"" I am sure you all are senior enough to understand the self respect and anyone trying to hurt that will defenitly not be taken so lightly.""
Most of posters are senior enough to understand the real meaning of self respect.
That is the reason sane and well thought out advice of giving strong reply to the accounts manager and copy to other addresses who were in loop of email on the subject.
That should be enough to clear the mater.
But seeing the trend of replies, I will not add anything further on this topic.
From India, Pune
3131Most of posters are senior enough to understand the real meaning of self respect.
That is the reason sane and well thought out advice of giving strong reply to the accounts manager and copy to other addresses who were in loop of email on the subject.
That should be enough to clear the mater.
But seeing the trend of replies, I will not add anything further on this topic.
From India, Pune
Dear friends
It is revealing to see how infectious negative emotions are !!!
If allowed to stoke these flames, they will go on increasing in enormity and devastation.
In a nutshell;
A person posts seeking a solution to his dilemma.
Is he seeking only THOSE OPINIONS AND ADVICES which he has already made up his mind ???
Or, is he willing to at least, CONSIDER opinions that may be CONTRADICTORY to his own ???
If he only believes in what he is doing is CORRECT. then I think this is no forum, meant to give a pat on the shoulder, and UP-VOTE ONLY HIS OWN DECISION !!!
If he is looking for Only LIKES, then there are other Social Media forum, where anything one posts, one is REWARDED ONLY WITH LIKES !!!
Members here, and especially several senior members, give their TIME and EFFORTS voluntarily, coz they have the experience and passion to CONTRIBUTE.
One may LIKE or DISLIKE, agree or disagree, with another's opinion; but PERSONAL ATTACKS are a STRICT NO-NO.
They also VIOLATE, the Community Norms and Terms of Use.
One may sort out personal differences through Personal Messages. There is a PROVISION for it too, just like the site gives an option to remain "anonymous".
Bonhomie and personal courtesy is a hallmark of Professionals.
P.S. : I shall be CONSTRAINED to Close this thread, in case the discussion DEGENERATES to continued personal attacks instead of discussion on the Issue at hand.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
It is revealing to see how infectious negative emotions are !!!
If allowed to stoke these flames, they will go on increasing in enormity and devastation.
In a nutshell;
A person posts seeking a solution to his dilemma.
Is he seeking only THOSE OPINIONS AND ADVICES which he has already made up his mind ???
Or, is he willing to at least, CONSIDER opinions that may be CONTRADICTORY to his own ???
If he only believes in what he is doing is CORRECT. then I think this is no forum, meant to give a pat on the shoulder, and UP-VOTE ONLY HIS OWN DECISION !!!
If he is looking for Only LIKES, then there are other Social Media forum, where anything one posts, one is REWARDED ONLY WITH LIKES !!!
Members here, and especially several senior members, give their TIME and EFFORTS voluntarily, coz they have the experience and passion to CONTRIBUTE.
One may LIKE or DISLIKE, agree or disagree, with another's opinion; but PERSONAL ATTACKS are a STRICT NO-NO.
They also VIOLATE, the Community Norms and Terms of Use.
One may sort out personal differences through Personal Messages. There is a PROVISION for it too, just like the site gives an option to remain "anonymous".
Bonhomie and personal courtesy is a hallmark of Professionals.
P.S. : I shall be CONSTRAINED to Close this thread, in case the discussion DEGENERATES to continued personal attacks instead of discussion on the Issue at hand.
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Sandeep,
As Mr Nathrao has suggested if at all you decide to go to court then be prepared for atleast 8-10yrs long legal battle and a long and hefty bill from the lawyer ! Tell me honestly..is it really worth it ?Secondly it is no guarantee that you will get justice because remember solicitors/lawyers can stab you in the back by colluding with the opposite party.I'm telling this from my personal experience.
Next,do you think this Accounts Manager is an exception ? Whichever organisation you work for you shall find some such people.Where will you escape to ? Once my unit manager insulted me in front of clients to such an extent that the client intervened and told him that I should be considered a valuable asset by the organisation.The client being a top ranking bureaucrat silenced the manager of my CPSU.So forget , forgive and concentrate on your goals.Wish you all the best in your career !
From India, New Delhi
As Mr Nathrao has suggested if at all you decide to go to court then be prepared for atleast 8-10yrs long legal battle and a long and hefty bill from the lawyer ! Tell me honestly..is it really worth it ?Secondly it is no guarantee that you will get justice because remember solicitors/lawyers can stab you in the back by colluding with the opposite party.I'm telling this from my personal experience.
