Dear All,
As per the new PF notification, now employees who are receiving a basic pay of Rs. 15,000/- would be covered by PF contribution. Previously, this limit was Rs. 6,500/-.
In such a case, how should we handle the PF deduction? For instance, if the CTC is 3.12 LPA and the monthly take-home pay after deductions is Rs. 25,000/-, with a basic salary of Rs. 12,000/-, previously not covered under PF, we now need to deduct PF from her salary. She has been with the company for the past 2 years.
Can we deduct both the employee and employer shares from her salary, considering we mentioned Rs. 25,000/- as her CTC in the appointment letter?
How will such employees be treated in your company? Will employees bear the burden of the deduction (both shares or one share), or will the entire amount be covered by the company?
Kindly advise.
Thanks,
Jagriti
From India, Visakhapatnam
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3As per the new PF notification, now employees who are receiving a basic pay of Rs. 15,000/- would be covered by PF contribution. Previously, this limit was Rs. 6,500/-.
In such a case, how should we handle the PF deduction? For instance, if the CTC is 3.12 LPA and the monthly take-home pay after deductions is Rs. 25,000/-, with a basic salary of Rs. 12,000/-, previously not covered under PF, we now need to deduct PF from her salary. She has been with the company for the past 2 years.
Can we deduct both the employee and employer shares from her salary, considering we mentioned Rs. 25,000/- as her CTC in the appointment letter?
How will such employees be treated in your company? Will employees bear the burden of the deduction (both shares or one share), or will the entire amount be covered by the company?
Kindly advise.
Thanks,
Jagriti
From India, Visakhapatnam
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Dear all,
I have the same query. Also, to add more details: If an employee has a monthly gross above 25000/- but his basic salary is below 15000/- and above 6500/- (as per the earlier slab of deduction), and he has been working with the organization for 4 years but is not willing to have the PF deduction, can his basic be raised to 15001/- or more so that he does not fall under the PF slab?
From India, Vapi
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I have the same query. Also, to add more details: If an employee has a monthly gross above 25000/- but his basic salary is below 15000/- and above 6500/- (as per the earlier slab of deduction), and he has been working with the organization for 4 years but is not willing to have the PF deduction, can his basic be raised to 15001/- or more so that he does not fall under the PF slab?
From India, Vapi
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Hi,
After the new amendment, if any employee's basic + DA was below ₹15,000 (employee present or existing), then PF contribution is mandatory; if it's more than ₹15,000, that's optional.
Earlier, she was not covered under PF, so there was no deduction for that. But now we need to deduct PF from her salary. She has been with the company for the past 2 years.
Yes, it will apply to existing employees as well. You need to deduct her PF contribution from the 1st of September.
From India, Mumbai
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After the new amendment, if any employee's basic + DA was below ₹15,000 (employee present or existing), then PF contribution is mandatory; if it's more than ₹15,000, that's optional.
Earlier, she was not covered under PF, so there was no deduction for that. But now we need to deduct PF from her salary. She has been with the company for the past 2 years.
Yes, it will apply to existing employees as well. You need to deduct her PF contribution from the 1st of September.
From India, Mumbai
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Yes, needs to deduct P.F. But let us be fair enough to employee hence employer also need to contribute. It is not a good management to deduct both the contribution from employee.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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It has been very clearly provided in the PF Act that the employer cannot reduce salary under any pretext to pay for PF or part thereof. So, you cannot deduct the employer's contribution from the salary of the employee.
Please remember that CTC as a concept has no legal standing and is not recognized in law. What the law recognizes is gross wages. Gross wages cannot be reduced. If you try to deduct the PF contribution of the employer from the employee's CTC, either you will be making an illegal deduction (if you are showing it in the payslip) or you will be reducing the gross salary. Both actions are not allowed.
From India, Mumbai
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Please remember that CTC as a concept has no legal standing and is not recognized in law. What the law recognizes is gross wages. Gross wages cannot be reduced. If you try to deduct the PF contribution of the employer from the employee's CTC, either you will be making an illegal deduction (if you are showing it in the payslip) or you will be reducing the gross salary. Both actions are not allowed.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear All,
Related to the PF deduction, the comments along the thread completely clarify that both deductions are not possible from the employee's monthly wage. Only 12% can be deducted from his current basic for the employee's contribution.
Apart from the above query, can anyone explain why an employee who is attaining superannuation next year, but as his basic is less than 15000/-, will be liable for PF deduction? How is it going to help the employee? And why should he/she bear this burden at this point?
