Ah a debate that I love the most................
Now let me give you all a sound firing err I mean my views ....
Almost every member justified the corruption going in HR, even BOSS justified it, awwww so bad of senior HR persons to say like this, I have so much respect for BOSS, never mind, ultimately it implies that all the members who justified corruption have done corruption in some other way, or will surely do in future when opportunity comes,,
But they never know that they are a part of eco system,
[IMG]http://msmcgartland.pbworks.com/f/1295976674/TERR%20ECO.gif[/IMG]
so instead of opposing corruption they are encouraging corruption, so the next time they get caught at some signal by policeman they wont hesistate in giving 100 rs to policeman as bribe, because they have illegally earned 500rs, but people like us will feel because its hard earned money..
Anna Hazare, Baba Ramdev campagins are utter nonsense just political gimmick to make people silent for some time its of no use at all, India is going more worse day by day and people say india is shining .. .
The only way to earn money today is by corruption..
and people who do corruption , he is waiting for you..
[IMG]http://www.helltycoon.com/images/screenie-001.jpg[/IMG]
Now good HR associates feel the pain that they are being cheated, I tell when someone cheats you why worry, dont you know the proverb LAATON KE BHUT BAATON SE NAHI MAANTE....
so do accordingly and do the JUDGEMENT ,, and one more thing in todays world only humanity you can find is in dogs and in rural areas, urban , metro people are all hard stones, so when we come to work, survive in this so calld carparate world we need to make ourselves stone and go with the flow,, then only we are able to survive, else with high cost of living its too hard,, ;( so inspite of the fact you are honest you are losing on so many contracts, so if you want to make money become corrupt, take some evidence against HR blackmail them, and every month ask them to give 50% of their pay else their records will be made public, sounds interesting do something interesting something mad in life, then life is delicious,,,
look this videoooooo
<link no longer exists - removed>
From India, Madras
113Now let me give you all a sound firing err I mean my views ....
Almost every member justified the corruption going in HR, even BOSS justified it, awwww so bad of senior HR persons to say like this, I have so much respect for BOSS, never mind, ultimately it implies that all the members who justified corruption have done corruption in some other way, or will surely do in future when opportunity comes,,
But they never know that they are a part of eco system,
[IMG]http://msmcgartland.pbworks.com/f/1295976674/TERR%20ECO.gif[/IMG]
so instead of opposing corruption they are encouraging corruption, so the next time they get caught at some signal by policeman they wont hesistate in giving 100 rs to policeman as bribe, because they have illegally earned 500rs, but people like us will feel because its hard earned money..
Anna Hazare, Baba Ramdev campagins are utter nonsense just political gimmick to make people silent for some time its of no use at all, India is going more worse day by day and people say india is shining .. .
The only way to earn money today is by corruption..
and people who do corruption , he is waiting for you..
[IMG]http://www.helltycoon.com/images/screenie-001.jpg[/IMG]
Now good HR associates feel the pain that they are being cheated, I tell when someone cheats you why worry, dont you know the proverb LAATON KE BHUT BAATON SE NAHI MAANTE....
so do accordingly and do the JUDGEMENT ,, and one more thing in todays world only humanity you can find is in dogs and in rural areas, urban , metro people are all hard stones, so when we come to work, survive in this so calld carparate world we need to make ourselves stone and go with the flow,, then only we are able to survive, else with high cost of living its too hard,, ;( so inspite of the fact you are honest you are losing on so many contracts, so if you want to make money become corrupt, take some evidence against HR blackmail them, and every month ask them to give 50% of their pay else their records will be made public, sounds interesting do something interesting something mad in life, then life is delicious,,,
look this videoooooo
<link no longer exists - removed>
From India, Madras
I don't think anyone here SUPPORTS corruption. The Topic of discussion was about "What exactly one comprehends by the word "corruption"?". Is it Only the Bribe that HR Guys take? or Bribe that Politicians & bureaucrats take? Or is it Bribe which is taken in any form???....Is the person giving bribe equally responsible for the Person taking the bribe??.....There was only an objective view of the same from a Common Man's Angle and that includes everyone of us. Also note that there are many good HR Guys who might have helped people with jobs without expecting anything in cash or kind.
