Greetings to all Seniors,
I am working with a wellknown construction group as a Sr. Officer HR. I would like to seek your help in a court case we are dealing regarding employee termination having following history.
The employee who is been terminated was working with us as a Sr. Manager Finance for our Pune region. He joined us in 2008 and we found him suitable so his services were confirmed, during his services we also located that he had some behavioural issues like being too much rude with subordinates and juniors, not following some of the admin rules as required. After 1 year his behavioural aspects were seems to be a great headache for COO of Pune office. The Employee had been instructed to change his behaviour with others. After giving him warnings and counselings somehow, we found some positive changes with him but it was not for long period. Same thing was happening again and again. Our COO decided to take this to HR GM, and he was been asked to hand over the counseling letter to the employee addressing to change his behaviour or he would be terminated from his services. The same employee denied to receive the same and also behaved rudely with COO.
After this misconduct incident, the case was gone to top management, and it is been decided to terminate the employee, with immediate effect, and on the same lines a termination letter was issued to the employee for his misbehaviour and miconduct. However, the employee got on his knees and begged to not disclose the reasons of terminations in letter for his secure career his request is been considered on humanity grounds and the termination letter was issued accordingly, company also paid him one months due salary for his working period with other allowance like bonus and leave pays...
After one month, the same employee charged a case against company that , he is been terminated without giving any prior notice and he should been paid for three months notice pay.
Actually, as per the written contract i.e. an appointment letter issued to each employee, it is clearly mentioned that, in case of misconduct or misbehviour the employee will be terminated without any notice pay.
Although considering his financial problems and need of money company paid him one month salary.
Our CMD is been instructed to us, that we will pay him 3 month salary just to keep good will of a company and to avoid the unnecessary chapters of cour tcase being included in company history.
But my COO, dont want to do this, he wanted to fight for it, as he know he is very right at his stand and my GM HR is also associating him for same reason and as do I....because I have eye-witnessed the incidents.
Hence, I want you all experts to help with the suggestions from both aspects....
Thank you ...
Regards,
Chitralekha
SR HR ADM Officer
Nirmal Lifestyle
From India, Pune
2I am working with a wellknown construction group as a Sr. Officer HR. I would like to seek your help in a court case we are dealing regarding employee termination having following history.
The employee who is been terminated was working with us as a Sr. Manager Finance for our Pune region. He joined us in 2008 and we found him suitable so his services were confirmed, during his services we also located that he had some behavioural issues like being too much rude with subordinates and juniors, not following some of the admin rules as required. After 1 year his behavioural aspects were seems to be a great headache for COO of Pune office. The Employee had been instructed to change his behaviour with others. After giving him warnings and counselings somehow, we found some positive changes with him but it was not for long period. Same thing was happening again and again. Our COO decided to take this to HR GM, and he was been asked to hand over the counseling letter to the employee addressing to change his behaviour or he would be terminated from his services. The same employee denied to receive the same and also behaved rudely with COO.
After this misconduct incident, the case was gone to top management, and it is been decided to terminate the employee, with immediate effect, and on the same lines a termination letter was issued to the employee for his misbehaviour and miconduct. However, the employee got on his knees and begged to not disclose the reasons of terminations in letter for his secure career his request is been considered on humanity grounds and the termination letter was issued accordingly, company also paid him one months due salary for his working period with other allowance like bonus and leave pays...
After one month, the same employee charged a case against company that , he is been terminated without giving any prior notice and he should been paid for three months notice pay.
Actually, as per the written contract i.e. an appointment letter issued to each employee, it is clearly mentioned that, in case of misconduct or misbehviour the employee will be terminated without any notice pay.
Although considering his financial problems and need of money company paid him one month salary.
Our CMD is been instructed to us, that we will pay him 3 month salary just to keep good will of a company and to avoid the unnecessary chapters of cour tcase being included in company history.
But my COO, dont want to do this, he wanted to fight for it, as he know he is very right at his stand and my GM HR is also associating him for same reason and as do I....because I have eye-witnessed the incidents.
Hence, I want you all experts to help with the suggestions from both aspects....
Thank you ...
Regards,
Chitralekha
SR HR ADM Officer
Nirmal Lifestyle
From India, Pune
Hi Chitralekha ,
If its clearly mentioned in his appointment letter that in case of misconduct the
employee will be terminated without notice pay then there is NO need to pay
him anything towards the notice pay .
But yes you should have all the required proof and evidences that Misconduct or
Misbehavior took place .That is if he challenges the termination the termination
should be justifiable with all the evidences like memos which you issued him /
witnesses etc .
Regards
Rajeev Dixit
From India, Bangalore
If its clearly mentioned in his appointment letter that in case of misconduct the
employee will be terminated without notice pay then there is NO need to pay
him anything towards the notice pay .
