Hello, Can please someone help regarding leave without pay and Absent ?
As we encounter the newcomers in the office they take it very lightly and sometimes they take unplanned leaves in spite of no leaves in their account or some employee doesn't even inform anyone while taking day off.
My question is what difference we can make between two in leave without pay or absent because in both situation company deduct the salary so employee take it like okay just deduct the salary it's fine.
How can i minimize it or how can i make a difference between two types ?
Help needed from one HR to another. Thanks
From India, Delhi
As we encounter the newcomers in the office they take it very lightly and sometimes they take unplanned leaves in spite of no leaves in their account or some employee doesn't even inform anyone while taking day off.
My question is what difference we can make between two in leave without pay or absent because in both situation company deduct the salary so employee take it like okay just deduct the salary it's fine.
How can i minimize it or how can i make a difference between two types ?
Help needed from one HR to another. Thanks
From India, Delhi
In both the cases there will be loss of pay but Frequency of absenteeism might lead to disciplinary process and will impact in PMS, but approved leave irrespective of LOP will not have any such impacts
From India, Bangalore
639From India, Bangalore
Hi, Absence always indicates indiscipline. Leave without pay is on permission he is on leave. LWP indicates absence with permission.
From India, Bengaluru
From India, Bengaluru
Absence may be authorized or unauthorized. If there is no leave in the credit or management decide not to sanction the leave for several reasons, then that absence will be considered as without pay.
Without pay leave maybe authorized. Say one employee is suffering with illness but all the leave has been exhausted, in that case management may sanction authorized leave without pay.
Enjoying more number of unauthorized leave is not good for any employee's career.
S K Bandyopadhyay ( WB, Howrah )
CEO-USD HR Solutions
+91 98310 81531
From India, New Delhi
Without pay leave maybe authorized. Say one employee is suffering with illness but all the leave has been exhausted, in that case management may sanction authorized leave without pay.
Enjoying more number of unauthorized leave is not good for any employee's career.
S K Bandyopadhyay ( WB, Howrah )
CEO-USD HR Solutions
+91 98310 81531
From India, New Delhi
Leave without pay is authorised but resulting in deduction of salary as there is no eligible leaves in credit. This will not be a misconduct.
But absence is, the employee absenting without permission and employer is not regularising it with eligible Leave or as Leave without pay. This may invite disciplinary action or break in service for gratuity.
Varghese Mathew
9961266966
HR law Adviser -Trivandrum
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
But absence is, the employee absenting without permission and employer is not regularising it with eligible Leave or as Leave without pay. This may invite disciplinary action or break in service for gratuity.
Varghese Mathew
9961266966
HR law Adviser -Trivandrum
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
Thanks all for your input. How can i minimize the leaves taking by an employee who is still in probation and every time he/she comes with illness excuse. How many time you will approve while you know it it might be a lie but still you can't do anything.
2nd My director asked me to differentiate the LWP and Absent though i have told her in both the cases salary will be deducted but is there any other solution i can add with it because now people take permission for LWP and they are not bothered if there salary will be deducted for those days.
Please pour your suggestions on this too. Thankyou
From India, Delhi
2nd My director asked me to differentiate the LWP and Absent though i have told her in both the cases salary will be deducted but is there any other solution i can add with it because now people take permission for LWP and they are not bothered if there salary will be deducted for those days.
Please pour your suggestions on this too. Thankyou
From India, Delhi
Dear Annie R,
You have raised the issue of unplanned leave or unplanned leave without information from a legal point of view. However, I wish you had examined it from the HR Management perspective.
If the newly joined employees proceed on leave without obtaining proper authorisation, or if they do not even bother to inform the authorities concerned, then it demonstrates their casual attitude towards their job. During the recruitment process, did you ascertain whether they genuinely required employment? If they did, are they serious about their career? Are they sensitive toward their family responsibilities?
If an individual does not take his/her family seriously, then he/she will not take his/her job seriously. Therefore, the malaise lies in recruiting individuals who lack the ambition to grow.
While you may take disciplinary action against the delinquent employees, this is not a productive long-term solution. You may counsel them, and those who remain unresponsive may be terminated. When recruiting their replacements, please conduct tests to assess their career-consciousness.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
You have raised the issue of unplanned leave or unplanned leave without information from a legal point of view. However, I wish you had examined it from the HR Management perspective.
If the newly joined employees proceed on leave without obtaining proper authorisation, or if they do not even bother to inform the authorities concerned, then it demonstrates their casual attitude towards their job. During the recruitment process, did you ascertain whether they genuinely required employment? If they did, are they serious about their career? Are they sensitive toward their family responsibilities?
If an individual does not take his/her family seriously, then he/she will not take his/her job seriously. Therefore, the malaise lies in recruiting individuals who lack the ambition to grow.
While you may take disciplinary action against the delinquent employees, this is not a productive long-term solution. You may counsel them, and those who remain unresponsive may be terminated. When recruiting their replacements, please conduct tests to assess their career-consciousness.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Difference ? Yes the whole world of difference between the two absenteeism. Of course both are 'Without pay' but money is not the criteria but the culture, discipline and attitude are the matter in between. First, LOP= Leave Without Pay is an authorised leave when there is no sufficient days available to the credit of the employee's leave a/c and the employee has to go on leave on compelling circumstances like sickness, social reasons like marriage, other functions and some times even for completing the left over degree course. This kind of LOP rarely "applied & approved" as a special case. Secondly, this LOP is availed with the consent of the management hence no ambiguity on either side. Third, there is a certainty that on expiry of LOP the employee concerned is rejoining duty. Fourth, in availing LOP there is no threat of 'indiscipline'.
