Hello.
Please consider my comments (in blue)
You said: Then here in my company the firing authority is not the HR but HR should fire anyone after getting the order from someone who is working with the capacity of a Vice president or Director but, they always seeks the advice of the HR manager who is having direct interaction with the employees.
Response: Yes it is true and correct that the decision to Hire & Fire must be taken by a designated and empowered authority in the organization. While the HR may do all the processing (like necessary word processing, issuance fo the letters etc. purely from the point of view tp legally safe guarding organization's interests.
You said: What I am looking from you great HR gurus, is please suggest me something best so that I can keep the new joinees away from those old indiciplines created earlier by other employee who has been fired 10 days ago and she just taken the advantage of being a female(sorry if anyone found this wording wrong)and biased other old talents against HR and management team, she used some wordings against one of the senior HR manager saying that he can't be trusted and somany vulgar words.
Response: Sorry, you cannot insulate other employees new joinees or seniors from such vile infulences. Don't let us even attempt that. After all we are dealing with grown ups and NOT small children!! People will mingle and we cannot police them all the time. If you stop this in office, they can always meet outside anyway. To avoid such things in future, you must devise ways to CLARIFY HR's role in a suitable manner. In any case HR is NOT a front stage actor. He will always be back-stage worker. Thus his presence may not be seen though it will be felt by its action. HR, I have always professed, is a conscience keeper of the organization and additionally is a facilitator of interpersonal transactions within the organization. He is a balancer, coordinator and a team builder! His job is to ADVISE all those who seek his advice, including the seniors. And yes, HR should never perceive itself to be a "power centre." An employee is an employee. The gender does not matter. Often girls behave with far greater maturity that the boys and boys are also many times seen behaving in unnecessrily arrogant and mindless manner.
You said: How can I assure other female employees that they should keep faith on him(HR Manager) as they already biased by her.This is the main question which I am desperately looking for an answer.
Response: Please, faith is something you have to EARN and you do so by your credible, objective yet compassionate and efficient manner where those around will INFER that you mean what you say and say what you mean!
Having attempted to cover all your points in your previous posting, permit me to emphasise that the role of HR requires a much more elaborate a discussion and there kindly do not treat the above points as comprehensive or conclusive statement on the subject.
Regards
samvedan
September 11, 2007
From India, Pune
315Please consider my comments (in blue)
You said: Then here in my company the firing authority is not the HR but HR should fire anyone after getting the order from someone who is working with the capacity of a Vice president or Director but, they always seeks the advice of the HR manager who is having direct interaction with the employees.
Response: Yes it is true and correct that the decision to Hire & Fire must be taken by a designated and empowered authority in the organization. While the HR may do all the processing (like necessary word processing, issuance fo the letters etc. purely from the point of view tp legally safe guarding organization's interests.
You said: What I am looking from you great HR gurus, is please suggest me something best so that I can keep the new joinees away from those old indiciplines created earlier by other employee who has been fired 10 days ago and she just taken the advantage of being a female(sorry if anyone found this wording wrong)and biased other old talents against HR and management team, she used some wordings against one of the senior HR manager saying that he can't be trusted and somany vulgar words.
Response: Sorry, you cannot insulate other employees new joinees or seniors from such vile infulences. Don't let us even attempt that. After all we are dealing with grown ups and NOT small children!! People will mingle and we cannot police them all the time. If you stop this in office, they can always meet outside anyway. To avoid such things in future, you must devise ways to CLARIFY HR's role in a suitable manner. In any case HR is NOT a front stage actor. He will always be back-stage worker. Thus his presence may not be seen though it will be felt by its action. HR, I have always professed, is a conscience keeper of the organization and additionally is a facilitator of interpersonal transactions within the organization. He is a balancer, coordinator and a team builder! His job is to ADVISE all those who seek his advice, including the seniors. And yes, HR should never perceive itself to be a "power centre." An employee is an employee. The gender does not matter. Often girls behave with far greater maturity that the boys and boys are also many times seen behaving in unnecessrily arrogant and mindless manner.
You said: How can I assure other female employees that they should keep faith on him(HR Manager) as they already biased by her.This is the main question which I am desperately looking for an answer.
Response: Please, faith is something you have to EARN and you do so by your credible, objective yet compassionate and efficient manner where those around will INFER that you mean what you say and say what you mean!
Having attempted to cover all your points in your previous posting, permit me to emphasise that the role of HR requires a much more elaborate a discussion and there kindly do not treat the above points as comprehensive or conclusive statement on the subject.
