I am working as an HR officer in a sporting goods company. I have issued a written warning to one of our female employees for wearing improper office attire despite the dress code policy stated in our code of conduct manual. A day after giving the memo, I received an appeal letter stating that the said employee is requesting a written explanation from the HR department regarding the memo. Should the HR department provide a written explanation for this? I need help. What could possibly be the best solution to this? Thanks.
From Philippines, Olongapo
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From Philippines, Olongapo
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The warning letter has to include the reason for issuing it as well as how it has violated the policy/certain disciplines followed by the company.
If you have already included those details clearly, the next lines shall include asking/demanding for an explanation from the person to whom it has been issued, asking for justification (since you cannot punish any person without hearing the other party—natural justice, one of the universal principles of law).
If you have mentioned the punitive actions that will be executed against her or would be executed in case such indiscipline continues, then you are bound to give her an explanation.
In your case, it is better to have a personal talk with the person, explaining why the warning was issued (your job pressure to maintain the cultural standards at the workplace), and you may inform her again that if she fails to respond to the warning, the next steps would be taken against her. During this meeting, you may demand an explanation from her before she demands it from you.
If she wants it in writing, you may write a letter with the same reasons as mentioned in the warning letter and strictly state that the company policy is meant for execution, and do not forget to include the explanation from that side.
Make sure there are no personal intentions behind such acts, as one of the duties of HR is to maintain not just human relations but healthy relations with the employer and employee.
From India, Bangalore
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203If you have already included those details clearly, the next lines shall include asking/demanding for an explanation from the person to whom it has been issued, asking for justification (since you cannot punish any person without hearing the other party—natural justice, one of the universal principles of law).
If you have mentioned the punitive actions that will be executed against her or would be executed in case such indiscipline continues, then you are bound to give her an explanation.
In your case, it is better to have a personal talk with the person, explaining why the warning was issued (your job pressure to maintain the cultural standards at the workplace), and you may inform her again that if she fails to respond to the warning, the next steps would be taken against her. During this meeting, you may demand an explanation from her before she demands it from you.
If she wants it in writing, you may write a letter with the same reasons as mentioned in the warning letter and strictly state that the company policy is meant for execution, and do not forget to include the explanation from that side.
Make sure there are no personal intentions behind such acts, as one of the duties of HR is to maintain not just human relations but healthy relations with the employer and employee.
From India, Bangalore
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A 1000 credit to BSSV to explain and remedial actions, even I do not get it....
"A warning letter to a female employee wearing improper dress despite proper dress code."
Is HR for making things simple or to make everyone's life a hell...
First of all, HRDTIN, this forum is becoming more like "come sit and solve a riddle."
HRDTIN has left us clueless. Did he discuss it with the employee's superior? Did he verbally or in written form communicate his concern to that employee? Is there a scope of a warning letter in the dress code policy? Have you spoken to your senior? You did not even share the content of the warning letter (I guess it must state that "you are wearing improper dress" and "action will be taken if you repeat this in the future").
I would like to know, if she comes in improper dress in the future, will you fire her? If not, what is the value of your warning letter.
I am sure that the lady must have felt offended, and she has every right to do so. We are HR professionals, not Taliban or Khap Panchayat.
Now, what BSSV has stated, send her a reply mentioning the enforceability of the rules. Please avoid big words like warning and improper dress (what is considered proper, a "BURKA" I guess). Try to resolve without delay; it will spread unrest in the organization and will start a topic of the NEED OF HR in your office.
Rupendra Chahar
From India, Gurgaon
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"A warning letter to a female employee wearing improper dress despite proper dress code."
Is HR for making things simple or to make everyone's life a hell...
First of all, HRDTIN, this forum is becoming more like "come sit and solve a riddle."
HRDTIN has left us clueless. Did he discuss it with the employee's superior? Did he verbally or in written form communicate his concern to that employee? Is there a scope of a warning letter in the dress code policy? Have you spoken to your senior? You did not even share the content of the warning letter (I guess it must state that "you are wearing improper dress" and "action will be taken if you repeat this in the future").
I would like to know, if she comes in improper dress in the future, will you fire her? If not, what is the value of your warning letter.