On the other hand, 'Absent' errs on all the above four counts and hence not taken lightly and not to be encouraged at all. Moreover, Fifth, in case of LOP there is a possibility that these leave days can be reckoned for determining 'continuity of service' without 'a break in service' (subject to discretion of management) for all purposes not only for payment of gratuity but also determining 'seniority', grant of increment etc.
Absenteeism, when occasionally "happens", in intrusive circumstances, may be exonerated with valid & acceptable reasons. But if is repeated, it becomes "habitual" which leads to initiation of disciplinary proceedings resulting termination ultimately. Not to be encouraged at all. Therefore suitable clauses are necessary in the 'terms & conditions' of appointment to safe guard the interest of the employer's commitment and to uphold 'work culture' in the organisation. Employment/work places is not a bus station or railway station to walk-in or walk-out at will. Where there is no work culture & discipline that organisation's work cannot be carried on.
And worse is 'if it happens' during probation. It's true an employee might require a couple of days of leave at any point of time irrespective of whether during probationary period or thereafter, unfortunately leave is 'earned' after rendering one year of uninterrupted service. May be some organisation allow/grant full or part quota of CL to address leave during the first year of entry into service. Probably even EL/PL proportionately for the months served if not full year subject to leave policy permitting such a privilege. I have seen many organisation stricly don't allow leave during probation. Supposing for inevitable reasons leave has to be considered, then there is a possibility of granting a few days leave subject to the condition that the 'probation period' gets extended by those many days of leave applied/granted This is the solution.
I strongly suggest you should have strict leave policy to deal with 'habitual absenteeism', not reporting to work without intimation. This call for 'capital punishment' such as 'break in service' deferment of increment, reversal of cadre etc.in case repeated once. Thereafter suspension, termination etc may follow. Such instances should not be let go without proper inquiry at the department level atleast and should be 'rarest of rare'.
From India, Bangalore
On the other hand, 'Absent' errs on all the above four counts and hence not taken lightly and not to be encouraged at all. Moreover, Fifth, in case of LOP there is a possibility that these leave days can be reckoned for determining 'continuity of service' without 'a break in service' (subject to discretion of management) for all purposes not only for payment of gratuity but also determining 'seniority', grant of increment etc.
Absenteeism, when occasionally "happens", in intrusive circumstances, may be exonerated with valid & acceptable reasons. But if is repeated, it becomes "habitual" which leads to initiation of disciplinary proceedings resulting termination ultimately. Not to be encouraged at all. Therefore suitable clauses are necessary in the 'terms & conditions' of appointment to safe guard the interest of the employer's commitment and to uphold 'work culture' in the organisation. Employment/work places is not a bus station or railway station to walk-in or walk-out at will. Where there is no work culture & discipline that organisation's work cannot be carried on.
And worse is 'if it happens' during probation. It's true an employee might require a couple of days of leave at any point of time irrespective of whether during probationary period or thereafter, unfortunately leave is 'earned' after rendering one year of uninterrupted service. May be some organisation allow/grant full or part quota of CL to address leave during the first year of entry into service. Probably even EL/PL proportionately for the months served if not full year subject to leave policy permitting such a privilege. I have seen many organisation stricly don't allow leave during probation. Supposing for inevitable reasons leave has to be considered, then there is a possibility of granting a few days leave subject to the condition that the 'probation period' gets extended by those many days of leave applied/granted This is the solution.
I strongly suggest you should have strict leave policy to deal with 'habitual absenteeism', not reporting to work without intimation. This call for 'capital punishment' such as 'break in service' deferment of increment, reversal of cadre etc.in case repeated once. Thereafter suspension, termination etc may follow. Such instances should not be let go without proper inquiry at the department level atleast and should be 'rarest of rare'.
From India, Bangalore
Dear,
You can not simply wipe out the problems encountered in day today business. The newcomers in your office do not have leave in their account but their absent in lieu of leave can't be treated unplanned leaves. The employees remain absent without information are liable for action, as per the rules. The both the category of employees are liable for action, if remained absent from duty without information. We don't know about the leave policies of your company and other policies or having standing orders.
From India, Mumbai
You can not simply wipe out the problems encountered in day today business. The newcomers in your office do not have leave in their account but their absent in lieu of leave can't be treated unplanned leaves. The employees remain absent without information are liable for action, as per the rules. The both the category of employees are liable for action, if remained absent from duty without information. We don't know about the leave policies of your company and other policies or having standing orders.
From India, Mumbai
Sir/Madam,
If an employee goes to his supervisor for sanctioning leave :-
(1)(a) If he /She has no credit leave in his account :-
(i) sanction by supervisor, it is Leave Without Pay.
(ii) if employee does not come to office without informing supervisor, it is absent.
(2)(a) If he /She has credit leave in his account :-
(i) sanction by supervisor, it is Leave sanction.
(ii) if employee does not come to office without informing supervisor, his/her leave may
be sanction by supervisor latter. If sanction it is sanction leave, if not sanction it is
absent but not leave without pay.
An employee may choose his/her type of leave for sanction if he /she has fulfill conditions relating to that leave.
From India, Indore
If an employee goes to his supervisor for sanctioning leave :-
(1)(a) If he /She has no credit leave in his account :-
(i) sanction by supervisor, it is Leave Without Pay.
(ii) if employee does not come to office without informing supervisor, it is absent.
(2)(a) If he /She has credit leave in his account :-
(i) sanction by supervisor, it is Leave sanction.
(ii) if employee does not come to office without informing supervisor, his/her leave may
be sanction by supervisor latter. If sanction it is sanction leave, if not sanction it is
absent but not leave without pay.
An employee may choose his/her type of leave for sanction if he /she has fulfill conditions relating to that leave.
From India, Indore
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