Hi Rajender
Management has full authority to with hold promotions depending on the situation. In this case, since the employee is in Notice period, no discrimination case can be justified. But a law professional might disagree to this opinion...:-)
Cheers
Navneet Chandra
From India, Delhi
86Management has full authority to with hold promotions depending on the situation. In this case, since the employee is in Notice period, no discrimination case can be justified. But a law professional might disagree to this opinion...:-)
Cheers
Navneet Chandra
From India, Delhi
It will not be a case of discrimination at all.
There is no compulsion (legal or otherwise) on the Company to give promotion to the employee; It is totally at their discretion. And on top of it the employee's resignation has weakened his case further.
Normally no one will switch jobs till they get a good offer or a promotion or both. I may be wrong, but I assume the employee would have negotiated good terms before resigning and his Manager/HR would have tried to retain him but he still chose to go ahead with the resignation.
I feel this is just a matter of bad luck or wrong timing that has caused this issue to come up. What if the management would have announced the promotions one day after the employee left? would the employee still ask for the promotion?
My suggestion is that the employee should take this episode with a pinch of salt and move on. If he's really good at his work rewards will follow sooner or later.
Regards,
Ritesh
From India, Pune
There is no compulsion (legal or otherwise) on the Company to give promotion to the employee; It is totally at their discretion. And on top of it the employee's resignation has weakened his case further.
Normally no one will switch jobs till they get a good offer or a promotion or both. I may be wrong, but I assume the employee would have negotiated good terms before resigning and his Manager/HR would have tried to retain him but he still chose to go ahead with the resignation.
I feel this is just a matter of bad luck or wrong timing that has caused this issue to come up. What if the management would have announced the promotions one day after the employee left? would the employee still ask for the promotion?
My suggestion is that the employee should take this episode with a pinch of salt and move on. If he's really good at his work rewards will follow sooner or later.
Regards,
Ritesh
From India, Pune
Dear Ritesh,
Greetings!!!
You are not correct in saying that promotion is not a matter of right. Supreme court has already ruled that ""The right of eligible employees to be considered for promotion is virtually a part of their fundamental right guaranteed under Article 16(Equality of opportunity in matter of public employment) of the Constitution," way back in 2010 itself. However, the legal process and overall legal system in India is so taxing that anybody thinks numerous times before he/she resorts to that.
As far as, relevance is concerned- as Navneet said - to each his own. I will never exclude anybody on notice period from incentive/promotion/reward because the moment he/she becomes eligible for these, that means they are performers. I will try my level best to retain my performers till the last point of time and i will also be zealously guarding my brand. But, having said that, your opinion is not wrong either. This is going to differ from person to person 7 organisation to organization.
We already had a healthy discussion on the same. Plz look for the thread.
From India, Delhi
Greetings!!!
You are not correct in saying that promotion is not a matter of right. Supreme court has already ruled that ""The right of eligible employees to be considered for promotion is virtually a part of their fundamental right guaranteed under Article 16(Equality of opportunity in matter of public employment) of the Constitution," way back in 2010 itself. However, the legal process and overall legal system in India is so taxing that anybody thinks numerous times before he/she resorts to that.
As far as, relevance is concerned- as Navneet said - to each his own. I will never exclude anybody on notice period from incentive/promotion/reward because the moment he/she becomes eligible for these, that means they are performers. I will try my level best to retain my performers till the last point of time and i will also be zealously guarding my brand. But, having said that, your opinion is not wrong either. This is going to differ from person to person 7 organisation to organization.
We already had a healthy discussion on the same. Plz look for the thread.
From India, Delhi
I think this Article 16 is meant for people in the public / government services where promotions happen on a time bound manner rather than performance based. I'm not too sure if this would be applicable to the private sector.
Can any of our friends here, good in legal systems, please throw more light on this ? Will be great to have clarity on this important issue.
Cheers
Navneet
From India, Delhi
Can any of our friends here, good in legal systems, please throw more light on this ? Will be great to have clarity on this important issue.
