hi noel, we as freshers or in just the starting of our career start expecting more and I think this is also one of the reason why we get demotivated easilyy... what do u say?? dips
From India, Delhi
10From India, Delhi
Hi Dips,
I just got the notification on your reply and I have to say its very delayed, hhahah since you posted it on the 13 and 14 and I only just received it today, 19.
You are right. When I first started working 8 years ago, I sacrified alot to gain the experience and thought nothing of rewards or promotion. 8 years after that, I now believe that people must be rewarded according to their contributions and performance. Do not get me wrong, I am also the advocate that time and experience are the best teachers. What I do not agree with is that companies/management is reluctant to reward individuals who already proved themselves and contributed to the productivity of the department, with comments like you are to new to the organisation, you are too young, you are inexperienced ( I have personally experience it twice). If they are all of that then do not give them the responsibility. Management is conflicting themselves when they do this, and there will come to a point where these individuals will begin to compare and when this happens, they will begin to look outside. There is no point in asking people to stay when they already have tendered their resignation.
There are many factors involve. One I do like to mention is the ego. This little joker dont play a fool with it. It can break or make a person. Imagine if you are giving the responsibility and authority, your image is of a higher status, and people will responds to you accordingly, but for really performers, they will feel like its a facade. I personally dont care for the show, if I am good reward me, if I am not, punish me. Playing words games is de-motivating and putting down a person.
Myself being through all this, I know how devastating it is, but I stuck to the company for quite sometime, even when the people who came in with me has all resigned. I just want to share my experience so that HR prac, know what effects it can do to morale and commitment and ultimately, the retention of good people as well as building the trust between staff and management.
Love to hear your comments on this. :wink:
Love and peace.
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
I just got the notification on your reply and I have to say its very delayed, hhahah since you posted it on the 13 and 14 and I only just received it today, 19.
You are right. When I first started working 8 years ago, I sacrified alot to gain the experience and thought nothing of rewards or promotion. 8 years after that, I now believe that people must be rewarded according to their contributions and performance. Do not get me wrong, I am also the advocate that time and experience are the best teachers. What I do not agree with is that companies/management is reluctant to reward individuals who already proved themselves and contributed to the productivity of the department, with comments like you are to new to the organisation, you are too young, you are inexperienced ( I have personally experience it twice). If they are all of that then do not give them the responsibility. Management is conflicting themselves when they do this, and there will come to a point where these individuals will begin to compare and when this happens, they will begin to look outside. There is no point in asking people to stay when they already have tendered their resignation.
There are many factors involve. One I do like to mention is the ego. This little joker dont play a fool with it. It can break or make a person. Imagine if you are giving the responsibility and authority, your image is of a higher status, and people will responds to you accordingly, but for really performers, they will feel like its a facade. I personally dont care for the show, if I am good reward me, if I am not, punish me. Playing words games is de-motivating and putting down a person.
Myself being through all this, I know how devastating it is, but I stuck to the company for quite sometime, even when the people who came in with me has all resigned. I just want to share my experience so that HR prac, know what effects it can do to morale and commitment and ultimately, the retention of good people as well as building the trust between staff and management.
Love to hear your comments on this. :wink:
Love and peace.
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Hi noel,
finally u read it..
well, there are two points of view on this case-
1. as an employee, and being full of energy and enthusiasm, eager to prove ourself, we tend to expect instant success , no doubt that is realistic also, we are ready to learn new things, ready to accept challenges, but then also very impatient...we expect quick recognition, quick rewards by utmost hard as well as smart work....
2. as an employer, we think quick rewards and recognitions may make the employee to over-expect and even attrition may increase... may be the manpower not be fully utilised and even ROI may decrease, and the employee may stop working satisfactorily due to his overexpectations....
Now i wrote all dis because i am in the phases.....
now both of these points create the reasons for demotivation and dissatisfaction....
what do u say???
dips
From India, Delhi
finally u read it..
well, there are two points of view on this case-
1. as an employee, and being full of energy and enthusiasm, eager to prove ourself, we tend to expect instant success , no doubt that is realistic also, we are ready to learn new things, ready to accept challenges, but then also very impatient...we expect quick recognition, quick rewards by utmost hard as well as smart work....