Next,do you think this Accounts Manager is an exception ? Whichever organisation you work for you shall find some such people.Where will you escape to ? Once my unit manager insulted me in front of clients to such an extent that the client intervened and told him that I should be considered a valuable asset by the organisation.The client being a top ranking bureaucrat silenced the manager of my CPSU.So forget , forgive and concentrate on your goals.Wish you all the best in your career !
From India, New Delhi
All right all. Thanks for all your valuable advices. I have forwarded the case to hr team and senior heads and the result is that a warning is issued to account manager and he has dropped me an apology mail. This satisfies my ego now. But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew. There will be many to say No but atleast one who will show you the correct path. I am thankful to my first responce of the post where the process is clarified rather than people chosing to become personal and using Capital lettered words to show there emotions.
Thanks all.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
Thanks all.
From United Kingdom, Cambridge
Hello Sandeep Tiwari,
There's one line that's oft spoken in Human Relations/Psychology: "What the other guy says or does is NOT in your hands; but what's in YOUR hands is how you respond/react to it".
How often have you not been into a situation where the house may be full of noise, but you focus on your studies as if you are alone [as a student]? The same applies to everyone @ various phases of life.......albeit with a change of situation & purpose.
All I can see in the situation you described is a case of ego hang-up & low self-esteem of your Account manager and NOTHING to do with your caliber.
And I think there's a bit of comm gap too between your Cluster manager & account manager--he SURELY should have been informed 'in-writing' about your travel, etc. Since that aspect in the whole discussion seems to have got missed-out, this guy took offence. You were just the cog in the wheel, getting ground/effected.
While I MAY be wrong, are you sure there's nothing between both of them......is there any possibility of the Cluster manager using this to get even with the Account Manager for something else?
Like Raj Kumar succinctly put it, when your account Manager is already loosing sleep, why do you want to lose your's too?
Now that your HR is in the loop, just get on with your work & answer whatever & whenever you are asked.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
There's one line that's oft spoken in Human Relations/Psychology: "What the other guy says or does is NOT in your hands; but what's in YOUR hands is how you respond/react to it".
How often have you not been into a situation where the house may be full of noise, but you focus on your studies as if you are alone [as a student]? The same applies to everyone @ various phases of life.......albeit with a change of situation & purpose.
All I can see in the situation you described is a case of ego hang-up & low self-esteem of your Account manager and NOTHING to do with your caliber.
And I think there's a bit of comm gap too between your Cluster manager & account manager--he SURELY should have been informed 'in-writing' about your travel, etc. Since that aspect in the whole discussion seems to have got missed-out, this guy took offence. You were just the cog in the wheel, getting ground/effected.
While I MAY be wrong, are you sure there's nothing between both of them......is there any possibility of the Cluster manager using this to get even with the Account Manager for something else?
Like Raj Kumar succinctly put it, when your account Manager is already loosing sleep, why do you want to lose your's too?
Now that your HR is in the loop, just get on with your work & answer whatever & whenever you are asked.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Sandeep
Thanks for letting every concerned member know about the developments, and that the issue is being resolved by the Company to your satisfaction.
I am happy to know that so much resources in terms of time, money (lawyer's fee etc,) as well as lots of mental agony were saved.
Thank you also to inform us that ,
"This satisfies my ego now.." !!!
* The 2 extra exclamation marks are to add emphasis. Hope it doesn't offend you, like a few Capital letters that you mention).
Let me take this opportunity to sum-up and conclude the discussion.
As rightly observed by many, it was basically a matter of your "ego" and not "self-respect" , as you have also admitted it.
One member rightly pointed on the meaning of "self-respect."
Self-respect is not something that one loses if someone abuses or hurl insults. Its not something that fragile or so easily vulnerable that few words in an e-mail can destroy it.
Self-respect is lost by the person himself, when he falls in his own eyes !!
To illustrate, if I do not honour my words, do something that I should not, act in a manner unworthy of myself, then I loose my self-respect.
Only I can make myself loose my self-respect.
You can insult anyone as much you want, but it will only show your class, upbringing, parental influence, culture etc. Insulting others is a statement about tyou, the do-er of insults; not me.
In your case, the Account Manager, only exposed himself by being "nasty". He would have otherwise never confessed to being nasty, but his actions spoke about himself.
Its good that you now you acknowledged the first response as best. In fact, others also gave you more or less, similar suggestion, but in different words and presented differently.
I agree whole-heartedly with you when you say,
{Quote} "But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew." [UnQuote} (sic)
But one must fight in the right way,
One should remember that, "if a dog bites you, do not bite him with your teeth in return. Rather use a stick to beat him.'
