Hi all,
Our written warning currently has the following wording:-
I, by virtue of my signature warrant that I believe the disciplinary enquiry to have been conducted fairly and that I accept the sanction imposed on me as fair and just.
One of our employees is refusing to sign a warning given to her and now her Supervisor is questioning the above. He thinks she is refusing to sign because of this clause??
is this and acceptable wording on a warning letter?
From South Africa, Johannesburg
Our written warning currently has the following wording:-
I, by virtue of my signature warrant that I believe the disciplinary enquiry to have been conducted fairly and that I accept the sanction imposed on me as fair and just.
One of our employees is refusing to sign a warning given to her and now her Supervisor is questioning the above. He thinks she is refusing to sign because of this clause??
is this and acceptable wording on a warning letter?
From South Africa, Johannesburg
Dear Crossfire,
The wording that you have written is quite clumsy. One who reads it will not be able to make out whether you want to obtain statement from the witness of the disciplinary enquiry that it was conducted in fair manner or you want to issue a warning letter.
You need to clarify:
a) What was the situation? Where did it happen? Did it happen in company premises or out of company premises?
b) What were the terms of reference of enquiry?
c) Who was the enquiry officer?
d) How many witnesses were there?
e) What material evidence you had?
f) When the enquiry was ordered and when it was conducted? How many days Enquiry officer took to complete enquiry?
g) Has Enquiry Officer recommended any punishment? (If it is so, please make a note that enquiry officer cannot recommend any punishment. His job is only to find out who was guilty and on what charges)
h) Do you have approved and certified standing orders?
g) The punishment that you will award to the guilty, is it in consonance with the standing orders?
h) Have the principles of natural justice been followed in the course of enquiry?
It would not be feasible to provide any assistance to you unless you provide the complete information.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
.
From India, Bangalore
7884The wording that you have written is quite clumsy. One who reads it will not be able to make out whether you want to obtain statement from the witness of the disciplinary enquiry that it was conducted in fair manner or you want to issue a warning letter.
You need to clarify:
a) What was the situation? Where did it happen? Did it happen in company premises or out of company premises?
b) What were the terms of reference of enquiry?
c) Who was the enquiry officer?
d) How many witnesses were there?
e) What material evidence you had?
f) When the enquiry was ordered and when it was conducted? How many days Enquiry officer took to complete enquiry?
g) Has Enquiry Officer recommended any punishment? (If it is so, please make a note that enquiry officer cannot recommend any punishment. His job is only to find out who was guilty and on what charges)
h) Do you have approved and certified standing orders?
g) The punishment that you will award to the guilty, is it in consonance with the standing orders?
h) Have the principles of natural justice been followed in the course of enquiry?
It would not be feasible to provide any assistance to you unless you provide the complete information.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
.
From India, Bangalore
Hello crossfire,
Dinesh V Divekar is right.
Basically what he means is this: pl mention the general procedure/process of any Inquiry in your Company.
When even the Supervisor of this employee has supported her, there does seem to be some mismatch in what you are attempting to do & how it's 'perceived' by the employee(s).
This could be a sort of warning bell for you to correct any lacunae in the Procedure.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dinesh V Divekar is right.
Basically what he means is this: pl mention the general procedure/process of any Inquiry in your Company.
When even the Supervisor of this employee has supported her, there does seem to be some mismatch in what you are attempting to do & how it's 'perceived' by the employee(s).
This could be a sort of warning bell for you to correct any lacunae in the Procedure.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
The way the clause was drafted, sounds like there is Crossfire between the employee and the one who wants to get it signed. Honestly speaking, I am not able to interpret it. Its reflects dictatorship style and acceptance by force.
Kindly do respond to all those queries raised by Mr. Dinesh.
Crossfire, we all would be glad if you could introduce yourself with relevant details. Its really unprofessional approach to have a junk id and posting queries without appropriate information in either way.
You had demonstrated that, you do not possess HIGH MATURITY SKILLS and lot more.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Kindly do respond to all those queries raised by Mr. Dinesh.
Crossfire, we all would be glad if you could introduce yourself with relevant details. Its really unprofessional approach to have a junk id and posting queries without appropriate information in either way.
You had demonstrated that, you do not possess HIGH MATURITY SKILLS and lot more.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Dear Crossfire,
Dinesh Divekar has raised very valid points. I will raise some more.
Have you asked the employee why she refuses to sign?
Would you have signed such a document if it were issued to you?
What is the option if an employee felt that the enquiry had not been conducted fairly?
What is the option if an employee felt that the enquiry was conducted fairly but the sanction imposed was unfair and unjust?
