One ESIC private expert has told me that even Sweeper will be considered as staff so he should also be considered for ESIC/PF. However I met a retired ESIC officer who told me that my payment to a sweeper Rs.4000/pm looks high and may show that he is mainly working for me. I pay Rs. 800 to a female for a small office for which he said that clearly she must be working in many places so she wont be considered as staff.
So i want to know whether part time sweepers count as staff for PF & ESIC.
My staff count is changing every month from 14-18 . If add sweeper then it will increase count to 19 and from 20 onwards PF becomes applicable
From India, Gurgaon
So i want to know whether part time sweepers count as staff for PF & ESIC.
My staff count is changing every month from 14-18 . If add sweeper then it will increase count to 19 and from 20 onwards PF becomes applicable
From India, Gurgaon
Sweepers are employees. It is immaterial that they work for other employers while being employed by you. If you pay fraction of the daily wage proportionate to the working hours, that will qualify for ESI, EPF, Bonus, Gratuity etc. If the employee is a female, she should also be paid maternity leave with wages for the same 26 weeks.
It is true that if the hourly rate multiplied into daily rate and then into monthly rate exceeds Rs 21000, then he/ she could be excluded from the coverage of ESI accepting the notional wages principle. But for counting the number, he/ she should be included. A worker engaged for a single day even for a single hour will be counted as worker employed for that particular day. If on that day, the number of employees exceeds 20, EPF will be applicable to your organisation from that day onwards and that status. ie, a status that yours is a covered establishment, will never change.
From India, Kannur
4244It is true that if the hourly rate multiplied into daily rate and then into monthly rate exceeds Rs 21000, then he/ she could be excluded from the coverage of ESI accepting the notional wages principle. But for counting the number, he/ she should be included. A worker engaged for a single day even for a single hour will be counted as worker employed for that particular day. If on that day, the number of employees exceeds 20, EPF will be applicable to your organisation from that day onwards and that status. ie, a status that yours is a covered establishment, will never change.
From India, Kannur
Got it. I’ve another question, there is another cleaning person working hourly wise but he has ESI as he is bank guard also. Will he be counted as employee for EPF limit of 20?
From India, Gurgaon
From India, Gurgaon
It means plumber/electrician/mason/pesticide sprayer will also become employee with same logic
From India, Gurgaon
From India, Gurgaon
I'm a proprietor and a cleaning person occasionally comes and cleans my offices and I pay hourly wise.
That he is registered in ESIC and also works as security guard with a ATM.
Will he be counted as an employee for EPF purpose as my employee count is already 18.
From India, Gurgaon
That he is registered in ESIC and also works as security guard with a ATM.
Will he be counted as an employee for EPF purpose as my employee count is already 18.
From India, Gurgaon
Let me answer one by one.
Anu000: A cleaning person engaged regularly for an hour will be counted as one employee for the purpose of coverage under EPF even if he is working in a bank/ other establishments for the rest of the hours in the day with ESI or not.
Anonymous: A plumber or electrician will not come under the worker because plumbing and electrical works are not regular work. Of course, if you are running a business of sending plumbers and electricians tp various sites, they will be part of your daily operations. But when you are running a business where the regular business is not plumbing activities, but you engage a plumber/ electrician for maintenance then they will be called 'independent contractors' and as such they will not be counted as part of business for coverage of ESI or EPF. Their names will not appear in your muster rolls also. Though it is still disputed whether payment made to them is treated as labour charges and booked for contribution, employees casually engaged frr any work not connected with the operations of the organisation will not come under the scope of workmen for coverage of labour Acts.
Anu000: The same situation as you have asked above. The security guard in an ATM facility will be counted as an employee if he spends time in your office for cleaning. Office cleaning is connected with the operations of the organisation because it is a regular activity whereas plumbing and electrical work a discussed above is not a regular activity.
From India, Kannur
Anu000: A cleaning person engaged regularly for an hour will be counted as one employee for the purpose of coverage under EPF even if he is working in a bank/ other establishments for the rest of the hours in the day with ESI or not.