Note: The above is without any prejudice to the other side of the incident, which is not known, nor the impugned email was made available. Prima-facie, it is very unusual in this age of Internet, phone, Instant Messaging etc that an Accounts Manager is unaware of the where-abouts of one of his team-member, or that he has proceeded to the client's site on the request of the client. So he may feel aggrieved for being made a laughing stock of the company for not knowing on which assignment or which location his team is busy. He should have definitely been "taken in the loop". unless it is on purpose and knowingly or, by neglect or lapse.
From India, Delhi
Thanks for letting every concerned member know about the developments, and that the issue is being resolved by the Company to your satisfaction.
I am happy to know that so much resources in terms of time, money (lawyer's fee etc,) as well as lots of mental agony were saved.
Thank you also to inform us that ,
"This satisfies my ego now.." !!!
* The 2 extra exclamation marks are to add emphasis. Hope it doesn't offend you, like a few Capital letters that you mention).
Let me take this opportunity to sum-up and conclude the discussion.
As rightly observed by many, it was basically a matter of your "ego" and not "self-respect" , as you have also admitted it.
One member rightly pointed on the meaning of "self-respect."
Self-respect is not something that one loses if someone abuses or hurl insults. Its not something that fragile or so easily vulnerable that few words in an e-mail can destroy it.
Self-respect is lost by the person himself, when he falls in his own eyes !!
To illustrate, if I do not honour my words, do something that I should not, act in a manner unworthy of myself, then I loose my self-respect.
Only I can make myself loose my self-respect.
You can insult anyone as much you want, but it will only show your class, upbringing, parental influence, culture etc. Insulting others is a statement about tyou, the do-er of insults; not me.
In your case, the Account Manager, only exposed himself by being "nasty". He would have otherwise never confessed to being nasty, but his actions spoke about himself.
Its good that you now you acknowledged the first response as best. In fact, others also gave you more or less, similar suggestion, but in different words and presented differently.
I agree whole-heartedly with you when you say,
{Quote} "But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew." [UnQuote} (sic)
But one must fight in the right way,
One should remember that, "if a dog bites you, do not bite him with your teeth in return. Rather use a stick to beat him.'
Note: The above is without any prejudice to the other side of the incident, which is not known, nor the impugned email was made available. Prima-facie, it is very unusual in this age of Internet, phone, Instant Messaging etc that an Accounts Manager is unaware of the where-abouts of one of his team-member, or that he has proceeded to the client's site on the request of the client. So he may feel aggrieved for being made a laughing stock of the company for not knowing on which assignment or which location his team is busy. He should have definitely been "taken in the loop". unless it is on purpose and knowingly or, by neglect or lapse.
From India, Delhi
Hello Sandeep Tiwari,
Really nothing more to add after Raj Kumar's exhaustive response EXCEPT this.
Your line "But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew" belies an approach of 'aggressiveness'. Even though this MIGHT win you a few battles, in the long-run, you will get hit.
Suggest modify your approach to be 'assertive' rather than 'aggressive'. In short, 'assertiveness' focuses on the issue while 'aggressiveness' focuses on the individual.
Hope you get the point.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Really nothing more to add after Raj Kumar's exhaustive response EXCEPT this.
Your line "But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew" belies an approach of 'aggressiveness'. Even though this MIGHT win you a few battles, in the long-run, you will get hit.
Suggest modify your approach to be 'assertive' rather than 'aggressive'. In short, 'assertiveness' focuses on the issue while 'aggressiveness' focuses on the individual.
Hope you get the point.
All the Best.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Excellent Tajsateesh ! Your concluding remark is absolutely correct and it is like icing on the cake of this discussion. "....Fight for your right and you will get the dew(?)....." is not the case always.I guess an angry young man may think so but experience teaches us that it is not so.Even Mahatma Gandhi fought whole life for the right of independence and got it but he could not stop our right to have a unified India.
From India, New Delhi
From India, New Delhi
Dear Sandeep,
Thanks for your response to my post. However, about your post, "I will not force you to put youself in my place but just request you that our thoughts are not matching and I can't take you suggestions positivly as they are making zero impact on me, I would like to inform you that at this very late stage, none can force me to put myself in your place, as that stage has passed long ago by about 15 years after my retirement from active service. I may also make it clear for your information that during my service period I was also the champion of self respect, NOT EGOI, but I used to take appropriate precautions not to give any chance to any one to play with my self respect. I used to be fully equipped to counter that at my own with my own capabilities, not taking shelter of the top brass, third party, or the law courts.
So, my advice was totally impartial, not taking side with any one of you adversaries of your company.
Opinions, suggestions or advice to any one are always prone to acceptance and rejection by the querist. Since some member asks, the others try to suggest or advise in good faith, totally unconcerned with the issue whether his thoughts would match with those of the querist or not. Some people like that and some dislike that. You were also free to accept or ignore advice the members. So, that has not hurt my feeling, if your thoughts do not match with mine.
