Yes Ravi,
Thats because I have working experience in HR :-D:-D :-D
(You asked for this)
I would have appreciated if you read anything below those lines... will not blame you. As I mentioned - experience ^ in HR alone will teach you.
From India, Madras
54Thats because I have working experience in HR :-D:-D :-D
(You asked for this)
I would have appreciated if you read anything below those lines... will not blame you. As I mentioned - experience ^ in HR alone will teach you.
From India, Madras
This is right approach, for any serious misconduct keeping under suspenstion is correct under varouis reasons so that deliquent employee will not tamper or influence evidence.Ensure that we should follow company SO correctley.
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Dear The power of Suspension is reserved to the Management pending enquiry on grave charges. Rgds VS Rajan Associates Chennai Mob:98401-42164
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Dear Friends,
I have read some of the detailed responses of fellow HR practitioners. I have the following advice to offer.
- Charge Sheet or Suspension is NOT an HR practice. There is nothing right or wrong about this.
- Managing Discipline or rather Indiscipline is a very important and sensitive function of the HR person in an organization. Ignoring indiscipline generally piles up into a messy affair which takes a lot of effort and time to sort out, at a later stage.
- Indiscipline must be addressed with clinical promptness and precision. There is no tailor-made solution how to handle indiscipline. Solutions are situation based and need to be so addressed.
- In this case an employee with a very long association and clean service record, is found to have not followed the proper system of following up with some clients resulting in an outstanding of Rs.40 lacs approx.
- The management has suspended him. Now as Ranjeet has stated, he has been suspended for 7 days whereas the Standing Orders of the Co. provide for suspension of only 6 days.
- I will safely suppose that the 6 day suspension stipulated in the Standing Orders is “Punishment” and not suspension pending enquiry.
- There is a suggestion that the Charge Sheet should have been issued after Enquiry. If it is Domestic Enquiry that is being referred to, the suggestion is incorrect.
- I will outline the process which needs to be followed if Disciplinary action is contemplated against an employee.
- At the very outset let me explain that the management is at liberty to suspend, Charge Sheet or take any action it deems proper in a given situation. What matters is whether the action so taken is correct under provisions of law or not. Can you commit a murder. Yes you can, but then you got to face the consequences.
- The correct process would be as under:
- An employee commits an act of misconduct.
- The management finds the act committed by him serious enough to immediately suspend him. This should be suspension pending enquiry into the matter.
- At a later stage, after having examined the facts of the matter, the management may issue a detailed Charge Sheet.
- It is important to impress here that the wording of the letter of suspension and later the Charge Sheet is critical and one should be careful about wording the two instruments of communication, since the entire proceedings will happen within the confines of these two letters. Legal advice may be sought before issuing this letter to an employee.
- Suspension automatically implies payment of subsistence allowance…50% of the wages for this first 90 days and 75% after that till the completion of the Enquiry.
- After the employee submits his written explanation to the Charge Sheet received by him, the management in the interest of fairplay and to grant the suspended employee fair and full opportunity to defend himself, may institute a Domestic Enquiry into the Charges leveled against the concerned employee.
- For this the management will have to appoint an Enquiry Officer to conduct the DO(Domestic Enquiry) This process also follows a certain procedure which should be correct.
- During the Enquiry the employee will be allowed to seek assistance of a co-employee or even an outsider (generally it a Union representative) to act as his counsel to represent him in the Enquiry proceedings.
- After the enquiry is over the management will decide the kind of punishment it plans to inflict upon the employee for which proper written communication to the employee is necessary.
Correctness of the action taken, carefully considering the nature of misconduct and the punishment given, will determine the future course of action should the employee decide to challenge the decision of the management in a court of law.
Someone has said that in while addressing cases of indiscipline one should use
one’s head and not the heart. I fully agree with this line of thought.
Managing indiscipline is very vast subject and there a lot of fine points that are involved depending upon situations. It will be difficult to list all of these in one go.
I hope the above narration and explanation of handling indiscipline gives you a good insight into certain important realities.
In case you have any specific clarification, please feel free to contact me anytime.
