Hi All, "People don’t leave the company, they leave bosses." How far do you agree with this statement? regards PD
From India, Pune
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5From India, Pune
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This is an 80-20 question. 80% of the time, people leave because of managers. This does not mean that being a good or bad manager makes a difference. If there is an imbalance in the treatment meted out, if the person's suggestions are never heard or taken seriously (no feedback given), if the manager cannot defend their employee, even if they are right or if the manager has promised to do so, if the manager just scores everyone on average, then the better performers will leave.
The above are only a few examples as to why an employee will resign to change their boss, even when the boss is good. If the boss is bad, then all the more reason for the employee to leave to change their boss.
20% of the time, people leave the company due to the culture of the company, the management style adversely affecting the morale and growth of the individual, if the company is entangled in red tape, or any legal hassles, or if they are experiencing a downward spiral. These are the cases when people leave the company and not the boss.
So, people will not only leave their bosses but also leave the company in general in an 80-20 proportion.
Regards,
Ashutosh Thakre
From India, Mumbai
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The above are only a few examples as to why an employee will resign to change their boss, even when the boss is good. If the boss is bad, then all the more reason for the employee to leave to change their boss.
20% of the time, people leave the company due to the culture of the company, the management style adversely affecting the morale and growth of the individual, if the company is entangled in red tape, or any legal hassles, or if they are experiencing a downward spiral. These are the cases when people leave the company and not the boss.
So, people will not only leave their bosses but also leave the company in general in an 80-20 proportion.
Regards,
Ashutosh Thakre
From India, Mumbai
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Dear Prakash,
The famous organization Gallup, which conducts surveys on various issues, has come up with this famous statement after their research. Click the following link to refer to their article: [How Managers Trump Companies](http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/523/how-managers-trump-companies)
The above statement is neither their perception nor intuition. Therefore, questioning whether members of this forum agree with it or not is irrelevant.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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The famous organization Gallup, which conducts surveys on various issues, has come up with this famous statement after their research. Click the following link to refer to their article: [How Managers Trump Companies](http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/523/how-managers-trump-companies)
The above statement is neither their perception nor intuition. Therefore, questioning whether members of this forum agree with it or not is irrelevant.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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True, nobody can dare disagree with the statement in the post if the manager is bad. But what baffles me is how they keep their jobs when they are draining the organization of good talent, though the reasons therefor are not difficult to speculate. Can a business still afford such bad managers in the stiflingly competitive environment?
B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Consultant
From India, Mumbai
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B. Saikumar
HR & Labour Law Consultant
From India, Mumbai
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Not in many cases. This is only one of many reasons due to which employees leave the company. However, the nature of motivational measures in any organization and the good nature of a boss tend to foster loyalty in most employees, often leading them to prioritize the company's interests over their own.
From India, Delhi
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From India, Delhi
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I think that employees leave because of many reasons: bad bosses, unfit working environment, bad colleagues, lack of challenges, or just personal reasons. However, as I've seen, a bad boss is the most popular reason in these cases.
This link can help you understand yourself better: are you a good boss or a bad boss? [http://vnmanpower.com/en/are-you-a-good-boss-or-bad-boss-bl81.html](http://vnmanpower.com/en/are-you-a-good-boss-or-bad-boss-bl81.html)
From Vietnam, Hanoi
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This link can help you understand yourself better: are you a good boss or a bad boss? [http://vnmanpower.com/en/are-you-a-good-boss-or-bad-boss-bl81.html](http://vnmanpower.com/en/are-you-a-good-boss-or-bad-boss-bl81.html)
From Vietnam, Hanoi
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Hi everyone,
I had made a one-line comment immediately after the start of the thread, and now it has disappeared! From my experience, I can say that in the Indian style of working, the interaction between a boss and his colleagues takes place very often. When the equation does not match, it becomes a recurring agony and torture for the junior colleague. If that happens, one starts looking for other avenues and leaves the boss, and also the job.
V. Raghunathan
From India
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I had made a one-line comment immediately after the start of the thread, and now it has disappeared! From my experience, I can say that in the Indian style of working, the interaction between a boss and his colleagues takes place very often. When the equation does not match, it becomes a recurring agony and torture for the junior colleague. If that happens, one starts looking for other avenues and leaves the boss, and also the job.
V. Raghunathan
From India
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Many bosses lack a professional touch in their dealings with subordinates. They do not mentor their juniors sufficiently and spend far too little time developing them. They are busy in a rat race themselves, and juniors are the pawns in the game. The very few bosses who act professionally bring out the best in their juniors - professionally, they are the lucky subordinates who get a chance to work with. Sometimes, they never communicate things properly and say, "I thought it was understood and implied." Your thought is no substitute for good and clear communication. They fail to give feedback on their juniors' performance in a manner that helps the junior analyze and understand his shortcomings.
