Hi all,
In our company, we used to sign a bond for 2 years. Everyone has signed. Now, one guy wants to quit his job (he is moving to Singapore it seems). The notice period is 3 months, but he gave his resignation letter last week (Oct 9, 07) and is now asking to be relieved with experience letters, a relieving order, etc., within a week (Oct 15, 07). The Project Leader is supporting him, and as HR personnel (myself and our company HR Manager), we couldn't do anything due to a lot of internal politics.
Guide me on what to do now. Shall we give him the relieving order and experience certificate, or should we ask him to continue the job?
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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10In our company, we used to sign a bond for 2 years. Everyone has signed. Now, one guy wants to quit his job (he is moving to Singapore it seems). The notice period is 3 months, but he gave his resignation letter last week (Oct 9, 07) and is now asking to be relieved with experience letters, a relieving order, etc., within a week (Oct 15, 07). The Project Leader is supporting him, and as HR personnel (myself and our company HR Manager), we couldn't do anything due to a lot of internal politics.
Guide me on what to do now. Shall we give him the relieving order and experience certificate, or should we ask him to continue the job?
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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Look, don't let employees rename HR as butcher. The project lead is supporting him, and the employee is going to join another company. Wish him all the best and put up a special approval/note and relieve him. The HR can always put up special notes/approvals; these are used when you have to break a company policy. We have used many special notes and approvals, and you can also frame one very easily and take signatures of the project lead, your HR head, and the chief manager.
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From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Hi Arunaa,
As per your company rules, new joining employees should sign a bond for 2 years. I don't know how strongly you have outlined the bond agreement conditions.
As you mentioned, one of your staff is planning to quit the job within three months of joining. Call him for a discussion with you (HR Team) and explain clearly that he has signed a bond requiring his presence in the company for 2 years.
Before that, assess the candidate's attitude, work ability, aggressiveness, etc. If the company perceives that his absence would result in significant loss, talk to him to understand which company he plans to join, the privileges, etc. Offer him extra benefits, onsite opportunities, rewards to retain his attention.
If the candidate does not meet the company's standards and does not seem to cause significant loss, consider termination without providing a Relieving letter or Work certificate (a strict action from HR).
If his PL or PM supports his resignation, document it in an interoffice memo addressed to higher management (CEO, VP, COO, etc.).
HR personnel often face challenges like these from employees. Refrain from providing any documents to him. By not giving him the necessary documents, he will realize the importance of signing the bond. Failure to comply will lead to chaos.
HR professionals are often in challenging situations!
Please respond regarding your decision on this matter.
Regards,
K. Saravana Kumar | HR Executive
From India, Madras
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As per your company rules, new joining employees should sign a bond for 2 years. I don't know how strongly you have outlined the bond agreement conditions.
As you mentioned, one of your staff is planning to quit the job within three months of joining. Call him for a discussion with you (HR Team) and explain clearly that he has signed a bond requiring his presence in the company for 2 years.
Before that, assess the candidate's attitude, work ability, aggressiveness, etc. If the company perceives that his absence would result in significant loss, talk to him to understand which company he plans to join, the privileges, etc. Offer him extra benefits, onsite opportunities, rewards to retain his attention.
If the candidate does not meet the company's standards and does not seem to cause significant loss, consider termination without providing a Relieving letter or Work certificate (a strict action from HR).
If his PL or PM supports his resignation, document it in an interoffice memo addressed to higher management (CEO, VP, COO, etc.).
HR personnel often face challenges like these from employees. Refrain from providing any documents to him. By not giving him the necessary documents, he will realize the importance of signing the bond. Failure to comply will lead to chaos.
HR professionals are often in challenging situations!
Please respond regarding your decision on this matter.
