Dear Anonymous,
You seem to be a senior guy in HR but your comment was uncalled for. She seems to be a new comer in this role and obviously needs our help in growing in this role. Its a very practical question and I don't think these things are taught in B-schools.
On the other hand I do agree that most of the companies do not keep house keeping staff on their payroll. They are usually managed through a vendor as it lightens the liability as a direct employer. For e.g. employing them directly would make it very difficult for an organisation to terminate their services as you would have to follow ID Act.
Where as if you employ them thru a vendor your liability would be minimum but as a Principal Employer you would still have to maintian data and ensure timely salary, minimum wages, PF, gratuity, ESI etc.
Additionally just by giving out Offer or appointment letter doesn't make them feel better. You need to treat them with respect and dignity and if possible involve and invite them to office functions, I'm sure this would help a lot.
From India
You seem to be a senior guy in HR but your comment was uncalled for. She seems to be a new comer in this role and obviously needs our help in growing in this role. Its a very practical question and I don't think these things are taught in B-schools.
On the other hand I do agree that most of the companies do not keep house keeping staff on their payroll. They are usually managed through a vendor as it lightens the liability as a direct employer. For e.g. employing them directly would make it very difficult for an organisation to terminate their services as you would have to follow ID Act.
Where as if you employ them thru a vendor your liability would be minimum but as a Principal Employer you would still have to maintian data and ensure timely salary, minimum wages, PF, gratuity, ESI etc.
Additionally just by giving out Offer or appointment letter doesn't make them feel better. You need to treat them with respect and dignity and if possible involve and invite them to office functions, I'm sure this would help a lot.
From India
Dear Anonymous,
Let us be professional, critisizing is a not right. Deploying office boys on contractual is a right thing but it certain cases it is a sucidial effort.
The house keeping / manpower contractors will deploy new people very regularly and managing critical activities with the new people will be difficult. For instance an office boy at Chairman / MD / CEO office requires a regular one only other wise on daily basis the HR / Admn manager to face the music hence it is better to evaluate / understand and deploy.
With best regards - kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
30Let us be professional, critisizing is a not right. Deploying office boys on contractual is a right thing but it certain cases it is a sucidial effort.
The house keeping / manpower contractors will deploy new people very regularly and managing critical activities with the new people will be difficult. For instance an office boy at Chairman / MD / CEO office requires a regular one only other wise on daily basis the HR / Admn manager to face the music hence it is better to evaluate / understand and deploy.
With best regards - kameswarao
From India, Hyderabad
DEar Ajithaa,
Even though we are in computer world,the manual system in offerletter,resignationletter,leaveletter,joining report are essential, as the HR Dept./personnel dept. is linked with legality.
So, if an employee in rolls other than casual employee, he is to be provided with offer letter with necessary important conditions
From India, Madras
Even though we are in computer world,the manual system in offerletter,resignationletter,leaveletter,joining report are essential, as the HR Dept./personnel dept. is linked with legality.
So, if an employee in rolls other than casual employee, he is to be provided with offer letter with necessary important conditions
From India, Madras
Hi,
If their gross salary satisifies the criteria of Minimum wages act then you can keep the salary details in appointment order otherwise your team would be in trouble. Treating every employee with equality is main moto of HRD so, your step is an intiative.
From India, Vijayawada
If their gross salary satisifies the criteria of Minimum wages act then you can keep the salary details in appointment order otherwise your team would be in trouble. Treating every employee with equality is main moto of HRD so, your step is an intiative.
From India, Vijayawada
Dear Asha,
Thanks for supplementing my views. In fact some people, who don't know any thing just try to pose themselves as if they know every thing and try to condemn others without giving specific solution to the problem. These people just try to make hell of the jobs of their subordinates in real life scenario.
You can well understand why this person has nick-named himelf as "ANONYMOUS." Naturally with the fear not to get exposed, who he is, while revealing his "BAD BOSS" phobia. I can vouchsafe, he is not a good boss in his official life. Such people mostly fail as they can't earn faith and loyalty of their subordinates due to keeping them confused and terror stricken.
P S Dhingra
Vigilance & Change Management Consultant
From India, Delhi
Thanks for supplementing my views. In fact some people, who don't know any thing just try to pose themselves as if they know every thing and try to condemn others without giving specific solution to the problem. These people just try to make hell of the jobs of their subordinates in real life scenario.
You can well understand why this person has nick-named himelf as "ANONYMOUS." Naturally with the fear not to get exposed, who he is, while revealing his "BAD BOSS" phobia. I can vouchsafe, he is not a good boss in his official life. Such people mostly fail as they can't earn faith and loyalty of their subordinates due to keeping them confused and terror stricken.
P S Dhingra
Vigilance & Change Management Consultant
From India, Delhi
Dear Ajitha
Did you get the answer to your query ?
Or, are you more confused ?
I would like to clarify in a more holistic way, because you have not given any information about your company. but the fact that this question arose in your mind (here I agree with AnonymousA's comments that an HR executive is supposed to know these basic) implies that yours is a small company with no well laid out HR policies.
In traditional big Indian companies, PSU's etc. : practice good people management practices. Every employee is considered/treated equal in terms of principles of employment. So whether he is a peon/messenger/office-boy - if he is in regular role - he is entitled to all official documents related to his employment, (like any other employee), like appointment letter, increment letter, promotion letter, appraisals etc.
