Dear All,
Greetings!
My heartiest wishes for DIWALI.
May be god will give you a lot of wonderful coming years.
I had a concern about the human resource prctice in big Brands.
Today itself i have come across a situation where i am not comfortable with my company human resource practices.
We had come across a situation which i want to share with all of you.
In my company an employee who is working with us for last 25 years, had commited a mistake. He is working in a credit department and due to some reasons he is not able to follow up for the bills worth of 40 lakhs with the ministry which shows his negligence in duties.
He had a clean record on his name in 25 years.
Company had not even issued a single warning letter on his name. In this incident also, company had not issued any memo but directly suspended him for 7 days ( Standing order of company is for 6 days).
In continuation, company had issued him a chargesheet asking for explantaion within 48 hrs.
My question is that whether it was right to suspend an employee directly only in one negligence, whether we have not to conduct enquiry or other procedures to be followed.
If a person is suspended for a misconduct, Can we issue a chargesheet for the same and writing that your suspension will be extended etc.
The only problem is in our management(General manager where they are ready to throw out an employee in a second. Our general manager does not speal prperly to employees.
IF we say that big brands have good human resource practice or they say the employees are their assests only by giving welfare of LTA, Medicals etc. Whether is it right.
What should be the procedure adopted in this case.
As a junior most person, its to difficult to accept this decison that the management had taken.
In my previous post also i had writeen that my HR Manager knows only to manage by hook or by crook. She just know what happens in one company itself as she is baby of this comapny.
I would appreciate, if you suggest me the correct procedure and the measures that this employee can take against the amangement.
Its so painful to see things like this that every second day you are suspending employees and their is no boday who can stand for them as unions are management friendly asthey know only to do their benefits only.(This employee is in Executive cadre).
Would appreciate early responses.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
11Greetings!
My heartiest wishes for DIWALI.
May be god will give you a lot of wonderful coming years.
I had a concern about the human resource prctice in big Brands.
Today itself i have come across a situation where i am not comfortable with my company human resource practices.
We had come across a situation which i want to share with all of you.
In my company an employee who is working with us for last 25 years, had commited a mistake. He is working in a credit department and due to some reasons he is not able to follow up for the bills worth of 40 lakhs with the ministry which shows his negligence in duties.
He had a clean record on his name in 25 years.
Company had not even issued a single warning letter on his name. In this incident also, company had not issued any memo but directly suspended him for 7 days ( Standing order of company is for 6 days).
In continuation, company had issued him a chargesheet asking for explantaion within 48 hrs.
My question is that whether it was right to suspend an employee directly only in one negligence, whether we have not to conduct enquiry or other procedures to be followed.
If a person is suspended for a misconduct, Can we issue a chargesheet for the same and writing that your suspension will be extended etc.
The only problem is in our management(General manager where they are ready to throw out an employee in a second. Our general manager does not speal prperly to employees.
IF we say that big brands have good human resource practice or they say the employees are their assests only by giving welfare of LTA, Medicals etc. Whether is it right.
What should be the procedure adopted in this case.
As a junior most person, its to difficult to accept this decison that the management had taken.
In my previous post also i had writeen that my HR Manager knows only to manage by hook or by crook. She just know what happens in one company itself as she is baby of this comapny.
I would appreciate, if you suggest me the correct procedure and the measures that this employee can take against the amangement.
Its so painful to see things like this that every second day you are suspending employees and their is no boday who can stand for them as unions are management friendly asthey know only to do their benefits only.(This employee is in Executive cadre).
Would appreciate early responses.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
Dear Ranjeet,
Let us analyse the issue step by step.
a) "In my company an employee who is working with us for last 25 years, had commited a mistake. He is working in a credit department and due to some reasons he is not able to follow up for the bills worth of 40 lakhs with the ministry which shows his negligence in duties"
Comments: - 40 lakhs is a too bigger amount. Why he did not follow up with the client? The reasons need to be investigated. Law does not take into account the length of service of anybody.
b) "He had a clean record on his name in 25 years.
