Mr Saikumar is absolutely right to the point. Varghese Mathew
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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929From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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Hello All,
To reply to post no. 7 by Sai Bhakta:
Sir,
I agree with the point that companies should be transparent.
Hence, I did mention that I myself do not approve of what HR did. Because no matter what the issue, it is to be communicated to the employee.
I just had said that asking for resignation is not unfair given certain circumstances. Above all, since we do not know the complete scenario as to what happened, we cannot claim if it was fair or not. We have not heard the HR's story. It wouldn't be available unless they are transparent.
I didn't promote the practice of terminating or forceful resignation; I just said to be patient enough to listen to both sides of stories before concluding on something or judging someone.
I hope I am not wrong there, as even our legislation says so.
==============================================
Reply to Post 8:
Hello Mr. Umakanthan,
To be very honest, sir, I am not as experienced to know if this kind of practice prevails more in a particular sector.
But as per my understanding,
Unions are mostly found in manufacturing or related firms.
Unions are seen with labor.
Labor used to be an uneducated bunch of people, and their employers used to take advantage of that situation. Hence, a union was formed wherein the leader used to do all the surveys and analysis and used to guide the team, and because of the unity of the team, seldom were the employers able to take advantage.
However, if the employer gives benefits to the leader, the laborers could be taken advantage of.
When we talk of the IT sector, it is a different sector. And though there are no unions formed, we still can approach the labor office and share the concern and file a complaint against the employer who is taking advantage of us.
And I believe we all should be raising our voice to the ill that happens. Unless we raise our voice, we cannot expect others to help us.
I do not know what answer was being expected, but this is what I believe in.
===============================================
Reply to Post No. 9 & 10:
Mr. Sai Kumar,
I do not know much about IR and labor laws, but when I shared a concern about my friend who is not being given her relieving letter and about her one-sided service bond, I was asked to advise her to meet the labor officer and take the matter there.
I may be wrong, but that was the suggestion given.
I do not know of any company that practices this.
I have friends working in the IT sector and have confirmed with all they have not handed over their degrees, etc., in original to the employer. They were asked to get it for verification but had not kept it with them even for a day.
I can understand that there are some SMBs who follow such unethical practices, maybe because they are unaware of the consequences or they think the people are unaware of their rights.
===========================================
And I really didn't understand why these questions were specifically asked to me?
If I may ask, may I know the reason for the same?
From India, Mumbai
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To reply to post no. 7 by Sai Bhakta:
Sir,
I agree with the point that companies should be transparent.
Hence, I did mention that I myself do not approve of what HR did. Because no matter what the issue, it is to be communicated to the employee.
I just had said that asking for resignation is not unfair given certain circumstances. Above all, since we do not know the complete scenario as to what happened, we cannot claim if it was fair or not. We have not heard the HR's story. It wouldn't be available unless they are transparent.
I didn't promote the practice of terminating or forceful resignation; I just said to be patient enough to listen to both sides of stories before concluding on something or judging someone.
I hope I am not wrong there, as even our legislation says so.
==============================================
Reply to Post 8:
Hello Mr. Umakanthan,
To be very honest, sir, I am not as experienced to know if this kind of practice prevails more in a particular sector.
But as per my understanding,
Unions are mostly found in manufacturing or related firms.
Unions are seen with labor.
Labor used to be an uneducated bunch of people, and their employers used to take advantage of that situation. Hence, a union was formed wherein the leader used to do all the surveys and analysis and used to guide the team, and because of the unity of the team, seldom were the employers able to take advantage.
However, if the employer gives benefits to the leader, the laborers could be taken advantage of.
When we talk of the IT sector, it is a different sector. And though there are no unions formed, we still can approach the labor office and share the concern and file a complaint against the employer who is taking advantage of us.
And I believe we all should be raising our voice to the ill that happens. Unless we raise our voice, we cannot expect others to help us.
