whether its a religious issue or a personal matter is not the area of discussion here.
What is important is that it is an issue which is causing difficulty to PeacePromoter and its a matter of concern for his professional life
and its good that he has the courage to openly ask it to all.
The only thing we need to do with respect to his question is to give our suggestions to him.
Let him decide which one is best for him.
Moreover his question is pertaining to an "Indian Corporation"; not a corporation driven primarily by another religion....although it appears to be so....or else he would have asked with respect to any organisation in the world!!!
i feel Sajid Muhammed from Kannur has given a very nice answer...Also in my view whether we are from X Religion or Y Religion, we are human beings primarily and just as each individual has different ideas the same way a group of individuals follow different religions.
And similarly an organisation is also made of a group of individuals who work for a common goal...and have rules and regulations just like one has dos and donts prescribed by the religious texts.
What one needs to do is to balance his personal and professional life...and for this situation i feel that whichever indian corporation PeacePromoter would want to join it is essential for him to study that organisation in detail (its vision, its practices, its rules, etc)before he goes for the interview and also put forth his requirements to the interview panel and see if a feasible solution (that satisfies both the applicant and the company) can be arrived at.
Personally i dont think its a big issue. Its just that here we have a person who wants to practice his beliefs while excelling in his professional life. its just that he needs to pick up the right organisation. Thats it!!!
I'm extremely sorry and apologise if i have hurt anyone in the process of sharing my views.
Regards,
Neel.
From India, Bangalore
11What is important is that it is an issue which is causing difficulty to PeacePromoter and its a matter of concern for his professional life
and its good that he has the courage to openly ask it to all.
The only thing we need to do with respect to his question is to give our suggestions to him.
Let him decide which one is best for him.
Moreover his question is pertaining to an "Indian Corporation"; not a corporation driven primarily by another religion....although it appears to be so....or else he would have asked with respect to any organisation in the world!!!
i feel Sajid Muhammed from Kannur has given a very nice answer...Also in my view whether we are from X Religion or Y Religion, we are human beings primarily and just as each individual has different ideas the same way a group of individuals follow different religions.
And similarly an organisation is also made of a group of individuals who work for a common goal...and have rules and regulations just like one has dos and donts prescribed by the religious texts.
What one needs to do is to balance his personal and professional life...and for this situation i feel that whichever indian corporation PeacePromoter would want to join it is essential for him to study that organisation in detail (its vision, its practices, its rules, etc)before he goes for the interview and also put forth his requirements to the interview panel and see if a feasible solution (that satisfies both the applicant and the company) can be arrived at.
Personally i dont think its a big issue. Its just that here we have a person who wants to practice his beliefs while excelling in his professional life. its just that he needs to pick up the right organisation. Thats it!!!
I'm extremely sorry and apologise if i have hurt anyone in the process of sharing my views.
Regards,
Neel.
From India, Bangalore
It is a generalized statement, applicable to all Muslims and proven by Quran and authentic Sunnah. No person becomes a Muslim just because he/she was born to Muslim parents. One has to have the genuine faith (i.e., one is making an informed decision to accept Islam, irrespective of the faith of his parents) accompanied by righteous actions and prohibition of sinful ones.
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
I know they shouldn't but I want to ask what if they would
Yes, you have used the correct word. I was actually 'blasted' by the HR head who was taking my interview (and denied the position of intern, not even a job) then by my teacher in front of the entire class for not shaking hands.
That's what I am asking. Because i was informed by 2 friends of mine (both from different organizations) there use to manipulations in statements, one was eating Pizza from HR funds.
Yes, no one should but still my boss can ask me to do so for relative of his/her.
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
Yes, this is what i want that no one should force me to do so and I can depute a person for the same. But will it actually work in today's corporate environment ?
What I do in such parties is of next level. My presence in such parties is itself considered approval of the same. This is how it works in Islamic law.
Yes, this is what I want that they shouldn't come. Although, technically speaking, this point is less serious that all the above.
Brother, when you don't know the situation of others, don't become judgmental. I am not making a hue and cry out of nothing. I have been discriminated on the basis of religious reasons, that's the reason i am seeking the experience of others. Read my posts above and you will understand the context. I am a hard working individual and can be an asset to the organization but come what may, i simply can't compromise on the above points.
I am double postgraduate (2 years full time PDGM from an AICTE institute + Distance Mode MBA) in management (with HR and IT as specialization) and doing my 3rd full time post-graduate in Human Resource Management. I am also UGC NET-JRF qualified. As of now, campus placement is ongoing in my department. I have to make a choice to sit or not to sit for placements. If I am not sitting, i would be looking for teaching posts in some college/university.
Hence, i came on this forum to ask questions from working professionals so that I can make an informed choice. If no organization can accept me with my religious considerations, then its no point appearing for campus placements.