Now coming to the topic in question....I would say we need to exchange names of Corrupt HR Guys and their Practices through forums like this....then maybe if possible someone from us would then let the top management in such companies know what is happening in their Company with proof.....Remember that HR is never a Judge, we are only advocates who present the point of view to either party both sides....and don't worry too much about rotten mangoes in the basket....they were existing in the past, would exist in present as well as future..but that should not deter us from installing the right values and morals for society to exist peacefully....Yes I too am frustrated just like you or anyone else here about such issues which would be evident from my posts itself...but then also realize that one cannot change the world overnight...understanding our own limitations, we need to work in our own ways in the little small things daily as our contribution to this menance because we Indians have become a laughing stock today to the people of the world as India is a safe haven for corruption.........Hope you can add your valuable view points on the above thoughts..................rgrds
From India, Mumbai
Now coming to the topic in question....I would say we need to exchange names of Corrupt HR Guys and their Practices through forums like this....then maybe if possible someone from us would then let the top management in such companies know what is happening in their Company with proof.....Remember that HR is never a Judge, we are only advocates who present the point of view to either party both sides....and don't worry too much about rotten mangoes in the basket....they were existing in the past, would exist in present as well as future..but that should not deter us from installing the right values and morals for society to exist peacefully....Yes I too am frustrated just like you or anyone else here about such issues which would be evident from my posts itself...but then also realize that one cannot change the world overnight...understanding our own limitations, we need to work in our own ways in the little small things daily as our contribution to this menance because we Indians have become a laughing stock today to the people of the world as India is a safe haven for corruption.........Hope you can add your valuable view points on the above thoughts..................rgrds
From India, Mumbai
Hello Everyone,
Going by the general comments made by many of the members, looks like Good HR is in the dock MORE for the way [tone, tenor, etc] in which he/she has raised this topic--NOT that he/she raised it at all.
Let's look @ it VERY OBJECTIVELY--is this the FIRST TIME that this topic was raised in CiteHR? DEFINITELY NOT. Then while the earlier Postings got just 2-3 responses [max--'single-digit' responses], why is it that THIS Posting got so many responses--already into the Second Page within ONE DAY?
I guess, sometimes it does need a 'jhatka' to ensure the rest of the crowd EITHER wakes up from slumber OR takes notice. Good HR's tone & tenor seems to have served that purpose. To take a case in point, whoever expected Anna Hazare to get the level & scale of response in the first few hours of sitting for his satyagraha? Definitely NOT HIM--which he mentioned later. Good HR's Posting seems to have acted like that Satyagraha here on CiteHR :-)
But, frankly, I think Good HR should have changed gears to get into the suggestive mold immediately thereafter--to get to the specifics/brasstacks on 'HOW TO HANDLE' the issue rather than taking the stand he/she did....including the 'judgemental' role.
Nikhil R made a comment, in the form of a query: But do you think this will happen?
I don't think it will, IF WE JUST keep asking 'But do you think this will happen?' or even worse: "This will not happen", because it's been there since 1000s of years--going by S. Bhaskar's examples.
For those who follow history, Untouchability existed in this country since almost the same timeframe that S. Bhaskar mentioned. What's the scenario now? Not that it's FULLY-100%-eradicated.....but 'almost yes'. Some things take time to change....in this case nearly 2 centuries, to reach this stage. But IT WILL. And this was thanks to William Benetick [not too sure of the spelling, but that's beside the point], the then Governor General of India--early/mid 1800s. Now I only hope some smart-elec doesn't wake up to say that let the British or some other countrymen rule India again for this corruption scourge to be removed !! :-)
I would differ from Good HR's comments that others are trying to 'justify' their views. I think it's more of an unwillingness to DO & ACT rather than justifying--since it's normal human nature to be afraid/resist change & more importantly unwillingness to move-out of the 'Comfort Zone'. The reason why I say this is 28677c5420521383353edc6e6's comments: In a country where Moral Science and Civics studies are OPTIONAL..........
I am not so sure that just by making Moral Sciences COMPULSORY, it will solve this problem. If that were so, how would one explain S. Bhaskar's comments, which in fact are true to a large extent? In the good old days, education was thru the 'Gurukul' methodology, where such moral education was pretty standard.