But yes you should have all the required proof and evidences that Misconduct or
Misbehavior took place .That is if he challenges the termination the termination
should be justifiable with all the evidences like memos which you issued him /
witnesses etc .
Regards
Rajeev Dixit
From India, Bangalore
Thank you so much for your Reply Rajiv.Sir..
As far as evidences are concerned, nothing in written is their expect email communications. (which is accepted as an evidence or not is something doubtful)
He had been warned verbally many times, and when the written counseling letter was drafted to hand over to him, he denied to receive it...as I told you.
We are fighting for this case....I hope Truth wins....
Regards,
Chitralekha
From India, Pune
As far as evidences are concerned, nothing in written is their expect email communications. (which is accepted as an evidence or not is something doubtful)
He had been warned verbally many times, and when the written counseling letter was drafted to hand over to him, he denied to receive it...as I told you.
We are fighting for this case....I hope Truth wins....
Regards,
Chitralekha
From India, Pune
Dear Govind Sir,
Wish you belated happy lohri....
First of all thank you so much for putting your efforts for contributing your valuable suggestions...
Yes, you are right, his notice period in Appointment letter was of 3 months. But as I mentioned it is also mentioned in Appt Letter that if termination is due to misconduct then no pay will be paid...
I am very much agree with your suggestions which are definitely gonna help me in future... even the point of Chargesheet is also clearly acceptable. But here in our office, it was the first case, we were facing. And my seniors didn't want to act harshly on the matter,so again, we were mistaken to handover a chargesheet to him. And as you mentioned that counseling letter not sent to employees resi address....But my COO informed top management and GM HR on the same day through email, that the employee has denied to accept it....
We have drawn printouts of all the email communications related to above issue, and hopefully if court will accept it as proof then the matter may solve easily.
Thank you
With Warm Regards,
Chitralekha
From India, Pune
Wish you belated happy lohri....
First of all thank you so much for putting your efforts for contributing your valuable suggestions...
Yes, you are right, his notice period in Appointment letter was of 3 months. But as I mentioned it is also mentioned in Appt Letter that if termination is due to misconduct then no pay will be paid...
I am very much agree with your suggestions which are definitely gonna help me in future... even the point of Chargesheet is also clearly acceptable. But here in our office, it was the first case, we were facing. And my seniors didn't want to act harshly on the matter,so again, we were mistaken to handover a chargesheet to him. And as you mentioned that counseling letter not sent to employees resi address....But my COO informed top management and GM HR on the same day through email, that the employee has denied to accept it....
We have drawn printouts of all the email communications related to above issue, and hopefully if court will accept it as proof then the matter may solve easily.
Thank you
With Warm Regards,
Chitralekha
From India, Pune
Employee has filed case where?
Donot fall prey to unjustified demand of errant employee. State facts as they were......Fight in court of law if he persists. I donot think he will persist.
Alternatively Find out about his current job..........
[QUOTE=Chitra Upadhye;2013870]Greetings to all Seniors,
After one month, the same employee charged a case against company that , he is been terminated without giving any prior notice and he should been paid for three months notice pay.
From India, Delhi
Donot fall prey to unjustified demand of errant employee. State facts as they were......Fight in court of law if he persists. I donot think he will persist.
Alternatively Find out about his current job..........
[QUOTE=Chitra Upadhye;2013870]Greetings to all Seniors,
After one month, the same employee charged a case against company that , he is been terminated without giving any prior notice and he should been paid for three months notice pay.
From India, Delhi
Hi Chitra,
Firstly, i think it was the right decision to terminate such kind of employee rather than having them on board.... and also when you have this point mention in appointment letter which says that if termination is due to misconduct then no pay will be paid.. then its a very strong point your legal team will support you to this...
And if any proof of counselling which was provided to him is there, then it will be added advantage to win the case... and your employees who ahve actually seen his rude behavior can provide well support to close this case.... Nothing to worry i guess your team will win.
Regards,
Chanchal.
From India, Thana
Firstly, i think it was the right decision to terminate such kind of employee rather than having them on board.... and also when you have this point mention in appointment letter which says that if termination is due to misconduct then no pay will be paid.. then its a very strong point your legal team will support you to this...
And if any proof of counselling which was provided to him is there, then it will be added advantage to win the case... and your employees who ahve actually seen his rude behavior can provide well support to close this case.... Nothing to worry i guess your team will win.
Regards,
Chanchal.
From India, Thana
Dear Chitra
He is management employee of the company, if he wants to file a case against the company he will have to do so under Contract Act which comes under the purview of civil court.
Sent a detailed reply to his legal letter. Also send a legal letter for threatening to defame the name of company.