Best Wishes,
Vasant Nair
09717726667
Email:
s
From India, Mumbai
Dear Friends,
I have read some of the detailed responses of fellow HR practitioners. I have the following advice to offer.
1. Charge Sheet or Suspension is NOT an HR practice. There is nothing right or wrong about this.
2. Managing Discipline or rather Indiscipline is a very important and sensitive function of the HR person in an organization. Ignoring indiscipline generally piles up into a messy affair which takes a lot of effort and time to sort out, at a later stage.
3. Indiscipline must be addressed with clinical promptness and precision. There is no tailor-made solution how to handle indiscipline. Solutions are situation based and need to be so addressed.
4. In this case an employee with a very long association and clean service record, is found to have not followed the proper system of following up with some clients resulting in an outstanding of Rs.40 lacs approx.
5. The management has suspended him. Now as Ranjeet has stated, he has been suspended for 7 days whereas the Standing Orders of the Co. provide for suspension of only 6 days.
6. I will safely suppose that the 6 day suspension stipulated in the Standing Orders is “Punishment” and not suspension pending enquiry.
7. There is a suggestion that the Charge Sheet should have been issued after Enquiry. If it is Domestic Enquiry that is being referred to, the suggestion is incorrect.
8. I will outline the process which needs to be followed if Disciplinary action is contemplated against an employee.
9. At the very outset let me explain that the management is at liberty to suspend, Charge Sheet or take any action it deems proper in a given situation. What matters is whether the action so taken is correct under provisions of law or not. Can you commit a murder. Yes you can, but then you got to face the consequences.
10. The correct process would be as under:
a. An employee commits an act of misconduct.
b. The management finds the act committed by him serious enough to immediately suspend him. This should be suspension pending enquiry into the matter.
c. At a later stage, after having examined the facts of the matter, the management may issue a detailed Charge Sheet.
d. It is important to impress here that the wording of the letter of suspension and later the Charge Sheet is critical and one should be careful about wording the two instruments of communication, since the entire proceedings will happen within the confines of these two letters. Legal advice may be sought before issuing this letter to an employee.
e. Suspension automatically implies payment of subsistence allowance…50% of the wages for this first 90 days and 75% after that till the completion of the Enquiry.
f. After the employee submits his written explanation to the Charge Sheet received by him, the management in the interest of fairplay and to grant the suspended employee fair and full opportunity to defend himself, may institute a Domestic Enquiry into the Charges leveled against the concerned employee.
g. For this the management will have to appoint an Enquiry Officer to conduct the DO(Domestic Enquiry) This process also follows a certain procedure which should be correct.
h. During the Enquiry the employee will be allowed to seek assistance of a co-employee or even an outsider (generally it a Union representative) to act as his counsel to represent him in the Enquiry proceedings.
i. After the enquiry is over the management will decide the kind of punishment it plans to inflict upon the employee for which proper written communication to the employee is necessary.
Correctness of the action taken, carefully considering the nature of misconduct and the punishment given, will determine the future course of action should the employee decide to challenge the decision of the management in a court of law.
Someone has said that in while addressing cases of indiscipline one should use
one’s head and not the heart. I fully agree with this line of thought.
Managing indiscipline is very vast subject and there a lot of fine points that are involved depending upon situations. It will be difficult to list all of these in one go.
I hope the above narration and explanation of handling indiscipline gives you a good insight into certain important realities.
In case you have any specific clarification, please feel free to contact me anytime.
Best Wishes,
Vasant Nair
09717726667
Email:
s
From India, Mumbai
I have read some of the detailed responses of fellow HR practitioners. I have the following advice to offer.
1. Charge Sheet or Suspension is NOT an HR practice. There is nothing right or wrong about this.
2. Managing Discipline or rather Indiscipline is a very important and sensitive function of the HR person in an organization. Ignoring indiscipline generally piles up into a messy affair which takes a lot of effort and time to sort out, at a later stage.
3. Indiscipline must be addressed with clinical promptness and precision. There is no tailor-made solution how to handle indiscipline. Solutions are situation based and need to be so addressed.
