Hello Khadir & all,
The topic/theme/subject is both interesting & confusing.....like Hussain Zulfikar expressed.
In a way, Deadsoul has a point--though expressed in his/her own normal way :-)
First, let me elaborate my reasons for terming this topic as 'interesting': This subject is something that has gone very deep to many psychologists the world-over since the ages. And each opinion/explanation reg this topic has only taken the human race JUST ONE STEP CLOSER to understanding about human nature--NOT to the very end. If the Last Word has been said by someone, then, I guess, many on the face of this planet would be without work :-)
Secondly, to explain my reason(s) for terming this topic as confusing: The very action/effort of trying to 'label' one person as a 'leader' & another one as a 'follower' is a fallacy--for the simple reason [& this is where deadsoul is dead right] that NONE--REPEAT NONE-- is a 100% Leader or a 100% Follower.
There always exists something of both 'aspects' in every individual--including a beggar in the railway station--except that the proportion varies depending on a few factors: [1] the individual--his/her awareness being primary here [2] the context/situation AND [3] the time frame under consideration.
A small analogy--taken from the routine lives of everyone of us. Let's take a small family--parents & their kid(s). For the kids, the father is a leader--but does that REALLY make him a leader for everyone [meaning outsiders]? Obviously NO--since sometimes even the wife doesn't take her orders from him, though she may have valid reasons for doing so :-)
The father LEADS the way for the kids, and yet FOLLOWS someone else in other situations/conditions--most likely some outsider. And unless he follows someone AND LEARNS--in the truest sense--ALONG THE WAY, he would, in all probability, falter in his own step(s) when he has to Lead his kids. Deadsoul is dead-right on this point.
I recollect a Quote here: A true Leader is one who never hesitates to Follow.
The same would hold good for the typical 'netas' of our politics here--a State-level Leader [whether 'so-called' or a True one is a different issue--not going into that aspect at all] will obviously be a Follower @ the National-level [again whether he/she does the 'following' from the truest sense of the action or out-of-convenience is a different issue].
Another perspective of this debate is about the consequences of one's actions--be it a Leader or a Follower or just a plain Watcher [the cat-on-the-wall type]. If one hasn't learnt to follow--in the true spirit i.e.--he/she wouldn't be able to lead for sure. Since every position of leadership [irrespective of what type] also brings with it a 'Responsibility' of the consequences of his/her actions, a misplaced/wrong step of a leader would be far more catastrophic than that of a follower/watcher--and in all probability--would be borne MORE by his/her followers than himself/herself. History is replete with such instances where the wrong decisions by the Leader have wrought havoc by countries/corporations the world-over. In the limited scenario of a family or a village or town, the same would still hold good.
In this background, a TRUE Leader would be one who doesn't hesitate to OWN-UP HIS/HER MISTAKES.
This again brings me to another Quote [I think by Churchill or Abraham Lincoln]: Some are born Leaders; Some become Leaders & leadership is thrust on some. It's the III Category that one may need to be wary of, since they become leaders WITHOUT EARNING that position--at least that's my view.
I hope I have added to the debate rather than confusing things further.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
1637The topic/theme/subject is both interesting & confusing.....like Hussain Zulfikar expressed.
In a way, Deadsoul has a point--though expressed in his/her own normal way :-)
First, let me elaborate my reasons for terming this topic as 'interesting': This subject is something that has gone very deep to many psychologists the world-over since the ages. And each opinion/explanation reg this topic has only taken the human race JUST ONE STEP CLOSER to understanding about human nature--NOT to the very end. If the Last Word has been said by someone, then, I guess, many on the face of this planet would be without work :-)
Secondly, to explain my reason(s) for terming this topic as confusing: The very action/effort of trying to 'label' one person as a 'leader' & another one as a 'follower' is a fallacy--for the simple reason [& this is where deadsoul is dead right] that NONE--REPEAT NONE-- is a 100% Leader or a 100% Follower.
There always exists something of both 'aspects' in every individual--including a beggar in the railway station--except that the proportion varies depending on a few factors: [1] the individual--his/her awareness being primary here [2] the context/situation AND [3] the time frame under consideration.
