I wanted to terminate two of my middle management and one supervisor. As per Sec.2(s) of I.D. Act, 1947 they cannot come under the purview of " workmen". According to me they cannot rise a dispute under Sec. 2(k) of the said act. Now what is the appropriate forum for them that they seek redressal? and what enactments help them to seek redressal? Can they get any remedy for their unwanted terminations? Pl. provide inputs as to what steps I need to do to remove them? It would be very much helpful if all your suggestions supported by appropriate judgments of High courts or the Supreme court.
From India, Chennai
10From India, Chennai
I did not receive any threads for the above problem. Can anyone help in this. Mr. Umakanthan, I need your advice on this.
From India, Chennai
From India, Chennai
Dear Kesava,
You have raised query and quote the provisions of the ID Act, 1947 but then what you have not written is why you want to terminate these persons? What is their misconduct? Are they underperforming?
Have you issued any warning letters earlier? If yes, then do you have records to this effect?
Since they are seniors, you may tell them to put in the papers. However, be cautious on this count also. Terminations are always perceived as bad and it will set forth fear psychosis among other staff members. This will foster employee attrition. Therefore, it is not legal but think from the organisation's culture or management science point of view also.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
You have raised query and quote the provisions of the ID Act, 1947 but then what you have not written is why you want to terminate these persons? What is their misconduct? Are they underperforming?
Have you issued any warning letters earlier? If yes, then do you have records to this effect?
Since they are seniors, you may tell them to put in the papers. However, be cautious on this count also. Terminations are always perceived as bad and it will set forth fear psychosis among other staff members. This will foster employee attrition. Therefore, it is not legal but think from the organisation's culture or management science point of view also.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
In my view still they can seek redress all under Indian Contract Act. Provided they have signed and kept the necessary document.
From India, Delhi
From India, Delhi
Dear KESAV,
I endorse the views of Dinesh which are not only objective in respect of the three cases mentioned but also conducive to the morale of the employees in the long run. There is a saying:" people don't leave organizations but they leave managers". I think the very question has arisen only because of your inherent doubt about the justifiability of the proposed action. In my understanding, the term " middle management " is a misnomer. In fact the profile of middle level managers is actually designed to be a buffer between the sources of authority and responsibility and eventually they get stuck up in the hierarchy for long and hence eventually become ineffective. If you are a unit head or an influential head of HR try to think about other constructive and positive alternatives. Effective problem solving always lies in one's ability to find out as many suitable alternatives as possible. Of course, it is equally true that only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches! They have got Civil remedy for damages if your orders of dismissal is arbitrary,vindictive and against the principles of Natural Justice.
From India, Salem
I endorse the views of Dinesh which are not only objective in respect of the three cases mentioned but also conducive to the morale of the employees in the long run. There is a saying:" people don't leave organizations but they leave managers". I think the very question has arisen only because of your inherent doubt about the justifiability of the proposed action. In my understanding, the term " middle management " is a misnomer. In fact the profile of middle level managers is actually designed to be a buffer between the sources of authority and responsibility and eventually they get stuck up in the hierarchy for long and hence eventually become ineffective. If you are a unit head or an influential head of HR try to think about other constructive and positive alternatives. Effective problem solving always lies in one's ability to find out as many suitable alternatives as possible. Of course, it is equally true that only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches! They have got Civil remedy for damages if your orders of dismissal is arbitrary,vindictive and against the principles of Natural Justice.
From India, Salem
My sincere thanks to all of you, including Mr. Umakanthan, for kind participation.
Mr. Dinesh Divakar,
Your answer did not elicit anything what I have actually needed? I exclusively requested if the non-workmen were terminated and if my termination was not accepted by them, where can they prefer redressal? Mr. Umakanthan has thrown light on it in his last sentence and Mr. Pankaj also thrown some light on it. Therefore, I once again request you to throw some light on it i.e. which is the appropriate forum for them for seeking redressal, keeping in mind that I have not made any procedural violation for termination? Here, pl. don’t give weightage to the procedures or repercussions or remedies. It’s my head ache and I don’t need to worry the later effects on my industry consequent to these terminations. I only need to know what is the appropriate forum or competent court for the non-workmen category which takes their issue on file for examination?
Mr. Pankj saab,
I don’t want to breach my contract at any cost. As per our appointment orders I intend to invoke the appropriate condition of termination and after following due procedure as laid down in principles of natural justice I intend to terminate them. If still you believe that the aggrieved has to invoke the provisions of Indian Contract Act, according to you which is the appropriate court that takes the compliant of the aggrieved on file and under which provision?
Mr. Umakanthan,
It is a general saying that the managers (non-workmen)have to approach the civil court for their redressal. But, I need to know what is the appropriate lower court for them to file their petitions/complaints? Can the court for small causes i.e the Junior civil judge court, who is also the judicial 1st class magistrate for criminal offenses try their cases?or the Administrative tribunals, which are for Govt. employees and PSUs, have any role to play? Pl. confine your reply to any district in the State of Tamilnadu.