4. In this case an employee with a very long association and clean service record, is found to have not followed the proper system of following up with some clients resulting in an outstanding of Rs.40 lacs approx.
5. The management has suspended him. Now as Ranjeet has stated, he has been suspended for 7 days whereas the Standing Orders of the Co. provide for suspension of only 6 days.
6. I will safely suppose that the 6 day suspension stipulated in the Standing Orders is “Punishment” and not suspension pending enquiry.
7. There is a suggestion that the Charge Sheet should have been issued after Enquiry. If it is Domestic Enquiry that is being referred to, the suggestion is incorrect.
8. I will outline the process which needs to be followed if Disciplinary action is contemplated against an employee.
9. At the very outset let me explain that the management is at liberty to suspend, Charge Sheet or take any action it deems proper in a given situation. What matters is whether the action so taken is correct under provisions of law or not. Can you commit a murder. Yes you can, but then you got to face the consequences.
10. The correct process would be as under:
a. An employee commits an act of misconduct.
b. The management finds the act committed by him serious enough to immediately suspend him. This should be suspension pending enquiry into the matter.
c. At a later stage, after having examined the facts of the matter, the management may issue a detailed Charge Sheet.
d. It is important to impress here that the wording of the letter of suspension and later the Charge Sheet is critical and one should be careful about wording the two instruments of communication, since the entire proceedings will happen within the confines of these two letters. Legal advice may be sought before issuing this letter to an employee.
e. Suspension automatically implies payment of subsistence allowance…50% of the wages for this first 90 days and 75% after that till the completion of the Enquiry.
f. After the employee submits his written explanation to the Charge Sheet received by him, the management in the interest of fairplay and to grant the suspended employee fair and full opportunity to defend himself, may institute a Domestic Enquiry into the Charges leveled against the concerned employee.
g. For this the management will have to appoint an Enquiry Officer to conduct the DO(Domestic Enquiry) This process also follows a certain procedure which should be correct.
h. During the Enquiry the employee will be allowed to seek assistance of a co-employee or even an outsider (generally it a Union representative) to act as his counsel to represent him in the Enquiry proceedings.
i. After the enquiry is over the management will decide the kind of punishment it plans to inflict upon the employee for which proper written communication to the employee is necessary.
Correctness of the action taken, carefully considering the nature of misconduct and the punishment given, will determine the future course of action should the employee decide to challenge the decision of the management in a court of law.
Someone has said that in while addressing cases of indiscipline one should use
one’s head and not the heart. I fully agree with this line of thought.
Managing indiscipline is very vast subject and there a lot of fine points that are involved depending upon situations. It will be difficult to list all of these in one go.
I hope the above narration and explanation of handling indiscipline gives you a good insight into certain important realities.
In case you have any specific clarification, please feel free to contact me anytime.
Best Wishes,
Vasant Nair
09717726667
Email:
s
From India, Mumbai
Dear Jeeni
I see varied views on the issues and i thought I will add to it:
1. At the outset the an employee can be suspended pernding enquiry on serious charges. At times , due to gravity of the situation, an employee maybe suspended pending enquiry and a charge sheet can be issued in due course. As per law in general if the standing orders apply ( if the person is considered as a workmen ) ,then susbsistence allowance is payable.
2. The concept of penal disciplen is generally used in case of workmen and in case of executives ,today such actions are not resorted. Instead , counselling is used and where it fails repeatedly then one needs to look at other options for a separation. Unless there is a deliberate malafide intent and or an issue of integrity ,it is bet to have a mutually pful separation.
3The decision on separation must be carefully taken . Unless there serious issus, penal action against an emplyee with 25 years of blemishless service will demoralise others.
4.In the case cited by you, if a management has doen what you have said then there will be no "fairl play and equity". Every person must be heard before being condemned and if a managemnt does not do so and takes unilateral action ,it will be killing enthisiasm and will nstill "fear psychosis" amongst employees. In todays context of focussing on enhancing employees engagement, such action of management will produce an advserse effect.
