Dear Saswata,
I am referring to your post regarding instructing an employee to replace a lost laptop. When an employee loses a laptop, there are two types of losses: one is the company's fixed asset, and the other is the information contained in the asset that is also lost. However, asking the employee to replace the laptop would mean recovering a higher value than what is recorded in the company's books of account, which is unethical.
In such a situation, the company can conduct a domestic inquiry and impose two punishments. Firstly, the recovery can be based on the depreciated value of the laptop, and secondly, there can be a penalty for the loss of data.
The best approach is to ensure that the employee or manager properly fills out a designed loan card when allocating the company's assets. The loan card should include the date of purchase of the asset and the value of the asset to promote transparency.
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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8219I am referring to your post regarding instructing an employee to replace a lost laptop. When an employee loses a laptop, there are two types of losses: one is the company's fixed asset, and the other is the information contained in the asset that is also lost. However, asking the employee to replace the laptop would mean recovering a higher value than what is recorded in the company's books of account, which is unethical.
In such a situation, the company can conduct a domestic inquiry and impose two punishments. Firstly, the recovery can be based on the depreciated value of the laptop, and secondly, there can be a penalty for the loss of data.
The best approach is to ensure that the employee or manager properly fills out a designed loan card when allocating the company's assets. The loan card should include the date of purchase of the asset and the value of the asset to promote transparency.
Dinesh V Divekar
From India, Bangalore
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Greetings to all,
I agree with Mr Dinesh, to replace the laptop wont be ethical. Also the cost of it in terms of money and as per the present value after applicable depreciation of an assent, wont be more then 75,000/-, therefore, i would say that it is really good for your friend that the Management has decided recover value of lost laptop with Rs. 65,000/-
As per general procedure that we adopt in this kind of case, we charge the amount based on booked value of the laptop after allowing depreciation of 15% per annum (15x3) and 5% (5x3) for maintenance is less than Rs.75000 (60% of actual value at the buying price of an asset) can be treated an appropriate and applicable value.
Regarding the suggestion for loan card, is also good but I doubt and wanna ask few question to you all
-Can this suggestion be included under the “IT and Asset” policy?
-Loan card for allowing company asset, would it be an effective step or the solution to prevent and deal with this kind of cases.
After all valuable responses with respect to the knowledge and experience of members, one more thing I would like buy that that your friend is lucky because company has not lodge any police complain/FIR in this regard, but that they just have decided to charge the amount of Rs. 65,000/- because the data and information they have lost with this laptop, can be used by many ways which wont be acceptable and is a another big concern.
From India, Gurgaon
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I agree with Mr Dinesh, to replace the laptop wont be ethical. Also the cost of it in terms of money and as per the present value after applicable depreciation of an assent, wont be more then 75,000/-, therefore, i would say that it is really good for your friend that the Management has decided recover value of lost laptop with Rs. 65,000/-
As per general procedure that we adopt in this kind of case, we charge the amount based on booked value of the laptop after allowing depreciation of 15% per annum (15x3) and 5% (5x3) for maintenance is less than Rs.75000 (60% of actual value at the buying price of an asset) can be treated an appropriate and applicable value.
Regarding the suggestion for loan card, is also good but I doubt and wanna ask few question to you all
-Can this suggestion be included under the “IT and Asset” policy?
-Loan card for allowing company asset, would it be an effective step or the solution to prevent and deal with this kind of cases.
After all valuable responses with respect to the knowledge and experience of members, one more thing I would like buy that that your friend is lucky because company has not lodge any police complain/FIR in this regard, but that they just have decided to charge the amount of Rs. 65,000/- because the data and information they have lost with this laptop, can be used by many ways which wont be acceptable and is a another big concern.
From India, Gurgaon
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Anil, Dinesh
From the company's point of view, what is important is not the depreciated value but the fact that they have to buy a new laptop which was not needed or budgeted for. That they will get a better one than what was bought a year back is also incidental. It's a loss for the company to have spent even that much.
Most companies I know do their insurance on replacement cost for the same reason. So no, it's not unethical for the company to charge the employee higher than the book value. It would make the employee more careful, hopefully.
Most large and organized companies already keep asset trackers and get signatures on registers for laptops allotted. Or they have mail confirmation. Larger companies have a requisition system to be made by the employee approved by the concerned manager.
From India, Mumbai
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From the company's point of view, what is important is not the depreciated value but the fact that they have to buy a new laptop which was not needed or budgeted for. That they will get a better one than what was bought a year back is also incidental. It's a loss for the company to have spent even that much.
Most companies I know do their insurance on replacement cost for the same reason. So no, it's not unethical for the company to charge the employee higher than the book value. It would make the employee more careful, hopefully.