Midsized new-age companies (>20K Cr.), MNCs, etc : Here, the trend is not to inflate head-count (as it affects productivity figures), so such and other similar services are outsourced to the extent possible, to a contractor. The system is exactly what Mr. Anonymous has described:
"all the office boys are on the payroll of our housekeeping contractor, and we pay monthly a fix amount to the housekeeping contractor for providing all services related to housekeeping. So we enjoy services of office boys, without any liability, so tomorrow if we dont want any office boy we can ask contractor to remove them."
In such a scenario, of course, there is no question of Offer letter etc.
Small companies :: Here they follow ad-hoc system. The peon/office boysw dealing with important tasks - like those attached to Chairman, Directors, going to Govt. offices, Banks etc. are on regular roll, rest are casual, temporary etc. The regular office boys can be given offer letter/appointment letter etc.
But since, these companies do not have any fair HR policies nor are very employee-friendly, it would be better that instead of seeking our opinion; you should ask your HR Director or your 'Honourable' Chairman for guidance or orders; else you may find yourself in trouble with the management.
Do contact me in case of any complications or further information.
Best regards.
From India, Delhi
Did you get the answer to your query ?
Or, are you more confused ?
I would like to clarify in a more holistic way, because you have not given any information about your company. but the fact that this question arose in your mind (here I agree with AnonymousA's comments that an HR executive is supposed to know these basic) implies that yours is a small company with no well laid out HR policies.
In traditional big Indian companies, PSU's etc. : practice good people management practices. Every employee is considered/treated equal in terms of principles of employment. So whether he is a peon/messenger/office-boy - if he is in regular role - he is entitled to all official documents related to his employment, (like any other employee), like appointment letter, increment letter, promotion letter, appraisals etc.
Midsized new-age companies (>20K Cr.), MNCs, etc : Here, the trend is not to inflate head-count (as it affects productivity figures), so such and other similar services are outsourced to the extent possible, to a contractor. The system is exactly what Mr. Anonymous has described:
"all the office boys are on the payroll of our housekeeping contractor, and we pay monthly a fix amount to the housekeeping contractor for providing all services related to housekeeping. So we enjoy services of office boys, without any liability, so tomorrow if we dont want any office boy we can ask contractor to remove them."
In such a scenario, of course, there is no question of Offer letter etc.
Small companies :: Here they follow ad-hoc system. The peon/office boysw dealing with important tasks - like those attached to Chairman, Directors, going to Govt. offices, Banks etc. are on regular roll, rest are casual, temporary etc. The regular office boys can be given offer letter/appointment letter etc.
But since, these companies do not have any fair HR policies nor are very employee-friendly, it would be better that instead of seeking our opinion; you should ask your HR Director or your 'Honourable' Chairman for guidance or orders; else you may find yourself in trouble with the management.
Do contact me in case of any complications or further information.
Best regards.
From India, Delhi
Yes, of course ! Every person attached and working with the organisation should be given the offer letter irrespective of his position. It should also cleraly mentioned the designation, nature of work, company Rules and all other benifits details which organisation provides.
(J P Singh)
Head - IT & Operations
Head - Depository Services (NSDL & CDSL)
Head - Institutional Business (Equity)
Contact : 98702 77049
From India, Mumbai
(J P Singh)
Head - IT & Operations
Head - Depository Services (NSDL & CDSL)
Head - Institutional Business (Equity)
Contact : 98702 77049
From India, Mumbai
Dear Anonymous,
I have already mentioned "nobody can claim to be expert", even you or me. If some one does not have the knowledge about a particular thing we must not refrain to guide him or her. Even, the doctors of your example consult other medical experts at the time of need to serve the society better.
If your subordinate comes to you and asks for some clarification and your reply is the same, as you have given to Ajitha, that would not solve the problem of your organization, rather the subordinate will do some wrong as per his own thinking. Just think, what would be the benefit of the organization in keeping you at your position.
I once again stress that this forum is meant to help each other and not to rebuke the less knowledgeable, rather he/she must get benefit of our knowledge. Howsoever expert you may be, some times you may also feel the need to ask for help in this forum to solve any ticklish problem of your organization. Think, if some one gives you the same reply you have given to Ajitha, how would you feel that time?
Sorry, if I have hurt your sentiments. I don't know your position, but, I expect, as a responsible HR man you would definitely like to help others if you have the solution for the problem.
Regards
Dhingra
From India, Delhi
I have already mentioned "nobody can claim to be expert", even you or me. If some one does not have the knowledge about a particular thing we must not refrain to guide him or her. Even, the doctors of your example consult other medical experts at the time of need to serve the society better.
If your subordinate comes to you and asks for some clarification and your reply is the same, as you have given to Ajitha, that would not solve the problem of your organization, rather the subordinate will do some wrong as per his own thinking. Just think, what would be the benefit of the organization in keeping you at your position.
I once again stress that this forum is meant to help each other and not to rebuke the less knowledgeable, rather he/she must get benefit of our knowledge. Howsoever expert you may be, some times you may also feel the need to ask for help in this forum to solve any ticklish problem of your organization. Think, if some one gives you the same reply you have given to Ajitha, how would you feel that time?
Sorry, if I have hurt your sentiments. I don't know your position, but, I expect, as a responsible HR man you would definitely like to help others if you have the solution for the problem.
Regards
Dhingra
From India, Delhi
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