I am sure that the lady must have felt offended, and she has every right to do so. We are HR professionals, not Taliban or Khap Panchayat.
Now, what BSSV has stated, send her a reply mentioning the enforceability of the rules. Please avoid big words like warning and improper dress (what is considered proper, a "BURKA" I guess). Try to resolve without delay; it will spread unrest in the organization and will start a topic of the NEED OF HR in your office.
Rupendra Chahar
From India, Gurgaon
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Hello HR team,
You stated that you have issued a Warning Letter. Normally, Warning Letters are issued after a couple of verbal warnings. Also, these are not "Show Cause" Notices. I gather you have made it clear that her dressing is violating the documented dress code of the company. Obviously, you must have mentioned the details of the misbehavior/incidents such as dates, etc. Since it is a warning letter, it is assumed that you have not asked her for any explanation - just warned her to not repeat the behavior, or else face the consequences (which is normally mentioned in the Warning Letter).
Therefore, it is not clear what she is requesting in writing. If possible, please share the documentation so that you can get appropriate advice.
Regards,
Kalpana Iyer
From India, Pune
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You stated that you have issued a Warning Letter. Normally, Warning Letters are issued after a couple of verbal warnings. Also, these are not "Show Cause" Notices. I gather you have made it clear that her dressing is violating the documented dress code of the company. Obviously, you must have mentioned the details of the misbehavior/incidents such as dates, etc. Since it is a warning letter, it is assumed that you have not asked her for any explanation - just warned her to not repeat the behavior, or else face the consequences (which is normally mentioned in the Warning Letter).
Therefore, it is not clear what she is requesting in writing. If possible, please share the documentation so that you can get appropriate advice.
Regards,
Kalpana Iyer
From India, Pune
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Dear friends,
I presume the "scene/place of action" is the Philippines. If so, this has to be viewed with the conditions prevailing there. India is different, I hope. However, I suggest that the HR or the HOD of the concerned department should have talked to the female employee in a friendly atmosphere, and appropriate advice should have been given to her. I think this friendly advice should solve the issue. Probably, a female Sr. should be used to drive home the point.
Kumar.S.
From India, Bangalore
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I presume the "scene/place of action" is the Philippines. If so, this has to be viewed with the conditions prevailing there. India is different, I hope. However, I suggest that the HR or the HOD of the concerned department should have talked to the female employee in a friendly atmosphere, and appropriate advice should have been given to her. I think this friendly advice should solve the issue. Probably, a female Sr. should be used to drive home the point.
Kumar.S.
From India, Bangalore
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Dear hrdtin,
My questions to you are:
1. Who has committed or is committing the alleged misconduct, you or the lady?
2. If the lady has committed or is committing the alleged misconduct, how is she asking for a written explanation from you on the warning memo issued to her?
It is a skill of HR to handle such kind of situation. If HR is strong enough with knowledge, fair and firm with employees, no one can dare to question HR. I wish you good luck in handling the issue.
Thanks and regards,
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com, Insurance Advisors, Corporate Advisors, Legal Advice, Wage and Salary, Shantadurgaent.com, Labour Compliance Audit, SSI Registration, NOC from
From India, Mumbai
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My questions to you are:
1. Who has committed or is committing the alleged misconduct, you or the lady?
2. If the lady has committed or is committing the alleged misconduct, how is she asking for a written explanation from you on the warning memo issued to her?
It is a skill of HR to handle such kind of situation. If HR is strong enough with knowledge, fair and firm with employees, no one can dare to question HR. I wish you good luck in handling the issue.
Thanks and regards,
Keshav Korgaonkar
Shantadurgaent.com, Insurance Advisors, Corporate Advisors, Legal Advice, Wage and Salary, Shantadurgaent.com, Labour Compliance Audit, SSI Registration, NOC from
From India, Mumbai
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As an HR professional, the best approach is to give employees what they want by clearly stating the mistakes they made, explaining how these errors affect the company's code of conduct, and outlining the potential impact on other employees. In such situations, issuing a written warning serves as a reminder for the individual not to repeat the same mistakes.
It is important to follow a specific procedure for disciplinary actions. After meeting with the employee to discuss their errors, ensure that they understand the nature of their mistakes. Conclude the meeting by having them sign the necessary documents for future reference. These records will be kept on file for any further necessary actions.
