilai, Bokaro, Rourkela, Salem, Vizag, Burnpur, etc., were set up.
If you are not from the manufacturing sector or have never visited an integrated steel plant, it would be difficult to even imagine the manpower requirement and its assessment.
Iron and steel manufacturing is a continuous process, and there are various technologies available, each having its own cost (in millions of dollars) and the payoff is either quality, reduced cycle time, lesser wastage, energy efficiency, or most importantly MANPOWER COST.
Thus, for the same unit of manufactured product quantity, manpower required will be different depending on the technology and process used. It is a vast and specialized field. For this purpose, an HR professional, however best and experienced he is, CAN NEVER MAKE A MANPOWER ASSESSMENT STUDY, on his own single-handedly.
For example: Let us take a single Blast Furnace (A 4 MT plant will have 5 to 7 Blast Furnaces). Can you estimate the manpower requirements?
Can you say how many operatives at what level will be required to function at which work spots? What should be their competencies, qualification, experience, etc.? This is just a single sample question.
Let us take an easy example. In steel plants, at any time about 60 locos (locomotive/trains) are employed for the movement of hot steel ingots from Steel Melting Shops/Converter "Shops"; hot metal (molten iron) from Blast Furnaces, Moving Blooms and Billets from Continuous Casting "shops", moving finished rails (these days they are manufacturing almost a km long rails), plates, structurals, etc., not to speak of raw materials like iron ore, limestone, etc.
Can you, with your best knowledge in HR, assess the manpower requirements of the Loco team for each loco - how many Engine Drivers, their assistants, etc. - what will be their qualifications and experience? What about the Trackmans who change tracks, signals, gates, etc.?
Are you aware that in a Typical Steel Plant, there can be more than two thousand different designations for employees, each with its own JD, qualification, competencies required??
If the above sounds unfamiliar, I shall try to give you more relevant examples if you can tell me in which industry you work. Apart from the Iron & steel industry, I am familiar with Aluminium and Cement industries too. Please also appreciate the fact that there is more to HR than just what one reads in a B-school textbook or discusses with one's peers and colleagues.
Regards.
From India, Delhi
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Hi, Mr. Raj,
Thank you for your detailed answer.
I have 6 years of experience in HR, with 1.9 years specifically in manufacturing. Currently, I am working at a startup IT company.
In my previous manufacturing role, the manpower planning process involved receiving a file from the head office to be circulated to all HODs. Each HOD would then fill in their manpower requirements and send it back to the head office. Based on my understanding, manpower would only be sanctioned based on financial (budget) considerations. However, I acknowledge that my understanding may be limited.
In my current IT company, manpower deployment is entirely dependent on the client, especially for projects based on the Time & Materials (T&M) model. Resources are deployed as per client demand and sanction.
Your extensive experience in a large company is truly impressive, something I have not yet experienced as I have mainly worked in companies with less than 100 employees.
I am keen to understand the role of HR in manpower planning and other functions across different industries.
I kindly request your continued guidance and sharing of your experiences and knowledge to help us understand the broader aspects of HR.
Thank you once again!
Manish
From India, Nagpur
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Thank you for your detailed answer.
I have 6 years of experience in HR, with 1.9 years specifically in manufacturing. Currently, I am working at a startup IT company.
In my previous manufacturing role, the manpower planning process involved receiving a file from the head office to be circulated to all HODs. Each HOD would then fill in their manpower requirements and send it back to the head office. Based on my understanding, manpower would only be sanctioned based on financial (budget) considerations. However, I acknowledge that my understanding may be limited.
In my current IT company, manpower deployment is entirely dependent on the client, especially for projects based on the Time & Materials (T&M) model. Resources are deployed as per client demand and sanction.
Your extensive experience in a large company is truly impressive, something I have not yet experienced as I have mainly worked in companies with less than 100 employees.
I am keen to understand the role of HR in manpower planning and other functions across different industries.
I kindly request your continued guidance and sharing of your experiences and knowledge to help us understand the broader aspects of HR.
Thank you once again!
Manish
From India, Nagpur
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Dear Manish,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, the core principles of HRM may be similar across industries; however, there is immense diversity in the application and practice of different aspects in different industries (ranging from manufacturing and infrastructures to services such as IT, Education, Hospitality, Health services, etc.) and in different stages of business (like initial, growth, maturity, decline phases).
As HR professionals, we should highlight these diversities of HRM applications for professional development and excellence.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for your reply. Yes, the core principles of HRM may be similar across industries; however, there is immense diversity in the application and practice of different aspects in different industries (ranging from manufacturing and infrastructures to services such as IT, Education, Hospitality, Health services, etc.) and in different stages of business (like initial, growth, maturity, decline phases).
As HR professionals, we should highlight these diversities of HRM applications for professional development and excellence.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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Dear all,
I wonder where dhdurg is!! He does not seem to have responded after raising the question. As expected, Raj Kumar Hansdah (RKH) has given a sound and detailed response. I am not an HR expert but have worked as an Industrial Engineer for over 10 years before moving to academia (you can see my profile at).
I did not understand what MT meant, as the person was asking for manpower plans for a new steel plant. But after reading RKH's response, I just searched the web to see if I could find some info. The following page shows the enormity of the task as well explained by RKH.
[Tata Steel to treble capacity to 21 mt-Steel-Ind'l Goods / Svs-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times](http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/indl-goods-/-svs/steel/Tata-Steel-to-treble-capacity-to-21-mt/articleshow/6316836.cms)
Found at
[Google](http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=4+MT+steel+plan t&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&o q=&gs_rfai=&fp=b880e0c34638eae)
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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I wonder where dhdurg is!! He does not seem to have responded after raising the question. As expected, Raj Kumar Hansdah (RKH) has given a sound and detailed response. I am not an HR expert but have worked as an Industrial Engineer for over 10 years before moving to academia (you can see my profile at).
I did not understand what MT meant, as the person was asking for manpower plans for a new steel plant. But after reading RKH's response, I just searched the web to see if I could find some info. The following page shows the enormity of the task as well explained by RKH.
[Tata Steel to treble capacity to 21 mt-Steel-Ind'l Goods / Svs-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times](http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/indl-goods-/-svs/steel/Tata-Steel-to-treble-capacity-to-21-mt/articleshow/6316836.cms)
Found at
[Google](http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=4+MT+steel+plan t&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&o q=&gs_rfai=&fp=b880e0c34638eae)
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
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