2. as an employer, we think quick rewards and recognitions may make the employee to over-expect and even attrition may increase... may be the manpower not be fully utilised and even ROI may decrease, and the employee may stop working satisfactorily due to his overexpectations....
Now i wrote all dis because i am in the phases.....
now both of these points create the reasons for demotivation and dissatisfaction....
what do u say???
dips
From India, Delhi
Hi dips,
Good comments. I agree with the points that you have shared.
But a balance must be reached. Communication of expectation must be made and understood.
My concern is when managements gives executives the responsibility of higher positions, like section head, assistant manager, or even managerial positions, but in taking up these responsibility, these individuals are not given the benefits or salary that normally comes with the position. A person must have a certain capabilities that is why he is entrusted with that responsibility, but if not why given those tasks in the first place?
In a unionise environment, we would not be able to do such a thing without having the National Unions coming down on us hard. To give a person a higher responsibility that he is currently will automatically qualify with for either an Acting Allowance or a promotion or some form of compensation. So why the differences between Employee and Executive? Just because we are not unionise, management can make use of Executives?
We are trying to motivate and the phares now is Productivity. The ultimate aim of any motivation boils down to higher productivity for the company, which equals Higher Profits. Motivation to push people to give their 101% efforts to the company. Dont you think we are conflicting ourselves as management, when people actually start to give their efforts, and we give comments, like he is too young, she is not ready. Age and Academic qualification should not matter, if he or she can do the job. And by showing that their efforts are recognised and reward, it will push a message that the company is walking the talk. Afterall, we work only because we earn a salary.
Thanks for listening. :D
:wink: love and peace
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Good comments. I agree with the points that you have shared.
But a balance must be reached. Communication of expectation must be made and understood.
My concern is when managements gives executives the responsibility of higher positions, like section head, assistant manager, or even managerial positions, but in taking up these responsibility, these individuals are not given the benefits or salary that normally comes with the position. A person must have a certain capabilities that is why he is entrusted with that responsibility, but if not why given those tasks in the first place?
In a unionise environment, we would not be able to do such a thing without having the National Unions coming down on us hard. To give a person a higher responsibility that he is currently will automatically qualify with for either an Acting Allowance or a promotion or some form of compensation. So why the differences between Employee and Executive? Just because we are not unionise, management can make use of Executives?
We are trying to motivate and the phares now is Productivity. The ultimate aim of any motivation boils down to higher productivity for the company, which equals Higher Profits. Motivation to push people to give their 101% efforts to the company. Dont you think we are conflicting ourselves as management, when people actually start to give their efforts, and we give comments, like he is too young, she is not ready. Age and Academic qualification should not matter, if he or she can do the job. And by showing that their efforts are recognised and reward, it will push a message that the company is walking the talk. Afterall, we work only because we earn a salary.
Thanks for listening. :D
:wink: love and peace
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
hi noel,
thanks for sharing ur thoughts,
seen that difference in age and experience causes difference in the individual's expectations also...
Infact I also can't escape the truth what you tried to say..
everybody expects considerable compensation for his work, for his performance and even higher rewards if he is performing above average, he wants the comparison...
when we sit on the seat of employee, we want to take and when we sit on the seat of management we don't want to give on behalf of it...
Obviously not all employees are same and not their performances are same so it is alwaz epected from the management to compare and reward, and that too both in terms of money and profile...
but then few organizations don't have a transparent culture, they avoid giving both at a time accordingly or at an earlier stage regardless of the performance....this is the point which strikes the employee and creates an immediate dissatisfaction and this continued dissatisfaction causes demotivation and then gradual drop in performance and employee starts searching for some other opportunity which could provide him an immediate satisfaction,
another side of this situation , just think, even the companies consider this and they just strike the hot iron by giving them better emoluments and profile and then the employee is hunted.....