I really fail to understand how come company like Nirmal Life style cant afford a good lawyer to answer such queries of legal nature, and why have you raised a question of such sensitive nature on public forum, along with your company name?
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
He is management employee of the company, if he wants to file a case against the company he will have to do so under Contract Act which comes under the purview of civil court.
Sent a detailed reply to his legal letter. Also send a legal letter for threatening to defame the name of company.
I really fail to understand how come company like Nirmal Life style cant afford a good lawyer to answer such queries of legal nature, and why have you raised a question of such sensitive nature on public forum, along with your company name?
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
Hai CHITRA LEKHA,
THIS IS BASHA FROM HYDERABAD,I SUPPORT YOUR COO DECISION TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT EMPLOYEE AS HE WAS MISBEHAVING WITH OTHER STAFF.YOU HAVE PROVED THAT ALL EMPLOYEES ARE EQUAL AS FAR AS DISCIPLINE CONCERNED. YOU TAKE SOME EMPLOYEE TO CONCERNED COURT AS A EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT WHAT HE HAS DONE. SAY TO THE COURT YOU BROUGHT HIM BECAUSE AS YOU DONT HAVE ANY WRITTEN EVIDENCE SINCE HE HAS REFUSED TO RECEIVE ANY LETTER FROM YOU AND SAY ALSO YOU HAVE NOT MENTIONED THE REASON OF TERMINATION BECAUSE HIS REQUESTED YOU.
BE CAREFUL IN FUTURE
M.MAHABOOB BASHA
MANAGER-H R
PRIME HOSPITALS
From India, Hyderabad
THIS IS BASHA FROM HYDERABAD,I SUPPORT YOUR COO DECISION TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT EMPLOYEE AS HE WAS MISBEHAVING WITH OTHER STAFF.YOU HAVE PROVED THAT ALL EMPLOYEES ARE EQUAL AS FAR AS DISCIPLINE CONCERNED. YOU TAKE SOME EMPLOYEE TO CONCERNED COURT AS A EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT WHAT HE HAS DONE. SAY TO THE COURT YOU BROUGHT HIM BECAUSE AS YOU DONT HAVE ANY WRITTEN EVIDENCE SINCE HE HAS REFUSED TO RECEIVE ANY LETTER FROM YOU AND SAY ALSO YOU HAVE NOT MENTIONED THE REASON OF TERMINATION BECAUSE HIS REQUESTED YOU.
BE CAREFUL IN FUTURE
M.MAHABOOB BASHA
MANAGER-H R
PRIME HOSPITALS
From India, Hyderabad
hi Chtralekha,
The mistake that can be considered in this case is taking his request of not disclose the reason of termination and consider him on humanity grounds.
We as an HR can not be kind towards such type of person. As it is clearly mentioned in the appointment letter that in case of misconduct and misbehavior an employee can be terminated without any notice pay but because of his request of not sharing the issue to anybody if you haven't mentioned the above said reason of termination in the termination letter then I think you can't do any thing.
You should have mentioned the correct reason in the termination letter.
You have to prepare strong evidence and witnesses.
From India, Gurgaon
The mistake that can be considered in this case is taking his request of not disclose the reason of termination and consider him on humanity grounds.
We as an HR can not be kind towards such type of person. As it is clearly mentioned in the appointment letter that in case of misconduct and misbehavior an employee can be terminated without any notice pay but because of his request of not sharing the issue to anybody if you haven't mentioned the above said reason of termination in the termination letter then I think you can't do any thing.
You should have mentioned the correct reason in the termination letter.
You have to prepare strong evidence and witnesses.
From India, Gurgaon
Hi Chitra,
I am very much agreeing to what Octavious has replied. Why are you discussing this issue on a public forum and also with your COMPANY NAME..??
I don't think you need to play any role in this..?? I would suggest not to disclose such confidential issues on such Public Forums and let your Top Management solve this issue. I can understand that there can be a chance for your information you maybe asking so, but disclosing company's name is not right way to post for your knowledge.
This way your are somewhere spoiling your Company's goodwill on Public forum.
Thanks & Regards,
Priyanka Vinda
Sr. Manager - HR
From India, Ahmadabad
I am very much agreeing to what Octavious has replied. Why are you discussing this issue on a public forum and also with your COMPANY NAME..??
I don't think you need to play any role in this..?? I would suggest not to disclose such confidential issues on such Public Forums and let your Top Management solve this issue. I can understand that there can be a chance for your information you maybe asking so, but disclosing company's name is not right way to post for your knowledge.
This way your are somewhere spoiling your Company's goodwill on Public forum.
Thanks & Regards,
Priyanka Vinda
Sr. Manager - HR
From India, Ahmadabad
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