From United Kingdom, Farnborough
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It is important to follow a specific procedure for disciplinary actions. After meeting with the employee to discuss their errors, ensure that they understand the nature of their mistakes. Conclude the meeting by having them sign the necessary documents for future reference. These records will be kept on file for any further necessary actions.
From United Kingdom, Farnborough
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Mr. Rupendra Chahar,
I very much appreciate your willingness to point out my response as a mistake and completely incorrect.
"Opinions always differ," they are like wristwatches; everyone thinks their time is correct and follows their own.
I wish you could understand the difference between policy and rules.
Secondly, I also wish you could understand that a person in an HR position would likely know the basics.
Thirdly, when you have admitted that you haven't understood anything, what kind of conscious mind of yours is involved in something called sarcasm that successfully replies to the misunderstood.
Fourthly, I wish you would understand that the person has asked for further process since he has realized that the warning letter may be a mistake.
Fifthly, the system is not as easy compared to India, where we Indians shall at least know a bit about something before commenting on it (never mind if you fail to understand).
Regarding the site and solving riddles, I do not know about that, but I would surely say that since 2007, as per my awareness of this site since then, I have observed that the major topics for discussions are already established, so it has reached an optimum level. Hence, assuming that those who refer to this site might know the basics of HRM depending on the questions asked, the replies are given accordingly. Solving riddles requires more brainpower than suggesting. Therefore, I am pleased to know that the intention of the site is being appreciated in a subtle way.
Finally, whatever my replies are, they are only my "wishes" shared with you (neither opinions nor points for debate). So, thank you very much for your reply, and I truly appreciate your maturity. I hope to learn more from you and that you help this inexperienced person become as mature as you.
Best regards,
[Your Name]
From India, Bangalore
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I very much appreciate your willingness to point out my response as a mistake and completely incorrect.
"Opinions always differ," they are like wristwatches; everyone thinks their time is correct and follows their own.
I wish you could understand the difference between policy and rules.
Secondly, I also wish you could understand that a person in an HR position would likely know the basics.
Thirdly, when you have admitted that you haven't understood anything, what kind of conscious mind of yours is involved in something called sarcasm that successfully replies to the misunderstood.
Fourthly, I wish you would understand that the person has asked for further process since he has realized that the warning letter may be a mistake.
Fifthly, the system is not as easy compared to India, where we Indians shall at least know a bit about something before commenting on it (never mind if you fail to understand).
Regarding the site and solving riddles, I do not know about that, but I would surely say that since 2007, as per my awareness of this site since then, I have observed that the major topics for discussions are already established, so it has reached an optimum level. Hence, assuming that those who refer to this site might know the basics of HRM depending on the questions asked, the replies are given accordingly. Solving riddles requires more brainpower than suggesting. Therefore, I am pleased to know that the intention of the site is being appreciated in a subtle way.
Finally, whatever my replies are, they are only my "wishes" shared with you (neither opinions nor points for debate). So, thank you very much for your reply, and I truly appreciate your maturity. I hope to learn more from you and that you help this inexperienced person become as mature as you.
Best regards,
[Your Name]
From India, Bangalore
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Thank you for all the responses. I would like to provide a clearer insight into the issue.
In our policy, based on our code of conduct manual, inappropriate dress is a violation. A three-day suspension will be imposed for the first offense and will escalate if repeated.
I recently observed a female employee wearing inappropriate attire. Instead of issuing a three-day suspension, I opted to give her a stern written warning, clearly stating that she was not in compliance with the proper office attire policy. I also emphasized that any repetition of the violation would result in appropriate action. The employee acknowledged this by signing the memo.
The following day, the employee submitted an appeal letter, requesting an explanation for why the memo was issued and its underlying basis.
Is HR obligated to provide a written explanation for her offense when the sanctions are clearly outlined in the employee manual?
I acknowledge that my decision may have seemed unfair, but I followed the policy guidelines. It's worth noting that I did not intend to embarrass her; she voluntarily disclosed the incident to her department.
Thank you.
