Hi,
A difficult question, but many around keep asking this. I know people who are college drop-out by choice or due to situation. They have years of experience, in some cases 20+ years of domain expertise in HR, Accounting & Finance, Construction, Marketing, etc etc. But they do not have a bachelors degree. They have learned a lot during the struggle and are exceptionally good in what they do. A lot of freshers with little experience admire them too. Now, the real Q is what value such non-degree holders have today in corproate India? Are they considered valuable assets because they have rich experience? or are they just not looked at because they do not have a bachelors? Please comment.
Many Thanks
AMJAD LALA
From Saudi Arabia
1A difficult question, but many around keep asking this. I know people who are college drop-out by choice or due to situation. They have years of experience, in some cases 20+ years of domain expertise in HR, Accounting & Finance, Construction, Marketing, etc etc. But they do not have a bachelors degree. They have learned a lot during the struggle and are exceptionally good in what they do. A lot of freshers with little experience admire them too. Now, the real Q is what value such non-degree holders have today in corproate India? Are they considered valuable assets because they have rich experience? or are they just not looked at because they do not have a bachelors? Please comment.
Many Thanks
AMJAD LALA
From Saudi Arabia
Well 1st of its a wonderful Q. 2ndly Exp. does matters but upto a certain level at one point one has to have it in writing. Eg. a person has 10years of exp. in HRM or anything but he dont have a certi. staing the same, he wont be entertained the same as compared to the one who hold the certi. So the bottom line is no doubt those people are kind of asset however holding a degree does matters.
Regards,
Firoz Mogal.
From India, Surat
Regards,
Firoz Mogal.
From India, Surat
Dear friend,
I want to share one example for clarifying my view. One of the LTD group in Pune, who's GM HR is having 25+ years of experience as HR & Admin. I have worked over their only for 20 days. I was getting very bad experience in working with them. They do not have HR Policies, not following basic value & ethics. GM HR is not able to understand, what should be profile for HR person. Exa., he added sales profile with HR profile. After my release he has handover HR profile to sales person. They do not have clarity of each one's job profile. Any person can do any type of work. So, even if person gain experience in any field, he will gain experience & work as per his choice, but will not understand basics of his role. He will not work as professional trained person. Seniors, pls. correct me if I'm wrong.
From United States
I want to share one example for clarifying my view. One of the LTD group in Pune, who's GM HR is having 25+ years of experience as HR & Admin. I have worked over their only for 20 days. I was getting very bad experience in working with them. They do not have HR Policies, not following basic value & ethics. GM HR is not able to understand, what should be profile for HR person. Exa., he added sales profile with HR profile. After my release he has handover HR profile to sales person. They do not have clarity of each one's job profile. Any person can do any type of work. So, even if person gain experience in any field, he will gain experience & work as per his choice, but will not understand basics of his role. He will not work as professional trained person. Seniors, pls. correct me if I'm wrong.
From United States
A mason has more construction knowledge than a Engr. can we treat the mason at par with Engr? Qualification is foremost coupled with experience. Pon
From India, Lucknow
From India, Lucknow
Hello AMJAD LALA,
Frankly, I am not sure if your question can be termed as a 'difficult' one.......but it definitely is a very interesting & apt one.
The responses of Firoz Mogal, Satish Parimal & Pon basically point out to one basic/fundamental aspect.
Let's take the example that Pon mentioned--of a Mason.
The Mason knows that when he has to construct a house in a particular fashion/way, he has to FOLLOW CERTAIN STEPS--by virtue of his long experience in which he has observed others do it THAT WAY. But he wouldn't & can't know WHY he has to build the house THAT WAY & not any other way, if at all--meaning the 'Knowledge' aspect would be missing from his work [by 'knowledge', what I mean in such situations/context is the 'conceptual knowledge' & NOT the knowledge gained by observation/practice]. If there is slight variation in the house plan/elevation, he would be confused or unable to handle the task--UNLESS HE HAS SEEN IT BEING DONE EARLIER.
EDUCATION IS WHAT GIVES THE "CONCEPTUAL KNOWLEDGE/DEPTH" TO THE INDIVIDUAL [assuming he/she has genuinely learnt during the education process]. This gives the individual the knowledge of "WHY" of whatever he/she is doing. Once that knowledge is known, he/she automatically gets the ABILITY to handle variations of any situation that the profession brings along the way.
The same applies to virtually every & any field. Another typical & notable example would be that of a Doctor & his unqualified Assistant.
Hope I have brought clarity to your query & haven't confused things :-)
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Frankly, I am not sure if your question can be termed as a 'difficult' one.......but it definitely is a very interesting & apt one.
The responses of Firoz Mogal, Satish Parimal & Pon basically point out to one basic/fundamental aspect.
Let's take the example that Pon mentioned--of a Mason.
The Mason knows that when he has to construct a house in a particular fashion/way, he has to FOLLOW CERTAIN STEPS--by virtue of his long experience in which he has observed others do it THAT WAY. But he wouldn't & can't know WHY he has to build the house THAT WAY & not any other way, if at all--meaning the 'Knowledge' aspect would be missing from his work [by 'knowledge', what I mean in such situations/context is the 'conceptual knowledge' & NOT the knowledge gained by observation/practice]. If there is slight variation in the house plan/elevation, he would be confused or unable to handle the task--UNLESS HE HAS SEEN IT BEING DONE EARLIER.