5. Many at times thses days, Management's use the termination clause in the appaointment letter to terminate. Such actions can be questionsed in court if the person so sent out seeks protection under the ID act. It will be the onus n th management then to prove that the person is not a workman.
6.One more important pointI would like you to note is that -HRManagers's many attimes have to dance to the dictates of the higher ups. Many at tmes they are helpless and are forced to carry out the instructins. In the instant case,if the GM is a dictator ,there is nothing that the HR Manager can do..or else he or she should be ready to quit.
7.A suggestion on what an executive can do. The Executive can make a representation to the GM outlining what had happneded. such letters can be marked to the superior of the GM as well. Of course ,a better option would be to approach the supervisor and through him or her seek to clarify and resolve the issue. In case as this , a supervisor will also be accountable and it will be unfair to shhoot the person below as a cause for failure.
8.One more aspect that needs to be seen is as to wheither th work assigned is a part of the normal job of he executive ? Is the person brifed about the task clearly? isd the executive make efforts? If so what was made ? Wasthe employee provided adequate resources to do the task?Were there any extraneous factor that effected the transaction? We need answers to all thses questions before coming to a conclusion as to who was responsible for the situation.
My answers to your points are as under pointwise:
1-Suspension without subsitence allowance is justifiable by law or not.>>If the person is covered under ID act or standing orders, it will be bad in law. It is not the "Designation" but the job done will be basis of judgement. IA subsistence allowanc e is payable ( pl refer Id act or standing orders).Even for an exective ,the employer will stand high ,if a subsistence allowanc is paid.
2- Suspension only is 1 misconduct is justifiable with law and principle of natural justice.>>"Suspension pending enquiry " is not a punishment as per law. "Suspension" as a punishment can be imposed based on the gravity of charges proved in a domestic enquiry. If the principles of natural justice is not followed, the punishment is bad in law and will be struck down by a court.
3- Suspending an employee without any formal enquiry is justifiable.> Not justifiable. ven if an employee accepts , it has been opined to have an enquiry and then effect the punishment to avoid any charges that the admission letter was extracted.
4- To chargesheet an employee directly asking for explanation even you are not going to conduct domestic enquiry is justifiable.> It is fair to ask for an explanation from an emplyee by giving ta notice of charges levelled with the details of acts of commission and ommission ,giving 48 hours or 72 hours time.
5-It is not a part of misaapropriate use of fund, it is just that bills of worth 40 lakhs was not forwarded to concern ministry on time. Discipline includes a lot of things.
> we need to investigate the matter as outlined above by me.
Do you think that it is a good human resource practice where your employee thinks that their jobs are insecure.
Whether we should take steps with iron hand where people will work till the time bosses were there. >> No that will not yield results. Please give feedback to the management through your Boss. May be you may not be aware about some facts that were not told. A healthy communication is required if there has been some reason.
Whether we should encourage such culture where people are working with a feeling of insecurity and in a tense sitution.
>Of couse not...such culture will drive away Talent and it will lead to slavery.
When we say Human Resouces, we are here to take care of our employees and to driven a good culture in the organisation.
HR is a tool many at times used to shoot . A good HR Manager will try to avoid such situation by educating the managemnt. If the HR Manager is under directions and ha to execute without option,what can he do???/He can't jump an dkeep jumping. It is diffiecut to infer about HR or a Managerunless we know the full situation. Truth many at times i s elsewhere.
I had gone through a book of Mr.Khera "You Can Win", where he has Fear Motivation are only temporary. It work till the time the fear factor or boss was there.
>Very true...
I personally beleive in the culture in an organisation where employees look forward to come on the job.
>Yes we need to creat such a situation .....enabling climate. Look for specifics to be done.
Please answer my queries, 2 suspension in a week are we going in a right direction.
> Need to look into the facts ...pl ask your manager. If this is a culture..find another place to work....
throwing out an employee or takin their resignation is right or wrong-May be it is a good plicy to reduce your heads in this period of recession.
> Need to understand the full facts and the situation before we can come to a conclusion. If the ship is sinking them, we need to see how we can turnaround.
