95
Discussions on such topic and comments what ever positive or negetive , in favour or not..can really hurt sentiments....rather it shoud be kept as personalised discssion with hr or any corporate affirs expert..
Thanks and regards
Gourisankar.S
Principal
SVC
From India, Pune
Thanks and regards
Gourisankar.S
Principal
SVC
From India, Pune
Thank your friend for putting your time and effort to reply to this post. And thanks for giving me an opportunity to clear out certain misconceptions about my faith.
First and foremost, with all due respect, your faith may be ‘totally baseless’ to you but to me, my faith has more worth than my own life. Actually, I find your comparison between a medical emergency and a meeting with a CEO as ‘totally baseless’. You are comparing things with a difference of Chalk and Cheese. Meeting with a CEO is generally for business reasons, whereas a medical emergency requires saving the life of a human being. My faith tells me that saving the life of a human being (irrespective of his religion) is as if saving the life of entire humanity. (…And whoever saves one human life - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely… Qura’n 5.32). Hypothetically, and God forbid, if I would have been a doctor and you come to me as a patient with medical emergency, my faith ‘obligates’ me to leave all prayers (be it Friday or otherwise) and attend to you and treat you in the best possible manner.
I would say exactly the same to you. I believe you have a HR background and if you do, then you must have studied perception and perceptual biases. What you are doing here, is termed as ‘projection error’ where you might be having an understanding of your own faith and you think, all other faiths and ideologies should work in the same manner and if they don’t, there exists some problem in them. Sorry, I use to think like you 6 years ago before I accepted Islam. But when I accepted Islam, contrary to popular perception, Islam led me to more tolerance and more understanding. Between, nowhere since the time this post was originally posted, I ever said that I am suffering. Brother, I am not at all suffering, instead I am extremely happy since the last 6 years and as of now I am already employed in a Central university in Delhi.
Now you are affected by a perceptional error called ‘stereotyping’. I have already clarified this in a post before. To know and understand Islam, you can’t take heed from the actions of contemporary Muslims but only the actions, statements and approvals of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Anyway, nowhere in Islam, it is mandatory to eat non-veg. A vegetarian Muslim can be equally good (in sight of Islam) when compared to a Muslim who eats meat. Secondly, Salam Aleikum is NOT an urdu greeting. It’s a Arabic term which harmlessly means ‘Peace be upon you’ and it’s mentioned in Quran (13.24) and it’s the official Islamic greeting. Yet, it’s not obligatory, not even to Muslims. Had I been in place of your friend, I wouldn’t have resorted to saying Salam Aleikum even to my Muslim supervisor, until I sensed the culture of that place.
I believe you are exaggerating the number 4-5 because technically speaking he can only take a break of 4 times a day if he’s offering all his 5 daily prayers in the office itself and that’s only possible when the office timings are between 4.30 AM – midnight. Otherwise, it can be never be more than 2 breaks (and not even a single break, if the office gets over at 5 PM) the other people who were not offering Namaz were wrong; they were obligated to offer namaz. They were bad examples. Yet, if he violated certain rules by taking extra breaks, the administration was justified in sacking him.