Read this link: [Top 10 Qualities of a Good Boss | RISMedia](http://rismedia.com/2008-01-09/top-10-qualities-of-a-good-boss/)
From India, Pune
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Read this link: [Top 10 Qualities of a Good Boss | RISMedia](http://rismedia.com/2008-01-09/top-10-qualities-of-a-good-boss/)
From India, Pune
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Dear Prakash,
The theory of "Survival of the fittest" applies in the corporate culture as well. Needless to emphasize, corporates are created as profit-earning entities, where stakeholders expect management to show results. Naturally, corporates treat the welfare and comfort of employees as a secondary issue compared to results. So, bosses in corporate culture are also expected by top bosses to be the fittest persons to prove themselves as better designed for the immediate local environment. The fittest in the corporate culture is he who is capable of showing results by getting results from his team members.
The history of the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" goes back to the year 1864. The phrase originated from an evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of "natural selection." The phrase was coined by Herbert Spencer, an English Philosopher. Although he coined the phrase after reading Charles Darwin's world-renowned theory "The Origin of Species," Charles Darwin himself preferred to introduce the phrase in the fifth edition of "The Origin of Species," published in 1869, intending it to mean "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
So, bosses, per force, have to prove as "better designed for an immediate, local environment." Similarly, employees working under him are also expected to prove themselves to be "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
Regarding the saying, "People don't leave the company, they leave bosses," any sincere, result-oriented, and knowledgeable person doesn't feel the need to leave his boss or the company unless he needs to satisfy his own personal issues. In fact, what I believe, the phrase, "People don't leave the company, they leave bosses," is coined by a negative, theoretical-minded author having no practical experience. Some authors fill their books with junk material, as most authors, having a flair for writing and a craze for earning money out of the ignorance of readers, coin such phrases just to make their theory books voluminous. Theory and practice can prove to be the reverse sides and contradictory to each other in the concept of management and leadership.
My own practical experience in encountering such authors has proven that such authors do nothing except filling the papers with hypothetical vague ideas in several cases just with the sole aim of being known to the readers. I remember challenging one of the world's top gurus in management on some of his vague ideas published through the journal of "Harvard Business Review" of the world-famous University of Harvard. But, by virtue of his right to moderate the comments, instead of proving my concept wrong against his own idea, he preferred not to let my views published with the fear that he was going to be proved wrong, affecting his reputation as one of the world gurus in management. After seeing no response in the HBR for about a week, when I reminded Harvard University along with my more derogatory comments on the ideas published in the article and questioned the university that when the University itself was allowing to profess wrong management ideas, what results could be expected from University's management students after they pass their exams. When I insisted the University to publish my latest comments, including my observation about the university, as a face-saving measure, the editor of the journal came forward with the plea that my views could not be published earlier as the same appeared in their spam mail, and so they had retrieved the same and published my previous comments. The question arises, how could the views expressed on a blog site of the University appear in their spam mail?
Sometimes, theoretical authors invent such vague ideas and phrases. Some members have endorsed the view that in about 80% of cases, people leave only due to toughness of managers/bosses. But the question arises, where is such a survey to prove that 80% of people leave companies only due to bad managers.
Of course, in some cases, people leave due to bad behavior or toughness of their bosses, but it is wrong to suggest that 80% of people leave due to the said reason.
My experience says, the biggest reason for attrition is the lack of motivation for the career development of employees or their expectations for comforts and ease of doing the job in the organization.
BUT MY BELIEF IS, ONCE AN EMPLOYEE IS CAPABLE OF TAKING HINTS OF THE BOSS FOR DOING THE JOB AND STARTS GIVING RESULTS AS PER THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE MANAGEMENT, HE GETS A STRONG HOLD IN THE SAME EMPLOYMENT AND ALSO CREATES AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR HIS CAREER DEVELOPMENT IN THE SAME EMPLOYMENT IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT SWITCHING OVER TO SOME OTHER JOB. Some of them go to the level of MD or Chairman of the organization by dint of their loyalty, sincerity, and hard work in the organization.
So, I do not at all contribute to the said theory of "People don't leave the company, they leave bosses." The question arises, why not become the fittest in all respects so that the boss starts respecting you and works in the interest of the employee?