Cheers
Navneet
From India, Delhi
Dear Ritesh & Nkulsh,
IT was a very good discussion and informative.
I agree with both of your views. There are companies working in both the ways.
"EMPLOYEE ORIENTED & COMPANY ONRIENTED"
But most of them are company oriented...... "in my view"
Regards,
Bharghavi
From India, Bangalore
IT was a very good discussion and informative.
I agree with both of your views. There are companies working in both the ways.
"EMPLOYEE ORIENTED & COMPANY ONRIENTED"
But most of them are company oriented...... "in my view"
Regards,
Bharghavi
From India, Bangalore
it makes no sense to promote some one who has resigned the services. moreover you promotion refers to increase in his cader and responsibilities, when he resigned his services, what good happens to the company in promoting him.
From India, Gurgaon
From India, Gurgaon
Dear Navneet,
Greetings!!!
You are right, the decision came in the context of Public employment.
However, a fundamental right remains a fundamental right whether you work in public or private employment.
This decision can serve as a guiding light for those who want to pursue a case of "denial of equality of opportunity". However, the appellant will need strong evidence of such discrimination.
From India, Delhi
Greetings!!!
You are right, the decision came in the context of Public employment.
However, a fundamental right remains a fundamental right whether you work in public or private employment.
This decision can serve as a guiding light for those who want to pursue a case of "denial of equality of opportunity". However, the appellant will need strong evidence of such discrimination.
From India, Delhi
Dear Shantanu/Teamgrouphr,
I appreciate you adding a new perspective to this discussion, I would like to add the following:
1. As pointed out by Navneet, Article 16 may be applicable in govt. employment, not in private sector; It would be really great if someone with good legal knowledge can confirm this.
2. In this particular case, a batch of employees are getting a promotion, I doubt any real assessment for eligibility would have been done since the whole batch is getting the promotion. Such batch-wise promotions are common up to a certain level in IT companies, the reason behind doing this is to prevent attrition in the 1-3 years tenure category - Attrition in this tenure category puts huge strain on cost & effort for replacement and training and also severely hampers delivery due to attrition of an employee who has just became independent in his work.
3. I agree with you that all Companies must put in their best efforts to retain their performers - the operative word here is "Performers". Since an entire batch is getting promotion, I doubt any real assessment of their performance has taken place, they are simply getting a promotion because company cannot afford to lose them at this point of their tenure.
4. I agree that incentives and awards have to be given to employees for past performance even if they are on notice. I have done this in my past employments; we had even sent certificates to ex-employees for the good work they did while they were working with the Company.
5. Our role as HR is not to favour any side (employer or employee), we have to ensure that neither party takes undue advantage of the other, hence I firmly believe that promotion should not be given to a person on notice. If the person is willing to withdraw his/her resignation and can give an assurance of sticking with the Company then his/her case can be considered for promotion.
6. If any company starts giving in to demands for promotion they will become 'top heavy' in a matter of years, this would be an absolute disaster because:
a) Even average performers would start demanding promotions.
b) Once employees get a certain designation, they expect a certain level of pay along with it - will companies be able to afford such a system?
c) If the Company gives promotions but pays lower than market then they are making their employees "potential targets" for poaching by other companies.
7. Companies have to devise policies that can be sustained for years together, if matters like promotion are taken lightly and liberally then the company will soon find itself in a self-created mess. I have witnessed some cases where Companies makes big promises when times are good and cannot fulfill them when times are bad.
Regards,
Ritesh Shah
From India, Pune
I appreciate you adding a new perspective to this discussion, I would like to add the following:
1. As pointed out by Navneet, Article 16 may be applicable in govt. employment, not in private sector; It would be really great if someone with good legal knowledge can confirm this.