From Philippines, Olongapo
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In our policy, based on our code of conduct manual, inappropriate dress is a violation. A three-day suspension will be imposed for the first offense and will escalate if repeated.
I recently observed a female employee wearing inappropriate attire. Instead of issuing a three-day suspension, I opted to give her a stern written warning, clearly stating that she was not in compliance with the proper office attire policy. I also emphasized that any repetition of the violation would result in appropriate action. The employee acknowledged this by signing the memo.
The following day, the employee submitted an appeal letter, requesting an explanation for why the memo was issued and its underlying basis.
Is HR obligated to provide a written explanation for her offense when the sanctions are clearly outlined in the employee manual?
I acknowledge that my decision may have seemed unfair, but I followed the policy guidelines. It's worth noting that I did not intend to embarrass her; she voluntarily disclosed the incident to her department.
Thank you.
From Philippines, Olongapo
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Your code has a loophole in it. It should explain, at least briefly, what amounts to the violation of the dress code. Many such codes do explain, for example, that the skirt shall be below the knees, shall cover the abdomen, and specific colors are required for male employees.
I know that the labor laws there are very supportive of employees and have a strong impact when it comes to harassment. This is because, unlike in India where the employee has to prove the case, there the employer owes the responsibility to prove guilt. I would suggest that instead of anything written making it more complicated, call her for a personal talk. Give her a copy of the code of conduct, explain the situation, and the duty to follow it. Clarify that it was not due to personal indifference but the pressure of HR forcing the decision. Be amicable and come to a settlement where the warning letter will be rescinded, but it does not give the right to the employee to disobey the code. She must understand and compromise. If she demands a letter of explanation, then act as an HR professional and send the explanation through your superior, not just from you.
I emphasize oral conversation because if a letter is issued and a response is demanded, it could cross boundaries into legal territory. An HR professional, especially dealing with labor matters, should not forget this part to avoid unwanted complications and imbalances in the workplace.
In the Philippines, three factors are considered very important: the interests of the employees, motivation, and control. Balancing these responsibilities falls on the employer. I have also heard that top management supports employees more than middle-level executives. They believe that removing one executive is more productive than disrupting the entire process and inviting legal and labor issues. Your issue is not significant, just informational. I request you to enhance my knowledge by sharing your insights on Philippines employee-related management skills, practices, laws, and any special preferences in HR practices.
Hope this helps you. Have a nice day.
From India, Bangalore
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I know that the labor laws there are very supportive of employees and have a strong impact when it comes to harassment. This is because, unlike in India where the employee has to prove the case, there the employer owes the responsibility to prove guilt. I would suggest that instead of anything written making it more complicated, call her for a personal talk. Give her a copy of the code of conduct, explain the situation, and the duty to follow it. Clarify that it was not due to personal indifference but the pressure of HR forcing the decision. Be amicable and come to a settlement where the warning letter will be rescinded, but it does not give the right to the employee to disobey the code. She must understand and compromise. If she demands a letter of explanation, then act as an HR professional and send the explanation through your superior, not just from you.
I emphasize oral conversation because if a letter is issued and a response is demanded, it could cross boundaries into legal territory. An HR professional, especially dealing with labor matters, should not forget this part to avoid unwanted complications and imbalances in the workplace.
In the Philippines, three factors are considered very important: the interests of the employees, motivation, and control. Balancing these responsibilities falls on the employer. I have also heard that top management supports employees more than middle-level executives. They believe that removing one executive is more productive than disrupting the entire process and inviting legal and labor issues. Your issue is not significant, just informational. I request you to enhance my knowledge by sharing your insights on Philippines employee-related management skills, practices, laws, and any special preferences in HR practices.
Hope this helps you. Have a nice day.
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Hrdtin,
You have mentioned that you are from a sporting goods company. May I ask if the person caught not wearing the proper uniform was assigned to a store where she deals directly with customers?
I have to ask this since if she deals directly with customers, the element of company branding is obviously violated.
However, I noticed that your policy is too harsh. A first violation would already constitute a 3-day suspension. Sanctions should begin with a light to a severe reprimand, e.g., a reminder, warning, suspension, etc. Your guidelines should also have room for exemption for not wearing a uniform, which should be endorsed and authorized by a supervisor. Reasons may include a torn uniform, failure to dry on time, etc. Although these are just examples, they can happen in reality.