Regards
samvedan
September 11, 2007
From India, Pune
Good SAM. But I suggest to lie low and do not give much importance to this. Employees normally views a circular as an official document conveying management views. And any such circular from HR would be viewed as a knee jerk reaction and creates further doubt in their mind. As a general statement , orally you may indicate the new joinees during induction that if they have any issue or want clarification they can talk to HR or any higher official instead of discussing among themselves.
Just ignore that lady after some time every body will mind their business .
MSV
Just ignore that lady after some time every body will mind their business .
MSV
Hi Vengateshan,
u really spoke my mind, even i am of the opinion that a circular will furthur worsen the situation, there is no point in worrying about a person who no longer exists in the organisation.
A circular may get evryone under one roof and discuss the issue which should not be given so much importance. afterall everyone of us know whats our job and we do it as per the Policy laid down by company.
the more you react the more chances the employees think that u are on the wronge side and defending youselves.
Grooming the new joinees is a matter of Trainers efficieny. attitudes can be changed. i think the employees spend more time discussing things like this.
Employee engagement and more interactions with the employees can solve the problem. Do some activities something outstanding after which the employees should talk about it. Divert their attention from this stuff.
u have to also give importance to Control which is a very important principle of managing people.
Deepak.
From India, Mumbai
u really spoke my mind, even i am of the opinion that a circular will furthur worsen the situation, there is no point in worrying about a person who no longer exists in the organisation.
A circular may get evryone under one roof and discuss the issue which should not be given so much importance. afterall everyone of us know whats our job and we do it as per the Policy laid down by company.
the more you react the more chances the employees think that u are on the wronge side and defending youselves.
Grooming the new joinees is a matter of Trainers efficieny. attitudes can be changed. i think the employees spend more time discussing things like this.
Employee engagement and more interactions with the employees can solve the problem. Do some activities something outstanding after which the employees should talk about it. Divert their attention from this stuff.
u have to also give importance to Control which is a very important principle of managing people.
Deepak.
From India, Mumbai
Dear All,
Almost everybody faces such a problem in their professional life. In my opinion, instead of any circular or dedicated campaign against that ex employee or her stories, we should work on strengthening following for long term relationship.
- transparency in actions
- communication, communication, & communication in all forums (official/non official) at every level.
- creating an environment of trust
- employee friendly image
Regards,
Sameer
From India, Calcutta
Almost everybody faces such a problem in their professional life. In my opinion, instead of any circular or dedicated campaign against that ex employee or her stories, we should work on strengthening following for long term relationship.
- transparency in actions
- communication, communication, & communication in all forums (official/non official) at every level.
- creating an environment of trust
- employee friendly image
Regards,
Sameer
From India, Calcutta
This has been a very healthy discussion on a very sensitive issue. My sincere appreciations for all who have shared their views.
Sam's views are true essense of HR profession.
At the same time I agree with vengatesan about the circular.
Consider a situation wherein in a clean and still water of a pond, someone throws a stone, suddenly everything becomes blurred.
But you cant do anyting to make it clean and still again. It gets clean and still on its own. Quickly too. But it you try to put your hand in it, the result will be more disturbance.
When trust and reliability is questioned, you cant prove it with a circular. It has to be won back by consistancy. It takes its own time. But it can be won back only with patience.
When people get on with their jobs, they will automatically forget the issue and realise that the HR person is trustworthy and reliable (if he actually is). This will happen on his own. Let people judge the situation. Dont make them wear glasses of the circular to see the situation. Trust their naked eyes.
As HR professionals many a times our heart boils over things which we really care about but can do nothing about. It is good that we care and monitor. But here not reacting and carrying on with our jobs (consistancy, transparancy, cooperation) is the need of the hour.
Remember, pond has ability to settle its issues itself. Clarity and stadiness are its characteristics.
Regards,
Hiten
From India, New Delhi
Sam's views are true essense of HR profession.
At the same time I agree with vengatesan about the circular.
Consider a situation wherein in a clean and still water of a pond, someone throws a stone, suddenly everything becomes blurred.
But you cant do anyting to make it clean and still again. It gets clean and still on its own. Quickly too. But it you try to put your hand in it, the result will be more disturbance.
When trust and reliability is questioned, you cant prove it with a circular. It has to be won back by consistancy. It takes its own time. But it can be won back only with patience.
When people get on with their jobs, they will automatically forget the issue and realise that the HR person is trustworthy and reliable (if he actually is). This will happen on his own. Let people judge the situation. Dont make them wear glasses of the circular to see the situation. Trust their naked eyes.