From India, Vapi
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Related to the PF deduction, the comments along the thread completely clarify that both deductions are not possible from the employee's monthly wage. Only 12% can be deducted from his current basic for the employee's contribution.
Apart from the above query, can anyone explain why an employee who is attaining superannuation next year, but as his basic is less than 15000/-, will be liable for PF deduction? How is it going to help the employee? And why should he/she bear this burden at this point?
From India, Vapi
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With the increase of 6500 to 15000 EPF coverage ceiling the take Home money Pay of those employees who is having Basic Between 6500 to 15000 will surely get effected(those were not affected till Aug31) and their take home will get reduced.
12 %( Employee share) on Basic has to be paid to EPFO from the Employee side whose basic is 15000 & below. And another 12%Employer share also has to give it to EPFO means total 24% whether the employer share 12% will be calculated in the CTC or extra burden taken by the employer that’s depends upon the employee & employer job agreement.
This is a compulsory Indian social security act obligation to those employees who work in India. No one will get out of it (for excluding refer EPFO Act).
CTC calculation is a pay agreement between individual employee & Employer it’s not a statutory obligation by the government. Only the minimum wage is the obligation by the Government.
Scenario 1: (CTC increased) 12% of Employee share will be detected form the employee that much of take home will be deducted from the employee another 12% share will be given by the employer which is add on burden to employer means the CTC got increased(happy to employees)
Scenario 2: (CTC not increased) CTC will get adjusted to the entire 24% EPF means both employee & employer share will get deducted from the employee’s CTC & it will be paid to EPFO whose basic is below 15000. That means on employees take home 24% will be deducted. (Gov will not interfere in this it make sure the minimum wage is (Basic) paid or not)
Note: EPFO will pay 8.75% Annual Interest on your EPF Money. It’s the best interest rate which you get in the present day be happy with this change.
From India, Hyderabad
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12 %( Employee share) on Basic has to be paid to EPFO from the Employee side whose basic is 15000 & below. And another 12%Employer share also has to give it to EPFO means total 24% whether the employer share 12% will be calculated in the CTC or extra burden taken by the employer that’s depends upon the employee & employer job agreement.
This is a compulsory Indian social security act obligation to those employees who work in India. No one will get out of it (for excluding refer EPFO Act).
CTC calculation is a pay agreement between individual employee & Employer it’s not a statutory obligation by the government. Only the minimum wage is the obligation by the Government.
Scenario 1: (CTC increased) 12% of Employee share will be detected form the employee that much of take home will be deducted from the employee another 12% share will be given by the employer which is add on burden to employer means the CTC got increased(happy to employees)
Scenario 2: (CTC not increased) CTC will get adjusted to the entire 24% EPF means both employee & employer share will get deducted from the employee’s CTC & it will be paid to EPFO whose basic is below 15000. That means on employees take home 24% will be deducted. (Gov will not interfere in this it make sure the minimum wage is (Basic) paid or not)
Note: EPFO will pay 8.75% Annual Interest on your EPF Money. It’s the best interest rate which you get in the present day be happy with this change.
From India, Hyderabad
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Please note : scenario 2 is illegal.
There is a very clear and specific provision in the act that says the salary of an employee can not be reduced to pay part or whole of the PF dues. CTC is not recognised under any indian law. So you need to ensure that the gross salary is not reduced. So under no circumstance can the entire 24% burden get loaded on the employee.
At the next salary hike / increment, adjustment can be made to the CTC but at the moment, it is not possible.
In case you are doing that, the pf department has the right to recover the 12% from you. Besides it will be an offence under payment of wages act as being an illegal deduction.
From India, Mumbai
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There is a very clear and specific provision in the act that says the salary of an employee can not be reduced to pay part or whole of the PF dues. CTC is not recognised under any indian law. So you need to ensure that the gross salary is not reduced. So under no circumstance can the entire 24% burden get loaded on the employee.
At the next salary hike / increment, adjustment can be made to the CTC but at the moment, it is not possible.
In case you are doing that, the pf department has the right to recover the 12% from you. Besides it will be an offence under payment of wages act as being an illegal deduction.
From India, Mumbai
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Respected Saswatabanerjee,
For your kind information, myself and my organization are not operating like Scenario 2. We are not following the CTC system at all. We are paying Employer PF on the actual basic to all employees from the employer's pocket.
