Dear Mahajan,
Thank you very much for answering my questions. As I thought, you are the owner Director of your firm. You also seem to have realised your mistakes.
I think the main mistake lies in the change of policy on holidays. "We started with offering 24 to 36 holidays a year 6 years back but now have come down to about 8 National Holidays + 5 Holidays a year extra in case employees have a grave emergency, which is again another loophole."
Please go to http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/d/m...le-version.pdf and study the document carefully. Id does not matter if the firm is in India or the UK, there are some general principles that a good company should follow. Please tell us why you reduced the number of days of holidays, as you seem to have more than halved the number.
Please put yourself in their position and tell us what you would do in their position.
As experts have opined there is no need to engage a full time HR and you can engage consultants to advise you.
From United Kingdom
1624Thank you very much for answering my questions. As I thought, you are the owner Director of your firm. You also seem to have realised your mistakes.
I think the main mistake lies in the change of policy on holidays. "We started with offering 24 to 36 holidays a year 6 years back but now have come down to about 8 National Holidays + 5 Holidays a year extra in case employees have a grave emergency, which is again another loophole."
Please go to http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/d/m...le-version.pdf and study the document carefully. Id does not matter if the firm is in India or the UK, there are some general principles that a good company should follow. Please tell us why you reduced the number of days of holidays, as you seem to have more than halved the number.
Please put yourself in their position and tell us what you would do in their position.
As experts have opined there is no need to engage a full time HR and you can engage consultants to advise you.
From United Kingdom
I have run small companies and businesses so I understand the problem you are facing.
First, I don't think absence of HR is the real problem. You can easily manage without HR in a company of this size. However if you do have an admin cumHR executive in the company it makes management easier. Taking a HR of 10 years is a bad idea. You won't get one and if you do he will not be able to do much in a small company. Instead find someone who has a couple of years experience so you don't end up having to teach him how a company or business works.
Instead you need to probably hire a HR consultant who can work with you for a few weeks or a month and prepare the policy and processes. Then you and your admin assistants should implement the same.
Please remember that policy and processes are flexible and can be changed. But the change should be for a reason
About holidays : I have other service clients. They give 4 fixed holiday (national holidays) and 4 optional holidays which are to be selected by each employee at the start of the year. However it is essential and required by law to give leave. Check the state rules. In general after one year of working they are entitled to 15 or 21 days of leave that they can use as they need. No leave is allowed for the first year. Employees can take leave without pay with approval of management (you)
For more details you need to speak to a consultant. As it needs much more details and focus than what members of this forum can provide.
From India, Mumbai
First, I don't think absence of HR is the real problem. You can easily manage without HR in a company of this size. However if you do have an admin cumHR executive in the company it makes management easier. Taking a HR of 10 years is a bad idea. You won't get one and if you do he will not be able to do much in a small company. Instead find someone who has a couple of years experience so you don't end up having to teach him how a company or business works.
Instead you need to probably hire a HR consultant who can work with you for a few weeks or a month and prepare the policy and processes. Then you and your admin assistants should implement the same.
Please remember that policy and processes are flexible and can be changed. But the change should be for a reason
About holidays : I have other service clients. They give 4 fixed holiday (national holidays) and 4 optional holidays which are to be selected by each employee at the start of the year. However it is essential and required by law to give leave. Check the state rules. In general after one year of working they are entitled to 15 or 21 days of leave that they can use as they need. No leave is allowed for the first year. Employees can take leave without pay with approval of management (you)
For more details you need to speak to a consultant. As it needs much more details and focus than what members of this forum can provide.
From India, Mumbai
Dear Mahajansahab,
Other learned members have given their suggestions. Few have asked questions on your post. You have replied some and left out few.
Anyway, this post is out of curiosity. Your login ID is "Mahajansahab". Is this made up of two words, i.e. Mahajan + Sahab. This word Sahab (high ranking official or a person in position of authority) has been legacy of British Raj. Is the context same in your case also?