From India, Mumbai
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
Read my above post. I am asking of the very permission to offer Salah in the first place.
I know they shouldn't but I want to ask what if they would
Yes, you have used the correct word. I was actually 'blasted' by the HR head who was taking my interview (and denied the position of intern, not even a job) then by my teacher in front of the entire class for not shaking hands.
That's what I am asking. Because i was informed by 2 friends of mine (both from different organizations) there use to manipulations in statements, one was eating Pizza from HR funds.
Yes, no one should but still my boss can ask me to do so for relative of his/her.
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
I am yet to face such situation, that's the reason I am asking
Yes, this is what i want that no one should force me to do so and I can depute a person for the same. But will it actually work in today's corporate environment ?
What I do in such parties is of next level. My presence in such parties is itself considered approval of the same. This is how it works in Islamic law.
Yes, this is what I want that they shouldn't come. Although, technically speaking, this point is less serious that all the above.
Brother, when you don't know the situation of others, don't become judgmental. I am not making a hue and cry out of nothing. I have been discriminated on the basis of religious reasons, that's the reason i am seeking the experience of others. Read my posts above and you will understand the context. I am a hard working individual and can be an asset to the organization but come what may, i simply can't compromise on the above points.
I am double postgraduate (2 years full time PDGM from an AICTE institute + Distance Mode MBA) in management (with HR and IT as specialization) and doing my 3rd full time post-graduate in Human Resource Management. I am also UGC NET-JRF qualified. As of now, campus placement is ongoing in my department. I have to make a choice to sit or not to sit for placements. If I am not sitting, i would be looking for teaching posts in some college/university.
Hence, i came on this forum to ask questions from working professionals so that I can make an informed choice. If no organization can accept me with my religious considerations, then its no point appearing for campus placements.
From India, Mumbai
My dear brother,
I have gone through your clarifications and i agree to most of your points stated. One thing i want to tell you in SHORT & SWEET. "Eversince the ALMIGHTY ALLAH had created this world, NOTHING HAD CHANGED except HUMAN'S PERCEPTION LEVEL and it is due to ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY"
You know very well the "ROLE PLAYED BY SHAITAAN". He will always create problems for MUSLIM'S.
What i believe is that, if someone is feeling uncomfortable by your behaviour, please do make him explain(effective communication) about ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE. I seriously don't think so and i really wonder whether, are there people who haven't UNDERSTOOD ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE being PRACTICE BY MUSLIMS? The whole world is EXPOSED TO THE ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE besides ISLAAM doesn't HARM ANYONE.
If you are really not happy with INDIAN ORGANISATIONS, please do search for better opportunity in SAUDI ARABIA and i am sure you will get one by the grace of ALMIGHTY.
I had worked in SAUDI ARABIA am employed in QATAR. I don't have any issues with my employer related to ISMAALIC(RELIGIOUS) ACTIVITIES. Infact we get reminded by our colleagues to offer OBLIGATORY PRAYERS when we are struck in important assignments and we are PERMITTED TO OFFER PRAYERS IN-TIME.
If i am/was wrong, please do correct me. May ALMIGHTY help you to live a ISLAAMIC LIFE.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
I have gone through your clarifications and i agree to most of your points stated. One thing i want to tell you in SHORT & SWEET. "Eversince the ALMIGHTY ALLAH had created this world, NOTHING HAD CHANGED except HUMAN'S PERCEPTION LEVEL and it is due to ADVANCEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY"
You know very well the "ROLE PLAYED BY SHAITAAN". He will always create problems for MUSLIM'S.
What i believe is that, if someone is feeling uncomfortable by your behaviour, please do make him explain(effective communication) about ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE. I seriously don't think so and i really wonder whether, are there people who haven't UNDERSTOOD ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE being PRACTICE BY MUSLIMS? The whole world is EXPOSED TO THE ISLAAMIC LIFE STYLE besides ISLAAM doesn't HARM ANYONE.
If you are really not happy with INDIAN ORGANISATIONS, please do search for better opportunity in SAUDI ARABIA and i am sure you will get one by the grace of ALMIGHTY.
I had worked in SAUDI ARABIA am employed in QATAR. I don't have any issues with my employer related to ISMAALIC(RELIGIOUS) ACTIVITIES. Infact we get reminded by our colleagues to offer OBLIGATORY PRAYERS when we are struck in important assignments and we are PERMITTED TO OFFER PRAYERS IN-TIME.