Kind Regards,
PD
From India, Delhi
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The theory of "Survival of the fittest" applies in the corporate culture as well. Needless to emphasize, corporates are created as profit-earning entities, where stakeholders expect management to show results. Naturally, corporates treat the welfare and comfort of employees as a secondary issue compared to results. So, bosses in corporate culture are also expected by top bosses to be the fittest persons to prove themselves as better designed for the immediate local environment. The fittest in the corporate culture is he who is capable of showing results by getting results from his team members.
The history of the phrase "Survival of the Fittest" goes back to the year 1864. The phrase originated from an evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of "natural selection." The phrase was coined by Herbert Spencer, an English Philosopher. Although he coined the phrase after reading Charles Darwin's world-renowned theory "The Origin of Species," Charles Darwin himself preferred to introduce the phrase in the fifth edition of "The Origin of Species," published in 1869, intending it to mean "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
So, bosses, per force, have to prove as "better designed for an immediate, local environment." Similarly, employees working under him are also expected to prove themselves to be "better designed for an immediate, local environment."
Regarding the saying, "People don't leave the company, they leave bosses," any sincere, result-oriented, and knowledgeable person doesn't feel the need to leave his boss or the company unless he needs to satisfy his own personal issues. In fact, what I believe, the phrase, "People don't leave the company, they leave bosses," is coined by a negative, theoretical-minded author having no practical experience. Some authors fill their books with junk material, as most authors, having a flair for writing and a craze for earning money out of the ignorance of readers, coin such phrases just to make their theory books voluminous. Theory and practice can prove to be the reverse sides and contradictory to each other in the concept of management and leadership.
My own practical experience in encountering such authors has proven that such authors do nothing except filling the papers with hypothetical vague ideas in several cases just with the sole aim of being known to the readers. I remember challenging one of the world's top gurus in management on some of his vague ideas published through the journal of "Harvard Business Review" of the world-famous University of Harvard. But, by virtue of his right to moderate the comments, instead of proving my concept wrong against his own idea, he preferred not to let my views published with the fear that he was going to be proved wrong, affecting his reputation as one of the world gurus in management. After seeing no response in the HBR for about a week, when I reminded Harvard University along with my more derogatory comments on the ideas published in the article and questioned the university that when the University itself was allowing to profess wrong management ideas, what results could be expected from University's management students after they pass their exams. When I insisted the University to publish my latest comments, including my observation about the university, as a face-saving measure, the editor of the journal came forward with the plea that my views could not be published earlier as the same appeared in their spam mail, and so they had retrieved the same and published my previous comments. The question arises, how could the views expressed on a blog site of the University appear in their spam mail?
Sometimes, theoretical authors invent such vague ideas and phrases. Some members have endorsed the view that in about 80% of cases, people leave only due to toughness of managers/bosses. But the question arises, where is such a survey to prove that 80% of people leave companies only due to bad managers.
Of course, in some cases, people leave due to bad behavior or toughness of their bosses, but it is wrong to suggest that 80% of people leave due to the said reason.
My experience says, the biggest reason for attrition is the lack of motivation for the career development of employees or their expectations for comforts and ease of doing the job in the organization.
BUT MY BELIEF IS, ONCE AN EMPLOYEE IS CAPABLE OF TAKING HINTS OF THE BOSS FOR DOING THE JOB AND STARTS GIVING RESULTS AS PER THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE MANAGEMENT, HE GETS A STRONG HOLD IN THE SAME EMPLOYMENT AND ALSO CREATES AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES FOR HIS CAREER DEVELOPMENT IN THE SAME EMPLOYMENT IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT WITHOUT SWITCHING OVER TO SOME OTHER JOB. Some of them go to the level of MD or Chairman of the organization by dint of their loyalty, sincerity, and hard work in the organization.
So, I do not at all contribute to the said theory of "People don't leave the company, they leave bosses." The question arises, why not become the fittest in all respects so that the boss starts respecting you and works in the interest of the employee?
Kind Regards,
PD
From India, Delhi
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"Why not become the fittest in all respects so that the boss starts respecting you and works in the interest of the employee?"
Easier said than done. A man may be good at his job, but if he is not regarded well by his immediate boss - reasons could vary from personal dislikes to the boss's psychological profile - he may not progress and will meet with daily obstacles in his work.
I do not subscribe to the 80-20 theory. There is no such ratio and proportion for why people leave, but having difficult managers is one big reason in many exits.
From India, Pune
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Easier said than done. A man may be good at his job, but if he is not regarded well by his immediate boss - reasons could vary from personal dislikes to the boss's psychological profile - he may not progress and will meet with daily obstacles in his work.
I do not subscribe to the 80-20 theory. There is no such ratio and proportion for why people leave, but having difficult managers is one big reason in many exits.
From India, Pune
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