As HR professionals many a times our heart boils over things which we really care about but can do nothing about. It is good that we care and monitor. But here not reacting and carrying on with our jobs (consistancy, transparancy, cooperation) is the need of the hour.
Remember, pond has ability to settle its issues itself. Clarity and stadiness are its characteristics.
Regards,
Hiten
From India, New Delhi
Top Management and HR can address all the employees of the company and clarify the reason which made them take a decision to fire an employee and emphasis that employee can personally write to the top management if they come across any incident of harrassment.
HR needs to make employees feel that they care for them. If this happens no amount of such rumours will effect them.
From India, Bangalore
HR needs to make employees feel that they care for them. If this happens no amount of such rumours will effect them.
From India, Bangalore
Hi
I would like to draw attention Of Dev,Samvedan & Peer saab.
Come-on samvedan How can you say “In no Company HR dept. has authority to Hire & Fire.” It is a General Statement samvedan Saab. I astonish to see Mr. Peer Saab going with the flow of same comments.
One has to understand in Gross Misconduct's it is HR dept only which takes the decision and the comments from operations/production becomes futile or not entertained. Here the case is of Misconduct. In some Call centers ---Agents are straightaway conveyed for termination because of Misconduct. And this happens only by middle level HR's .No need to take permission from Senior Management.
Well Idea about circular is okay but generally such circumstances need to be tackled in not be reacting at 90 Degree.
Regards,
Tikam Singh -Pune
From India, Pune
I would like to draw attention Of Dev,Samvedan & Peer saab.
Come-on samvedan How can you say “In no Company HR dept. has authority to Hire & Fire.” It is a General Statement samvedan Saab. I astonish to see Mr. Peer Saab going with the flow of same comments.
One has to understand in Gross Misconduct's it is HR dept only which takes the decision and the comments from operations/production becomes futile or not entertained. Here the case is of Misconduct. In some Call centers ---Agents are straightaway conveyed for termination because of Misconduct. And this happens only by middle level HR's .No need to take permission from Senior Management.
Well Idea about circular is okay but generally such circumstances need to be tackled in not be reacting at 90 Degree.
Regards,
Tikam Singh -Pune
From India, Pune
Hello,
Just one point please!
Legally speaking no one can terminate any employee if he is of a lesser rank than the one who appointed the concerned employee.
Signing a dismissal letter or a charge sheet does not mean the authority to terminate someone's employment.
In my personal and professional opinion if in a call centre an employee is sacked by HR, one will have to examine the terms of employment of the employee and the authority formally vested in HR without agreeing or disagreeing with the statement made!
In any case, what I said was "generally". It was NOT an absolute statement! As HR don't let us go overboard with the so called "authority". We are a service function and that's it!
Regards
samvedan
September 12, 2007
From India, Pune
Just one point please!
Legally speaking no one can terminate any employee if he is of a lesser rank than the one who appointed the concerned employee.
Signing a dismissal letter or a charge sheet does not mean the authority to terminate someone's employment.
In my personal and professional opinion if in a call centre an employee is sacked by HR, one will have to examine the terms of employment of the employee and the authority formally vested in HR without agreeing or disagreeing with the statement made!
In any case, what I said was "generally". It was NOT an absolute statement! As HR don't let us go overboard with the so called "authority". We are a service function and that's it!
Regards
samvedan
September 12, 2007
From India, Pune
hi you just told your emplopyee that 'people are hire on their skills but fire for their behaviour' remember that. Sumit Executive HR
From Qatar
From Qatar
Hi,
It all depends what kind rapport HR has with employees.
Personally I faced same situation, I was told to terminate one of the employee on immdiate effect with out notice period.
What I did is, I told very clearing to that person that it was management and HR decision.
Also i explained the reasons for termination.
And communicated with other employees(formal communication) to make understand on what grounds we had taken decision.
When one employee is terminated, it effects entire company specially his/her colleague, probably others feel inscure abt their job.
By simple communication you can make them understand and had to give assurance regarding job security.
Thanks
Pallavi.
From India, Mumbai
It all depends what kind rapport HR has with employees.
Personally I faced same situation, I was told to terminate one of the employee on immdiate effect with out notice period.
What I did is, I told very clearing to that person that it was management and HR decision.
Also i explained the reasons for termination.
And communicated with other employees(formal communication) to make understand on what grounds we had taken decision.
When one employee is terminated, it effects entire company specially his/her colleague, probably others feel inscure abt their job.
By simple communication you can make them understand and had to give assurance regarding job security.
Thanks
Pallavi.
From India, Mumbai
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