So, if we as employee get that satisfaction right there inour company itself why would we think of leaving that and if we as management provide this immediate motivation to our employee , if not 100% then atleast upto 60%, we would only gain from that....
But then poor management, complains for high attritions....
what say???
dips
From India, Delhi
thanks for sharing ur thoughts,
seen that difference in age and experience causes difference in the individual's expectations also...
Infact I also can't escape the truth what you tried to say..
everybody expects considerable compensation for his work, for his performance and even higher rewards if he is performing above average, he wants the comparison...
when we sit on the seat of employee, we want to take and when we sit on the seat of management we don't want to give on behalf of it...
Obviously not all employees are same and not their performances are same so it is alwaz epected from the management to compare and reward, and that too both in terms of money and profile...
but then few organizations don't have a transparent culture, they avoid giving both at a time accordingly or at an earlier stage regardless of the performance....this is the point which strikes the employee and creates an immediate dissatisfaction and this continued dissatisfaction causes demotivation and then gradual drop in performance and employee starts searching for some other opportunity which could provide him an immediate satisfaction,
another side of this situation , just think, even the companies consider this and they just strike the hot iron by giving them better emoluments and profile and then the employee is hunted.....
So, if we as employee get that satisfaction right there inour company itself why would we think of leaving that and if we as management provide this immediate motivation to our employee , if not 100% then atleast upto 60%, we would only gain from that....
But then poor management, complains for high attritions....
what say???
dips
From India, Delhi
Dear Dips,
Hi how are things? How you had a good weekend.
I remember when I was much younger (fresh graduate), HR Managers had this aura around them that put them higher than the rest. They were to the ones that you could talk to, and by talking to them, one can feel that they are decisive and that they hold your trust in them. One would feel confident that our future and career will be well taken care of.
However, back to the present, the above image now seem like a "hollywood" movie. But what I realise is the man behind that title. HR policy, procedures, practice is directed by one man, the Head Honcho of HR in the company. How it is implemented and interpreted is the result of that one person. He is like the Head in our body, directing our organs and thoughts throughout our bodies. We have to admit, the person who sits on the seat of HR, is a powerful person. And like any position with power, is it is not manage properly, it will like handing over a nuclear bomb to a child.
We are approaching a new era, and things are changing. Beliefs, expectations, wants, desires are all changing. Companies who do not improve in their retention policies will face a draught in their Knowledge and Skill pool. And in that, if we do not recognised contribution from the onset (and reward them), how are we to convince them that the company is worth working for? that their future is protected or at least has a higher possibility of advancement. Workers these days are smart, they do not see managements promises, but they look at how they apply themselves, they talk about their decisions, and they comtemplate on "What if it also Happens to me?"
People will always leave, should we also encourage them to leave, by not being competitive in CompBen? Motivation like I noted earlier, a person must be satisfied first, then only can other strategies work as motivation. If workers do not feel that they are at least earning a market average, anything else the management try to do, the workers will feel that it is owed to them.
In any survey, we will note that Salary is never the main item in motivation. Anybody wondered why? To me it is because it is not a motivation issue at all. You cannot motivate a person with salary. It is beyond that. Salary is service and contract that binds worker and company. We are small businessman ourselves. We sell our service and the salary is our profits. So if the profits is not enough, wouldnt you say drop the business? But if the profits are good, would you work harder to maintain the contract? plus if there are perks and good "Employee Relations" practices in the company would you still want to look else where?
There is a chinese saying, "The older must give in to the youngest". There is no catch 22 situation here. Management must take the first step and then the organisation can spear ahead.
Looking forward to you comment. :wink:
Love and Peace
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Hi how are things? How you had a good weekend.
I remember when I was much younger (fresh graduate), HR Managers had this aura around them that put them higher than the rest. They were to the ones that you could talk to, and by talking to them, one can feel that they are decisive and that they hold your trust in them. One would feel confident that our future and career will be well taken care of.