As for the demand for a written explanation regarding the warning you issued, did you not cite the particular policy she violated as written in your warning memo? I guess it is the lady who has the responsibility to give a written explanation regarding the violation she committed, not the HR.
Nevertheless, you may want to revisit your policy and check if there are any loopholes and correct them as necessary.
You may also want to reorient your employees regarding the employees' code of discipline. If this is not possible, as an HR person, especially if the issue is repeatedly done in the office, you may want to consider issuing a reminder memorandum to all employees citing the policy and why it is important for the employees to wear their respective company uniforms.
Good luck to you. What I have also noticed as an HR professional is that sometimes employees tend to deny having knowledge of the content of the company manual just to avoid getting reprimanded for the violations they have committed. Since we deal with people, it is also our responsibility to educate them in a way that we should not treat them harshly but rather go the other way around. This is one of the biggest challenges that an HR professional experiences every day in their lives. Just be patient with these people; they are the ones who will not be satisfied or appreciate the HR. In our company, I must admit that these people also exist. What I do in order to change their outlook on HR is to give them assignments to make them feel empowered. I assign them as members of a committee for a certain event or any gathering where their opinion would count a lot. Lastly, stay as cool as possible. In everything that you do, be as objective as possible.
Regards,
Mai
From Philippines, Manila
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You have mentioned that you are from a sporting goods company. May I ask if the person caught not wearing the proper uniform was assigned to a store where she deals directly with customers?
I have to ask this since if she deals directly with customers, the element of company branding is obviously violated.
However, I noticed that your policy is too harsh. A first violation would already constitute a 3-day suspension. Sanctions should begin with a light to a severe reprimand, e.g., a reminder, warning, suspension, etc. Your guidelines should also have room for exemption for not wearing a uniform, which should be endorsed and authorized by a supervisor. Reasons may include a torn uniform, failure to dry on time, etc. Although these are just examples, they can happen in reality.
As for the demand for a written explanation regarding the warning you issued, did you not cite the particular policy she violated as written in your warning memo? I guess it is the lady who has the responsibility to give a written explanation regarding the violation she committed, not the HR.
Nevertheless, you may want to revisit your policy and check if there are any loopholes and correct them as necessary.
You may also want to reorient your employees regarding the employees' code of discipline. If this is not possible, as an HR person, especially if the issue is repeatedly done in the office, you may want to consider issuing a reminder memorandum to all employees citing the policy and why it is important for the employees to wear their respective company uniforms.
Good luck to you. What I have also noticed as an HR professional is that sometimes employees tend to deny having knowledge of the content of the company manual just to avoid getting reprimanded for the violations they have committed. Since we deal with people, it is also our responsibility to educate them in a way that we should not treat them harshly but rather go the other way around. This is one of the biggest challenges that an HR professional experiences every day in their lives. Just be patient with these people; they are the ones who will not be satisfied or appreciate the HR. In our company, I must admit that these people also exist. What I do in order to change their outlook on HR is to give them assignments to make them feel empowered. I assign them as members of a committee for a certain event or any gathering where their opinion would count a lot. Lastly, stay as cool as possible. In everything that you do, be as objective as possible.
Regards,
Mai
From Philippines, Manila
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Dear BSSV (or what ever)
Requested to please read my comments again, do not like when those who call themselves professionals behave like cats. Did not knew you will be offended by it (Make sure you read my comments again, if you not able to understand call me, or send an SMS I will call you).
I will definitely give your comments to at least 1000 persons as a specimen. This is a perfect example (do not like to comment what type of example).
Well, I never qualify high standards like you to abuse and writing paragraphs, since I am working in isolated development sector. Apologies for writing these comments, what can I do those who taught me (must be stupid I guess now) years back use to start the day with peace and harmony, and forcefully make me to believe that such environment should be maintain in organisation.
One more thing this is to all I am working for 12 years and did not get a clue in the initial Question, in future requested please explain things, so that people like us (can be only me I am afraid) do not fall behind by those smart sharp shooters who join this forum in 2007. since then the politeness and respect is also vanished (Look like we back benchers are left in the progress).