What you will day to the GM where he scolds everybdy for small things like phone was disconnected due to technical reason in between.
> If the top man behaves like that, there is nothing much you can do it. It is upt the managet to see wha they want to perpetuate. I am sure the noice will reach the Management sometime and they will take corrective action.
May be i think he does not know what is the menaing of HR. Our first value of the company is integrity, respect ...... Where is the respect for the other, where is that joy at workplace.
>>many at times whay you stated are given as lip service. That is why employee enagagement varies and it depends upon what is actually present. HR Department coming with statementwithout the commistment of the top will be of no use. The Management Team as a whole needs to articulateand take actions or else such statements and will hang on the walls ....like picture..
Again my question is it not necessary to issues warning letters in minor misconducts like absencebefore issuing chargesheet or suspending them directly is right?
> Ideally yes. But at times based on gravity ,if need to higher punishment can be given
From India, Madras
I see varied views on the issues and i thought I will add to it:
1. At the outset the an employee can be suspended pernding enquiry on serious charges. At times , due to gravity of the situation, an employee maybe suspended pending enquiry and a charge sheet can be issued in due course. As per law in general if the standing orders apply ( if the person is considered as a workmen ) ,then susbsistence allowance is payable.
2. The concept of penal disciplen is generally used in case of workmen and in case of executives ,today such actions are not resorted. Instead , counselling is used and where it fails repeatedly then one needs to look at other options for a separation. Unless there is a deliberate malafide intent and or an issue of integrity ,it is bet to have a mutually pful separation.
3The decision on separation must be carefully taken . Unless there serious issus, penal action against an emplyee with 25 years of blemishless service will demoralise others.
4.In the case cited by you, if a management has doen what you have said then there will be no "fairl play and equity". Every person must be heard before being condemned and if a managemnt does not do so and takes unilateral action ,it will be killing enthisiasm and will nstill "fear psychosis" amongst employees. In todays context of focussing on enhancing employees engagement, such action of management will produce an advserse effect.
5. Many at times thses days, Management's use the termination clause in the appaointment letter to terminate. Such actions can be questionsed in court if the person so sent out seeks protection under the ID act. It will be the onus n th management then to prove that the person is not a workman.
6.One more important pointI would like you to note is that -HRManagers's many attimes have to dance to the dictates of the higher ups. Many at tmes they are helpless and are forced to carry out the instructins. In the instant case,if the GM is a dictator ,there is nothing that the HR Manager can do..or else he or she should be ready to quit.
7.A suggestion on what an executive can do. The Executive can make a representation to the GM outlining what had happneded. such letters can be marked to the superior of the GM as well. Of course ,a better option would be to approach the supervisor and through him or her seek to clarify and resolve the issue. In case as this , a supervisor will also be accountable and it will be unfair to shhoot the person below as a cause for failure.
8.One more aspect that needs to be seen is as to wheither th work assigned is a part of the normal job of he executive ? Is the person brifed about the task clearly? isd the executive make efforts? If so what was made ? Wasthe employee provided adequate resources to do the task?Were there any extraneous factor that effected the transaction? We need answers to all thses questions before coming to a conclusion as to who was responsible for the situation.
My answers to your points are as under pointwise:
1-Suspension without subsitence allowance is justifiable by law or not.>>If the person is covered under ID act or standing orders, it will be bad in law. It is not the "Designation" but the job done will be basis of judgement. IA subsistence allowanc e is payable ( pl refer Id act or standing orders).Even for an exective ,the employer will stand high ,if a subsistence allowanc is paid.
2- Suspension only is 1 misconduct is justifiable with law and principle of natural justice.>>"Suspension pending enquiry " is not a punishment as per law. "Suspension" as a punishment can be imposed based on the gravity of charges proved in a domestic enquiry. If the principles of natural justice is not followed, the punishment is bad in law and will be struck down by a court.
3- Suspending an employee without any formal enquiry is justifiable.> Not justifiable. ven if an employee accepts , it has been opined to have an enquiry and then effect the punishment to avoid any charges that the admission letter was extracted.