Company had not even issued a single warning letter on his name. In this incident also, company had not issued any memo but directly suspended him for 7 days ( Standing order of company is for 6 days) "
Comments: - Law does not take into account past clean record especially considering the severity of the mistake. May be that so far he could be doing misappropriation of funds but he was caught now.
Suspension pending enquiry is perfectly all right. If the accused is not suspended there is every possibility of his tampering with the records and evidence. To avoid this, management has suspended him. During this period, he is eligible for subsistence allowance.
c) "In continuation, company had issued him a chargesheet asking for explantaion within 48 hrs.
My question is that whether it was right to suspend an employee directly only in one negligence, whether we have not to conduct enquiry or other procedures to be followed."
Comments: - Before issuing the charge sheet, company should have ordered enquiry. Charge sheet can be issued directly only for smaller offences. Not for the offence of this magnitude. Charge sheet comes after enquiry and not before the enquiry.
d) "IF we say that big brands have good human resource practice or they say the employees are their assests only by giving welfare of LTA, Medicals etc. Whether is it right."
Comments: - It is not a question iof big or small brand. Discipline is a foundation of any organisation. To create a culture of discipline, instances of this kind need to be handled with iron hand. It sends a message to one and all that what fate, corrupt or negligent employees can invite. More than its application, essence of law lies in its deterrence. Mr Ranjeet you may note that India has more problems because of lack of discipline and not because of lack of intelligence or intelligent people
Secondly justice is also foundation of any organisation. Your management must ensure that justice is done to the accused employee and to the organisation also.
e) "Its so painful to see things like this that every second day you are suspending employees and their is no boday who can stand for them as unions are management friendly asthey know only to do their benefits only.(This employee is in Executive cadre)"
Comments: - Managers must think from head and not from heart. Head Vs Heart is old debate and old challenge to the managers. You are pained because you are thinking from your head. Progress happens when issues are handled dispassionately or without involving emotions. I have read it in newspaper that an American employee was fired since she came 43 minutes late after the lunch break.
The accused employee can defend himself by citing evidence of the steps that he took to recover the money. Did he keep his superiors informed of his inability to recover the outstanding amount etc. Notwithstanding this, his culpability is still established since he suppressed the material facts from his superiors. In these times of recession, there is a great crunch of capital. Employees need to put up aggressive efforts to release the chocked up working capital.
Your management needs to look at the incident rather than person. Investigation of the incident can raise the following questions:
a) Was the Manager of the employee in question knew of this credit? What steps he took to guide this employee?
b) Why this issue was not discussed in the weekly or fortnightly credit review meeting? If discussed, then what was the outcome?
c) After how much time period this credit was discovered? Why it was not brought in the monthly reconciliation by Accounts or audit department?
Answers to these questions would reveal culpability of the higher officials as well. Merely punishing to this employee would tantamount to finding a scapegoat allowing the seniors to go scot free. .
I am not legal expert. I have given my opinions based on my experience. However, Mr RN Khola and Mr JS Malik are the right persons to have clarifications from the legal point of view.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Let us analyse the issue step by step.
a) "In my company an employee who is working with us for last 25 years, had commited a mistake. He is working in a credit department and due to some reasons he is not able to follow up for the bills worth of 40 lakhs with the ministry which shows his negligence in duties"
Comments: - 40 lakhs is a too bigger amount. Why he did not follow up with the client? The reasons need to be investigated. Law does not take into account the length of service of anybody.
b) "He had a clean record on his name in 25 years.
Company had not even issued a single warning letter on his name. In this incident also, company had not issued any memo but directly suspended him for 7 days ( Standing order of company is for 6 days) "
Comments: - Law does not take into account past clean record especially considering the severity of the mistake. May be that so far he could be doing misappropriation of funds but he was caught now.
Suspension pending enquiry is perfectly all right. If the accused is not suspended there is every possibility of his tampering with the records and evidence. To avoid this, management has suspended him. During this period, he is eligible for subsistence allowance.
c) "In continuation, company had issued him a chargesheet asking for explantaion within 48 hrs.
My question is that whether it was right to suspend an employee directly only in one negligence, whether we have not to conduct enquiry or other procedures to be followed."