From your post, I don’t want to remember anyone’s name because then I would also be stereotyping. I want to remember the majority of Hindus, whom I met during my last 5-6 years, who were not unbigoted, but also use to understand my faith. As a matter of fact, the last 2 years of my education were in a Muslim dominated institute and the classmate whom I use to talk most and still do, was a Hindu. Yesterday only he was there at my place and we had a long conversation over a cup of hot coffee and nice chicken kebabs
Again, you are trying to impose your understanding and your practice of your faith to Islam and its practice. First and foremost, to say these things are prohibited in Hinduism is a debatable assertion. There are virtually hundreds of books in Hinduism (4 Vedas, more than 200 Upnishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Harivamsa, Agama, Manu Smirti and other law givers, Geeta, 18 Mahapuranas, 19 Upapuranas amogst others) and thousands of sages and saints (each coming up with his own understanding to reach God) and millions of Gods and Goddesses. I don’t see say any central authority, not even unity among Hindus to define a standard and universal code of law (defining do’s and don’ts for hindus) for Hindus to follow (irrespective of their caste, creed, color, race, language or nationality). Even the word Hindu and Hinduism is a misnomer. Unlike Islam and Muslim, the word Hindu and Hinduism is nowhere mentioned in any of the scriptures of Hinduism. Even the word ‘Hindu’ has more of geographical connotation than a religious one. Geographically, I have no problem calling myself as a Hindu because I live in India, Hindustan. There’s even a whole debate between the Aryans and Dravidians as to claim the original ancestry of India. In 1995, Chief Justice P. B. Gajendragadkar was quoted in an Indian Supreme Court ruling: When we think of the Hindu religion, unlike other religions in the world, the Hindu religion does not claim any one prophet; it does not worship any one god; it does not subscribe to any one dogma; it does not believe in any one philosophic concept; it does not follow any one set of religious rites or performances; in fact, it does not appear to satisfy the narrow traditional features of any religion or creed. It may broadly be described as a way of life and nothing more. My point of mentioning all this is that culturally you are programmed in such a way because it’s easier for you to mould yourself and adjust to the environment to satisfy your desires.
For Muslims, we believe that every single action of ours gets recorded and we would be duly recompensed for all what we did in this life. Nothing escapes God’s knowledge, no matter how insignificant or fleeting it might seem. God says: “Surely if there be but the weight of the grain of a mustard-seed, even though it is in (the heart of) rock, or (high above) in the heaven or (deep down) in the earth, God will bring it to light; surely God is the Knower of Subtleties, All-Aware” [Sūrah Luqmān: 16]. And God says: “In whatever business you may be, and whatever portion you may be reciting from the Qur'an, and whatever deed you may be doing, We are witness to what you are engaged in. Not the weight of an atom on Earth or in heaven is hidden from your Lord, nor anything lesser or greater but it is recorded in a clear Book.” [Sūrah Yūnus: 61] Hence, as a devout Muslim, I have to make sure all my actions (manifest or concealed) have to be in accordance to the tenets of Islam. Likewise, when we engage in our worldly affairs, like our jobs or our commerce, we will be conscious that there is much more at stake than the supervision of the human authorities appointed over us. We will know that God is watching us and taking account of our deeds, and nothing escapes His notice. We will engage in our work with honesty and integrity. This is why Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “Allah loves it when any of you engages in some work, that he does it well.”
Again, this could be based on your belief that you are the only cause of your sustenance. In Islam, we believe that our sustenance comes from God alone, yet we have to pour in our best efforts to acquire it in a just and righteous manner. One of the names of God in Quran is ‘Ar-Razzaq’ (The Provider). Quran says “And there is no creature on earth but that upon God is its provision [rizq], and He knows its place of dwelling and place of storage. All is in a clear register.” (Qur’an, 11:6). Hence, God says in the Quran: “And if any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God will surely accomplish his purpose. Verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion” (Surah Al-Talaq, verses 3) Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “If only you relied on God a true reliance, He would provide sustenance for you just as He does the birds: They fly out in the morning empty and return in the afternoon with full stomachs.And also He says in the Quran: “And for those who have God consciousness, He (ever) prepares a way out. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine” (Surah Al-Talaq, Verses 2-3) Hence, following the tenets of God is more important for a Muslim because a Muslim has a faith which tells him sustenance comes from God, he only has to acquire it through righteous means.
Thanks for your suggestion, I have already switched my career to academics and the by the grace and mercy of God, I have already got a job in a central university and now I am opting for PhD. I have also let my options for a PSU job because after staying for 4 months (as a HR trainee) at NTPC’s Corp office in New Delhi, I would say the culture of a PSU is still much tolerant of my actions.