Thank you all, once again, for your valuable participation.
From India, Chennai
Mr. Dinesh Divakar,
Your answer did not elicit anything what I have actually needed? I exclusively requested if the non-workmen were terminated and if my termination was not accepted by them, where can they prefer redressal? Mr. Umakanthan has thrown light on it in his last sentence and Mr. Pankaj also thrown some light on it. Therefore, I once again request you to throw some light on it i.e. which is the appropriate forum for them for seeking redressal, keeping in mind that I have not made any procedural violation for termination? Here, pl. don’t give weightage to the procedures or repercussions or remedies. It’s my head ache and I don’t need to worry the later effects on my industry consequent to these terminations. I only need to know what is the appropriate forum or competent court for the non-workmen category which takes their issue on file for examination?
Mr. Pankj saab,
I don’t want to breach my contract at any cost. As per our appointment orders I intend to invoke the appropriate condition of termination and after following due procedure as laid down in principles of natural justice I intend to terminate them. If still you believe that the aggrieved has to invoke the provisions of Indian Contract Act, according to you which is the appropriate court that takes the compliant of the aggrieved on file and under which provision?
Mr. Umakanthan,
It is a general saying that the managers (non-workmen)have to approach the civil court for their redressal. But, I need to know what is the appropriate lower court for them to file their petitions/complaints? Can the court for small causes i.e the Junior civil judge court, who is also the judicial 1st class magistrate for criminal offenses try their cases?or the Administrative tribunals, which are for Govt. employees and PSUs, have any role to play? Pl. confine your reply to any district in the State of Tamilnadu.
Thank you all, once again, for your valuable participation.
From India, Chennai
I don't think mine is a complecated question. The unfortunate thing is I did not receive any answer from any one of the three. I only needed a practical answer, i.e. which is in practice. Kindly throw some light on it.
From India, Chennai
From India, Chennai
Dear Kesav Panda,
Your question can better be answered only by a practicing Civil Lawyer not people like us who have no or little exposure towards litigation in Civil and Criminal Courts. What we can do at best is indicating only the possible action of recourse to premature or unilateral close of a contract. If I were correct District Munsif Court has the original jurisdiction to try such Civil cases.
From India, Salem
Your question can better be answered only by a practicing Civil Lawyer not people like us who have no or little exposure towards litigation in Civil and Criminal Courts. What we can do at best is indicating only the possible action of recourse to premature or unilateral close of a contract. If I were correct District Munsif Court has the original jurisdiction to try such Civil cases.
From India, Salem
Dear Kesav Panda,
If the supervisor and middle level manager is involved in some misconduct then you may order the domestic enquiry. If in the enquiry misconduct is proved then they may be terminated. Gravity of the misconduct will decide the quantum of punishment. Termination is the punishment of the highest order.
Redressal by the aggrieved party: - If the terminated employees feel that principles of natural justice were not followed during their termination then they may file civil suit challenging their termination. Further it is up to court to decide whether the termination was valid or not. Court may uphold the termination or may tell your company to reinstate the employees with payment of back wages. Court verdict could be between these two extremes.
Confusion about the question: - In your first post, you have asked question from both the sides. On the one side it was on process of termination and on the another side it was on remedies available to challenge the termination. You need to take either position and raise a query.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
If the supervisor and middle level manager is involved in some misconduct then you may order the domestic enquiry. If in the enquiry misconduct is proved then they may be terminated. Gravity of the misconduct will decide the quantum of punishment. Termination is the punishment of the highest order.
Redressal by the aggrieved party: - If the terminated employees feel that principles of natural justice were not followed during their termination then they may file civil suit challenging their termination. Further it is up to court to decide whether the termination was valid or not. Court may uphold the termination or may tell your company to reinstate the employees with payment of back wages. Court verdict could be between these two extremes.
Confusion about the question: - In your first post, you have asked question from both the sides. On the one side it was on process of termination and on the another side it was on remedies available to challenge the termination. You need to take either position and raise a query.
Thanks,
Dinesh Divekar
From India, Bangalore
Mr. Divakar..
You are absolutely right. I have asked both the current action as well as the repercussion if the action is instituted. The first one is the action to be taken by me as they have lost confidence. In case if the aggrieved intends to seek redressal where can he prefer the same and who may send notices to appear before him? In your idea which court of civil nature ask me to appear before him?
From India, Chennai
You are absolutely right. I have asked both the current action as well as the repercussion if the action is instituted. The first one is the action to be taken by me as they have lost confidence. In case if the aggrieved intends to seek redressal where can he prefer the same and who may send notices to appear before him? In your idea which court of civil nature ask me to appear before him?
From India, Chennai
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20200320_Adviso ry MinistryOfLabou r-Not To Terminate-Emplo yeesOrReduceWag es.pdf