For Mr Saswata Banerjee: - While a company may or may not have HR person, what organisation needs is HR systems and process. We need to HR person so as to have sound HR systems and processes. Many of the organisations ills arise as they do not have HR.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Other learned members have given their suggestions. Few have asked questions on your post. You have replied some and left out few.
Anyway, this post is out of curiosity. Your login ID is "Mahajansahab". Is this made up of two words, i.e. Mahajan + Sahab. This word Sahab (high ranking official or a person in position of authority) has been legacy of British Raj. Is the context same in your case also?
For Mr Saswata Banerjee: - While a company may or may not have HR person, what organisation needs is HR systems and process. We need to HR person so as to have sound HR systems and processes. Many of the organisations ills arise as they do not have HR.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
The company has two branches.
The need for an experienced HR arises since compliances from 2 states have to be done.
The fact that HR is not there would mean lot of ground work would be needed to set upHR system from initial stage itself.
Hiring an HR person/consultancy will help set up all required HR Processes.
Director needs to focus on core areas and allow routine HR processes to be undertaken by employees/consultant.
Many administrative problems-leave,exits,recruitments etc will get sorted at lower level and leaving higher officlals to focus on bottom line.
From India, Pune
The need for an experienced HR arises since compliances from 2 states have to be done.
The fact that HR is not there would mean lot of ground work would be needed to set upHR system from initial stage itself.
Hiring an HR person/consultancy will help set up all required HR Processes.
Director needs to focus on core areas and allow routine HR processes to be undertaken by employees/consultant.
Many administrative problems-leave,exits,recruitments etc will get sorted at lower level and leaving higher officlals to focus on bottom line.
From India, Pune
Hi Mr. Mahajan,
In any asked to leave cases, the company is liable to pay till last working day in the organisation.
If the employee is leaving on Voluntarily then employee is liable to pay back the notice amount as recovery to the company.
From India, Kolkata
In any asked to leave cases, the company is liable to pay till last working day in the organisation.
If the employee is leaving on Voluntarily then employee is liable to pay back the notice amount as recovery to the company.
From India, Kolkata
Hi Mr. Mahajan,
I am interested and can do this for you - if you can pay my professional charges
Major Deepak Mehra.
HR Generalist, Consultant, Trainer and Mentor.
Owner Spice Consultants Delhi
Outside Consultant
30+ Year(s) experience
9810765650
Key Skills: Setting up HR Systems, Procedures and Processes. Training and Induction. Administration and Corporate Affairs
Looking for Consultancy or short / long term assignments.
From India, New Delhi
I am interested and can do this for you - if you can pay my professional charges
Major Deepak Mehra.
HR Generalist, Consultant, Trainer and Mentor.
Owner Spice Consultants Delhi
Outside Consultant
30+ Year(s) experience
9810765650
Key Skills: Setting up HR Systems, Procedures and Processes. Training and Induction. Administration and Corporate Affairs
Looking for Consultancy or short / long term assignments.
From India, New Delhi
Dinesh, I agree.
But for achieving that, it does not need to have a HR who 12 years experience. Such a person will be unable to fit into a position in a small company and will probably give rise to more problems. What you are saying can be achieved by someone with a couple of years of experience, but coupled with proper HR policies and processes implemented. Which is why, I have suggested that he should get a HR consultant to set up the proper processes and policies for him.
From India, Mumbai
But for achieving that, it does not need to have a HR who 12 years experience. Such a person will be unable to fit into a position in a small company and will probably give rise to more problems. What you are saying can be achieved by someone with a couple of years of experience, but coupled with proper HR policies and processes implemented. Which is why, I have suggested that he should get a HR consultant to set up the proper processes and policies for him.
From India, Mumbai
""But for achieving that, it does not need to have a HR who 12 years experience""
Dear Saswata,
We all agree that there is need to put in place proper HR systems to bring on line administraive and HR problems.