A small analogy--taken from the routine lives of everyone of us. Let's take a small family--parents & their kid(s). For the kids, the father is a leader--but does that REALLY make him a leader for everyone [meaning outsiders]? Obviously NO--since sometimes even the wife doesn't take her orders from him, though she may have valid reasons for doing so :-)
The father LEADS the way for the kids, and yet FOLLOWS someone else in other situations/conditions--most likely some outsider. And unless he follows someone AND LEARNS--in the truest sense--ALONG THE WAY, he would, in all probability, falter in his own step(s) when he has to Lead his kids. Deadsoul is dead-right on this point.
I recollect a Quote here: A true Leader is one who never hesitates to Follow.
The same would hold good for the typical 'netas' of our politics here--a State-level Leader [whether 'so-called' or a True one is a different issue--not going into that aspect at all] will obviously be a Follower @ the National-level [again whether he/she does the 'following' from the truest sense of the action or out-of-convenience is a different issue].
Another perspective of this debate is about the consequences of one's actions--be it a Leader or a Follower or just a plain Watcher [the cat-on-the-wall type]. If one hasn't learnt to follow--in the true spirit i.e.--he/she wouldn't be able to lead for sure. Since every position of leadership [irrespective of what type] also brings with it a 'Responsibility' of the consequences of his/her actions, a misplaced/wrong step of a leader would be far more catastrophic than that of a follower/watcher--and in all probability--would be borne MORE by his/her followers than himself/herself. History is replete with such instances where the wrong decisions by the Leader have wrought havoc by countries/corporations the world-over. In the limited scenario of a family or a village or town, the same would still hold good.
In this background, a TRUE Leader would be one who doesn't hesitate to OWN-UP HIS/HER MISTAKES.
This again brings me to another Quote [I think by Churchill or Abraham Lincoln]: Some are born Leaders; Some become Leaders & leadership is thrust on some. It's the III Category that one may need to be wary of, since they become leaders WITHOUT EARNING that position--at least that's my view.
I hope I have added to the debate rather than confusing things further.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Mr. AVSJAI,
I am sure your reply is quite unique/interesting and it really made me feel happy. Glad to have such professionals in this community.
We are aware that "ALL FIVE FINGERS ARE NOT SAME" hence PERCEPTIONS & INTERPRETATION LEVELS differ significantly. We are living in a world of "CUT THROAT COMPETITION", "SELFISH" "ABSENCE OF ETHICS" "NO HUMAN VALUES" etc., but still SURVIVABILITY as per individuals expectations sounds to be a challenging and MAMMOTH TASK. In the pursuit of EXCELLENCE, many had ignored various things and at times, it has cost their lives as well. I agree to Mr. Hussain, as he rightly pointed out it as "RACE", but the GOOD PART IS ALWAYS MISSING.
I always promoted LEADERSHIP SKILLS in those individuals who are unique from the rest, they were capable of leading themselves and their team members. Believe me or not, it is for GOOD CAUSE, only. This fact took my breath away, as i noted professionals possessing more or less 3 DECADES of experiences, lacking sheer LEADERSHIP SKILLS. Just because of AUTHORITY/POWERS they are able to get things done either by hook or crook. If one is lacking LEADERSHIP SKILLS, i am sure he/she is lacking MANAGERIAL SKILLS as well.
LEADERS & FOLLOWERS do exist. Few became leaders to earn MONEY & POWER, where as few to earn NAME & FAME. Rest remain NEUTRAL as they decided not to take RISK.
My major concern is related to individuals(employees) CAREER associated GROWTH FACTORS. As a observer, I had been closely monitoring how SUPERIORS succeeded in nurturing their co-workers/team members. I deeply regret to say that, FAILURE RATIO IS 90%. Most of them claimed themselves as LEADERS but at the same time i haven't seen any FOLLOWERS. What i believe is that, "one must possess TRUE LEADERSHIP SKILLS to LEAD A TEAM" else he/she should continue to play the role of a TEAM MEMBER. We human's are blessed with TALENT but neither it is UNLEASHED nor it is PROMOTED. Hence the organisation's productivity is DECLINED. Hope you understood me.
I wish if you can share your knowledge in regard my query posted in my earlier post.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
I am sure your reply is quite unique/interesting and it really made me feel happy. Glad to have such professionals in this community.