4- To chargesheet an employee directly asking for explanation even you are not going to conduct domestic enquiry is justifiable.> It is fair to ask for an explanation from an emplyee by giving ta notice of charges levelled with the details of acts of commission and ommission ,giving 48 hours or 72 hours time.
5-It is not a part of misaapropriate use of fund, it is just that bills of worth 40 lakhs was not forwarded to concern ministry on time. Discipline includes a lot of things.
> we need to investigate the matter as outlined above by me.
Do you think that it is a good human resource practice where your employee thinks that their jobs are insecure.
Whether we should take steps with iron hand where people will work till the time bosses were there. >> No that will not yield results. Please give feedback to the management through your Boss. May be you may not be aware about some facts that were not told. A healthy communication is required if there has been some reason.
Whether we should encourage such culture where people are working with a feeling of insecurity and in a tense sitution.
>Of couse not...such culture will drive away Talent and it will lead to slavery.
When we say Human Resouces, we are here to take care of our employees and to driven a good culture in the organisation.
HR is a tool many at times used to shoot . A good HR Manager will try to avoid such situation by educating the managemnt. If the HR Manager is under directions and ha to execute without option,what can he do???/He can't jump an dkeep jumping. It is diffiecut to infer about HR or a Managerunless we know the full situation. Truth many at times i s elsewhere.
I had gone through a book of Mr.Khera "You Can Win", where he has Fear Motivation are only temporary. It work till the time the fear factor or boss was there.
>Very true...
I personally beleive in the culture in an organisation where employees look forward to come on the job.
>Yes we need to creat such a situation .....enabling climate. Look for specifics to be done.
Please answer my queries, 2 suspension in a week are we going in a right direction.
> Need to look into the facts ...pl ask your manager. If this is a culture..find another place to work....
throwing out an employee or takin their resignation is right or wrong-May be it is a good plicy to reduce your heads in this period of recession.
> Need to understand the full facts and the situation before we can come to a conclusion. If the ship is sinking them, we need to see how we can turnaround.
What you will day to the GM where he scolds everybdy for small things like phone was disconnected due to technical reason in between.
> If the top man behaves like that, there is nothing much you can do it. It is upt the managet to see wha they want to perpetuate. I am sure the noice will reach the Management sometime and they will take corrective action.
May be i think he does not know what is the menaing of HR. Our first value of the company is integrity, respect ...... Where is the respect for the other, where is that joy at workplace.
>>many at times whay you stated are given as lip service. That is why employee enagagement varies and it depends upon what is actually present. HR Department coming with statementwithout the commistment of the top will be of no use. The Management Team as a whole needs to articulateand take actions or else such statements and will hang on the walls ....like picture..
Again my question is it not necessary to issues warning letters in minor misconducts like absencebefore issuing chargesheet or suspending them directly is right?
> Ideally yes. But at times based on gravity ,if need to higher punishment can be given
From India, Madras
Hi,
Disciplinary action under the tenets of model standing order is perfectly alright.In the model standing orders there is provision for suspension pending enquiry. Good Human resource pratice includes initiating discipiinary action against erring staff . The role of HR dept cannot always remain goody and should be in the direction of healthy practices.
shibu krishnan
From India, Pune
Disciplinary action under the tenets of model standing order is perfectly alright.In the model standing orders there is provision for suspension pending enquiry. Good Human resource pratice includes initiating discipiinary action against erring staff . The role of HR dept cannot always remain goody and should be in the direction of healthy practices.
shibu krishnan
From India, Pune
The advice given by Mr Vasant Nair is absolutely correct. Thanks for sharing the rights steps to be taken in the conduct of domestic enquiry.
I am sure no one will have doubts now about the procedure.
KCS Kutty
From India, Madras
I am sure no one will have doubts now about the procedure.
KCS Kutty
From India, Madras
Dear Friends,
I think Mr. Sarfaraz had hit the nail on the head.