Unattended problems will eventually lead to loss of productivity and problems from lack of legal compliances.
Now the director is to decide out source or hire a HR professional.My opinion is a HR person with 10-12 years because setting up is right from foundation upwards.
Freshers may not have the depth of knowledge to set up a system which will cover two states.
Some of the posts in the forum by HR people reveal lack of basic knowledge on issues like PF,ESIC etc.
It is this which makes me say 10-12 years experience for HR person in such situations.
Anyway the director has understood and he will take a careful call.
From India, Pune
Dear Saswata,
We all agree that there is need to put in place proper HR systems to bring on line administraive and HR problems.
Unattended problems will eventually lead to loss of productivity and problems from lack of legal compliances.
Now the director is to decide out source or hire a HR professional.My opinion is a HR person with 10-12 years because setting up is right from foundation upwards.
Freshers may not have the depth of knowledge to set up a system which will cover two states.
Some of the posts in the forum by HR people reveal lack of basic knowledge on issues like PF,ESIC etc.
It is this which makes me say 10-12 years experience for HR person in such situations.
Anyway the director has understood and he will take a careful call.
From India, Pune
Dear Mr. Mahajan,
Greetings!!!!
There has been many replies to your posts but still i am tempted to offer my views.
1. HR has to be there but that doesn't necessarily mean that you need a HR. If you have time and inclination to handle people issues, you can yourself take that role for as long as you can. You will definitely have to learn the basics and behave like a HR manager and not a director , at times.
2. Hiring and firing is not usually allowed nor is it good for most of the companies. Please overhaul your selection process. Spot the problems because of which people resign or you fire and try to select such guys who come without those problem. Psychometric analysis may also help in such a case. You may also conduct activity based interview rather than didactic rounds. Watch your candidates closely and take informed decisions rather than selecting on the basis of gut feeling.
3. Be patient with your employees. Give them time to correct their behavior and for God's sake, don't even think about not paying salaries for the days worked. In the longer run, it will only ruin your company's reputation in job market. Have a well defined probation period, include reasonable Dos and Donts and make your employees follow these.
4. You can do nothing about Holidays. India still has maximum number of working days in comparison to more evolved countries. Hire couple of more guys if you must, to mitigate the effect of holidays. More Holidays = Better work - life balance = Happy Employees = Increased Production = Reduced Attrition = More focus on core business.
Read Henry Ford's story of how he increased the wages and reduced the no. of working hours leading to super duper profit.
5. Start thinking about compliance i.e. PF, ESI etc. You are already 30 employees strong.
From India, Delhi
Greetings!!!!
There has been many replies to your posts but still i am tempted to offer my views.
1. HR has to be there but that doesn't necessarily mean that you need a HR. If you have time and inclination to handle people issues, you can yourself take that role for as long as you can. You will definitely have to learn the basics and behave like a HR manager and not a director , at times.
2. Hiring and firing is not usually allowed nor is it good for most of the companies. Please overhaul your selection process. Spot the problems because of which people resign or you fire and try to select such guys who come without those problem. Psychometric analysis may also help in such a case. You may also conduct activity based interview rather than didactic rounds. Watch your candidates closely and take informed decisions rather than selecting on the basis of gut feeling.
3. Be patient with your employees. Give them time to correct their behavior and for God's sake, don't even think about not paying salaries for the days worked. In the longer run, it will only ruin your company's reputation in job market. Have a well defined probation period, include reasonable Dos and Donts and make your employees follow these.
4. You can do nothing about Holidays. India still has maximum number of working days in comparison to more evolved countries. Hire couple of more guys if you must, to mitigate the effect of holidays. More Holidays = Better work - life balance = Happy Employees = Increased Production = Reduced Attrition = More focus on core business.
Read Henry Ford's story of how he increased the wages and reduced the no. of working hours leading to super duper profit.
5. Start thinking about compliance i.e. PF, ESI etc. You are already 30 employees strong.
From India, Delhi
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