Regards,
K. Saravana Kumar | HR Executive
From India, Madras
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Hi Arunaa, Welcome Arunaa. But, I need a feedback about that guy from your HR side... Reply na!!! Cheers, Saravana
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Hi Saravana,
He is a hardworking guy, and his role is Team Coordinator. He is handling a major role in the project we are involved in. His absence would lead to a significant loss as we would have to hire nearly three persons to replace him. His main demand is for more money; he feels that his salary is very low. However, the PL (Project Lead) is not allowing us to give him a raise. In reality, she should be recommending him for a hike, but she is not doing so. Therefore, he is resigning, and we don't know what to do. He frankly stated that he will not come to the office from tomorrow (Oct 16, 2007).
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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He is a hardworking guy, and his role is Team Coordinator. He is handling a major role in the project we are involved in. His absence would lead to a significant loss as we would have to hire nearly three persons to replace him. His main demand is for more money; he feels that his salary is very low. However, the PL (Project Lead) is not allowing us to give him a raise. In reality, she should be recommending him for a hike, but she is not doing so. Therefore, he is resigning, and we don't know what to do. He frankly stated that he will not come to the office from tomorrow (Oct 16, 2007).
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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Hi Arunaa,
The problem clearly states about the internal politics going on in your company. Please raise a note from the HR Dept. to your higher authority people and get the solution. If his salary demand is reasonable, proceed to make the necessary arrangements. Why am I asking this? He has already been a part of your company/projects and is familiar with the work atmosphere, etc. If you were to hire new resources, it would involve recruitment, induction training, project understanding, getting them accustomed to the regular work, etc., which would be an unnecessary waste of time.
Let's see what your management decides. It's one way of learning experience for us in the HR field.
Good night and move on to other issues!
Cheers!
K. Saravana Kumar | HR Executive
From India, Madras
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The problem clearly states about the internal politics going on in your company. Please raise a note from the HR Dept. to your higher authority people and get the solution. If his salary demand is reasonable, proceed to make the necessary arrangements. Why am I asking this? He has already been a part of your company/projects and is familiar with the work atmosphere, etc. If you were to hire new resources, it would involve recruitment, induction training, project understanding, getting them accustomed to the regular work, etc., which would be an unnecessary waste of time.
Let's see what your management decides. It's one way of learning experience for us in the HR field.
Good night and move on to other issues!
Cheers!
K. Saravana Kumar | HR Executive
From India, Madras
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Hi Saravana,
His salary is very reasonable, but our CEO is in favor of our IT Manager and myself or our HR Manager couldn't do anything. Our management has decided to relieve him from services, and he has been relieved today (Oct 15, 2007) from his duties.
Thanks for your efforts.
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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His salary is very reasonable, but our CEO is in favor of our IT Manager and myself or our HR Manager couldn't do anything. Our management has decided to relieve him from services, and he has been relieved today (Oct 15, 2007) from his duties.
Thanks for your efforts.
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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Hi Saravana,
His salary is very reasonable, but our CEO is in favor of our IT Manager and myself, and our HR Manager couldn't do anything. Our management has decided to relieve him from services, and he has been relieved today from his duties.
Thanks for your efforts.
Thanks with Regards,
Aruna
From India, Madras
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His salary is very reasonable, but our CEO is in favor of our IT Manager and myself, and our HR Manager couldn't do anything. Our management has decided to relieve him from services, and he has been relieved today from his duties.
Thanks for your efforts.
Thanks with Regards,
Aruna
From India, Madras
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Arunaa
THANK GOD, HE IS RELIEVED.
I ALREADY TOLD YOU, AS MENTIONED BY SARAVANAN, YOU WERE GOING TO OVERDO YOUR JOB. BUT I TOLD YOU THERE IS NO NEED TO OVERDO YOUR HR PROFILE. BE HUMAN, AND AT LEAST SHOW SOME HUMAN BEHAVIOR WHICH IS THE "H" IN HR.
I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ACT ON SARAVANAN'S ADVICE AND TERMINATE THE EMPLOYEE OR WHAT. BUT THE IT MANAGER AND OTHERS WHO WERE FAVORABLE ON THE EMPLOYEES' SIDE ARE THE TRUE AND REAL HEROES, NOT YOUR HR DEPARTMENT WHO MAY BE KEEN ON HARASSING THE EMPLOYEE, RESULTING IN THE EMPLOYEE LOSING HIS NEW ASSIGNMENT.