Yet, indeed my future plan is to go for entrepreneurship (in education sector) but as of now I would like to collect experience and resources.
(P.S.: My intention is not to offend anyone with this post of mine. I felt I was misunderstood and hence I just wanted to clarify)
From India, Mumbai
First and foremost, with all due respect, your faith may be ‘totally baseless’ to you but to me, my faith has more worth than my own life. Actually, I find your comparison between a medical emergency and a meeting with a CEO as ‘totally baseless’. You are comparing things with a difference of Chalk and Cheese. Meeting with a CEO is generally for business reasons, whereas a medical emergency requires saving the life of a human being. My faith tells me that saving the life of a human being (irrespective of his religion) is as if saving the life of entire humanity. (…And whoever saves one human life - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely… Qura’n 5.32). Hypothetically, and God forbid, if I would have been a doctor and you come to me as a patient with medical emergency, my faith ‘obligates’ me to leave all prayers (be it Friday or otherwise) and attend to you and treat you in the best possible manner.
I would say exactly the same to you. I believe you have a HR background and if you do, then you must have studied perception and perceptual biases. What you are doing here, is termed as ‘projection error’ where you might be having an understanding of your own faith and you think, all other faiths and ideologies should work in the same manner and if they don’t, there exists some problem in them. Sorry, I use to think like you 6 years ago before I accepted Islam. But when I accepted Islam, contrary to popular perception, Islam led me to more tolerance and more understanding. Between, nowhere since the time this post was originally posted, I ever said that I am suffering. Brother, I am not at all suffering, instead I am extremely happy since the last 6 years and as of now I am already employed in a Central university in Delhi.
Now you are affected by a perceptional error called ‘stereotyping’. I have already clarified this in a post before. To know and understand Islam, you can’t take heed from the actions of contemporary Muslims but only the actions, statements and approvals of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Anyway, nowhere in Islam, it is mandatory to eat non-veg. A vegetarian Muslim can be equally good (in sight of Islam) when compared to a Muslim who eats meat. Secondly, Salam Aleikum is NOT an urdu greeting. It’s a Arabic term which harmlessly means ‘Peace be upon you’ and it’s mentioned in Quran (13.24) and it’s the official Islamic greeting. Yet, it’s not obligatory, not even to Muslims. Had I been in place of your friend, I wouldn’t have resorted to saying Salam Aleikum even to my Muslim supervisor, until I sensed the culture of that place.
I believe you are exaggerating the number 4-5 because technically speaking he can only take a break of 4 times a day if he’s offering all his 5 daily prayers in the office itself and that’s only possible when the office timings are between 4.30 AM – midnight. Otherwise, it can be never be more than 2 breaks (and not even a single break, if the office gets over at 5 PM) the other people who were not offering Namaz were wrong; they were obligated to offer namaz. They were bad examples. Yet, if he violated certain rules by taking extra breaks, the administration was justified in sacking him.