However, back to the present, the above image now seem like a "hollywood" movie. But what I realise is the man behind that title. HR policy, procedures, practice is directed by one man, the Head Honcho of HR in the company. How it is implemented and interpreted is the result of that one person. He is like the Head in our body, directing our organs and thoughts throughout our bodies. We have to admit, the person who sits on the seat of HR, is a powerful person. And like any position with power, is it is not manage properly, it will like handing over a nuclear bomb to a child.
We are approaching a new era, and things are changing. Beliefs, expectations, wants, desires are all changing. Companies who do not improve in their retention policies will face a draught in their Knowledge and Skill pool. And in that, if we do not recognised contribution from the onset (and reward them), how are we to convince them that the company is worth working for? that their future is protected or at least has a higher possibility of advancement. Workers these days are smart, they do not see managements promises, but they look at how they apply themselves, they talk about their decisions, and they comtemplate on "What if it also Happens to me?"
People will always leave, should we also encourage them to leave, by not being competitive in CompBen? Motivation like I noted earlier, a person must be satisfied first, then only can other strategies work as motivation. If workers do not feel that they are at least earning a market average, anything else the management try to do, the workers will feel that it is owed to them.
In any survey, we will note that Salary is never the main item in motivation. Anybody wondered why? To me it is because it is not a motivation issue at all. You cannot motivate a person with salary. It is beyond that. Salary is service and contract that binds worker and company. We are small businessman ourselves. We sell our service and the salary is our profits. So if the profits is not enough, wouldnt you say drop the business? But if the profits are good, would you work harder to maintain the contract? plus if there are perks and good "Employee Relations" practices in the company would you still want to look else where?
There is a chinese saying, "The older must give in to the youngest". There is no catch 22 situation here. Management must take the first step and then the organisation can spear ahead.
Looking forward to you comment. :wink:
Love and Peace
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Hi noel,
exactly,
it is there, that the sword is in just one hand, the head, in most of the organization, others ( junior and middle mgmt ) are mere puppets of this person, if not completely then in most of the situations.
very true, especially the line " a person must be satisfied first, then only can other sttrategies work as motivation" but again I believe no two companies are having the same comp & ben structure. The competition is always there, eyes on the strength of competitors are there so isn't that it creates an environment of restlessness among the employee and moreover the market average earning is not consistent always so other motivation factors somehow compensate ..
Please , correct me if I am wrong with some example..
Do you realize when we are working in a comapany we are very well aware that if after spending 6 months to 1 year in the same company if we apply to our competitor company, we may get higher post or a higher package even, but then still, there's a thought on the back of mind that if our current company is recognising our efforts, environment is good and feel good factors are therethen lets work for it only....
See noel, now literally we are facing two contradictory views and both are important, both are considerable and we often think of both of these.....
waiting to see your opinions...
dips
From India, Delhi
exactly,
it is there, that the sword is in just one hand, the head, in most of the organization, others ( junior and middle mgmt ) are mere puppets of this person, if not completely then in most of the situations.
very true, especially the line " a person must be satisfied first, then only can other sttrategies work as motivation" but again I believe no two companies are having the same comp & ben structure. The competition is always there, eyes on the strength of competitors are there so isn't that it creates an environment of restlessness among the employee and moreover the market average earning is not consistent always so other motivation factors somehow compensate ..
Please , correct me if I am wrong with some example..
Do you realize when we are working in a comapany we are very well aware that if after spending 6 months to 1 year in the same company if we apply to our competitor company, we may get higher post or a higher package even, but then still, there's a thought on the back of mind that if our current company is recognising our efforts, environment is good and feel good factors are therethen lets work for it only....