However, I was happy to note that being of the status of a manager, you preferred to take your own decision to go by your own resolve. Decisions may be right or wrong that must be experimented by the managers and leaders, if advice/ suggestions of others are not liked. But, it seems, at the last moment you have cowed down yourself by dropping your original proposal to sue the erring manager and the company by saying, "I have forwarded the case to hr team and senior heads and the result is that a warning is issued to account manager and he has dropped me an apology mail. This satisfies my ego now. But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew."
May my thoughts match with your thoughts or not, but as per my views, you did not fight for your right but to satisfy your ego. I further observe that your proposal, "filing lawsuit against company" revealed your wavering mind, when you sought advice from members of this site. Thereafter on several pieces of advice of adverse nature, you took a firm decision to go by your own proposal. But, with apology of the Account Manager, you dropped your decision to take the matter to a law court by getting solace of mind by saying "this satisfies my ego now." The question arises, when you had forwarded the case to HR team, was your query justified in a premature stage, when you were reqyured to wait for the action of the HR team and finally to abide by its decision that too when you were not inclined to act upon any suggestion made my the members? To be frank, the need for asking for the suggestions/ advice of the members on your premature query is not understood.
All that gives vent to nothing else, except the state of a wavering mind, which is not called for from a manager working in a company functioning in an advanced country, like UK.
That also makes very clear that there was nothing about self respect and prestige, rather a case of ego and revenge from some adversary in the organisation. I must say, THAT IS NOT A HEALTHY TREND IN ANY ORGANISATION. Mutual regard of contemporaries is always rewarding in any organisation, not confrontation of individual egos and ethos that can burst any time to take undesirably worse shape.
May this free advice not suit you for the present, but at one stage of your career you can realise the real value of this advice.
Anyway, best of luck!
From India, Delhi
Thanks for your response to my post. However, about your post, "I will not force you to put youself in my place but just request you that our thoughts are not matching and I can't take you suggestions positivly as they are making zero impact on me, I would like to inform you that at this very late stage, none can force me to put myself in your place, as that stage has passed long ago by about 15 years after my retirement from active service. I may also make it clear for your information that during my service period I was also the champion of self respect, NOT EGOI, but I used to take appropriate precautions not to give any chance to any one to play with my self respect. I used to be fully equipped to counter that at my own with my own capabilities, not taking shelter of the top brass, third party, or the law courts.
So, my advice was totally impartial, not taking side with any one of you adversaries of your company.
Opinions, suggestions or advice to any one are always prone to acceptance and rejection by the querist. Since some member asks, the others try to suggest or advise in good faith, totally unconcerned with the issue whether his thoughts would match with those of the querist or not. Some people like that and some dislike that. You were also free to accept or ignore advice the members. So, that has not hurt my feeling, if your thoughts do not match with mine.
However, I was happy to note that being of the status of a manager, you preferred to take your own decision to go by your own resolve. Decisions may be right or wrong that must be experimented by the managers and leaders, if advice/ suggestions of others are not liked. But, it seems, at the last moment you have cowed down yourself by dropping your original proposal to sue the erring manager and the company by saying, "I have forwarded the case to hr team and senior heads and the result is that a warning is issued to account manager and he has dropped me an apology mail. This satisfies my ego now. But the lesson i got is fight for your rights and u'll get the dew."
May my thoughts match with your thoughts or not, but as per my views, you did not fight for your right but to satisfy your ego. I further observe that your proposal, "filing lawsuit against company" revealed your wavering mind, when you sought advice from members of this site. Thereafter on several pieces of advice of adverse nature, you took a firm decision to go by your own proposal. But, with apology of the Account Manager, you dropped your decision to take the matter to a law court by getting solace of mind by saying "this satisfies my ego now." The question arises, when you had forwarded the case to HR team, was your query justified in a premature stage, when you were reqyured to wait for the action of the HR team and finally to abide by its decision that too when you were not inclined to act upon any suggestion made my the members? To be frank, the need for asking for the suggestions/ advice of the members on your premature query is not understood.
All that gives vent to nothing else, except the state of a wavering mind, which is not called for from a manager working in a company functioning in an advanced country, like UK.
That also makes very clear that there was nothing about self respect and prestige, rather a case of ego and revenge from some adversary in the organisation. I must say, THAT IS NOT A HEALTHY TREND IN ANY ORGANISATION. Mutual regard of contemporaries is always rewarding in any organisation, not confrontation of individual egos and ethos that can burst any time to take undesirably worse shape.
May this free advice not suit you for the present, but at one stage of your career you can realise the real value of this advice.
Anyway, best of luck!
From India, Delhi
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