And at last how come after commenting on some ones capability, abusing, harassing.. you are running away from a DEBATE. Well enough of cursing, abusing (look like I am being dragged down to same level to write paragraphs)....
I still like to quote again that lady instead of given in writing should be informed by some one (mature) and still like to know from HRDTIN will you be able to FIRE her if she comes again in IMPROPER dress???
And HRTN please do not take it other wise if you feel hurt I am really sorry (I read mine I should have avoid saying Taliban or Khap).
As I said in earlier comment to sort out this issue ASAP, if you have not I am afraid by now atmosphere will be very bad in your organisation.
HRDTIN in this case what I feel was HR Manager acted of his own (I agree now as it is as per your policy (but please change such policies if you can this is very harsh)) but is it not that the HR, policy, rules, law and Manuals are to make things better and organized rather than a hateful HR Department.
See for example many organization did not like there employee to go on Facebook during working hours agreed, they mention this in their manual and if the employer or management see such thing they call him or his reporting manager separately and notify him. Even such activities are discouraged in the manual but there is no provision of warning letter in manual.
It is left for the employee to read manuals and understand and if they don’t help them out, I mean if I wear a T-Shirt last week how come I will damage the culture of the organization ( What if due to white wash I did not get a shirt, and what if I was on leave and called for urgent work, by my boss) can we be more polite in our working, and cant we restrict warning letter for serious matters.
All up to you did not like to offend you or including BSSV, but as seen & did such mistake in past I do not like others to do it. See HR is not a post office and not a police, it is a person wanted (for all good reasons) by the employees (worker, managers, employers)
Thanks
Rupendra Chahar
9555528042
From India, Gurgaon
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Requested to please read my comments again, do not like when those who call themselves professionals behave like cats. Did not knew you will be offended by it (Make sure you read my comments again, if you not able to understand call me, or send an SMS I will call you).
I will definitely give your comments to at least 1000 persons as a specimen. This is a perfect example (do not like to comment what type of example).
Well, I never qualify high standards like you to abuse and writing paragraphs, since I am working in isolated development sector. Apologies for writing these comments, what can I do those who taught me (must be stupid I guess now) years back use to start the day with peace and harmony, and forcefully make me to believe that such environment should be maintain in organisation.
One more thing this is to all I am working for 12 years and did not get a clue in the initial Question, in future requested please explain things, so that people like us (can be only me I am afraid) do not fall behind by those smart sharp shooters who join this forum in 2007. since then the politeness and respect is also vanished (Look like we back benchers are left in the progress).
And at last how come after commenting on some ones capability, abusing, harassing.. you are running away from a DEBATE. Well enough of cursing, abusing (look like I am being dragged down to same level to write paragraphs)....
I still like to quote again that lady instead of given in writing should be informed by some one (mature) and still like to know from HRDTIN will you be able to FIRE her if she comes again in IMPROPER dress???
And HRTN please do not take it other wise if you feel hurt I am really sorry (I read mine I should have avoid saying Taliban or Khap).
As I said in earlier comment to sort out this issue ASAP, if you have not I am afraid by now atmosphere will be very bad in your organisation.
HRDTIN in this case what I feel was HR Manager acted of his own (I agree now as it is as per your policy (but please change such policies if you can this is very harsh)) but is it not that the HR, policy, rules, law and Manuals are to make things better and organized rather than a hateful HR Department.
See for example many organization did not like there employee to go on Facebook during working hours agreed, they mention this in their manual and if the employer or management see such thing they call him or his reporting manager separately and notify him. Even such activities are discouraged in the manual but there is no provision of warning letter in manual.
It is left for the employee to read manuals and understand and if they don’t help them out, I mean if I wear a T-Shirt last week how come I will damage the culture of the organization ( What if due to white wash I did not get a shirt, and what if I was on leave and called for urgent work, by my boss) can we be more polite in our working, and cant we restrict warning letter for serious matters.
All up to you did not like to offend you or including BSSV, but as seen & did such mistake in past I do not like others to do it. See HR is not a post office and not a police, it is a person wanted (for all good reasons) by the employees (worker, managers, employers)
Thanks
Rupendra Chahar
9555528042
From India, Gurgaon
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