I have gone through the discussions above. As far as legality is concerned, there is no law prevailing in this regard. However, it is a old practice that marking attendance in red is treated as absent. If you are willing to implement this as a part of discipline, you can go with the suggestion of Mr. Subramaniyam to mark them absent if signed in red, but with a proper communication in advance.
Hrishikesh Aponarayan
From India, Pune
Hrishikesh Aponarayan
From India, Pune
True there is no rule or court ruling to define which color should be used to mark the attendance. But in general we use red color to make a remark in the document. So use of red color should be avoided.
Generally late marks, half days etc are marked in red by the authorised person in the attendance register.
regards,
Kamal
From India, Pune
173Generally late marks, half days etc are marked in red by the authorised person in the attendance register.
regards,
Kamal
From India, Pune
there is no legal rule but in indian government offices, legal judiciary the following rule is followed and only certain authorities are allowed to sign in red , green inks, for eg, gazetted officers can only sign in green ink. So at home you can sign in any ink but as mentioned by one member in school application form you have to sign use only blue / black ink.
No there is no legal rule but in manual of office procedure thereis some reference to use of different colour inks by different level of officers. Generally Blue & black is used at lowest level, green in middle level and red at highest level. But point pertinent to mention here is that no matter which colour is used by which level, ever official signs with either blue or green ink preferably. Read the following extract :-
"Every record creating agency, he wrote, in creating records of permanent nature should use fountain pen inks and ball point pen inks of permanent nature prescribed by the Bureau of Indian Standards as is: 221-1962, is: 220-1988, and is 1581-1975 in respect of fountain pen inks of blue/ black colour; and is: 8505-1993 in respect of ball point pen ink. So far as fountain pen ink of permanent nature is concerned, the National Archives declared, the prescribed colour is blue-black, while for ball point pens the colours are blue, black, red or green. Longevity clearly was not a sufficient criterion to clinch the question"
And Para 68, sub-para 5 of the Manual of Office Procedures now reads:
"Initial drafting will be done in black or blue ink. Modifications in the draft at the subsequent levels may be made in green or red ink by the offices so as to distinguish the corrections made."
" Para 32(9) of mannual of office procedure says that only officers of Joint Secretary level and above may use red or green ink, and that too only in rare cases. Para 68(5), on the other hand, does not limit the use of these colours to any particular rank; and it does not say that the corrections and amendments for which the colours are used have to be of an especially rare kind"
BUT NOTHING IS CLEAR AS THIS IS THE WORK OF OUR GREAT BABUS
you can use any color you want, but yes, there are rules like that that can apply and sometimes agents will not take a document signed in red or green if they are wanting you to sign specifically as a "civilian" or "state person" or "driver" or "resident" or what-not. Different color inks can have specific meanings on legal documents.
in Law, red ink in a signature can mean that the author is a living man or woman, signing as a living man or woman. it means possessing blood, basically.
black & blue can mean that it was signed in the capacity as a corporate entity, which does not have the kind of authority and freedom and God-given rights that a living man or woman has. Examples are state statuses and offices such as those in quotes above
so that's part of why they want you to sign in blue or black. it's more evidence of your consent to a less-than-human status that can be controlled much more easily than a human can legally.
not sure what green represents, but according to wikipedia, chiefs of MI6 and Admirals in the Royal Navy use green ink. I'm not finding it now but I've seen some really good legal cites and case law explaining the legal significance of using different color inks.
I always sign in red, indicating that I have no intention of having myself considered less than human, and not possessing my own blood.
Source(s):
Black's Law Dictionary, 4th ed. -- "Monster"
wikipedia -- "green ink"
source:
Is there any legal rule that green and red inks should only be used by higher government authorities? - Yahoo! Answers India
From India, Madras
No there is no legal rule but in manual of office procedure thereis some reference to use of different colour inks by different level of officers. Generally Blue & black is used at lowest level, green in middle level and red at highest level. But point pertinent to mention here is that no matter which colour is used by which level, ever official signs with either blue or green ink preferably. Read the following extract :-
"Every record creating agency, he wrote, in creating records of permanent nature should use fountain pen inks and ball point pen inks of permanent nature prescribed by the Bureau of Indian Standards as is: 221-1962, is: 220-1988, and is 1581-1975 in respect of fountain pen inks of blue/ black colour; and is: 8505-1993 in respect of ball point pen ink. So far as fountain pen ink of permanent nature is concerned, the National Archives declared, the prescribed colour is blue-black, while for ball point pens the colours are blue, black, red or green. Longevity clearly was not a sufficient criterion to clinch the question"
And Para 68, sub-para 5 of the Manual of Office Procedures now reads:
"Initial drafting will be done in black or blue ink. Modifications in the draft at the subsequent levels may be made in green or red ink by the offices so as to distinguish the corrections made."