SOMETIMES THINK FROM A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW, NOT AS A COMPANY HR. THINK HUMANLY SOMETIMES...
HOPE IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL NOT REPEAT THIS...
:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
From India, Pune
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THANK GOD, HE IS RELIEVED.
I ALREADY TOLD YOU, AS MENTIONED BY SARAVANAN, YOU WERE GOING TO OVERDO YOUR JOB. BUT I TOLD YOU THERE IS NO NEED TO OVERDO YOUR HR PROFILE. BE HUMAN, AND AT LEAST SHOW SOME HUMAN BEHAVIOR WHICH IS THE "H" IN HR.
I THOUGHT YOU MIGHT ACT ON SARAVANAN'S ADVICE AND TERMINATE THE EMPLOYEE OR WHAT. BUT THE IT MANAGER AND OTHERS WHO WERE FAVORABLE ON THE EMPLOYEES' SIDE ARE THE TRUE AND REAL HEROES, NOT YOUR HR DEPARTMENT WHO MAY BE KEEN ON HARASSING THE EMPLOYEE, RESULTING IN THE EMPLOYEE LOSING HIS NEW ASSIGNMENT.
SOMETIMES THINK FROM A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW, NOT AS A COMPANY HR. THINK HUMANLY SOMETIMES...
HOPE IN THE FUTURE YOU WILL NOT REPEAT THIS...
:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
From India, Pune
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Suppose, if the candidate does not have much experience and does not seem to be a significant loss to the company, terminating him without providing a relieving letter and work certificate is purely harassment of the employee. Dear friend, do not overdo your job. I have mentioned this before. When he has already submitted his resignation and you are planning to terminate him, what message does that convey? If he takes legal action, it will bring disgrace to the HR department and your company. Instead of acting like a butcher, consider a more humane approach.
Isn't that too harsh? 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈
From India, Pune
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Isn't that too harsh? 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈😈
From India, Pune
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He has been relieved and is now part of history. But let us introspect from the right perspective. It is a contract of employment, and due performance of the same should be ensured; otherwise, the very purpose of getting the employee to sign a bond or stipulations in the letter of employment will become meaningless. It will encourage other employees to break the bond and leave at their will, leaving the employer in a lurch.
While unreasonable conditions in the form of bonds should be avoided, reasonable conditions aimed at protecting the interests of the employers must be implemented. No doubt exceptions may be made by the management in suitable or deserving cases. However, as a matter of rule, these exceptions should not set a precedent.
Deepak Thukral
Chandigarh
From India, Chandigarh
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While unreasonable conditions in the form of bonds should be avoided, reasonable conditions aimed at protecting the interests of the employers must be implemented. No doubt exceptions may be made by the management in suitable or deserving cases. However, as a matter of rule, these exceptions should not set a precedent.
Deepak Thukral
Chandigarh
From India, Chandigarh
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Hi! Maybe you can tell him that if you give a notice period of 3 months, which is required in your position, then we are authorized to issue an experience letter and relieving letter. Otherwise, the rules, regulations, and the company's policy do not give us this authority. If the project manager still favors him and has a good hold in the management, you may have no other alternative but to waive off his notice period.
Rohit Khopkar
From India, Mumbai
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Rohit Khopkar
From India, Mumbai
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Hi all,
Thank you so much for all your valuable suggestions. That guy has been relieved, and as HR professionals, we have made arrangements for his experience letter and relieving order, which will be sent to him by post within this week.
Once again, thanks a lot. We do not intend to act as a butcher, Ravi sir.
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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Thank you so much for all your valuable suggestions. That guy has been relieved, and as HR professionals, we have made arrangements for his experience letter and relieving order, which will be sent to him by post within this week.
Once again, thanks a lot. We do not intend to act as a butcher, Ravi sir.