I do not know what answer was being expected, but this is what I believe in.
===============================================
Reply to Post No. 9 & 10:
Mr. Sai Kumar,
I do not know much about IR and labor laws, but when I shared a concern about my friend who is not being given her relieving letter and about her one-sided service bond, I was asked to advise her to meet the labor officer and take the matter there.
I may be wrong, but that was the suggestion given.
I do not know of any company that practices this.
I have friends working in the IT sector and have confirmed with all they have not handed over their degrees, etc., in original to the employer. They were asked to get it for verification but had not kept it with them even for a day.
I can understand that there are some SMBs who follow such unethical practices, maybe because they are unaware of the consequences or they think the people are unaware of their rights.
===========================================
And I really didn't understand why these questions were specifically asked to me?
If I may ask, may I know the reason for the same?
From India, Mumbai
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Dear,
Whatever has happened is very unfair and condemnable, but the victim is a female. I am not sure how brave she is and how much she needs the job. If the job is not a major compulsion, she can take a stronger stand, and I am sure she will win. Otherwise, if she lacks the guts and will to fight, let her go to the office and submit her resignation letter simultaneously by obtaining an experience letter.
In case she wishes to fight the injustice, she should send the company a legal notice. Also, just recollect the events of the last few days; it may be a case of sexual harassment. If so, instead of wasting time, she should file an FIR and a letter to the women's commission. Whatever she decides, I am sure she will win.
So, instead of wasting her time, she should take action.
Best wishes.
From India, Delhi
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Whatever has happened is very unfair and condemnable, but the victim is a female. I am not sure how brave she is and how much she needs the job. If the job is not a major compulsion, she can take a stronger stand, and I am sure she will win. Otherwise, if she lacks the guts and will to fight, let her go to the office and submit her resignation letter simultaneously by obtaining an experience letter.
In case she wishes to fight the injustice, she should send the company a legal notice. Also, just recollect the events of the last few days; it may be a case of sexual harassment. If so, instead of wasting time, she should file an FIR and a letter to the women's commission. Whatever she decides, I am sure she will win.
So, instead of wasting her time, she should take action.
Best wishes.
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ankita,
Thank you for your nice replies at a stretch. You may have wondered why these questions are directed particularly to you. Since my response is the starting point in this direction, I feel obliged to answer first. I posed the questions to you because your reply to Mr. Prabat seemed apt, displaying lateral thinking and considering both sides of the coin.
Although I served as an official in the State Labour Department for about 32 years in various capacities, such as Conciliation Officer, Quasi-Judicial Authority, and Enforcement Officer of certain non-technical labor laws, I remained mostly an onlooker with limited inputs required for my duties. People like yourself would be better informed about the happenings in different industrial sectors and the reasons behind them.
Corporate Social Responsibility, a topic on everyone's lips, cannot thrive without considering employees who are also part of society. Especially in matters of hiring and firing, certain minimum levels of ethics and transparency are expected from employers, regardless of the industry they operate in. Unfortunately, in our country, there is a prevalent notion that the sole purpose of education is to secure a decent livelihood. This belief has led to an unprecedented rush for professional degrees post-globalization.
Therefore, before terminating an employee for poor performance, various implications of such a drastic decision should be dispassionately considered. Factors such as the cost of training, the future of the concerned employee and their family, the moral impact on other employees, legal consequences, etc., should all be carefully evaluated. While final decisions are made by top management, it is true that HR input significantly influences these decisions.
I hope this clarifies the context of my questions and the discussion at hand.
Best regards,
[Your Name]
From India, Salem
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Thank you for your nice replies at a stretch. You may have wondered why these questions are directed particularly to you. Since my response is the starting point in this direction, I feel obliged to answer first. I posed the questions to you because your reply to Mr. Prabat seemed apt, displaying lateral thinking and considering both sides of the coin.