We are aware that "ALL FIVE FINGERS ARE NOT SAME" hence PERCEPTIONS & INTERPRETATION LEVELS differ significantly. We are living in a world of "CUT THROAT COMPETITION", "SELFISH" "ABSENCE OF ETHICS" "NO HUMAN VALUES" etc., but still SURVIVABILITY as per individuals expectations sounds to be a challenging and MAMMOTH TASK. In the pursuit of EXCELLENCE, many had ignored various things and at times, it has cost their lives as well. I agree to Mr. Hussain, as he rightly pointed out it as "RACE", but the GOOD PART IS ALWAYS MISSING.
I always promoted LEADERSHIP SKILLS in those individuals who are unique from the rest, they were capable of leading themselves and their team members. Believe me or not, it is for GOOD CAUSE, only. This fact took my breath away, as i noted professionals possessing more or less 3 DECADES of experiences, lacking sheer LEADERSHIP SKILLS. Just because of AUTHORITY/POWERS they are able to get things done either by hook or crook. If one is lacking LEADERSHIP SKILLS, i am sure he/she is lacking MANAGERIAL SKILLS as well.
LEADERS & FOLLOWERS do exist. Few became leaders to earn MONEY & POWER, where as few to earn NAME & FAME. Rest remain NEUTRAL as they decided not to take RISK.
My major concern is related to individuals(employees) CAREER associated GROWTH FACTORS. As a observer, I had been closely monitoring how SUPERIORS succeeded in nurturing their co-workers/team members. I deeply regret to say that, FAILURE RATIO IS 90%. Most of them claimed themselves as LEADERS but at the same time i haven't seen any FOLLOWERS. What i believe is that, "one must possess TRUE LEADERSHIP SKILLS to LEAD A TEAM" else he/she should continue to play the role of a TEAM MEMBER. We human's are blessed with TALENT but neither it is UNLEASHED nor it is PROMOTED. Hence the organisation's productivity is DECLINED. Hope you understood me.
I wish if you can share your knowledge in regard my query posted in my earlier post.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Dear Mr.SHAIK ABDUL KHADIR
Thanks for your reply and I have understood your queries and give my comments here.
For your easy reference, I will give my comments below your main queries made in few of your posts.
1) YOUR QUERY(Dt.31-10-2011)
“My major concern is related to individuals (employees) CAREER associated GROWTH FACTORS. As a observer, I had been closely monitoring how SUPERIORS succeeded in nurturing their co-workers/team members. I deeply regret to say that, FAILURE RATIO IS 90%. Most of them claimed themselves as LEADERS but at the same time i haven't seen any FOLLOWERS. What i believe is that, "one must possess TRUE LEADERSHIP SKILLS to LEAD A TEAM" else he/she should continue to play the role of a TEAM MEMBER. We human's are blessed with TALENT but neither it is UNLEASHED nor it is PROMOTED. Hence the organization’s productivity is DECLINED. Hope you understood me.”MY COMMENTS:
At workers level, the leader or manger can not expect results to happen by cent percent. First he should define his level of expectations from each member of his team and work out his plan as per the individual capabilities. He should understand the fact that ‘one can not stand under a mango tree expecting oranges.’ Most of the failures are of this type and the case is worst if the leader come from the same group.
Here I have witnessed few experiences from the mistakes done by the managements.
If you promote a skilled person to lead the team, it is more of a suicidal effort. By doing this the team lose a good skilled person and in a process create a bad leader.
With an experience of over two decades in corporate sectors and another two decades of being an entrepreneur, I wish to share few of my thoughts here. There were no buzzwords like HRM, Accountability. Team building and so on in our prime times. But a mere common-sense approach has worked in dealing with team to produce results. But to day we are glued to these buzz words and technology and forget the human values. There is no development either in communication or in the personality of the person among managers.
2) YOUR QUERY (Dt.30-10-2011)
“How LEADERS(can be a supervisor, manager) can inculcate this HABIT in those employees - "TO TAKE COMPLETE OWNERSHIP & ACCOUNTABILITY & DO SOMETHING BEYOND THAN EXPECTATIONS OF THEIR SUPERIOR", without taking support of MANAGEMENT?” No wonder, i can motivate, educate, counsel, mentor, coach employees to develop various workplace skills. Even after carrying out such activities, i haven't seen any change in second category employees."