However, many companies are adhering to the CTC system. Before discussing these two scenarios, I mentioned that CTC was simply an agreement between the company and the employee. Legally, all these companies are providing minimum wages as per government regulations. Besides that, nothing is considered illegal.
In the CTC concept, CTC means the Cost to the Company, encompassing all expenses incurred by the company on the employee, including seemingly trivial costs like coffee consumed by the employee, which are factored into the CTC (e.g., meal passes).
In this scenario, the employer's share of 12% is also calculated as a Cost to the Company. As per the Scenario 2, this is a legal practice, resulting in a reduction of take-home pay for employees falling under this scenario.
I reiterate that CTC is a mutual agreement between the company and the individual employee. As per regulations, minimum wages and employer contributions are being paid. My point is, for those falling under Scenario 2, their take-home pay will be impacted.
Kind regards,
[Your Name]
From India, Hyderabad
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For your kind information, myself and my organization are not operating like Scenario 2. We are not following the CTC system at all. We are paying Employer PF on the actual basic to all employees from the employer's pocket.
However, many companies are adhering to the CTC system. Before discussing these two scenarios, I mentioned that CTC was simply an agreement between the company and the employee. Legally, all these companies are providing minimum wages as per government regulations. Besides that, nothing is considered illegal.
In the CTC concept, CTC means the Cost to the Company, encompassing all expenses incurred by the company on the employee, including seemingly trivial costs like coffee consumed by the employee, which are factored into the CTC (e.g., meal passes).
In this scenario, the employer's share of 12% is also calculated as a Cost to the Company. As per the Scenario 2, this is a legal practice, resulting in a reduction of take-home pay for employees falling under this scenario.
I reiterate that CTC is a mutual agreement between the company and the individual employee. As per regulations, minimum wages and employer contributions are being paid. My point is, for those falling under Scenario 2, their take-home pay will be impacted.
Kind regards,
[Your Name]
From India, Hyderabad
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Please see sec 12 of PF Act below:
12. Employer not to reduce wages, etc.
No employer in relation to an establishment to which any Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies shall, by reason only of his liability for the payment of any contribution to the Fund or the Insurance Fund or any charges under this Act or the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme reduce whether directly or indirectly, the wages of any employee to whom the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies or the total quantum of benefits in the nature of old age pension, gratuity, provident fund, or life insurance to which the employee is entitled under the terms of his employment, express, or implied.
So, since wages are gross wages, you cannot bring it down directly or indirectly for payment of PF, or for any change in the amount of PF payable. Anyone who does that under the guise of CTC is making an illegal deduction, irrespective of whether the employee agreed to the concept of CTC.
From India, Mumbai
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12. Employer not to reduce wages, etc.
No employer in relation to an establishment to which any Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies shall, by reason only of his liability for the payment of any contribution to the Fund or the Insurance Fund or any charges under this Act or the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme reduce whether directly or indirectly, the wages of any employee to whom the Scheme or the Insurance Scheme applies or the total quantum of benefits in the nature of old age pension, gratuity, provident fund, or life insurance to which the employee is entitled under the terms of his employment, express, or implied.
So, since wages are gross wages, you cannot bring it down directly or indirectly for payment of PF, or for any change in the amount of PF payable. Anyone who does that under the guise of CTC is making an illegal deduction, irrespective of whether the employee agreed to the concept of CTC.
From India, Mumbai
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Concept of CTC and enhancement of PF coverage limit.
CTC prior to enhancement of PF coverage limit
CTC after enhancement of PF coverage limit
Basic: 10000 / 10000
HRA: 6000 / 6000
TOTAL MONTHLY Gross: 16000 / 16000
PF DEDUCTION EMPLOYEE: 780 / 1200
NET TAKE HOME SALARY: 15220 / 14800
EMPLOYER'S PORTION OF PF: 890 / 1361
CTC: 16890 / 17361
Therefore, take-home salary will be less, and CTC will increase. (Calculation has been made considering PF deduction only on the statutory limit).
S K Bandyopadhyay
Email: skb@usdhrs.in
+919831081531
From India, New Delhi
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CTC prior to enhancement of PF coverage limit
CTC after enhancement of PF coverage limit
Basic: 10000 / 10000
HRA: 6000 / 6000
TOTAL MONTHLY Gross: 16000 / 16000
PF DEDUCTION EMPLOYEE: 780 / 1200
NET TAKE HOME SALARY: 15220 / 14800
EMPLOYER'S PORTION OF PF: 890 / 1361
CTC: 16890 / 17361
Therefore, take-home salary will be less, and CTC will increase. (Calculation has been made considering PF deduction only on the statutory limit).