Thanks with Regards,
Arunaa
From India, Madras
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Hi Aruna,
I have just gone through your case. First of all, congratulations on your problem being solved. I am also working in a similar organization, which you may be a part of. However, the HR job is not just about practicing policies or following them; we work with the most critical part of the organization – its true assets, which are the workforce. Our job is to efficiently handle the human aspect of an employee.
At times, you may have to break rules, policies, and go beyond. But remember, always deal with employees with a humane concern and very professionally.
Thanks,
Sangeeta
From India, Pune
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I have just gone through your case. First of all, congratulations on your problem being solved. I am also working in a similar organization, which you may be a part of. However, the HR job is not just about practicing policies or following them; we work with the most critical part of the organization – its true assets, which are the workforce. Our job is to efficiently handle the human aspect of an employee.
At times, you may have to break rules, policies, and go beyond. But remember, always deal with employees with a humane concern and very professionally.
Thanks,
Sangeeta
From India, Pune
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I do not think you have an option but to give the relieving order. But you must have rules for those who leave without 3 months' notice too, right? Even if you do not relieve the employee, they will be leaving. Do the exit interview. It will help... :lol:
Jayashree
From India, Bangalore
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Jayashree
From India, Bangalore
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Hi friends, sirs, and madams,
It's really nice to read this discussion and problem-solving approach. I am a student and I appreciate how we collaborate to address company issues. However, not everything is within our control!! I believe it's essential to also maintain good relations with other staff members, which may sometimes require us to step back.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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It's really nice to read this discussion and problem-solving approach. I am a student and I appreciate how we collaborate to address company issues. However, not everything is within our control!! I believe it's essential to also maintain good relations with other staff members, which may sometimes require us to step back.
Thank you.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi,
The discussion was quite interesting. I do agree that we may not have any other option but to give away the relieving order and experience certificate. Of course, the rules and policies of the company should be to help the employees and not to harass them. Agreed! We have to be flexible also... okay. If you are treating this as a special case, I can understand that as well.
My concern is that ultimately the HR department should not become mere puppets or rubber stamps. We have to be assertive when necessary. If you are wavering all the policies for one person, others might ask for the same in the future! Either he should have been asked to serve the notice period or should have been asked to pay the equivalent amount (if you have any such clause in the letter of offer). Policies should be applicable to all! Otherwise, what is the point of having all the policies on paper?
Rakhee
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The discussion was quite interesting. I do agree that we may not have any other option but to give away the relieving order and experience certificate. Of course, the rules and policies of the company should be to help the employees and not to harass them. Agreed! We have to be flexible also... okay. If you are treating this as a special case, I can understand that as well.
My concern is that ultimately the HR department should not become mere puppets or rubber stamps. We have to be assertive when necessary. If you are wavering all the policies for one person, others might ask for the same in the future! Either he should have been asked to serve the notice period or should have been asked to pay the equivalent amount (if you have any such clause in the letter of offer). Policies should be applicable to all! Otherwise, what is the point of having all the policies on paper?
Rakhee
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Any bond signed by the employer and the employee is not enforceable unless it is registered. Mere signing a bond has no validity. In the present situation of IT/BPO, the attrition rate cannot be controlled; however, it can be minimized by motivation and a good package. Any labor litigation is costly nowadays. It is better to avoid.
From India, Madras
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From India, Madras
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Dear ARUNA,
I was going through the discussion of all of you guys. Actually, I have joined this networking a few days before, and what I think is "It is a matter of grievance among the employees and also politics in the premises which forced him to resign from his duties.
Being an HR professional, you should have a session with him asking for the reasons. If it was related to salary or something similar, then this could have been sorted out by the senior management. However, as he is no longer with your company, you should follow the company procedures. As he has signed the bond with you, he should either have worked here for the three months notice period or provided three months' salary in lieu of notice (as per the HR rules). Rules apply to everyone and should be followed with due respect. Otherwise, why do people sign the bond with the company if they do not intend to follow them in the future?
Lastly, you should conduct an Exit Interview with him. If you had issued him a Relieving letter, this would have helped you uncover the real truth behind the scenes. This matter should be taken care of in the near future.