MY COMMENTS:
Any system that is brought in, should be first educated and instructed; then it should be enforced. Only if this sequence is followed the system will stay for long and people will adhere to it.
Here I wish to point out the culture of the organization has an impact in valuing the employees.
The CEO should be able to inculcate the human values into his team apart from himself being the person of human values.
I am happy to share a message of the emergence of ‘Human Resource Accounting’ which seems to work well if properly implemented. Hope the new system will add a new value to HR managers who will be treated in par with other line mangers. The HR mangers will work along with finance and other line managers to evaluate the Human Resource Accounting and convert them in terms of financial value, which will reflect in the company’s annual balance sheet. Infosys has already done this program recently and made its reflection in their balance sheet. This system may bring an accountability of every person in the organization.
Use the below link to see more details:
What is Human Resource Accounting?
What is happening presently is ridiculous as the Management has a casual attitude towards its employees and in turn the employees too behave differently. At times the group dynamics plays a role in not taking accountability. Instead of defining ‘What is right?’ the concept of “Who is right?’ sets in the minds of the group. This is really disturbing the managers in their efforts.
Added to this, the present HR managers, who by his or her title suppose to understand the human behavior than other line managers, do not use their own wisdom in understanding the employee’s turn around or the attrition rate. Using the recommendations of the line managers and the so called tool of ‘Performance Appraisal Report’, the present HR mangers involve in sending the employees out. They merely see the poor outputs, without verifying the input data that is causing the poor output. HR mangers are powerless in these situations and bow down to pressures causing an exit to a right employee. These slips can have a cascading effect on the other members of the group and even spoil their morale.
As long as these human fundamentals are ignored, the situation will remain the same or even gets worse in future.
By this I am not saying that all the present mangers are wrong and I have found some brilliant young mangers who really excel in their profession. But they are few in numbers and are considered as ‘unsung heroes’.
I am sharing herewith a PDF file on ‘Managing an effective team’ from which you can gather more inputs for your analysis.
I conclude my discussion with a saying:
Change the changeable.
Accept the unchangeable.
Remove yourself from the unacceptable.
In any situation, let the first choice be to change the changeable. It is a responsible beginning.
However, when all efforts to cause the change has failed, then accept the unacceptable.
Finally, remove yourself from the unacceptable.
You alone will be able to make that decision.
Thank you for the opportunity given to express my views.
Warm regards.
A.V.Srinivasan(AVS)
************************************************** *****
From India, Madras
Thanks for your reply and I have understood your queries and give my comments here.
For your easy reference, I will give my comments below your main queries made in few of your posts.
1) YOUR QUERY(Dt.31-10-2011)
“My major concern is related to individuals (employees) CAREER associated GROWTH FACTORS. As a observer, I had been closely monitoring how SUPERIORS succeeded in nurturing their co-workers/team members. I deeply regret to say that, FAILURE RATIO IS 90%. Most of them claimed themselves as LEADERS but at the same time i haven't seen any FOLLOWERS. What i believe is that, "one must possess TRUE LEADERSHIP SKILLS to LEAD A TEAM" else he/she should continue to play the role of a TEAM MEMBER. We human's are blessed with TALENT but neither it is UNLEASHED nor it is PROMOTED. Hence the organization’s productivity is DECLINED. Hope you understood me.”MY COMMENTS:
At workers level, the leader or manger can not expect results to happen by cent percent. First he should define his level of expectations from each member of his team and work out his plan as per the individual capabilities. He should understand the fact that ‘one can not stand under a mango tree expecting oranges.’ Most of the failures are of this type and the case is worst if the leader come from the same group.
Here I have witnessed few experiences from the mistakes done by the managements.
If you promote a skilled person to lead the team, it is more of a suicidal effort. By doing this the team lose a good skilled person and in a process create a bad leader.
With an experience of over two decades in corporate sectors and another two decades of being an entrepreneur, I wish to share few of my thoughts here. There were no buzzwords like HRM, Accountability. Team building and so on in our prime times. But a mere common-sense approach has worked in dealing with team to produce results. But to day we are glued to these buzz words and technology and forget the human values. There is no development either in communication or in the personality of the person among managers.