See noel, now literally we are facing two contradictory views and both are important, both are considerable and we often think of both of these.....
waiting to see your opinions...
dips
From India, Delhi
Hello Dips,
I agree with you, each company has different compensation plans, it is one of the main HR strategies in any company. But lets just use back your own scenerio. After spending 6 months to 1 year why do you want to change the company in the first place? See, you have to start searching outside first, before you even need to reach the decision to change jobs. There must first be a source motivation that drives you to look outside for another job. But if the going is good, good salary, good environment, good working relationship with colleagues, would you still want to look outside for another job? We all know 6 months to 1 year is nothing, it might as well be a probationary period. 2 years onwards, ahh now you'll begin to see the organisation for what it is. By the time you blink an eye, its 3-4 years, and by this time you may be comfortable with your surroundings and your work. In fact, your work and life will already have a balance. Your life routine will have built around the requirements of your job. You know when you can take leave, you know when the peak periods of work are, you know the pitfalls of your work and the type of people you are working for. Everything is comfortable and your lifes routine is set. Even if you are offered a higher salary, you will still question the risk of breaking the routine, unless of course the package offer 2, 3 times larger than what you are able to make in your current capacity. But then again, you will question whether it is worth the risk? Certainty against Uncertainty? The trouble of starting all over again, when you are a senior staff in your current company? Exchange knowledge of your bosses whims and fancy for uncertainty? It will have to be a very very big difference in the offer package to influence you to join your competitor wouldn't it?
Now back again to my example, take all the above, just add one more factor, the company does not recognise and reward your efforts. Now honestly, would you still take the time to consider all the question that I posted above? I doubt so, I wouldnt. And this is the difference. As long as the person questions the risk, the company still have the chance to retain the person. In fact, the person may even consult his or her manager, if the working relationship is that good and mutual trust exist. But if not? the only time the manager know about it is the time he/she reads the resignation letter, left at the desk, at the end of the day.
In my second job, the pay was good, work was stressful and hard, relationship with my colleagues and bosses were great, and the only reason I change my job was because I was adamant to return to the field of HR but the job career path was heading towards logistic. In fact, I discussed and talked with my manager on this, and even look for advice on what kind of HR job I should look for. It was very difficult leaving but I left on grounds where the company could not help me in, as at that time there were no HR department. It was just a small sales office although it was a MNC. If there was, I believe I will still be working for them today, hahaha provided they dont fire me first. Until now, I make it a point to keep in touch with this manager. As for the other manager I told you about, I wouldnt waste a millisecond thinking about him.
What I am trying to share is that 2 type of resignation, one that within our control but we lose it, and the other beyond our control. Resignation due to dissatisfaction, frustration, anger are the wasteful type. Especially if it involves performers. It is an indicator that the company has problem that is unattended to. It is a waste because such resignation is well within our control but we just dont care and blame it on the first thing that came along. If it is beyond our control, like career path, death of a family, marriage, lets shake their hands, wish them the best and stay in contact.
what your opinion?
love and peace dips.
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
I agree with you, each company has different compensation plans, it is one of the main HR strategies in any company. But lets just use back your own scenerio. After spending 6 months to 1 year why do you want to change the company in the first place? See, you have to start searching outside first, before you even need to reach the decision to change jobs. There must first be a source motivation that drives you to look outside for another job. But if the going is good, good salary, good environment, good working relationship with colleagues, would you still want to look outside for another job? We all know 6 months to 1 year is nothing, it might as well be a probationary period. 2 years onwards, ahh now you'll begin to see the organisation for what it is. By the time you blink an eye, its 3-4 years, and by this time you may be comfortable with your surroundings and your work. In fact, your work and life will already have a balance. Your life routine will have built around the requirements of your job. You know when you can take leave, you know when the peak periods of work are, you know the pitfalls of your work and the type of people you are working for. Everything is comfortable and your lifes routine is set. Even if you are offered a higher salary, you will still question the risk of breaking the routine, unless of course the package offer 2, 3 times larger than what you are able to make in your current capacity. But then again, you will question whether it is worth the risk? Certainty against Uncertainty? The trouble of starting all over again, when you are a senior staff in your current company? Exchange knowledge of your bosses whims and fancy for uncertainty? It will have to be a very very big difference in the offer package to influence you to join your competitor wouldn't it?
Now back again to my example, take all the above, just add one more factor, the company does not recognise and reward your efforts. Now honestly, would you still take the time to consider all the question that I posted above? I doubt so, I wouldnt. And this is the difference. As long as the person questions the risk, the company still have the chance to retain the person. In fact, the person may even consult his or her manager, if the working relationship is that good and mutual trust exist. But if not? the only time the manager know about it is the time he/she reads the resignation letter, left at the desk, at the end of the day.