Although I served as an official in the State Labour Department for about 32 years in various capacities, such as Conciliation Officer, Quasi-Judicial Authority, and Enforcement Officer of certain non-technical labor laws, I remained mostly an onlooker with limited inputs required for my duties. People like yourself would be better informed about the happenings in different industrial sectors and the reasons behind them.
Corporate Social Responsibility, a topic on everyone's lips, cannot thrive without considering employees who are also part of society. Especially in matters of hiring and firing, certain minimum levels of ethics and transparency are expected from employers, regardless of the industry they operate in. Unfortunately, in our country, there is a prevalent notion that the sole purpose of education is to secure a decent livelihood. This belief has led to an unprecedented rush for professional degrees post-globalization.
Therefore, before terminating an employee for poor performance, various implications of such a drastic decision should be dispassionately considered. Factors such as the cost of training, the future of the concerned employee and their family, the moral impact on other employees, legal consequences, etc., should all be carefully evaluated. While final decisions are made by top management, it is true that HR input significantly influences these decisions.
I hope this clarifies the context of my questions and the discussion at hand.
Best regards,
[Your Name]
From India, Salem
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Hello Ankita,
Thanks for replying to everyone's responses.
My advice to desist from going to labor authorities with a complaint after resigning and negotiating a hassle-free exit is in response to SAIBHAKT's suggestion but not in response to yours, as I honestly believe that such a fight is quite inexpedient from the career point of view of the employee. The focus is likely to shift from shaping her career to slurring an ex-employer, with the minuscule benefit it brings, except for providing the smug satisfaction of paying the ex-employer in the same coin. However, this does not mean that an employee should back away from any fight for justice always. Such decisions should be taken based on expediency, considering factors like the substance of injustice, the degree of damage to the interests of the employee, and sometimes the degree of success of such a fight, though it is not guaranteed, not to mention the financial implications involved. In a nutshell, as a popular proverb goes, if you dig the whole mountain only to find a mouse, the exercise is not worth it; if you dig the whole hill to find a few ounces of gold, it is worth it. That is what expediency is all about. As Tajsateesh said, it would be a waste of precious time for a budding HR professional who can put it to better use.
Regarding your query about why the specific query was posed to you, I have not posed any query to you on this matter but am only awaiting to hear your reply to the query asked by a senior member. Nevertheless, I would like to express my view on this question since you have posed it to me. When a senior member poses a query to a young budding professional like you and wants to hear your opinion on the issue, it is a huge compliment to your knowledge and can be inspiring.
As for my desire to hear your reply to the query, I have been going through your posts, and to me, you seem to be an enthusiastic, aspiring woman HR professional, not stuck by the glass ceiling but willing to move forward in your career, trying to stay in touch with contemporary HR issues. So, I am interested in knowing how you respond to the query. I trust I have clarified the position to your satisfaction.
Now, my views on the query posed by the learned member Mr. Umakanthan are:
1) I agree with you on why unionism is not gaining ground in the IT sector. Apart from what you cited, such as literacy, the IT sector is not labor-intensive like the manufacturing sector, so the numbers are not in favor of starting a union.
2) Additionally, employee turnover is so high in the IT sector that the stability and loyalty factors, crucial for starting and sustaining a union in an industry, are difficult to find.
3) The employees in the IT sector are mostly well-educated and belong to the white-collar class. Most importantly, they are not plagued by the insecurity of unemployment, as blue-collar employees in the manufacturing sector usually are, and thus may not find a strong reason to lean on a union to secure their interests.
Do you agree?
B. Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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Thanks for replying to everyone's responses.