Most large and organized companies already keep asset trackers and get signatures on registers for laptops allotted. Or they have mail confirmation. Larger companies have a requisition system to be made by the employee approved by the concerned manager.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi, Saswata Banerjee,
Thanks for your response and I respect and buy your point of you but If you forget dear, then let me remind you that there is still no information shared by S. Vinoth Kumar (Thread owner) like Management asked for a new laptop to recover this loose but asked for repayment, therefore, now I request S. Vinoth Kumar to make it clear to us.
Now before going further, I would like to ask few questions:
-Who defines the terms and conditions or responsible for the formation of policies?
-Who is directly responsible for allotment of any asset to any employee?
-Who recommends this need/requirement of using laptops and to whom?
-Who regulates this procedure, fulfill this requirement and responsible for maintaining a record of allotment and
-Who is responsible for all work said above… in short which DEPARTMENT?
Lastly
-Suppose, you have allotted a laptop by your employer three years ago which is now needs to be repaired soon, what you gonna do, would you ask this to get repaired by your company /department/ employer or gonna bear the expenses of it by your own?
Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this.
And, if any employer (available at this community) has ever asked for a new laptop/any asset in replacement of lost/misplaced of any asset by any employee and having policy with any such terms & conditions, shall be obliged to know more about it. I am eager to know from all Employers (Members) available here please.
Also, to return a new laptop against old laptop won’t be a professional, ethical or practical decision.
Lets buys your point dear, if management decides to recover laptop in replacement of a lost laptop, do you have any idea how much cost of a new laptop would be today, with the same configuration and would it be acceptable to the Management.
One more thing I would like to add, your point is valid that Management always seeks for benefits, and I hope now you gonna have a clear idea which is more beneficial to Management.
Let’s not stretch it further, and accept that on practical terms, management won’t go for new laptop but for repayment and MR VINOTH, WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DEVELOPMENT IN THIS REGARD, PLEASE DO INFORM US WITH IT.
And about procedure of Companies in regard to allotment of any asset and maintaining record, which is now a common practice even with very small firms and acceptable.
From India, Gurgaon
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Thanks for your response and I respect and buy your point of you but If you forget dear, then let me remind you that there is still no information shared by S. Vinoth Kumar (Thread owner) like Management asked for a new laptop to recover this loose but asked for repayment, therefore, now I request S. Vinoth Kumar to make it clear to us.
Now before going further, I would like to ask few questions:
-Who defines the terms and conditions or responsible for the formation of policies?
-Who is directly responsible for allotment of any asset to any employee?
-Who recommends this need/requirement of using laptops and to whom?
-Who regulates this procedure, fulfill this requirement and responsible for maintaining a record of allotment and
-Who is responsible for all work said above… in short which DEPARTMENT?
Lastly
-Suppose, you have allotted a laptop by your employer three years ago which is now needs to be repaired soon, what you gonna do, would you ask this to get repaired by your company /department/ employer or gonna bear the expenses of it by your own?
Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this.
And, if any employer (available at this community) has ever asked for a new laptop/any asset in replacement of lost/misplaced of any asset by any employee and having policy with any such terms & conditions, shall be obliged to know more about it. I am eager to know from all Employers (Members) available here please.
Also, to return a new laptop against old laptop won’t be a professional, ethical or practical decision.
Lets buys your point dear, if management decides to recover laptop in replacement of a lost laptop, do you have any idea how much cost of a new laptop would be today, with the same configuration and would it be acceptable to the Management.
One more thing I would like to add, your point is valid that Management always seeks for benefits, and I hope now you gonna have a clear idea which is more beneficial to Management.
Let’s not stretch it further, and accept that on practical terms, management won’t go for new laptop but for repayment and MR VINOTH, WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DEVELOPMENT IN THIS REGARD, PLEASE DO INFORM US WITH IT.
And about procedure of Companies in regard to allotment of any asset and maintaining record, which is now a common practice even with very small firms and acceptable.
From India, Gurgaon
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Anil,
The original poster has stated that the company asked for depreciated value. The employee is complaining it is unfair. My point is it is not unfair. In fact, the company could have asked for a replacement. The insurance company refused to pass the claim as it was carelessness on the part. The insurance company's denial of the claim is a good indicator of the employee's liability for the loss. With detailed information, I can't say more.
I have seen many employers who, as a rule, ask for replacement. It has to be of similar or better configuration. It's stated in their employee handbook. For reasons of confidentiality, I can't give names in an open forum. It includes one of the largest travel companies in the world, 4 large MNC IT companies, and 2 of the big 4 accounting firms.
From India, Mumbai
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The original poster has stated that the company asked for depreciated value. The employee is complaining it is unfair. My point is it is not unfair. In fact, the company could have asked for a replacement. The insurance company refused to pass the claim as it was carelessness on the part. The insurance company's denial of the claim is a good indicator of the employee's liability for the loss. With detailed information, I can't say more.