Now that doesn't mean that Moral Education isn't needed--as far as I can see, it will ENSURE THAT the foundation of the future is laid well. But what about the PRESENT & despite Moral Education, if kids see & hear corruption on a daily basis with their eyes & ears, would such education have any 'retentive effect'?
Coming to Pon's remarks: "........obviously, the person who is offering the bribe".Though what he mentions about the temple scenario is a fact that we watch regularly, there are TWO facets to any such corruption situation, NOT JUST what he or others mentioned:
1] It takes TWO to tango, like the Americans say...or in our language, it takes TWO HANDS/PALMS to clap. The proof of this is Good HR's comments: 'WE DO NOT PAY COMMISSIONS & WE DO NOT WORK FOR COMPANIES WHERE THE HR HEAD / MANAGER EXPECTS A COMMISSION'.
Like the saying goes--everything has a price to be paid, I know the price Good HR had to pay for this trait/ethic.
So was there any corruption involved here? I can understand his/her situation very well, since I too sail in an IDENTICAL [NOT 'same'] boat. I have had to decide to continue or loose Top-Notch companies--NOT 'company' [among the TOP-5 IT companies] as clients, let alone the many small & medium-sized ones because of this factor. And I know what I LOST in terms of 'success' [as per the 'definition' that S. Bhaskar gave-in fact I don't think he's alone in such a definition] and also what I GAINED in terms of mental/spiritual peace & balance. After all those companies aren't the ONLY ones on the face of Earth--however much they may arrogate themselves. Today I am dealing with companies where there are NO DEALS.
2] We talk about 'taking steps, action, etc' to stop this practice. But is the HR community really serious?
A case in point: I am not sure that out of the many HR professionals that this Forum has, how many are working where the Company practice has been to INSIST on the contact details ALONG WITH the resumes for the initial scrutiny. I know there are such Companies. Is such info REALLY NEEDED at that stage of the process? the reasons given range from 'company rules' to 'we want to speed up the process & we can do it better'--or words amounting to that effect & so on.
Now an interesting scenario emerges--either that particular HR person is corrupt [wanting to use methods what Good HR mentioned] OR he/she is UNKNOWINGLY creating scope for a corrupt colleague to take advantage of the situation--whom would one blame? The system was created in such a way that it's only 'WHEN' rather than 'IF' corruption takes place in that Company.
Like Archna mentioned about '....take some steps to curb corruption in our areas......', can the members of this Forum working in such Companies PUT A STOP TO THIS PRACTICE--to begin with?
What she said is right. What the other person does or says IS NOT IN OUR HANDS, but what I/WE can DO/SAY is in OUR HANDS--why not take a stand & make a beginning?
But this would be just a speck of sand......like the saying goes. If those who are corrupt in this profession need to be handled the right/proper way, a lot needs to be done for which I don't think individual efforts would suffice. It would need a platform where like-minded professionals would join to devise a PoA...mind you, this wouldn't be easy at all, having seen how HR persons can be smart in devising their own ways of handling such corruption from THEIR perspective. In a way, they could put even Ramalinga Raju to shame. This MAY also need the help of sting operations--those members who work in the Media could get involved in such situations.
Will/Can CiteHR pick up the gauntlet?
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Going by the general comments made by many of the members, looks like Good HR is in the dock MORE for the way [tone, tenor, etc] in which he/she has raised this topic--NOT that he/she raised it at all.
Let's look @ it VERY OBJECTIVELY--is this the FIRST TIME that this topic was raised in CiteHR? DEFINITELY NOT. Then while the earlier Postings got just 2-3 responses [max--'single-digit' responses], why is it that THIS Posting got so many responses--already into the Second Page within ONE DAY?
I guess, sometimes it does need a 'jhatka' to ensure the rest of the crowd EITHER wakes up from slumber OR takes notice. Good HR's tone & tenor seems to have served that purpose. To take a case in point, whoever expected Anna Hazare to get the level & scale of response in the first few hours of sitting for his satyagraha? Definitely NOT HIM--which he mentioned later. Good HR's Posting seems to have acted like that Satyagraha here on CiteHR :-)
But, frankly, I think Good HR should have changed gears to get into the suggestive mold immediately thereafter--to get to the specifics/brasstacks on 'HOW TO HANDLE' the issue rather than taking the stand he/she did....including the 'judgemental' role.