2. In this particular case, a batch of employees are getting a promotion, I doubt any real assessment for eligibility would have been done since the whole batch is getting the promotion. Such batch-wise promotions are common up to a certain level in IT companies, the reason behind doing this is to prevent attrition in the 1-3 years tenure category - Attrition in this tenure category puts huge strain on cost & effort for replacement and training and also severely hampers delivery due to attrition of an employee who has just became independent in his work.
3. I agree with you that all Companies must put in their best efforts to retain their performers - the operative word here is "Performers". Since an entire batch is getting promotion, I doubt any real assessment of their performance has taken place, they are simply getting a promotion because company cannot afford to lose them at this point of their tenure.
4. I agree that incentives and awards have to be given to employees for past performance even if they are on notice. I have done this in my past employments; we had even sent certificates to ex-employees for the good work they did while they were working with the Company.
5. Our role as HR is not to favour any side (employer or employee), we have to ensure that neither party takes undue advantage of the other, hence I firmly believe that promotion should not be given to a person on notice. If the person is willing to withdraw his/her resignation and can give an assurance of sticking with the Company then his/her case can be considered for promotion.
6. If any company starts giving in to demands for promotion they will become 'top heavy' in a matter of years, this would be an absolute disaster because:
a) Even average performers would start demanding promotions.
b) Once employees get a certain designation, they expect a certain level of pay along with it - will companies be able to afford such a system?
c) If the Company gives promotions but pays lower than market then they are making their employees "potential targets" for poaching by other companies.
7. Companies have to devise policies that can be sustained for years together, if matters like promotion are taken lightly and liberally then the company will soon find itself in a self-created mess. I have witnessed some cases where Companies makes big promises when times are good and cannot fulfill them when times are bad.
Regards,
Ritesh Shah
From India, Pune
@ Bharghavi,
You have made a very good observation, indeed Company's focus on the "employee friendly" measure has reduced to an extent.
I have first hand witnessed this change in focus. I may be wrong, but from my experience I can tell you the following:
Every Company has the following priorities:
Priority 1 - Stability
Priority 2 - Profit
Priority 3 - Brand value
Today's markets are having cut-throat competition, Retail and Telecom sectors are operating on wafer thin margins, IT companies have been hit hard due to stringent VISA rules, hike in VISA costs, Demand (not request) from Customers for 10% cost reduction every year, Fast food chains are getting so competitive that they are offering products in Rs 25 range.
Though we get to see only one side on the coin viz, cost cutting, reduction in variable components, delayed appraisals, etc., it is important for us to try and understand the business side challenges as well. This situation is so serious that in some cases the CEO level people are personally meeting clients to offer value addition, co-development & co-innovation solutions in order to protect the business and keep competition away. Normally such meetings would be handled by an appropriate person from Sales/Marketing.
The overall effect of recession, increasing competition, increasing costs Vs. cost reduction demands fro customers, etc. is forcing companies to roll back/ delay/ hold some of the benefits/incentives and implement cost cutting measures for non-revenue generating
activities.
This may not be a very holistic or exhaustive view of the situation, but this what I experienced.
Best Regards,
Ritesh Shah
From India, Pune
You have made a very good observation, indeed Company's focus on the "employee friendly" measure has reduced to an extent.
I have first hand witnessed this change in focus. I may be wrong, but from my experience I can tell you the following:
Every Company has the following priorities:
Priority 1 - Stability
Priority 2 - Profit
Priority 3 - Brand value
Today's markets are having cut-throat competition, Retail and Telecom sectors are operating on wafer thin margins, IT companies have been hit hard due to stringent VISA rules, hike in VISA costs, Demand (not request) from Customers for 10% cost reduction every year, Fast food chains are getting so competitive that they are offering products in Rs 25 range.
Though we get to see only one side on the coin viz, cost cutting, reduction in variable components, delayed appraisals, etc., it is important for us to try and understand the business side challenges as well. This situation is so serious that in some cases the CEO level people are personally meeting clients to offer value addition, co-development & co-innovation solutions in order to protect the business and keep competition away. Normally such meetings would be handled by an appropriate person from Sales/Marketing.