My advice to desist from going to labor authorities with a complaint after resigning and negotiating a hassle-free exit is in response to SAIBHAKT's suggestion but not in response to yours, as I honestly believe that such a fight is quite inexpedient from the career point of view of the employee. The focus is likely to shift from shaping her career to slurring an ex-employer, with the minuscule benefit it brings, except for providing the smug satisfaction of paying the ex-employer in the same coin. However, this does not mean that an employee should back away from any fight for justice always. Such decisions should be taken based on expediency, considering factors like the substance of injustice, the degree of damage to the interests of the employee, and sometimes the degree of success of such a fight, though it is not guaranteed, not to mention the financial implications involved. In a nutshell, as a popular proverb goes, if you dig the whole mountain only to find a mouse, the exercise is not worth it; if you dig the whole hill to find a few ounces of gold, it is worth it. That is what expediency is all about. As Tajsateesh said, it would be a waste of precious time for a budding HR professional who can put it to better use.
Regarding your query about why the specific query was posed to you, I have not posed any query to you on this matter but am only awaiting to hear your reply to the query asked by a senior member. Nevertheless, I would like to express my view on this question since you have posed it to me. When a senior member poses a query to a young budding professional like you and wants to hear your opinion on the issue, it is a huge compliment to your knowledge and can be inspiring.
As for my desire to hear your reply to the query, I have been going through your posts, and to me, you seem to be an enthusiastic, aspiring woman HR professional, not stuck by the glass ceiling but willing to move forward in your career, trying to stay in touch with contemporary HR issues. So, I am interested in knowing how you respond to the query. I trust I have clarified the position to your satisfaction.
Now, my views on the query posed by the learned member Mr. Umakanthan are:
1) I agree with you on why unionism is not gaining ground in the IT sector. Apart from what you cited, such as literacy, the IT sector is not labor-intensive like the manufacturing sector, so the numbers are not in favor of starting a union.
2) Additionally, employee turnover is so high in the IT sector that the stability and loyalty factors, crucial for starting and sustaining a union in an industry, are difficult to find.
3) The employees in the IT sector are mostly well-educated and belong to the white-collar class. Most importantly, they are not plagued by the insecurity of unemployment, as blue-collar employees in the manufacturing sector usually are, and thus may not find a strong reason to lean on a union to secure their interests.
Do you agree?
B. Saikumar
Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
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[QUOTE=saiconsult;2041312]Hello Ankita,
To your query as to why the specific query was posed to you, I have not tossed any query to you in this regard but only awaiting to hear your reply to the query asked by a senior member. Nevertheless, I would like to express my view on this question since you have posed it to me. When a senior member posed a query to a young budding professional like you and wants to hear her on the issue, it will be a huge compliment to her knowledge and shall be inspiring.
Trust me, Sir, I was not offended by asking that question to me, but actually wondered why.
More so because I am just a new person and do not have much experience in the industry.
I do try and answer queries as per my knowledge and experience but have my own limitations.
When the question was directed to me, I thought I am to answer it. It really made me feel, "How would I answer the query because I do not think I have sufficient knowledge?" and hence just wished to know why was I asked.
Though it was cleared by both you and Umakanthan sir that it was just to know the viewpoints, I was relaxed.
It really makes you feel nervous when an experienced person asks you something. Even in my school days, I used to get nervous when I was asked questions, though I might know the answer...
Apology if my words were rude anywhere. Didn't intend to.
I am highly obliged, sir. That is indeed a great compliment. I just come to gain knowledge and try to help out or suggest if something I can do.
Thank you, sir, for sharing the views, and yes, I do agree.
Though I mentioned about unionization in mostly manufacturing firms and for laborers, the most important point I missed out (when specified to the IT sector) was the high attrition rate.
If we compare the attrition rates, sector-wise, IT has the highest rate.
And even if we look at the healthy attrition rate, (based on the information shared with me during the internship) IT has a higher acceptable attrition rate than others.
IT is a very volatile sector. People do not even stick around for around 2 years. Technology changes, requirements, and expectations change considerably faster in this sector than any other.
This makes it a little difficult to even think about getting a union for the IT sector.
Thanks a lot for the insight, sir.