S K Bandyopadhyay
Email: skb@usdhrs.in
+919831081531
From India, New Delhi
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Dear All,
As recommended by some of my friends, the assertion that CTC has no legal standing is absolutely correct. Nowadays, many organizations are even designing their pay packages based on CTC. It is also correct that employer contributions to PF and ESI cannot be deducted from an employee's gross salary.
Let's consider an example: Monthly gross pay of 14,000/- (Basic - 8000/-, HRA - 3000/-, and other allowances - 3000/-). Yearly gross = 14,000/- x 12 = 1,68,000/-. ESI employer contribution = 7980/- per annum, Bonus as per act (20%) = 8400/- annually, Welfare benefits (canteen subsidy, tea, coffee, etc.) = 15,520/- per annum. No PF deduction as an excluded employee. Total CTC before September 2014 (Before PF amendment) = 2,00,000/- per annum. From September 2014 after the PF amendment, the employee is covered under PF, and the employer contribution to PF will be 13,065/- per annum. Therefore, the new CTC will be 2,13,065/- from September 2014. Previously, the take-home salary of the employee was the monthly gross minus ESI employee contribution minus PTAX if applicable. Now, the take-home salary will be the monthly gross minus ESI employee contribution minus PF employee contribution minus PTAX if applicable.
Nowadays, it is really complicated to create a scientific pay structure considering minimum wage, PF gross, ESI gross, ITAX rebate pocket, variable pay, etc.
Thanks and Regards,
S K Bandyopadhyay
USD HR Solutions
+9198310 81531
From India, New Delhi
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As recommended by some of my friends, the assertion that CTC has no legal standing is absolutely correct. Nowadays, many organizations are even designing their pay packages based on CTC. It is also correct that employer contributions to PF and ESI cannot be deducted from an employee's gross salary.
Let's consider an example: Monthly gross pay of 14,000/- (Basic - 8000/-, HRA - 3000/-, and other allowances - 3000/-). Yearly gross = 14,000/- x 12 = 1,68,000/-. ESI employer contribution = 7980/- per annum, Bonus as per act (20%) = 8400/- annually, Welfare benefits (canteen subsidy, tea, coffee, etc.) = 15,520/- per annum. No PF deduction as an excluded employee. Total CTC before September 2014 (Before PF amendment) = 2,00,000/- per annum. From September 2014 after the PF amendment, the employee is covered under PF, and the employer contribution to PF will be 13,065/- per annum. Therefore, the new CTC will be 2,13,065/- from September 2014. Previously, the take-home salary of the employee was the monthly gross minus ESI employee contribution minus PTAX if applicable. Now, the take-home salary will be the monthly gross minus ESI employee contribution minus PF employee contribution minus PTAX if applicable.
Nowadays, it is really complicated to create a scientific pay structure considering minimum wage, PF gross, ESI gross, ITAX rebate pocket, variable pay, etc.
Thanks and Regards,
S K Bandyopadhyay
USD HR Solutions
+9198310 81531
From India, New Delhi
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If an new employee basic is more than 15000/- than it is compulsory to deduct provident fund or not
From India, Kakinada
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From India, Kakinada
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Dear All,
One of our employees is receiving a (Basic+DA) of over 15000/-, and their PF amount is being regularly contributed to the PF authority. However, they now wish to be exempted from this.
Is there any provision in the EPF Act for this?
Please assist me with this matter.
Regards, SHIVANAND
From India, Bengaluru
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One of our employees is receiving a (Basic+DA) of over 15000/-, and their PF amount is being regularly contributed to the PF authority. However, they now wish to be exempted from this.
Is there any provision in the EPF Act for this?
Please assist me with this matter.
Regards, SHIVANAND
From India, Bengaluru
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My basic 7540 and now company tell conver in ctc so how much my ctc figure nd also tell 24% pf cut. So gov rule it right or wrong???
From India, Ahmedabad
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From India, Ahmedabad
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If the fixed CTC is 6.3 lpa, the employer's contribution to PF is 1800 INR. There is no mention of the employee's PF in the salary breakup. I just wanted to check if in the fixed CTC, both employer PF and employee PF contributions are deducted with tax, or only the employer PF is deducted. Once we leave the organization, are we eligible to claim both the employer and employee contributions to PF?
From India, undefined
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From India, undefined
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