Additionally, I want to express my happiness in joining such conversations. It is going to help all of us to resolve these kinds of problems in the near future.
With all good wishes,
HEMA JOSHI
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I was going through the discussion of all of you guys. Actually, I have joined this networking a few days before, and what I think is "It is a matter of grievance among the employees and also politics in the premises which forced him to resign from his duties.
Being an HR professional, you should have a session with him asking for the reasons. If it was related to salary or something similar, then this could have been sorted out by the senior management. However, as he is no longer with your company, you should follow the company procedures. As he has signed the bond with you, he should either have worked here for the three months notice period or provided three months' salary in lieu of notice (as per the HR rules). Rules apply to everyone and should be followed with due respect. Otherwise, why do people sign the bond with the company if they do not intend to follow them in the future?
Lastly, you should conduct an Exit Interview with him. If you had issued him a Relieving letter, this would have helped you uncover the real truth behind the scenes. This matter should be taken care of in the near future.
Additionally, I want to express my happiness in joining such conversations. It is going to help all of us to resolve these kinds of problems in the near future.
With all good wishes,
HEMA JOSHI
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Arunaa,
After reading your post, it seems that your office is full of politics and the PL is the cause of that politics by not recommending the TL for a hike. You HR persons are just becoming the audience on this issue and not trying to help that person to stay with your company. I am sure people are suffering like the TL, whom you relieved, due to some obnoxious bosses like your PL. This type of PL is really not born to become leaders.
Arunaa, I am sure this PL will be a disaster for your company one day. So please have a succession plan for the same PL.
Thank GOD you relieved that person, and he will have some other good opportunities somewhere else and at least can pursue a career where there won't be any political boss like your PL.
But, as I know, HR should be a career builder and should look into the genuine cause and save the right candidate. Whether you have a team of 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, or even more, you should contain the bad ones, protect the good ones, and periodically hire new ones while letting go of the bad ones.
Thanks,
dev
From India, Gurgaon
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After reading your post, it seems that your office is full of politics and the PL is the cause of that politics by not recommending the TL for a hike. You HR persons are just becoming the audience on this issue and not trying to help that person to stay with your company. I am sure people are suffering like the TL, whom you relieved, due to some obnoxious bosses like your PL. This type of PL is really not born to become leaders.
Arunaa, I am sure this PL will be a disaster for your company one day. So please have a succession plan for the same PL.
Thank GOD you relieved that person, and he will have some other good opportunities somewhere else and at least can pursue a career where there won't be any political boss like your PL.
But, as I know, HR should be a career builder and should look into the genuine cause and save the right candidate. Whether you have a team of 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, or even more, you should contain the bad ones, protect the good ones, and periodically hire new ones while letting go of the bad ones.
Thanks,
dev
From India, Gurgaon
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Special approval note can be used with very good English and grammar, depicting the situation in a very good manner. You can overrule the company policy and rules as a special case.
For example, if I am leaving the company without giving the required 3 months' notice period, my boss may help me by submitting a special note stating that I am relieved within 3 months easily.
From India, Pune
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For example, if I am leaving the company without giving the required 3 months' notice period, my boss may help me by submitting a special note stating that I am relieved within 3 months easily.
From India, Pune
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Sravan,
I don't know why your message is so strict. As an HR person, I want to be friendly and convey the message through the pre-mentioned hierarchy. Please don't let the employees treat HR as a butcher.
Relax and be cool while dealing with such sensitive matters; that's where the real HR is going to win.
Cheers,
Bharat
From India, Hyderabad
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I don't know why your message is so strict. As an HR person, I want to be friendly and convey the message through the pre-mentioned hierarchy. Please don't let the employees treat HR as a butcher.
Relax and be cool while dealing with such sensitive matters; that's where the real HR is going to win.