From your post, I don’t want to remember anyone’s name because then I would also be stereotyping. I want to remember the majority of Hindus, whom I met during my last 5-6 years, who were not unbigoted, but also use to understand my faith. As a matter of fact, the last 2 years of my education were in a Muslim dominated institute and the classmate whom I use to talk most and still do, was a Hindu. Yesterday only he was there at my place and we had a long conversation over a cup of hot coffee and nice chicken kebabs
Again, you are trying to impose your understanding and your practice of your faith to Islam and its practice. First and foremost, to say these things are prohibited in Hinduism is a debatable assertion. There are virtually hundreds of books in Hinduism (4 Vedas, more than 200 Upnishads, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Harivamsa, Agama, Manu Smirti and other law givers, Geeta, 18 Mahapuranas, 19 Upapuranas amogst others) and thousands of sages and saints (each coming up with his own understanding to reach God) and millions of Gods and Goddesses. I don’t see say any central authority, not even unity among Hindus to define a standard and universal code of law (defining do’s and don’ts for hindus) for Hindus to follow (irrespective of their caste, creed, color, race, language or nationality). Even the word Hindu and Hinduism is a misnomer. Unlike Islam and Muslim, the word Hindu and Hinduism is nowhere mentioned in any of the scriptures of Hinduism. Even the word ‘Hindu’ has more of geographical connotation than a religious one. Geographically, I have no problem calling myself as a Hindu because I live in India, Hindustan. There’s even a whole debate between the Aryans and Dravidians as to claim the original ancestry of India. In 1995, Chief Justice P. B. Gajendragadkar was quoted in an Indian Supreme Court ruling: When we think of the Hindu religion, unlike other religions in the world, the Hindu religion does not claim any one prophet; it does not worship any one god; it does not subscribe to any one dogma; it does not believe in any one philosophic concept; it does not follow any one set of religious rites or performances; in fact, it does not appear to satisfy the narrow traditional features of any religion or creed. It may broadly be described as a way of life and nothing more. My point of mentioning all this is that culturally you are programmed in such a way because it’s easier for you to mould yourself and adjust to the environment to satisfy your desires.
For Muslims, we believe that every single action of ours gets recorded and we would be duly recompensed for all what we did in this life. Nothing escapes God’s knowledge, no matter how insignificant or fleeting it might seem. God says: “Surely if there be but the weight of the grain of a mustard-seed, even though it is in (the heart of) rock, or (high above) in the heaven or (deep down) in the earth, God will bring it to light; surely God is the Knower of Subtleties, All-Aware” [Sūrah Luqmān: 16]. And God says: “In whatever business you may be, and whatever portion you may be reciting from the Qur'an, and whatever deed you may be doing, We are witness to what you are engaged in. Not the weight of an atom on Earth or in heaven is hidden from your Lord, nor anything lesser or greater but it is recorded in a clear Book.” [Sūrah Yūnus: 61] Hence, as a devout Muslim, I have to make sure all my actions (manifest or concealed) have to be in accordance to the tenets of Islam. Likewise, when we engage in our worldly affairs, like our jobs or our commerce, we will be conscious that there is much more at stake than the supervision of the human authorities appointed over us. We will know that God is watching us and taking account of our deeds, and nothing escapes His notice. We will engage in our work with honesty and integrity. This is why Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “Allah loves it when any of you engages in some work, that he does it well.”
Again, this could be based on your belief that you are the only cause of your sustenance. In Islam, we believe that our sustenance comes from God alone, yet we have to pour in our best efforts to acquire it in a just and righteous manner. One of the names of God in Quran is ‘Ar-Razzaq’ (The Provider). Quran says “And there is no creature on earth but that upon God is its provision [rizq], and He knows its place of dwelling and place of storage. All is in a clear register.” (Qur’an, 11:6). Hence, God says in the Quran: “And if any one puts his trust in God, sufficient is (God) for him. For God will surely accomplish his purpose. Verily, for all things has Allah appointed a due proportion” (Surah Al-Talaq, verses 3) Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “If only you relied on God a true reliance, He would provide sustenance for you just as He does the birds: They fly out in the morning empty and return in the afternoon with full stomachs.And also He says in the Quran: “And for those who have God consciousness, He (ever) prepares a way out. And He provides for him from (sources) he never could imagine” (Surah Al-Talaq, Verses 2-3) Hence, following the tenets of God is more important for a Muslim because a Muslim has a faith which tells him sustenance comes from God, he only has to acquire it through righteous means.
Thanks for your suggestion, I have already switched my career to academics and the by the grace and mercy of God, I have already got a job in a central university and now I am opting for PhD. I have also let my options for a PSU job because after staying for 4 months (as a HR trainee) at NTPC’s Corp office in New Delhi, I would say the culture of a PSU is still much tolerant of my actions.
Yet, indeed my future plan is to go for entrepreneurship (in education sector) but as of now I would like to collect experience and resources.