If i am/was wrong, please do correct me. May ALMIGHTY help you to live a ISLAAMIC LIFE.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
JazakAllah for your response, Brother. I duly appreciate it. Ofcourse, the role of devil is everywhere to be found (My Non-muslim brothers and sisters, please understand we aren’t calling you as ‘Devils’. The devil referred here is a non-human creation called jinn which creates problems for Muslims in worshiping God.). Actually, if I simply put it, Islam is Deen and Deen is way of life. A practicing Muslim is Muslim in all times and at all places. Work is also part of the larger circumference of Ibadaat (i.e., worship) in Islam and one can’t deliberately indulge in making his earning Haraam.
Brother, when the other person is so prejudiced that he’s not interested to listen then what’s left to explain ? The HR head who rejected me didn’t give me a minute to explain and understand. I maintained my patience and calm and then vacated the place when he was done with his words.
Brother, I don’t blame at all for people not understanding the Islamic lifestyle. I only blame us Muslims for not practicing Islam and making the non-muslims develop stereotypes of Muslims on the basis of non-practicing Muslims. I am studying in Jamia Millia Islamia, half of my class is of Muslims. No one else except me has a problem shaking the hands of the females. Most of them don’t even offer Salah. Most of the Muslims working here in corporations are like such. Hence, out of nowhere, a Muslim appears for an interview and declines to shake hands with the female interviewer, it is bound to happen the interview may think that I am some type of ‘fanatic’, ‘fundamentalist’, ‘conservative’ or ‘extremist’ amongst the lot and hence they may decline my candidature on the fear that I may spoil their corporate culture (this is exactly what was told to me by the person who declined taking me as an intern in his organization)
Brother, I would be glad to work in KSA and I have tried searching there. The problem is that I am a fresher and don’t have any experience other than 8 months teaching experience in an institute. Be it bayt, jobsindubai, gulftalent, a fresher can’t get a job there. Even through local placement agents, they need an experienced candidate for both industry and academic jobs.
If you know some contacts through which I can get a job in KSA, please do let me know. I would be extremely grateful.
From India, Mumbai
Brother, when the other person is so prejudiced that he’s not interested to listen then what’s left to explain ? The HR head who rejected me didn’t give me a minute to explain and understand. I maintained my patience and calm and then vacated the place when he was done with his words.
Brother, I don’t blame at all for people not understanding the Islamic lifestyle. I only blame us Muslims for not practicing Islam and making the non-muslims develop stereotypes of Muslims on the basis of non-practicing Muslims. I am studying in Jamia Millia Islamia, half of my class is of Muslims. No one else except me has a problem shaking the hands of the females. Most of them don’t even offer Salah. Most of the Muslims working here in corporations are like such. Hence, out of nowhere, a Muslim appears for an interview and declines to shake hands with the female interviewer, it is bound to happen the interview may think that I am some type of ‘fanatic’, ‘fundamentalist’, ‘conservative’ or ‘extremist’ amongst the lot and hence they may decline my candidature on the fear that I may spoil their corporate culture (this is exactly what was told to me by the person who declined taking me as an intern in his organization)
Brother, I would be glad to work in KSA and I have tried searching there. The problem is that I am a fresher and don’t have any experience other than 8 months teaching experience in an institute. Be it bayt, jobsindubai, gulftalent, a fresher can’t get a job there. Even through local placement agents, they need an experienced candidate for both industry and academic jobs.
If you know some contacts through which I can get a job in KSA, please do let me know. I would be extremely grateful.
From India, Mumbai
Thank you Mr. Neel. This is what I intended when I posted my questions. It is indeed a matter of concern for my professional life and the choices I need to make (i.e., to decide between Industry and Academics)
I also want that the answer of Sajid Mohammad should become reality with all organizations. Yet, in reality this is not the case. I face prejudice and that's the reason i have created the post in the first place.
It's a good suggestion but I wonder if there exists any organization which categorically mentions that we won't accept anyone who declines shaking hands with females. I don't know how it would sound to the interviewer if I ask him/her straightforward if they could accept me as an employee with my restrictions. Yet, I have no choice but to ask the interviewer the same.
Well, having being rejected on this basis of this issue, its a big issue for me. And i would glad to know such organizations (in New Delhi) who can accommodate me with my religious practices.
From India, Mumbai
I also want that the answer of Sajid Mohammad should become reality with all organizations. Yet, in reality this is not the case. I face prejudice and that's the reason i have created the post in the first place.
It's a good suggestion but I wonder if there exists any organization which categorically mentions that we won't accept anyone who declines shaking hands with females. I don't know how it would sound to the interviewer if I ask him/her straightforward if they could accept me as an employee with my restrictions. Yet, I have no choice but to ask the interviewer the same.
Well, having being rejected on this basis of this issue, its a big issue for me. And i would glad to know such organizations (in New Delhi) who can accommodate me with my religious practices.