Comments: - Before issuing the charge sheet, company should have ordered enquiry. Charge sheet can be issued directly only for smaller offences. Not for the offence of this magnitude. Charge sheet comes after enquiry and not before the enquiry.
d) "IF we say that big brands have good human resource practice or they say the employees are their assests only by giving welfare of LTA, Medicals etc. Whether is it right."
Comments: - It is not a question iof big or small brand. Discipline is a foundation of any organisation. To create a culture of discipline, instances of this kind need to be handled with iron hand. It sends a message to one and all that what fate, corrupt or negligent employees can invite. More than its application, essence of law lies in its deterrence. Mr Ranjeet you may note that India has more problems because of lack of discipline and not because of lack of intelligence or intelligent people
Secondly justice is also foundation of any organisation. Your management must ensure that justice is done to the accused employee and to the organisation also.
e) "Its so painful to see things like this that every second day you are suspending employees and their is no boday who can stand for them as unions are management friendly asthey know only to do their benefits only.(This employee is in Executive cadre)"
Comments: - Managers must think from head and not from heart. Head Vs Heart is old debate and old challenge to the managers. You are pained because you are thinking from your head. Progress happens when issues are handled dispassionately or without involving emotions. I have read it in newspaper that an American employee was fired since she came 43 minutes late after the lunch break.
The accused employee can defend himself by citing evidence of the steps that he took to recover the money. Did he keep his superiors informed of his inability to recover the outstanding amount etc. Notwithstanding this, his culpability is still established since he suppressed the material facts from his superiors. In these times of recession, there is a great crunch of capital. Employees need to put up aggressive efforts to release the chocked up working capital.
Your management needs to look at the incident rather than person. Investigation of the incident can raise the following questions:
a) Was the Manager of the employee in question knew of this credit? What steps he took to guide this employee?
b) Why this issue was not discussed in the weekly or fortnightly credit review meeting? If discussed, then what was the outcome?
c) After how much time period this credit was discovered? Why it was not brought in the monthly reconciliation by Accounts or audit department?
Answers to these questions would reveal culpability of the higher officials as well. Merely punishing to this employee would tantamount to finding a scapegoat allowing the seniors to go scot free. .
I am not legal expert. I have given my opinions based on my experience. However, Mr RN Khola and Mr JS Malik are the right persons to have clarifications from the legal point of view.
Thanks,
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Mr Divekar,
Your reply is perfectly right. The employee in question is suspended pending enquiry. He is served with a charge sheet. He has an opportunity
to reply to the charge sheet and defend him in the enquiry to be conducted subsequently. He is also entitled for subsistance allowance. In case of a grave misconduct the employer has the right to suspend an employee immediately even without giving the charge sheet. Charge sheet can be framed only after conducting a preliminary investigation to assess the extent of the omission or commission.
If the suspended employee proves his innocence in the domestic enquiry, his suspension would be revoked and he can join back on duty with full salary (arrears) from the date of his suspension.
Discipline is a must. Financial discipline is utmost essential.
I fully agree with your view that the problems in India are due to
indiscipline and not lack of intelligence. ( I may be a bit outdated for the youngsters !)
From India, Madras
Your reply is perfectly right. The employee in question is suspended pending enquiry. He is served with a charge sheet. He has an opportunity
to reply to the charge sheet and defend him in the enquiry to be conducted subsequently. He is also entitled for subsistance allowance. In case of a grave misconduct the employer has the right to suspend an employee immediately even without giving the charge sheet. Charge sheet can be framed only after conducting a preliminary investigation to assess the extent of the omission or commission.
If the suspended employee proves his innocence in the domestic enquiry, his suspension would be revoked and he can join back on duty with full salary (arrears) from the date of his suspension.
Discipline is a must. Financial discipline is utmost essential.
I fully agree with your view that the problems in India are due to
indiscipline and not lack of intelligence. ( I may be a bit outdated for the youngsters !)