I hope you get my point.
Without having all the details it is like answering "How to get to Delhi and how long will it take?".
Have a lovely day.
Simhan
Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.)
The University of Bolton, UK.
"It is never too late to learn or improve oneself"
From United Kingdom
Dinesh Divekar has raised very valid points. I will raise some more.
Have you asked the employee why she refuses to sign?
Would you have signed such a document if it were issued to you?
What is the option if an employee felt that the enquiry had not been conducted fairly?
What is the option if an employee felt that the enquiry was conducted fairly but the sanction imposed was unfair and unjust?
I hope you get my point.
Without having all the details it is like answering "How to get to Delhi and how long will it take?".
Have a lovely day.
Simhan
Learning and Teaching Fellow (Retd.)
The University of Bolton, UK.
"It is never too late to learn or improve oneself"
From United Kingdom
Dear all!!!! Let me add my part, this is ridiculous, to say the least. First of all it is a warning letter. If it is a warning letter, then why such an undertaking. It is not needed since warning does n't need the whole enquiry process to have gone through. Hence I feel it is preposterous for such a signed undertaking. But if the disciplinary process is completed and a warrant that it was just and fair like this cannot save any inherent defect in the process. So in any manner this sort of certification is not going to help. Not only she, any right thinking person will have reservation on signing such a format. Legally, such a document is not going to be of much help. Regards KK
From India, Bhopal
From India, Bhopal
Dear All,
In any case issuing issuing warning letter is not valid until unless you give him/her a chance to defend. So, as per my view first issue a show casue notice asking the reasons for the cause. Then after considering to the reply to show cause notice issue a warning letter.
If you want the specimen warning letter please write.
Regards,
chandru
From India, Madras
In any case issuing issuing warning letter is not valid until unless you give him/her a chance to defend. So, as per my view first issue a show casue notice asking the reasons for the cause. Then after considering to the reply to show cause notice issue a warning letter.
If you want the specimen warning letter please write.
Regards,
chandru
From India, Madras
Basically a "WARNING" does not impose any "SANCTION". A warning is an advance information to the
concerned to correct himself/herself, as he/she was found to have committed unacceptable act/acts
as per the Rules and Regulations of the Company. Even this warning, should be given after
conducting a thorough enquiry as per the act.
When a warning letter is issued to an erring employee, he/she does not warrant anything or he/she
does not give a statement saying he/she "believes", because, the whole process of enquiry has been
(should have been) conducted as per the act, with witnesses around.
The so called "warning" mentioned in your mail is totally inappropriate and
with this type of "declaration", even if it is signed by the employee who is supposed to get the
warning, this will NOT stand in a court of law.
Whenever you need assistance/help, unless the whole issue is made known, you will most probably
get only a part of the help, which at times will put you in trouble. Hence please be TRANSPARENT in
what you want.
G. RAMAKRISHNAN
.
From India, Madras
concerned to correct himself/herself, as he/she was found to have committed unacceptable act/acts
as per the Rules and Regulations of the Company. Even this warning, should be given after
conducting a thorough enquiry as per the act.
When a warning letter is issued to an erring employee, he/she does not warrant anything or he/she
does not give a statement saying he/she "believes", because, the whole process of enquiry has been
(should have been) conducted as per the act, with witnesses around.
The so called "warning" mentioned in your mail is totally inappropriate and
with this type of "declaration", even if it is signed by the employee who is supposed to get the
warning, this will NOT stand in a court of law.
Whenever you need assistance/help, unless the whole issue is made known, you will most probably
get only a part of the help, which at times will put you in trouble. Hence please be TRANSPARENT in
what you want.
G. RAMAKRISHNAN
.
From India, Madras
Hi, the very wording of the warning letter smells highhandedness. In anyn case acceptance of such condition will not help in any manner. Infact likely to backfire if challenged in appropriate court.
Ravindra Pund
From India, Pune
Ravindra Pund
From India, Pune
Hi,
I understand that such a sentence / clause would have been added by management to cover themselves against any appeal procedures or external litigation. However, it is too contrived and too obviously a management tool. Provide a warning letter in the presence of a management witness and hopefully the company has an in-house appeal procedure, should the employee feel that he/she has been disadvantaged.
From Australia
I understand that such a sentence / clause would have been added by management to cover themselves against any appeal procedures or external litigation. However, it is too contrived and too obviously a management tool. Provide a warning letter in the presence of a management witness and hopefully the company has an in-house appeal procedure, should the employee feel that he/she has been disadvantaged.
From Australia
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WARNING LETTER FOR ABSENCE.doc