From India, Mumbai
My dear brother,
I suggest you to continue with your job rather taking it seriously. You continue to behave the way you like, if anyone is objecting, LET THEM DO SO. Your BEHAVIOUR is not going to cause HARM to anyone nor anyone is going to incur any kind of LOSS. I don't want to write anything more, though it is very useful information but, i know there are NARROW MINDED PROFESSIONALS(xyz) who will not accept it as GENUINE INFORMATION, similar to those whom you met till date.
Please complete your ONE YEAR, Inshaa ALLAH, ALLAH itself will do something for you. I am just a HUMAN BEING.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
I suggest you to continue with your job rather taking it seriously. You continue to behave the way you like, if anyone is objecting, LET THEM DO SO. Your BEHAVIOUR is not going to cause HARM to anyone nor anyone is going to incur any kind of LOSS. I don't want to write anything more, though it is very useful information but, i know there are NARROW MINDED PROFESSIONALS(xyz) who will not accept it as GENUINE INFORMATION, similar to those whom you met till date.
Please complete your ONE YEAR, Inshaa ALLAH, ALLAH itself will do something for you. I am just a HUMAN BEING.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Thank you for your kind consideration. I am not doing any job right now. I am a full time student of Masters in HRM in 4th semester. Time of campus placement has started and we are contacting different companies for the same. We are expecting quite a few recruiters. I have to make a choice to sit for the interviews or opt for applying as lecturer in management institutes.
From India, Mumbai
From India, Mumbai
Dear Peace promoter,
Thank you for your response. I worked in India over 40 years ago. I am retired now. In how many organisations did you find that you were rejected for not shaking hands? A single experince should not deter you from searching. It does not matter how large a company is or how famous. Companies, as far as I know, do not have any written policies on "Shaking hands" or attending parties. However, avoidng meetings at certain hours may not be possible.
Please tell me in which country there is no discrimination for people who are different. Non-islamists face discrimination in Islamic countries; non-Christians truly following their faith face some sort of problems in Christian countries, "Whites" may face discrimination in a predominatly "Black" nation, etc. In the 1960s people who emigrated to the UK had to face a lot of discrimination; the life is much better now.
Please also see Expat Workers Treatment By Saudis; How Expats are treated in Saudi Arabia and discuss with other who re in SA or returned from SA before you decide to emigrate.
I am sure there are organisations in India which take a different stand to the one that you have experienced. The organisations that Peer Mohamed Sardhar has worked for that matter.
I am not competent to comment on the religious belief of anyone.
Wish you all the best in your search for internship/employment.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
Thank you for your response. I worked in India over 40 years ago. I am retired now. In how many organisations did you find that you were rejected for not shaking hands? A single experince should not deter you from searching. It does not matter how large a company is or how famous. Companies, as far as I know, do not have any written policies on "Shaking hands" or attending parties. However, avoidng meetings at certain hours may not be possible.
Please tell me in which country there is no discrimination for people who are different. Non-islamists face discrimination in Islamic countries; non-Christians truly following their faith face some sort of problems in Christian countries, "Whites" may face discrimination in a predominatly "Black" nation, etc. In the 1960s people who emigrated to the UK had to face a lot of discrimination; the life is much better now.
Please also see Expat Workers Treatment By Saudis; How Expats are treated in Saudi Arabia and discuss with other who re in SA or returned from SA before you decide to emigrate.
I am sure there are organisations in India which take a different stand to the one that you have experienced. The organisations that Peer Mohamed Sardhar has worked for that matter.
I am not competent to comment on the religious belief of anyone.
Wish you all the best in your search for internship/employment.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
From United Kingdom
Dear Simhan,
I have been made to feel by my teachers (in the institute i study) and by my class mate (having 4-5 years work ex as HR Mgr) that I shouldn't go for industry jobs because with my religious restrictions, i would face discrimination as a norm, rather than an exception. Hence, I came to this forum to know if this is a norm or an exception. Anyway, reading the replies, I believe what happened with me was an exception, rather than norm.
I agree that everyone faces discrimination in some way or another in some place or another. I also agree with the condition in Saudi Arabia, my friends and relatives have testified to it.
I only needed to know the tolerance level towards such a person who comes with such a baggage of religious beliefs because I am in my final semester and I have to make a career choice between going for industry or academics.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
I have been made to feel by my teachers (in the institute i study) and by my class mate (having 4-5 years work ex as HR Mgr) that I shouldn't go for industry jobs because with my religious restrictions, i would face discrimination as a norm, rather than an exception. Hence, I came to this forum to know if this is a norm or an exception. Anyway, reading the replies, I believe what happened with me was an exception, rather than norm.
I agree that everyone faces discrimination in some way or another in some place or another. I also agree with the condition in Saudi Arabia, my friends and relatives have testified to it.
I only needed to know the tolerance level towards such a person who comes with such a baggage of religious beliefs because I am in my final semester and I have to make a career choice between going for industry or academics.
Regards
From India, Mumbai
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