From India, Madras
yes , suspension is not a punishment.the charged employee is kept under suspension
1.pending investigation, gathering of all documents etc to frame charges against the charged employee by mgt
2. the charged employee should not tamper/influence/ destroy the documents in the office
3 the charged employee need keep himself ready for the enquiry
4 personal enqury with charged employee need to be completed
5 once investigation is over , and the charged employee,s suspension can be revoked
6 the charge shhet/ fullenquiry, and findings , then awarding of suitable punishment as per org rules
murali
From India, Chennai
1.pending investigation, gathering of all documents etc to frame charges against the charged employee by mgt
2. the charged employee should not tamper/influence/ destroy the documents in the office
3 the charged employee need keep himself ready for the enquiry
4 personal enqury with charged employee need to be completed
5 once investigation is over , and the charged employee,s suspension can be revoked
6 the charge shhet/ fullenquiry, and findings , then awarding of suitable punishment as per org rules
murali
From India, Chennai
Hi,
Mr Divekars' views are perfectly right. I only gathered the impression from original post that the suspension was not pending enquiry, but as a punishment without affording him an opportunity of explaining his position. I hope, it was not.
I.N.JHA
Mr Divekars' views are perfectly right. I only gathered the impression from original post that the suspension was not pending enquiry, but as a punishment without affording him an opportunity of explaining his position. I hope, it was not.
I.N.JHA
Dear All,
Thanks for the responses,
Following are the ponit that i would like to share with you:_
1-Suspension without subsitence allowance is justifiable by law or not.
2- Suspension only is 1 misconduct is justifiable with law and principle of natural justice.
3- Suspending an employee without any formal enquiry is justifiable.
4- To chargesheet an employee directly asking for explanation even you are not going to conduct domestic enquiry is justifiable.
5-It is not a part of misaapropriate use of fund, it is just that bills of worth 40 lakhs was not forwarded to concern ministry on time. Discipline includes a lot of things.
Do you think that it is a good human resource practice where your employee thinks that their jobs are insecure.
Whether we should take steps with iron hand where people will work till the time bosses were there.
Whether we should encourage such culture where people are working with a feeling of insecurity and in a tense sitution.
When we say Human Resouces, we are here to take care of our employees and to driven a good culture in the organisation.
I had gone through a book of Mr.Khera "You Can Win", where he has Fear Motivation are only temporary. It work till the time the fear factor or boss was there.
I personally beleive in the culture in an organisation where employees look forward to come on the job.
Please answer my queries, 2 suspension in a week are we going in a right direction.
throwing out an employee or takin their resignation is right or wrong-May be it is a good plicy to reduce your heads in this period of recession.
What you will day to the GM where he scolds everybdy for small things like phone was disconnected due to technical reason in between.
May be i think he does not know what is the menaing of HR. Our first value of the company is integrity, respect ...... Where is the respect for the other, where is that joy at workplace.
Again my question is it not necessary to issues warning letters in minor misconducts like absencebefore issuing chargesheet or suspending them directly is right?
2- In major misconduct, what should be the procedures one shoul follow. issure directly chargesheet without conducting enquiry.
3- Termination of an employee on the basis of audir report is justifiable.
Your responses will be highly appreciated.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
Thanks for the responses,
Following are the ponit that i would like to share with you:_
1-Suspension without subsitence allowance is justifiable by law or not.
2- Suspension only is 1 misconduct is justifiable with law and principle of natural justice.
3- Suspending an employee without any formal enquiry is justifiable.
4- To chargesheet an employee directly asking for explanation even you are not going to conduct domestic enquiry is justifiable.
5-It is not a part of misaapropriate use of fund, it is just that bills of worth 40 lakhs was not forwarded to concern ministry on time. Discipline includes a lot of things.
Do you think that it is a good human resource practice where your employee thinks that their jobs are insecure.
Whether we should take steps with iron hand where people will work till the time bosses were there.
Whether we should encourage such culture where people are working with a feeling of insecurity and in a tense sitution.
When we say Human Resouces, we are here to take care of our employees and to driven a good culture in the organisation.
I had gone through a book of Mr.Khera "You Can Win", where he has Fear Motivation are only temporary. It work till the time the fear factor or boss was there.
I personally beleive in the culture in an organisation where employees look forward to come on the job.
Please answer my queries, 2 suspension in a week are we going in a right direction.
throwing out an employee or takin their resignation is right or wrong-May be it is a good plicy to reduce your heads in this period of recession.