A junior employee being HELD RESPONSIBLE for non-recovery of Rs. 40 lakhs (that too from a Ministry)
The question that arises are :
1. Is the "Ministry" running away with Rs. 40 lakhs ?? Anything due with the Govt. of India, can always be recovered.
2. Were the seniors sleeping for so many years, and then they suddenly woke up ?
3. Why should not the seniors be charge-sheeted ?? If they say, they were NOT aware, then this is also a big error on their part.
4. The truth, in my humble opinion, is that this poor chap had been reminding his bosses time and again regarding the Rs. 40 lakhs.
But since, the company wanted some favours from the Ministry, they were not pressing hard for the amount.
In turn they must be telling the person verbally (as it happens normally), to keep things in abeyance for some time.
Such verbal orders must have continued time and again.
Also, it is not possible for a junior employee to recover Rs. 40 lakhs from the Ministry on his own. He must be going to his bosses, who must be ordering him to keep quiet for some time.
I wonder how our dear HR professionals are baying for the blood of the poor employee in the name of "DISCIPLINE".
Give a dog a bad name, and then shoot him.
HR professional should develop the ability to -
Unfortunately, they only believe in :
Link for what ?
A postman's job of passing repugnant orders from top-to-bottom ??
Correct. One should take only the employer's side; after all its a question of one's bread-and-butter which is provided by the employer (and not by the employees).
Looked at this way, there is no difference between the HR's involvement and Auditors involvement in the Satyam scam - both acted on behalf and in collusion with the erstwhile management.
I agree that we are all responsible to our own families; but then we should also draw up a limit to the extent to which one can bend.
Else, why call oneself an HR professional (without perhaps having the requisite degrees/diplomas); better to go back to the business of sugar cane juice vending (as our member AnonymousA has implied in a thread).
Dear Ranjeet
I compliment you on putting up this thread, and I appreciate your personal values and professional ethics in thinking that suspension is unfair, and that something is not correct with this whole episode.
We need more upright, sensitive and brave HR professionals like you.
I agree with your satement "When we say Human Resouces, we are here to take care of our employees and to driven a good culture in the organisation."
and, I understand you when you say, "In my previous post also i had writeen that my HR Manager knows only to manage by hook or by crook. She just know what happens in one company itself as she is baby of this comapny."
I think HR these days have found a "new niche" in the scheme of things.
Unfortunately, I see that the day is not far off; when HR professionals will be handing summary Dismissal order; in case there is a loss in the company; to several office-boys ; the reason being - their indiscipline; in not providing good quality tea at the right time to senior officials, causing a drop in their efficiency and thereby causing a loss to the company !!!
Please do not laugh, when one can hold a petty employee responsible for Rs. 40 lakhs; why not office-boys for loss worth crores ??
After all, isn't whatever the BOSS says is correct ??
Regards.
From India, Delhi
I think Mr. Sarfaraz had hit the nail on the head.
A junior employee being HELD RESPONSIBLE for non-recovery of Rs. 40 lakhs (that too from a Ministry)
The question that arises are :
1. Is the "Ministry" running away with Rs. 40 lakhs ?? Anything due with the Govt. of India, can always be recovered.
2. Were the seniors sleeping for so many years, and then they suddenly woke up ?
3. Why should not the seniors be charge-sheeted ?? If they say, they were NOT aware, then this is also a big error on their part.
4. The truth, in my humble opinion, is that this poor chap had been reminding his bosses time and again regarding the Rs. 40 lakhs.
But since, the company wanted some favours from the Ministry, they were not pressing hard for the amount.
In turn they must be telling the person verbally (as it happens normally), to keep things in abeyance for some time.
Such verbal orders must have continued time and again.
Also, it is not possible for a junior employee to recover Rs. 40 lakhs from the Ministry on his own. He must be going to his bosses, who must be ordering him to keep quiet for some time.
I wonder how our dear HR professionals are baying for the blood of the poor employee in the name of "DISCIPLINE".
Give a dog a bad name, and then shoot him.
HR professional should develop the ability to -
- read between the lines
- be analytical in their approach and not to accept 'facts' as they are presented
- play a non-partisan strategic role for the betterment of the organization
Unfortunately, they only believe in :
- "HR" is a link between the Management and the Employee."