" Para 32(9) of mannual of office procedure says that only officers of Joint Secretary level and above may use red or green ink, and that too only in rare cases. Para 68(5), on the other hand, does not limit the use of these colours to any particular rank; and it does not say that the corrections and amendments for which the colours are used have to be of an especially rare kind"
BUT NOTHING IS CLEAR AS THIS IS THE WORK OF OUR GREAT BABUS
you can use any color you want, but yes, there are rules like that that can apply and sometimes agents will not take a document signed in red or green if they are wanting you to sign specifically as a "civilian" or "state person" or "driver" or "resident" or what-not. Different color inks can have specific meanings on legal documents.
in Law, red ink in a signature can mean that the author is a living man or woman, signing as a living man or woman. it means possessing blood, basically.
black & blue can mean that it was signed in the capacity as a corporate entity, which does not have the kind of authority and freedom and God-given rights that a living man or woman has. Examples are state statuses and offices such as those in quotes above
so that's part of why they want you to sign in blue or black. it's more evidence of your consent to a less-than-human status that can be controlled much more easily than a human can legally.
not sure what green represents, but according to wikipedia, chiefs of MI6 and Admirals in the Royal Navy use green ink. I'm not finding it now but I've seen some really good legal cites and case law explaining the legal significance of using different color inks.
I always sign in red, indicating that I have no intention of having myself considered less than human, and not possessing my own blood.
Source(s):
Black's Law Dictionary, 4th ed. -- "Monster"
wikipedia -- "green ink"
source:
Is there any legal rule that green and red inks should only be used by higher government authorities? - Yahoo! Answers India
From India, Madras
I appreciate accurate explanations by M.J.SUBRAMANYAM for 'muster roll' as legal document and presented in the labour court and utilised during disciplinary actions as proof for attendance/leaves,etc. & to B.Saikumar.
Its important to understand certain things as working and dealing HR and IR matter or any legal documents
for any organization.
some members replied on my stated equerry 'without understanding query and its seriousness' and my query refers to using Red colour Pen for marking 'in-out time with signature by employees' (Employees in General sense)and not 'by employees falling in certain grade'.
Now,no further comment from half knowledge person.
From India, Ahmadabad
Its important to understand certain things as working and dealing HR and IR matter or any legal documents
for any organization.
some members replied on my stated equerry 'without understanding query and its seriousness' and my query refers to using Red colour Pen for marking 'in-out time with signature by employees' (Employees in General sense)and not 'by employees falling in certain grade'.
Now,no further comment from half knowledge person.
From India, Ahmadabad
Bharadwaj,
You can make it a rule in the office that all employees have to sign with a blue pen (or a black pen) and that marking with a red pen will not be considered or considered as absent. If this is communicated clearly to all employees (get signature on the letter, etc) then it is valid for you to mark such persons as absent. I am not sure how serious this will get if the matter goes to a court, however.
While there is no law that says a specific color needs to be used, the labour laws does give you the right to make reasonable rules of your own governing method of documentation, attendance, etc. I hope that clears the matter.
Having said that, perhaps you need to talk to the persons who are using red and green pen (I assume there are not too many) and find out why they are doing such a thing. Perhaps you can impress on them the problem faced with red ink. Finding a buy-in from the staff is always better than looking like a authoritarian boss forcing rules down someone's throat (however justified it may be)
From India, Mumbai
You can make it a rule in the office that all employees have to sign with a blue pen (or a black pen) and that marking with a red pen will not be considered or considered as absent. If this is communicated clearly to all employees (get signature on the letter, etc) then it is valid for you to mark such persons as absent. I am not sure how serious this will get if the matter goes to a court, however.
While there is no law that says a specific color needs to be used, the labour laws does give you the right to make reasonable rules of your own governing method of documentation, attendance, etc. I hope that clears the matter.
Having said that, perhaps you need to talk to the persons who are using red and green pen (I assume there are not too many) and find out why they are doing such a thing. Perhaps you can impress on them the problem faced with red ink. Finding a buy-in from the staff is always better than looking like a authoritarian boss forcing rules down someone's throat (however justified it may be)
From India, Mumbai
This is true that Red pen utilise for absent and Blue or black pen utilise for present , as guidence by the labour department when i concerned with them..iN Delhi, Kolkata, MUMBAI I have already concerned with labour department regarding this and after that i also applied in my organisation where thet pratices was not follwed.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
can an employee signed on attendance register while he is on out station official visit. Employee is not present phsically at his base location but he is present at another location.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Why are you posting your query as a reply to a thread that is 3 years old ?
Put a new query. Members will answer.
Also use the research button on top to find the answers as others have out similar query in the past.
From India, Mumbai
Put a new query. Members will answer.
Also use the research button on top to find the answers as others have out similar query in the past.
From India, Mumbai
Hi Members,
Please share your insights of how to use Etime to maintain such kind of the attendance record for inspector's reference, For the fact that the manual register might seem to be very cumbersome and tedious, your valued suggestions and ideas are very much appreciated.
Looking forward to hear on this.
Many thanks
Hareesha
From Belgium,
Please share your insights of how to use Etime to maintain such kind of the attendance record for inspector's reference, For the fact that the manual register might seem to be very cumbersome and tedious, your valued suggestions and ideas are very much appreciated.
Looking forward to hear on this.
Many thanks
Hareesha
From Belgium,
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