Cheers,
Bharat
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi All,
It was nice reading through all such discussions. This case, I think, is one of the most common root causes of higher attrition in organizations. None feels satisfied with his/her salary anywhere in the hierarchy. We have to understand that MAN is a greedy being; as long as his company satisfies his greed, he'll stay, else he'll leave. Then, all such bonds, agreements, threatening orders, and papers can't do anything.
My suggestion for this issue would be to choose either of the 2 options:
- Don't ask the employees to sign a 2-year bond + 3 months notice period with you because if someone decides to leave, he will leave you without serving any notice period, and you might have to put "special notes/approvals" each time (or most of the time).
- If you HAVE to put such a 'bond' condition in your employment order, revise it and you can do it like a 1-year bond + 1 month of notice (which is humane, rational, justified, and an industry standard). You can also explain to the employees during their interview that if they break the policy, they might have to lose out on some monetary benefits (like: leave encashment/ LTA/ any other allowance). You can put a clause that the employees can claim such benefits only after the completion of the bond cycle. Or they can get additional perks/benefits on the successful completion of their Bond Period.
All the above is just an opinion, hope to be taken in a healthy way.
Regards,
Parul
From India, Delhi
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It was nice reading through all such discussions. This case, I think, is one of the most common root causes of higher attrition in organizations. None feels satisfied with his/her salary anywhere in the hierarchy. We have to understand that MAN is a greedy being; as long as his company satisfies his greed, he'll stay, else he'll leave. Then, all such bonds, agreements, threatening orders, and papers can't do anything.
My suggestion for this issue would be to choose either of the 2 options:
- Don't ask the employees to sign a 2-year bond + 3 months notice period with you because if someone decides to leave, he will leave you without serving any notice period, and you might have to put "special notes/approvals" each time (or most of the time).
- If you HAVE to put such a 'bond' condition in your employment order, revise it and you can do it like a 1-year bond + 1 month of notice (which is humane, rational, justified, and an industry standard). You can also explain to the employees during their interview that if they break the policy, they might have to lose out on some monetary benefits (like: leave encashment/ LTA/ any other allowance). You can put a clause that the employees can claim such benefits only after the completion of the bond cycle. Or they can get additional perks/benefits on the successful completion of their Bond Period.
All the above is just an opinion, hope to be taken in a healthy way.
Regards,
Parul
From India, Delhi
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The real situation is that these types of bonds are void, no matter what the conditions are. If, for instance, you were to stop that person, what could we gain from him? There is a lot of unrest in him; he tries to create an atmosphere that may affect others' productivity as well. Therefore, please try to tackle such a situation. What I believe is that "agar banda na chahe to us se uska baap bhi kaam nahi karva sakta."
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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Sorry for the late response. I only have to say:
1. Relieving letters can be given only if HR wants; otherwise, not.
2. Recovery of bond can be done only if HR wants.
3. Managers are only supposed to suggest, not decide or alter HR policies. HR has to make decisions on such matters. Take a stand!
From India, Bangalore
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1. Relieving letters can be given only if HR wants; otherwise, not.
2. Recovery of bond can be done only if HR wants.
3. Managers are only supposed to suggest, not decide or alter HR policies. HR has to make decisions on such matters. Take a stand!
From India, Bangalore
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1. Relieving letters can be given only if HR wants, else not. This is not fair and results in harassment of employees. They are not your slaves.
2. Recovery of bond can be done only if HR wants.
3. Managers are only supposed to suggest, not to decide or alter HR policies. Managers should only suggest to HR. The best scenario is that Managers know about employees more than HR does and care for the employees' future more than HR does. HR does not have full information and makes decisions based on their thinking, which results in losses for employees both in terms of money and career. HR's role is to develop and not to cause losses for employees.
From India, Pune
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2. Recovery of bond can be done only if HR wants.
3. Managers are only supposed to suggest, not to decide or alter HR policies. Managers should only suggest to HR. The best scenario is that Managers know about employees more than HR does and care for the employees' future more than HR does. HR does not have full information and makes decisions based on their thinking, which results in losses for employees both in terms of money and career. HR's role is to develop and not to cause losses for employees.
From India, Pune
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