What you will day to the GM where he scolds everybdy for small things like phone was disconnected due to technical reason in between.
May be i think he does not know what is the menaing of HR. Our first value of the company is integrity, respect ...... Where is the respect for the other, where is that joy at workplace.
Again my question is it not necessary to issues warning letters in minor misconducts like absencebefore issuing chargesheet or suspending them directly is right?
2- In major misconduct, what should be the procedures one shoul follow. issure directly chargesheet without conducting enquiry.
3- Termination of an employee on the basis of audir report is justifiable.
Your responses will be highly appreciated.
Regards
Ranjeet
From India, New Delhi
I agree with Mr. Dinesh - anything else I would add would only be a repetive statement of his views already mentioned.
Please understand that "HR" is a link between the Management and the Employee. Nowhere its a theory that the HR must only consider the employee side of view.
to add to this - as an employee, you will not get to hear the "complete story". Only part of the same would be revealed by the HR & Management to the others. Reason is to safeguard the employee's image to a maximum extent. This is something that employees excluding HR people in the senior level fail to understand.
Moreover - end of the day, every relationship at work, boils down to business. Its "how much has been converted to money" that counts. The relationship may exist - but "a professional work place" should be able to differentiate these two objects "Relationship / loyalty" and WORK / delivery / consistency.
From India, Madras
Please understand that "HR" is a link between the Management and the Employee. Nowhere its a theory that the HR must only consider the employee side of view.
to add to this - as an employee, you will not get to hear the "complete story". Only part of the same would be revealed by the HR & Management to the others. Reason is to safeguard the employee's image to a maximum extent. This is something that employees excluding HR people in the senior level fail to understand.
Moreover - end of the day, every relationship at work, boils down to business. Its "how much has been converted to money" that counts. The relationship may exist - but "a professional work place" should be able to differentiate these two objects "Relationship / loyalty" and WORK / delivery / consistency.
From India, Madras
Hi,
Mr. Divekar has rightly replied to the query. One thing to add is that suspension is of two types. Firstly as a punishment. Secondly as a tool to prevent tampering of evidence etc. Sometimes it is difficult to impose the responsibility upon a management to explain its actions and then to act. As a first aid and emergent prevention suspension could have been ordered. A viewing of the standing orders of the company would throw light on this.
regards
From India, Bangalore
Mr. Divekar has rightly replied to the query. One thing to add is that suspension is of two types. Firstly as a punishment. Secondly as a tool to prevent tampering of evidence etc. Sometimes it is difficult to impose the responsibility upon a management to explain its actions and then to act. As a first aid and emergent prevention suspension could have been ordered. A viewing of the standing orders of the company would throw light on this.
regards
From India, Bangalore
Dear Ranjeet,
Your concern is correct. But I guess you need to read what Mr. Dinesh wrote. He has answred all your queries, infact I guess he has answered them so perfect without any room for us to say...he he he....:o
Please go through them and ponder on his suggestion carefully and you will find a solution.
Let not emotion take over the mind so you may be able to take correct perception of the matter.
Regards
ukmitra
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
Your concern is correct. But I guess you need to read what Mr. Dinesh wrote. He has answred all your queries, infact I guess he has answered them so perfect without any room for us to say...he he he....:o
Please go through them and ponder on his suggestion carefully and you will find a solution.
Let not emotion take over the mind so you may be able to take correct perception of the matter.
Regards
ukmitra
From Saudi Arabia, Riyadh
"He is working in a credit department and due to some reasons he is not able to follow up for the bills worth of 40 lakhs with the ministry which shows his negligence in duties"
If you read the line it is clear that "he is not able to follow up" and hence negligence.
I think his immediate boss should be given charge sheet first as he/she failed to let it happen.
Is it a good HR practice the answer is “NO”
Sarfaraz
From India, Bangalore
If you read the line it is clear that "he is not able to follow up" and hence negligence.
I think his immediate boss should be given charge sheet first as he/she failed to let it happen.
Is it a good HR practice the answer is “NO”
Sarfaraz
From India, Bangalore
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