Link for what ?
A postman's job of passing repugnant orders from top-to-bottom ??
- "Nowhere its a theory that the HR must only consider the employee side of view."
Correct. One should take only the employer's side; after all its a question of one's bread-and-butter which is provided by the employer (and not by the employees).
Looked at this way, there is no difference between the HR's involvement and Auditors involvement in the Satyam scam - both acted on behalf and in collusion with the erstwhile management.
I agree that we are all responsible to our own families; but then we should also draw up a limit to the extent to which one can bend.
Else, why call oneself an HR professional (without perhaps having the requisite degrees/diplomas); better to go back to the business of sugar cane juice vending (as our member AnonymousA has implied in a thread).
Dear Ranjeet
I compliment you on putting up this thread, and I appreciate your personal values and professional ethics in thinking that suspension is unfair, and that something is not correct with this whole episode.
We need more upright, sensitive and brave HR professionals like you.
I agree with your satement "When we say Human Resouces, we are here to take care of our employees and to driven a good culture in the organisation."
and, I understand you when you say, "In my previous post also i had writeen that my HR Manager knows only to manage by hook or by crook. She just know what happens in one company itself as she is baby of this comapny."
I think HR these days have found a "new niche" in the scheme of things.
Unfortunately, I see that the day is not far off; when HR professionals will be handing summary Dismissal order; in case there is a loss in the company; to several office-boys ; the reason being - their indiscipline; in not providing good quality tea at the right time to senior officials, causing a drop in their efficiency and thereby causing a loss to the company !!!
Please do not laugh, when one can hold a petty employee responsible for Rs. 40 lakhs; why not office-boys for loss worth crores ??
After all, isn't whatever the BOSS says is correct ??
Regards.
From India, Delhi
Dear Friends,
I endorse Mr KCS Kutty's view about the inputs from Mr. vasant Nair.
Mr. Nair has given a very precise and legally correct brief on disciplinary proceedings.
Another point I wish to reiterate is : Issuing chargesheet is not the end, but the beginning of disciplinary proceedings.
Subsequently a Departmental Enquiry needs to be constituted, an Enquiry Officer nominated; who 'appoints' a Prosecution Nominee and similarily allows the Charge-Sheeted Employee (CSE) to choose a Co-worker to assist him in his defence. The proceedings are quasi-judicial in nature, thereby meaning that all the principles of natural justice are followed.
However, in these days of profiteering; no company has the time or sensitivity to follow legally laid out rules. They have the power and money to bribe one and all. So principles are flouted with impunity.
It is for the HR professionals to create a strategic role for HR in an organization; as well as champion the cause of fair-play; corporate ethics and principles of natural justice in an organization.
Also, they must be made aware of the role and rights of whistle-blower in an organization, and that it is alright to speak against the management in case principles of ethics are being compromised (and not just being an "agent" or a "yes-man" of the employer).
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
I endorse Mr KCS Kutty's view about the inputs from Mr. vasant Nair.
Mr. Nair has given a very precise and legally correct brief on disciplinary proceedings.
Another point I wish to reiterate is : Issuing chargesheet is not the end, but the beginning of disciplinary proceedings.
Subsequently a Departmental Enquiry needs to be constituted, an Enquiry Officer nominated; who 'appoints' a Prosecution Nominee and similarily allows the Charge-Sheeted Employee (CSE) to choose a Co-worker to assist him in his defence. The proceedings are quasi-judicial in nature, thereby meaning that all the principles of natural justice are followed.
However, in these days of profiteering; no company has the time or sensitivity to follow legally laid out rules. They have the power and money to bribe one and all. So principles are flouted with impunity.
It is for the HR professionals to create a strategic role for HR in an organization; as well as champion the cause of fair-play; corporate ethics and principles of natural justice in an organization.
Also, they must be made aware of the role and rights of whistle-blower in an organization, and that it is alright to speak against the management in case principles of ethics are being compromised (and not just being an "agent" or a "yes-man" of the employer).
Warm regards.
From India, Delhi
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