2) YOUR QUERY (Dt.30-10-2011)
“How LEADERS(can be a supervisor, manager) can inculcate this HABIT in those employees - "TO TAKE COMPLETE OWNERSHIP & ACCOUNTABILITY & DO SOMETHING BEYOND THAN EXPECTATIONS OF THEIR SUPERIOR", without taking support of MANAGEMENT?” No wonder, i can motivate, educate, counsel, mentor, coach employees to develop various workplace skills. Even after carrying out such activities, i haven't seen any change in second category employees."
MY COMMENTS:
Any system that is brought in, should be first educated and instructed; then it should be enforced. Only if this sequence is followed the system will stay for long and people will adhere to it.
Here I wish to point out the culture of the organization has an impact in valuing the employees.
The CEO should be able to inculcate the human values into his team apart from himself being the person of human values.
I am happy to share a message of the emergence of ‘Human Resource Accounting’ which seems to work well if properly implemented. Hope the new system will add a new value to HR managers who will be treated in par with other line mangers. The HR mangers will work along with finance and other line managers to evaluate the Human Resource Accounting and convert them in terms of financial value, which will reflect in the company’s annual balance sheet. Infosys has already done this program recently and made its reflection in their balance sheet. This system may bring an accountability of every person in the organization.
Use the below link to see more details:
What is Human Resource Accounting?
What is happening presently is ridiculous as the Management has a casual attitude towards its employees and in turn the employees too behave differently. At times the group dynamics plays a role in not taking accountability. Instead of defining ‘What is right?’ the concept of “Who is right?’ sets in the minds of the group. This is really disturbing the managers in their efforts.
Added to this, the present HR managers, who by his or her title suppose to understand the human behavior than other line managers, do not use their own wisdom in understanding the employee’s turn around or the attrition rate. Using the recommendations of the line managers and the so called tool of ‘Performance Appraisal Report’, the present HR mangers involve in sending the employees out. They merely see the poor outputs, without verifying the input data that is causing the poor output. HR mangers are powerless in these situations and bow down to pressures causing an exit to a right employee. These slips can have a cascading effect on the other members of the group and even spoil their morale.
As long as these human fundamentals are ignored, the situation will remain the same or even gets worse in future.
By this I am not saying that all the present mangers are wrong and I have found some brilliant young mangers who really excel in their profession. But they are few in numbers and are considered as ‘unsung heroes’.
I am sharing herewith a PDF file on ‘Managing an effective team’ from which you can gather more inputs for your analysis.
I conclude my discussion with a saying:
Change the changeable.
Accept the unchangeable.
Remove yourself from the unacceptable.
In any situation, let the first choice be to change the changeable. It is a responsible beginning.
However, when all efforts to cause the change has failed, then accept the unacceptable.
Finally, remove yourself from the unacceptable.
You alone will be able to make that decision.
Thank you for the opportunity given to express my views.
Warm regards.
A.V.Srinivasan(AVS)
************************************************** *****
From India, Madras
Dear Mr. AVS
Thank you for your reply.
What i found is that, a group of TEAM LEADERS(had undergone various training programmes) are not taking initiative. Neither they are interested to develop neither their own skills nor their team members. Whats, the great point in educating them on "HOW TO MANAGE A TEAM". Such group/individuals are found in almost every organisation including FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES and they are held responsible for not meeting BUSINESS OBJECTIVES, CLIENTS REQUIREMENTS thus slowing PRODUCTIVITY.
FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES had succeeded in taking STRINGENT ACTION against such LETHARGIC PROFESSIONALS, hence they are progressing aggressively.
TIME WILL TEACH THEM MORE.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Thank you for your reply.
What i found is that, a group of TEAM LEADERS(had undergone various training programmes) are not taking initiative. Neither they are interested to develop neither their own skills nor their team members. Whats, the great point in educating them on "HOW TO MANAGE A TEAM". Such group/individuals are found in almost every organisation including FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES and they are held responsible for not meeting BUSINESS OBJECTIVES, CLIENTS REQUIREMENTS thus slowing PRODUCTIVITY.
FORTUNE 500 COMPANIES had succeeded in taking STRINGENT ACTION against such LETHARGIC PROFESSIONALS, hence they are progressing aggressively.
TIME WILL TEACH THEM MORE.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
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