Nikhil R made a comment, in the form of a query: But do you think this will happen?
I don't think it will, IF WE JUST keep asking 'But do you think this will happen?' or even worse: "This will not happen", because it's been there since 1000s of years--going by S. Bhaskar's examples.
For those who follow history, Untouchability existed in this country since almost the same timeframe that S. Bhaskar mentioned. What's the scenario now? Not that it's FULLY-100%-eradicated.....but 'almost yes'. Some things take time to change....in this case nearly 2 centuries, to reach this stage. But IT WILL. And this was thanks to William Benetick [not too sure of the spelling, but that's beside the point], the then Governor General of India--early/mid 1800s. Now I only hope some smart-elec doesn't wake up to say that let the British or some other countrymen rule India again for this corruption scourge to be removed !! :-)
I would differ from Good HR's comments that others are trying to 'justify' their views. I think it's more of an unwillingness to DO & ACT rather than justifying--since it's normal human nature to be afraid/resist change & more importantly unwillingness to move-out of the 'Comfort Zone'. The reason why I say this is 28677c5420521383353edc6e6's comments: In a country where Moral Science and Civics studies are OPTIONAL..........
I am not so sure that just by making Moral Sciences COMPULSORY, it will solve this problem. If that were so, how would one explain S. Bhaskar's comments, which in fact are true to a large extent? In the good old days, education was thru the 'Gurukul' methodology, where such moral education was pretty standard.
Now that doesn't mean that Moral Education isn't needed--as far as I can see, it will ENSURE THAT the foundation of the future is laid well. But what about the PRESENT & despite Moral Education, if kids see & hear corruption on a daily basis with their eyes & ears, would such education have any 'retentive effect'?
Coming to Pon's remarks: "........obviously, the person who is offering the bribe".Though what he mentions about the temple scenario is a fact that we watch regularly, there are TWO facets to any such corruption situation, NOT JUST what he or others mentioned:
1] It takes TWO to tango, like the Americans say...or in our language, it takes TWO HANDS/PALMS to clap. The proof of this is Good HR's comments: 'WE DO NOT PAY COMMISSIONS & WE DO NOT WORK FOR COMPANIES WHERE THE HR HEAD / MANAGER EXPECTS A COMMISSION'.
Like the saying goes--everything has a price to be paid, I know the price Good HR had to pay for this trait/ethic.
So was there any corruption involved here? I can understand his/her situation very well, since I too sail in an IDENTICAL [NOT 'same'] boat. I have had to decide to continue or loose Top-Notch companies--NOT 'company' [among the TOP-5 IT companies] as clients, let alone the many small & medium-sized ones because of this factor. And I know what I LOST in terms of 'success' [as per the 'definition' that S. Bhaskar gave-in fact I don't think he's alone in such a definition] and also what I GAINED in terms of mental/spiritual peace & balance. After all those companies aren't the ONLY ones on the face of Earth--however much they may arrogate themselves. Today I am dealing with companies where there are NO DEALS.
2] We talk about 'taking steps, action, etc' to stop this practice. But is the HR community really serious?
A case in point: I am not sure that out of the many HR professionals that this Forum has, how many are working where the Company practice has been to INSIST on the contact details ALONG WITH the resumes for the initial scrutiny. I know there are such Companies. Is such info REALLY NEEDED at that stage of the process? the reasons given range from 'company rules' to 'we want to speed up the process & we can do it better'--or words amounting to that effect & so on.
Now an interesting scenario emerges--either that particular HR person is corrupt [wanting to use methods what Good HR mentioned] OR he/she is UNKNOWINGLY creating scope for a corrupt colleague to take advantage of the situation--whom would one blame? The system was created in such a way that it's only 'WHEN' rather than 'IF' corruption takes place in that Company.
Like Archna mentioned about '....take some steps to curb corruption in our areas......', can the members of this Forum working in such Companies PUT A STOP TO THIS PRACTICE--to begin with?
What she said is right. What the other person does or says IS NOT IN OUR HANDS, but what I/WE can DO/SAY is in OUR HANDS--why not take a stand & make a beginning?