The overall effect of recession, increasing competition, increasing costs Vs. cost reduction demands fro customers, etc. is forcing companies to roll back/ delay/ hold some of the benefits/incentives and implement cost cutting measures for non-revenue generating
activities.
This may not be a very holistic or exhaustive view of the situation, but this what I experienced.
Best Regards,
Ritesh Shah
From India, Pune
Dear Ritesh,
Greetings!!!
1. Navneet's as well as yours doubt is valid. In India there are mainly three types of employees. Government employees, Employees in government controlled corporate bodies known as Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs) and Private sector employees.
The rules and regulations governing the employment of government employees stem from the Constitution of India.
Public sector employees are governed by their own service regulations, which either have statutory force, in the case of statutory corporations, or are based on statutory orders.
Private sector employees excluding workman are governed by respective contracts of employment and hence Article 16 has no direct applicability.
However, you need to understand that Art 16 has wide implications and if someone is ready to take up the cudgels, one can pursue this. There are many factors in public employment which serve as guiding light for private employment such as DA, Pay Commissions etc.
2. The question here is "Denial of equality of opportunity" which assumes that everything else is equal. Assessment always takes place before promotion, real/unreal and it is independent of the fact whether the whole batch or a single individual is being promoted.
3. I do not agree that a company will give promotion simply because of attrition factor. In private employment , performers are always given all kinds of perks/recognition/rewards etc and non performer are always let go of.
However, i agree that the operative word remains "Performance".
4. Great!!! Hats off to you for doing that.
5.Obviously , promotion for a person ( Performer) is nothing but a retention exercise. Exit , today has undergone sea change. You want that person to come back and to act as the brand ambassador of your company. Promotion during notice period is the price that you pay for it.
6. The question here is that your employee has qualified for the performance by putting in hard work and exceeding targets/expectations.You can never become top heavy by not letting go of your performers.
However, you are correct in saying that some people may use it for personal gains. But, there has to be a system in the company for separating chaff from wheat. Keep the wheat , let go of chaff.
7. Promotion is always a serious matter. A light matter does not elicit so much response.
From India, Delhi
Greetings!!!
1. Navneet's as well as yours doubt is valid. In India there are mainly three types of employees. Government employees, Employees in government controlled corporate bodies known as Public Sector Undertakings (PSUs) and Private sector employees.
The rules and regulations governing the employment of government employees stem from the Constitution of India.
Public sector employees are governed by their own service regulations, which either have statutory force, in the case of statutory corporations, or are based on statutory orders.
Private sector employees excluding workman are governed by respective contracts of employment and hence Article 16 has no direct applicability.
However, you need to understand that Art 16 has wide implications and if someone is ready to take up the cudgels, one can pursue this. There are many factors in public employment which serve as guiding light for private employment such as DA, Pay Commissions etc.
2. The question here is "Denial of equality of opportunity" which assumes that everything else is equal. Assessment always takes place before promotion, real/unreal and it is independent of the fact whether the whole batch or a single individual is being promoted.
3. I do not agree that a company will give promotion simply because of attrition factor. In private employment , performers are always given all kinds of perks/recognition/rewards etc and non performer are always let go of.
However, i agree that the operative word remains "Performance".
4. Great!!! Hats off to you for doing that.
5.Obviously , promotion for a person ( Performer) is nothing but a retention exercise. Exit , today has undergone sea change. You want that person to come back and to act as the brand ambassador of your company. Promotion during notice period is the price that you pay for it.
6. The question here is that your employee has qualified for the performance by putting in hard work and exceeding targets/expectations.You can never become top heavy by not letting go of your performers.
However, you are correct in saying that some people may use it for personal gains. But, there has to be a system in the company for separating chaff from wheat. Keep the wheat , let go of chaff.
7. Promotion is always a serious matter. A light matter does not elicit so much response.
From India, Delhi
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