From India, Mumbai
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To your query as to why the specific query was posed to you, I have not tossed any query to you in this regard but only awaiting to hear your reply to the query asked by a senior member. Nevertheless, I would like to express my view on this question since you have posed it to me. When a senior member posed a query to a young budding professional like you and wants to hear her on the issue, it will be a huge compliment to her knowledge and shall be inspiring.
Trust me, Sir, I was not offended by asking that question to me, but actually wondered why.
More so because I am just a new person and do not have much experience in the industry.
I do try and answer queries as per my knowledge and experience but have my own limitations.
When the question was directed to me, I thought I am to answer it. It really made me feel, "How would I answer the query because I do not think I have sufficient knowledge?" and hence just wished to know why was I asked.
Though it was cleared by both you and Umakanthan sir that it was just to know the viewpoints, I was relaxed.
It really makes you feel nervous when an experienced person asks you something. Even in my school days, I used to get nervous when I was asked questions, though I might know the answer...
Apology if my words were rude anywhere. Didn't intend to.
I am highly obliged, sir. That is indeed a great compliment. I just come to gain knowledge and try to help out or suggest if something I can do.
Thank you, sir, for sharing the views, and yes, I do agree.
Though I mentioned about unionization in mostly manufacturing firms and for laborers, the most important point I missed out (when specified to the IT sector) was the high attrition rate.
If we compare the attrition rates, sector-wise, IT has the highest rate.
And even if we look at the healthy attrition rate, (based on the information shared with me during the internship) IT has a higher acceptable attrition rate than others.
IT is a very volatile sector. People do not even stick around for around 2 years. Technology changes, requirements, and expectations change considerably faster in this sector than any other.
This makes it a little difficult to even think about getting a union for the IT sector.
Thanks a lot for the insight, sir.
From India, Mumbai
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In such circumstances, it is better to approach the Inspector of Factories and write a letter to the District Collector. A copy should be sent to the employer. The district collector or Inspector of Factories will ask the employer about the reasons for not allowing the employees to duties. The employer has to provide reasons to them. If the problem is not resolved, it is advisable to seek legal assistance.
L.S. RAO
From India, Vijayawada
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L.S. RAO
From India, Vijayawada
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Dear Seniors,
Thank you for your suggestions and guidance. I would like to inform you that in her last appraisal, she received a 30% salary hike. For the past 2.5 years, she has been the sole HR personnel in the company. Last year, she recruited an HR Manager as the company is expanding, and she also needed guidance from another professional. However, the HR Manager's salary was lower than hers.
I am sharing this information because she is a high performer. Unfortunately, there have been political games played against her, and the work she diligently performed was misrepresented by her Manager under his name. There have been attempts to portray her as an underperformer. When my friend attempted to clarify the situation to the management, they were unwilling to listen.
I even suggested to her to consider resigning and seek better opportunities elsewhere, as she is the primary breadwinner in her family.
Regards,
Priyanka
From India, Delhi
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Thank you for your suggestions and guidance. I would like to inform you that in her last appraisal, she received a 30% salary hike. For the past 2.5 years, she has been the sole HR personnel in the company. Last year, she recruited an HR Manager as the company is expanding, and she also needed guidance from another professional. However, the HR Manager's salary was lower than hers.
I am sharing this information because she is a high performer. Unfortunately, there have been political games played against her, and the work she diligently performed was misrepresented by her Manager under his name. There have been attempts to portray her as an underperformer. When my friend attempted to clarify the situation to the management, they were unwilling to listen.
I even suggested to her to consider resigning and seek better opportunities elsewhere, as she is the primary breadwinner in her family.
Regards,
Priyanka
From India, Delhi
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Friends, I need one more suggestion from your side. As you are aware, we generally ask the question, "Why have you resigned from your current position without having a job in hand?" What would you advise? Should she tell the truth or something else?
Regards, Priyanka
From India, Delhi
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Regards, Priyanka
From India, Delhi
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