But this would be just a speck of sand......like the saying goes. If those who are corrupt in this profession need to be handled the right/proper way, a lot needs to be done for which I don't think individual efforts would suffice. It would need a platform where like-minded professionals would join to devise a PoA...mind you, this wouldn't be easy at all, having seen how HR persons can be smart in devising their own ways of handling such corruption from THEIR perspective. In a way, they could put even Ramalinga Raju to shame. This MAY also need the help of sting operations--those members who work in the Media could get involved in such situations.
Will/Can CiteHR pick up the gauntlet?
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I absolutely agree with this solution towards instilling some sense of civic morality in generations.
From Kuwait, Salmiya
From Kuwait, Salmiya
Hey kraviravi
I LOVED your POST!
How true! All those justifying corruption are in some way justifying their own corrupt ways and are keeping the door open for any future opportunities...This is Hypocrisy!. ..In the name of democracy ...right of views etc... these Hypocrates are having a difficult time keep their moral pretenses.
I was wondering, how easy it is to know your actual views on corruption & your willingness to change!!
As mentioned by someone that I am being personal! WHY NOT?? Have the corrupt & those who support / justify corruption not getting personal with me by taking away my right to an honest living or atleast to fight the menace?? Why can't I get personal with thieves?? Why are we so afraid of punishing the wrong doers?? Why does your blood NOT boil against thieves, corrupts, rapists??? Why are you so tolerant towards them..makes me wonder???
Obviously it is "Chor ki dadi main tinka".
Time has come to tackle this menace with lot of aggression & emotions.
No time for debates.
What is there to debate?
Just Punish the corrupt. Period.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
I LOVED your POST!
How true! All those justifying corruption are in some way justifying their own corrupt ways and are keeping the door open for any future opportunities...This is Hypocrisy!. ..In the name of democracy ...right of views etc... these Hypocrates are having a difficult time keep their moral pretenses.
I was wondering, how easy it is to know your actual views on corruption & your willingness to change!!
As mentioned by someone that I am being personal! WHY NOT?? Have the corrupt & those who support / justify corruption not getting personal with me by taking away my right to an honest living or atleast to fight the menace?? Why can't I get personal with thieves?? Why are we so afraid of punishing the wrong doers?? Why does your blood NOT boil against thieves, corrupts, rapists??? Why are you so tolerant towards them..makes me wonder???
Obviously it is "Chor ki dadi main tinka".
Time has come to tackle this menace with lot of aggression & emotions.
No time for debates.
What is there to debate?
Just Punish the corrupt. Period.
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
At last I find people like tajsateesh on this forum!
You are right, the abrasive tenor & tone has been deliberate. People need to be shaken up!
We know that it is easy to teach skills & more difficult to change attitudes.
Just imagine how difficult it would be to change a person's character!!
The only solution I see is to catch them young and start engraving ethics, patriotism right from Nursery class. I don't expect the hardened attitudes who claim to have been "taught by their parents to be corrupt" to change them selves at this age. Let them be as they are -----but let's make life difficult for them.
They MUST NOT be allowed to sleep in PEACE.
And for everyone's information, I really did a sting operation and recorded me handing over cash to a senior HR manager of a reputed Telecom company. This happened when I was forced to hand over commission. I later revealed it to him and took back the cash, reported to his Top management, had him fired and then stopped working for this company. I was thinking of posting that video on youtube, but I do not wish to expose that person and ruin whatever is left of his career.
This is what can be done!!! And I DID IT.
NOW...Please let someone tell me now Nothing can be done.
All those Supporters & corrupt Junior/ Senior HR Managers - BEWARE!!
A group of like minded consultants, Vendors (& junior HR professionals working under your very noses:)) was already formed last year and is in the process of an elaborate & structured plan to collect evidence against all the HR Professionals indulging in taking commissions & Malpractices. A huge number will be in a for a SHOCK of their lives very soon :)
We have a taken a VOW to finish off your careers.
So please wake up before it is too late.
Good.HR. Associates.
From India, Chandigarh
You are right, the abrasive tenor & tone has been deliberate. People need to be shaken up!
We know that it is easy to teach skills & more difficult to change attitudes.
Just imagine how difficult it would be to change a person's character!!
The only solution I see is to catch them young and start engraving ethics, patriotism right from Nursery class. I don't expect the hardened attitudes who claim to have been "taught by their parents to be corrupt" to change them selves at this age. Let them be as they are -----but let's make life difficult for them.