Anonymous: A plumber or electrician will not come under the worker because plumbing and electrical works are not regular work. Of course, if you are running a business of sending plumbers and electricians tp various sites, they will be part of your daily operations. But when you are running a business where the regular business is not plumbing activities, but you engage a plumber/ electrician for maintenance then they will be called 'independent contractors' and as such they will not be counted as part of business for coverage of ESI or EPF. Their names will not appear in your muster rolls also. Though it is still disputed whether payment made to them is treated as labour charges and booked for contribution, employees casually engaged frr any work not connected with the operations of the organisation will not come under the scope of workmen for coverage of labour Acts.
Anu000: The same situation as you have asked above. The security guard in an ATM facility will be counted as an employee if he spends time in your office for cleaning. Office cleaning is connected with the operations of the organisation because it is a regular activity whereas plumbing and electrical work a discussed above is not a regular activity.
From India, Kannur
@ Madhu TK
Your above reply
Office cleaning is connected with the operations of the organisation because it is a regular activity whereas plumbing and electrical work a discussed above is not a regular activity.
as per your above information, we have to add the housekeeper in our muster,
if we add him in our roll we have to provide EPF & ESI facility, but if he has already a member of ESIC & EPF in another concern, then how can we remit his PF & ESI in the same UAN & ESI Ins No.
I feel it is a double employment and should not we engage these type of workers.
Am i right or wrong i don't know, Kindly clarify sir.
Thanks & Regards
Pandian P
From India, Madurai
Your above reply
Office cleaning is connected with the operations of the organisation because it is a regular activity whereas plumbing and electrical work a discussed above is not a regular activity.
as per your above information, we have to add the housekeeper in our muster,
if we add him in our roll we have to provide EPF & ESI facility, but if he has already a member of ESIC & EPF in another concern, then how can we remit his PF & ESI in the same UAN & ESI Ins No.
I feel it is a double employment and should not we engage these type of workers.
Am i right or wrong i don't know, Kindly clarify sir.
Thanks & Regards
Pandian P
From India, Madurai
It will not amount to double employment. In such cases, the ESI/ EPF will be paid by one organisation and the other organisation will reimburse the amount paid on its behalf. With online systems in practice, the adjustment is rather difficult now a days. That is why such employments are getting outsourced. There can be a common contractor who will provide service to you and others and they will pay wages, you will pay the invoice raised for the respective time spent along with their ESI, EPF pertaining to it. With this, the problems of creating ESI No or UAN will be solved.
For the purpose of coverage, it is not necessary that the employee concerned should be a coverable employee. For coverage (under EPF or ESI) the total number of employees is taken in to account and even if all the employees are drawing more than Rs 21000, the establishment will be covered. Similarly for coverage of EPF Act what is required is that there should be 20 employees and if you have 18 direct employees and 2 employees engaged through a contractor (for cleaning the office), the establishment will come under EPF. It is immaterial whether the employees will be covered independently because the coverage of independent employees depends on the salary that they get.
From India, Kannur
For the purpose of coverage, it is not necessary that the employee concerned should be a coverable employee. For coverage (under EPF or ESI) the total number of employees is taken in to account and even if all the employees are drawing more than Rs 21000, the establishment will be covered. Similarly for coverage of EPF Act what is required is that there should be 20 employees and if you have 18 direct employees and 2 employees engaged through a contractor (for cleaning the office), the establishment will come under EPF. It is immaterial whether the employees will be covered independently because the coverage of independent employees depends on the salary that they get.
From India, Kannur
Thank you for your response sir, @ Madhu TK,
the ESI/ EPF will be paid by one organisation and the other organisation will reimburse the amount paid on its behalf.
Is the above practice is legal ? and can one get the salary from two companies in a same month ?
please advise.
Thanks
Pandian P
From India, Madurai
the ESI/ EPF will be paid by one organisation and the other organisation will reimburse the amount paid on its behalf.
Is the above practice is legal ? and can one get the salary from two companies in a same month ?
please advise.
Thanks
Pandian P
From India, Madurai
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