(P.S.: My intention is not to offend anyone with this post of mine. I felt I was misunderstood and hence I just wanted to clarify)
From India, Mumbai
This was my original thought when I created the original post. I was not sad, depressed or anything and neither I had any problem with it. I only wanted to reinforce my decision to switch from corporate to academics and I wanted to gather diverse views on it. What you said is true and it would be unjustified on the part of a person who asks for any additional concessions on the basis of his religious beliefs.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Mr. Alam,
With your name, I believe you are a Muslim. With all due respect, please don’t speak about Islam when you don’t know about it (As per an authentic narration of Prophet, it’s a heinous sin to quote falsehood in his name). I am also a student of Islamic studies and I am speaking on behalf of Quran and authentic narrations of Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him), I am not speaking to please anyone or to please myself.
You may be an expert on Hinduism or other faiths, but at least your knowledge on Islam is extremely limited. Who said work has got no religion? In Islam, working ‘Halal’ (permissible) is very much part of Islam. I have already quoted the verses in the previous post. By your standards, there shouldn’t be any problem for a Muslim to work in a brewery, a casino, in an interest based bank, in a pub, in a meat shop selling pork, or even as a sex worker (in the countries where it’s legal to do so). Isn’t it? Since you may not be aware, there’s an entire Surah in Quran dedicated against those people who deal in fraud and cheating. It’s Surah Al-Mutaffifin, no. 83, even Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “The one who cheats (or deceives) us is not one of us.” Narrated by Muslim (101). Muslim (102) also narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Whoever cheats (or deceives) does not belong to me.” There are many other such verses and authentic narrations of Prophet speaking on the same topic and it’s beyond the scope of this post to put them here. Hence, an employee must be sincere in his work and do it in the manner required, without cheating or deceiving anyone, and without delaying work for people. He should realize that he will stand before God and that God has only given him this job so that he can be sincere towards the Muslims.
Why I shouldn’t raise such points in an open forum? This forum is for people from the field of HR. I wanted to know the tolerance level or acceptance of such practices in Indian context and hence I created this post. I am not aware if I have done something wrong as per the rules of citehr.
Yes, work is worship even in Islam and hence that work has to be done in the manner required by Islam, otherwise it would become disobedience.
It’s good that you know its fardh (obligatory) for a Muslim to offer 5 times daily prayers. Please at least spell Allah correctly, its Allah, not allha and it’s Deen, not dian. And what do you mean by this statement of yours and where did you got it? Can you please quote a verse of Quran or an authentic narration of Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) to back your statement? Does it imply that if my boss asks to me to drink alcohol with a prospective client, should I do it? Or to sell my product claiming false qualities? Or to charge my customer wrongly ? Or if I am a doctor, prescribe unnecessary tests to my patient, just because the diagnosis centre has bribed me ? Or if I am student, try to cheat in the exam so as to get good marks ? Sorry, if this is what you meant from your statement, then to you is your Deen and to me is mine.
I hope the same for you. May God give you guidance and may he makes your understand that a Muslim can never ever deliberately misquote or falsely quote Islam. I am also not speaking on behalf of my ego, I am speaking on the basis of scripture.
From India, Mumbai
With your name, I believe you are a Muslim. With all due respect, please don’t speak about Islam when you don’t know about it (As per an authentic narration of Prophet, it’s a heinous sin to quote falsehood in his name). I am also a student of Islamic studies and I am speaking on behalf of Quran and authentic narrations of Prophet (Peace and Blessings be upon him), I am not speaking to please anyone or to please myself.