They MUST NOT be allowed to sleep in PEACE.
And for everyone's information, I really did a sting operation and recorded me handing over cash to a senior HR manager of a reputed Telecom company. This happened when I was forced to hand over commission. I later revealed it to him and took back the cash, reported to his Top management, had him fired and then stopped working for this company. I was thinking of posting that video on youtube, but I do not wish to expose that person and ruin whatever is left of his career.
This is what can be done!!! And I DID IT.
NOW...Please let someone tell me now Nothing can be done.
All those Supporters & corrupt Junior/ Senior HR Managers - BEWARE!!
A group of like minded consultants, Vendors (& junior HR professionals working under your very noses:)) was already formed last year and is in the process of an elaborate & structured plan to collect evidence against all the HR Professionals indulging in taking commissions & Malpractices. A huge number will be in a for a SHOCK of their lives very soon :)
We have a taken a VOW to finish off your careers.
So please wake up before it is too late.
Good.HR. Associates.
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Good.HR. Associates.
There is a two line kavita in Hindi
Rishwat Liya; Pakada Gaya
Rishwat Diya; Chod diya.
This is the world. No one can finish anybody's careers. It is their deed which decides their life, career, growth, fall, etc.
From India, Kumbakonam
There is a two line kavita in Hindi
Rishwat Liya; Pakada Gaya
Rishwat Diya; Chod diya.
This is the world. No one can finish anybody's careers. It is their deed which decides their life, career, growth, fall, etc.
From India, Kumbakonam
Corruption is not only accepting or taking material benefits. what about corrupt mind? expecting disproportionate increment not in commensurate with their actual efficiency or threatening the employer with resignation for pay hike, etc, as we are witnessing in the corporate world. Corruption or corrupt mind can not be completely weeded out but can be minimised in a democratic country.
Pon
From India, Lucknow
Pon
From India, Lucknow
Hi Boss
I really did not understand.
Are you For or Against Corruption?
It is time to come out in open and stop beating around the bush...and stop being Philosophical about corruption...
About finishing career & businesses...if the corrupt can effect my business & earnings why can't I effect their careers? Simple.
About the good & Honest HR Professionals..we go out of our way to support them in every possible way.
It is only the corrupt, biased & unscrupulous HR Managers we are up against. I am sure you won't like to speak in favor of the corrupt HR professionals. There need not be any fraternity feeling since I too have served at very senior HR posts in Govt & corporate sectors
Let me tell you ALL corrupt HR managers - Just watch out! We have a very elaborate scheme to cause Maximum damage. We have Technical guys & legal brains supporting us on this venture.
Good. HR.Associates
From India, Chandigarh
I really did not understand.
Are you For or Against Corruption?
It is time to come out in open and stop beating around the bush...and stop being Philosophical about corruption...
About finishing career & businesses...if the corrupt can effect my business & earnings why can't I effect their careers? Simple.
About the good & Honest HR Professionals..we go out of our way to support them in every possible way.
It is only the corrupt, biased & unscrupulous HR Managers we are up against. I am sure you won't like to speak in favor of the corrupt HR professionals. There need not be any fraternity feeling since I too have served at very senior HR posts in Govt & corporate sectors
Let me tell you ALL corrupt HR managers - Just watch out! We have a very elaborate scheme to cause Maximum damage. We have Technical guys & legal brains supporting us on this venture.
Good. HR.Associates
From India, Chandigarh
Dear All
I am really disturbed by the overwhelming majority of "Naysayers". Those who have accepted or want to accept corruption as part of their daily life.
I don't know what do I want to call them!
Will "SPINELESS" be an appropriate term?
Now...now... I know that I have bought the wrath of the "spineless"
.....unconsciously the "spineless" will identify the term with themselves and respond in defense of their missing spines :)
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
I am really disturbed by the overwhelming majority of "Naysayers". Those who have accepted or want to accept corruption as part of their daily life.
I don't know what do I want to call them!
Will "SPINELESS" be an appropriate term?
Now...now... I know that I have bought the wrath of the "spineless"
.....unconsciously the "spineless" will identify the term with themselves and respond in defense of their missing spines :)
Good HR Associates
From India, Chandigarh
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Corporate Corruption Crack Down and Lesson for Indian Companies to Learn from It.pdf