I have seen many employers who, as a rule, ask for replacement. It has to be of similar or better configuration. It's stated in their employee handbook. For reasons of confidentiality, I can't give names in an open forum. It includes one of the largest travel companies in the world, 4 large MNC IT companies, and 2 of the big 4 accounting firms.
From India, Mumbai
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Dear All, As per trailing mail,it should be recovered from employee (Deprecation Value) because if it is not done there will not be any care of company assets. RAGHU
From India, Bhopal
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From India, Bhopal
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I agree with many valuable points mentioned above by our HR Fraternity.
I agree with one of the points that beforehand a company should have:
1. A clear HR Policy on company assets issued to employees.
2. To outline the purpose and usage of company assets, including any limitations.
3. Procedures for handling loss, theft, or damage of company property (considering all scenarios when creating the policy).
4. Since laptops are crucial sources of business information today, employees should declare their commitment to protecting company information at all costs.
5. Protocols for recovery in case of item 4.
From my experience, I would like to share that in one company, following their policy, management assessed the difference between the insurance claim and the laptop's book value in cases of genuine loss. They then collected the corresponding amount from the employee. However, this practice applies to unique cases only and is not a general rule.
You may consider approaching it this way.
B. Dakshina Murty
Sr. Manager - HR
From India, Hyderabad
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I agree with one of the points that beforehand a company should have:
1. A clear HR Policy on company assets issued to employees.
2. To outline the purpose and usage of company assets, including any limitations.
3. Procedures for handling loss, theft, or damage of company property (considering all scenarios when creating the policy).
4. Since laptops are crucial sources of business information today, employees should declare their commitment to protecting company information at all costs.
5. Protocols for recovery in case of item 4.
From my experience, I would like to share that in one company, following their policy, management assessed the difference between the insurance claim and the laptop's book value in cases of genuine loss. They then collected the corresponding amount from the employee. However, this practice applies to unique cases only and is not a general rule.
You may consider approaching it this way.
B. Dakshina Murty
Sr. Manager - HR
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Mr.Anil,
I beg to differ with you on your view
"Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this."
If employers (HR or Finance department) start taking responsibility then the monkey gets shifted to the employer and it becomes their responsibility to get the asset replaced. Though the procedure of insuring assets is the onus of the employer, employee is equally responsible for safety of the assets handed over to him.
For example if a company provides latest mobile phones to its employees and one employee loses it and the company starts lodging a police complaint, the lost mobile phone is invariably not retrieved as we have seen in many cases. If we admit that the first case is genuine and set the employee free then there could be several cases of lost mobile phones. Trust you will appreciate my view point, as all employees are not genuine.
So in the interest of the organisation it is important that the company takes stringent measures to check loss of assets due to carelessness of the employee.
M.V.Kannan
From India, Madras
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I beg to differ with you on your view
"Laptop has lost mistakenly and the respective management can just inquired about this mistake, can lodge a “Missing/Lost Asset” complaint to police which is required/necessary for security reasons (to prevent for wrong usage of it as per rule of cyber and other social security laws) but can’t claim that employee has done it consciously without any proof or firm evidence. And if it is done by a mistake, employer has no right to ask employee to return a new laptop in replacement which is common thing and understandable. And I don’t think anyone (employer) have done like this."
If employers (HR or Finance department) start taking responsibility then the monkey gets shifted to the employer and it becomes their responsibility to get the asset replaced. Though the procedure of insuring assets is the onus of the employer, employee is equally responsible for safety of the assets handed over to him.
For example if a company provides latest mobile phones to its employees and one employee loses it and the company starts lodging a police complaint, the lost mobile phone is invariably not retrieved as we have seen in many cases. If we admit that the first case is genuine and set the employee free then there could be several cases of lost mobile phones. Trust you will appreciate my view point, as all employees are not genuine.
So in the interest of the organisation it is important that the company takes stringent measures to check loss of assets due to carelessness of the employee.
M.V.Kannan
From India, Madras
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A laptop issued by the company to an employee for official use contains information pertaining to the organization.
I know that in one company, it is specified that the IT department will take back-up regularly from the employees' laptop; this ensures that the database is not lost.
From India, Madras
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I know that in one company, it is specified that the IT department will take back-up regularly from the employees' laptop; this ensures that the database is not lost.
From India, Madras
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Well, if the company handed over you the laptop, then you are solely responsible for it. In case it is damaged and the insurance company is not willing to pay, then you will have to cover the cost for the laptop. You can also approach your HR department to discuss any financial issues or specific concerns you may have.
From India, Lucknow
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From India, Lucknow
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