In my second job, the pay was good, work was stressful and hard, relationship with my colleagues and bosses were great, and the only reason I change my job was because I was adamant to return to the field of HR but the job career path was heading towards logistic. In fact, I discussed and talked with my manager on this, and even look for advice on what kind of HR job I should look for. It was very difficult leaving but I left on grounds where the company could not help me in, as at that time there were no HR department. It was just a small sales office although it was a MNC. If there was, I believe I will still be working for them today, hahaha provided they dont fire me first. Until now, I make it a point to keep in touch with this manager. As for the other manager I told you about, I wouldnt waste a millisecond thinking about him.
What I am trying to share is that 2 type of resignation, one that within our control but we lose it, and the other beyond our control. Resignation due to dissatisfaction, frustration, anger are the wasteful type. Especially if it involves performers. It is an indicator that the company has problem that is unattended to. It is a waste because such resignation is well within our control but we just dont care and blame it on the first thing that came along. If it is beyond our control, like career path, death of a family, marriage, lets shake their hands, wish them the best and stay in contact.
what your opinion?
love and peace dips.
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
Hi noel,,
I am really enjoying this discussion,
that's what I was saying, that apart from a good salary, many other factors are necessary to keep the things going..
Motivation is in itself a broad and vast pool of wants and desires...and yes endless too..we can never be satisfied , never be, and we know this also but then we also know that we have to compromise in some or the other factors... Isn't it... If I am getting 15, 000/- now, i will look for the cmpny that could pay me 18000/- , and when i'll get this much i'll wonder if I cud get 20,000/- but then what makes us stay are again THOSE OTHER MOTIVATIONAL FACTORS CALLED AS POLYNOMIAL MOTIVATION.
hAHAHAHAHA i loved this post and infact discussions with you...you gave nice points to talk upon,,really noel, enjoyed a lot....
But hold on!!! :wink: :wink: am not gonna end this thread by saying all this..
we'll continue... :lol: :lol:
and thanks neha, come and join us..
and forum members watching this thread , plz I am looking forward for this kinda posts...
Regards,
dips
From India, Delhi
I am really enjoying this discussion,
that's what I was saying, that apart from a good salary, many other factors are necessary to keep the things going..
Motivation is in itself a broad and vast pool of wants and desires...and yes endless too..we can never be satisfied , never be, and we know this also but then we also know that we have to compromise in some or the other factors... Isn't it... If I am getting 15, 000/- now, i will look for the cmpny that could pay me 18000/- , and when i'll get this much i'll wonder if I cud get 20,000/- but then what makes us stay are again THOSE OTHER MOTIVATIONAL FACTORS CALLED AS POLYNOMIAL MOTIVATION.
hAHAHAHAHA i loved this post and infact discussions with you...you gave nice points to talk upon,,really noel, enjoyed a lot....
But hold on!!! :wink: :wink: am not gonna end this thread by saying all this..
we'll continue... :lol: :lol:
and thanks neha, come and join us..
and forum members watching this thread , plz I am looking forward for this kinda posts...
Regards,
dips
From India, Delhi
Hi dips,
:D Really appreciate your sharing. I too find this discussion very stimulating and you have also made very good comments that has benefited me too....
Looking forward to continuing this discussion. Of course, for the other citehr members who are reading this thread, please do give your opinion and comments. I think this is an important discussion as we all face this problem in our own organisation.
In fact it will be really good, if others can also share their experiences on motivation.
Happy Deepavali to all celebrating.
love and peace all
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
:D Really appreciate your sharing. I too find this discussion very stimulating and you have also made very good comments that has benefited me too....
Looking forward to continuing this discussion. Of course, for the other citehr members who are reading this thread, please do give your opinion and comments. I think this is an important discussion as we all face this problem in our own organisation.
In fact it will be really good, if others can also share their experiences on motivation.
Happy Deepavali to all celebrating.
love and peace all
From Malaysia, Johor Bahru
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