You may be an expert on Hinduism or other faiths, but at least your knowledge on Islam is extremely limited. Who said work has got no religion? In Islam, working ‘Halal’ (permissible) is very much part of Islam. I have already quoted the verses in the previous post. By your standards, there shouldn’t be any problem for a Muslim to work in a brewery, a casino, in an interest based bank, in a pub, in a meat shop selling pork, or even as a sex worker (in the countries where it’s legal to do so). Isn’t it? Since you may not be aware, there’s an entire Surah in Quran dedicated against those people who deal in fraud and cheating. It’s Surah Al-Mutaffifin, no. 83, even Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “The one who cheats (or deceives) us is not one of us.” Narrated by Muslim (101). Muslim (102) also narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of God be upon him) said: “Whoever cheats (or deceives) does not belong to me.” There are many other such verses and authentic narrations of Prophet speaking on the same topic and it’s beyond the scope of this post to put them here. Hence, an employee must be sincere in his work and do it in the manner required, without cheating or deceiving anyone, and without delaying work for people. He should realize that he will stand before God and that God has only given him this job so that he can be sincere towards the Muslims.
Why I shouldn’t raise such points in an open forum? This forum is for people from the field of HR. I wanted to know the tolerance level or acceptance of such practices in Indian context and hence I created this post. I am not aware if I have done something wrong as per the rules of citehr.
Yes, work is worship even in Islam and hence that work has to be done in the manner required by Islam, otherwise it would become disobedience.
It’s good that you know its fardh (obligatory) for a Muslim to offer 5 times daily prayers. Please at least spell Allah correctly, its Allah, not allha and it’s Deen, not dian. And what do you mean by this statement of yours and where did you got it? Can you please quote a verse of Quran or an authentic narration of Prophet (peace and blessings of God be upon him) to back your statement? Does it imply that if my boss asks to me to drink alcohol with a prospective client, should I do it? Or to sell my product claiming false qualities? Or to charge my customer wrongly ? Or if I am a doctor, prescribe unnecessary tests to my patient, just because the diagnosis centre has bribed me ? Or if I am student, try to cheat in the exam so as to get good marks ? Sorry, if this is what you meant from your statement, then to you is your Deen and to me is mine.
I hope the same for you. May God give you guidance and may he makes your understand that a Muslim can never ever deliberately misquote or falsely quote Islam. I am also not speaking on behalf of my ego, I am speaking on the basis of scripture.
From India, Mumbai
Please may my request all bloggers to kindly stick to the query raised and not get into any debate on the rights and wrongs of any postings. Thanking you in advance.
From United Kingdom
From United Kingdom
All i have to say that if this is the way you reply to the members who have given you answers, then you should not have posted your post at all, so many members have given their views and by quoting verses from quran you have proved everyones advice as wrong, so what is the ultimate goal of you asking a query and not accepting even a single reply of any member. It would have been better if you would directly have asked your priest, would have saved lot of time of members. We have quoted the relality to you , the reality which is happening and which will happen, to accept it or not is upto you. It is only a probability that out of a percentage you got into a PSU which is allowing you to practice your religion on workplace, if this would have been otherwise, you will not be so confident in replying. Anyways i really dont get the motive behind you posting such questions and then again quoting the replies of members and proving that everyone is wrong and it is their perception. Since you are quoting scriptures it would have been better if you would have posted that only muslims could reply, so that they can understand what is right and what is wrong. Because i am really not understanding your replies, and whatever i quoted everyone thinks the same way, might be not you.
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Could not find the edit option if the thread starters query is finished this thread can be closed i feel,
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
The Thread Starter’s query has been answered. Hence, it is better not to post any more messages. I hope the bloggers appreciate this request.
From United Kingdom
From United Kingdom
This is what I asked in original post.
"I only want to ask that what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above".
I didn't ask that I should change my beliefs to make myself compatible for the corporate culture. And please speak for yourself, I am not at defying every single post and not everyone thinks the same way, please read from the beginning.
From India, Mumbai
"I only want to ask that what would be the tolerance level for such an employee as mentioned above".
I didn't ask that I should change my beliefs to make myself compatible for the corporate culture. And please speak for yourself, I am not at defying every single post and not everyone thinks the same way, please read from the beginning.
From India, Mumbai
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