EDUCATION IS WHAT GIVES THE "CONCEPTUAL KNOWLEDGE/DEPTH" TO THE INDIVIDUAL [assuming he/she has genuinely learnt during the education process]. This gives the individual the knowledge of "WHY" of whatever he/she is doing. Once that knowledge is known, he/she automatically gets the ABILITY to handle variations of any situation that the profession brings along the way.
The same applies to virtually every & any field. Another typical & notable example would be that of a Doctor & his unqualified Assistant.
Hope I have brought clarity to your query & haven't confused things :-)
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear TS,
Imagine a college drop-out want to learn accounting and takes private tution and then joins a company as accounts assistant. After few years he gets very good in his job as an accountant and gets promoted as accountant or senior accountant. Though he has no bachelors degree in accounting but he has very good knowledge of accounts and experience working in a real time enviroment. What would be your opinion about this case? He is not a mason. Internet had made learning much easier, training institutes are flourishing everywhere, an average smart person will little knowledge of computers can learn a lot by going taking small courses. I hope u agree with this.
Mason's story is not applicable to all professionals. I personally know a lot of IT guys who are way too better than guys who have done their MCA. I know extremely good web developers and programmers who had singled handedly completed many big e-commerce websites. They are not grads. Likewise i know designers with no formal degree, but they know more and are way too smarter and better designers when compared to guys coming with formal degrees.
From Saudi Arabia
Imagine a college drop-out want to learn accounting and takes private tution and then joins a company as accounts assistant. After few years he gets very good in his job as an accountant and gets promoted as accountant or senior accountant. Though he has no bachelors degree in accounting but he has very good knowledge of accounts and experience working in a real time enviroment. What would be your opinion about this case? He is not a mason. Internet had made learning much easier, training institutes are flourishing everywhere, an average smart person will little knowledge of computers can learn a lot by going taking small courses. I hope u agree with this.
Mason's story is not applicable to all professionals. I personally know a lot of IT guys who are way too better than guys who have done their MCA. I know extremely good web developers and programmers who had singled handedly completed many big e-commerce websites. They are not grads. Likewise i know designers with no formal degree, but they know more and are way too smarter and better designers when compared to guys coming with formal degrees.
From Saudi Arabia
Hello AMJAD LALA,
I think you have missed the point.
Pl re-read what I mentioned in my earlier response:"assuming he/she has genuinely learnt during the education process". IT'S NOT which degree one has got, but WHAT ONE HAS LEARNT IN THE EDUCATION PROCESS--the Degree is only CONSEQUENTIAL. So in effect, the focus IS [and HAS TO BE] invariably on the knowledge-base acquired AND NOT on WHAT degree or HOW [thru a Regular college or Part-time or Correspondence course] it was acquired.
To elaborate, if everyone who has a B.Com degree [to take your example] ought to be at the SAME LEVEL of knowledge-base, why do 2 persons with the same degree draw different salaries OR able to handle different responsibilities OR have different levels of efficiency? I am sure you would have noticed such situations. Or looking at this aspect from a different perspective, a person who passed BCom with Distinction COULD BE INFERIOR in handling the real-time accounting than a person who passed with, let's say 50%--it just means the former just 'studied' & acquired a BCom degree, while the later didn't just study--he/she 'learnt' the subject during the education process.
The same applies to any profession, including the Mason/Supervisor, etc.
Hope that makes things more clearer.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
I think you have missed the point.
Pl re-read what I mentioned in my earlier response:"assuming he/she has genuinely learnt during the education process". IT'S NOT which degree one has got, but WHAT ONE HAS LEARNT IN THE EDUCATION PROCESS--the Degree is only CONSEQUENTIAL. So in effect, the focus IS [and HAS TO BE] invariably on the knowledge-base acquired AND NOT on WHAT degree or HOW [thru a Regular college or Part-time or Correspondence course] it was acquired.
To elaborate, if everyone who has a B.Com degree [to take your example] ought to be at the SAME LEVEL of knowledge-base, why do 2 persons with the same degree draw different salaries OR able to handle different responsibilities OR have different levels of efficiency? I am sure you would have noticed such situations. Or looking at this aspect from a different perspective, a person who passed BCom with Distinction COULD BE INFERIOR in handling the real-time accounting than a person who passed with, let's say 50%--it just means the former just 'studied' & acquired a BCom degree, while the later didn't just study--he/she 'learnt' the subject during the education process.
The same applies to any profession, including the Mason/Supervisor, etc.
Hope that makes things more clearer.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Dear TS,
You have a point there and i dont disagree. My Q is about guys with knowledge+experience, but NO degree. If you are to hire an accoutant and you have 2 candidates. One with Degree+2 yrs experiece and the other NO degree+10 yrs experience. Whom would you hire?
In India, we see thousands of people around with NO degrees but they are too good in what ever they do. What i would like to know is "do you or corporate india consider such candidates as valuable"? I know few guys whose application was turned down just because they do not have bachelors, but they have tons of knowledge & experience and they are exceptionally gud in their profession.
From Saudi Arabia
You have a point there and i dont disagree. My Q is about guys with knowledge+experience, but NO degree. If you are to hire an accoutant and you have 2 candidates. One with Degree+2 yrs experiece and the other NO degree+10 yrs experience. Whom would you hire?
In India, we see thousands of people around with NO degrees but they are too good in what ever they do. What i would like to know is "do you or corporate india consider such candidates as valuable"? I know few guys whose application was turned down just because they do not have bachelors, but they have tons of knowledge & experience and they are exceptionally gud in their profession.
From Saudi Arabia
Hello AMJAD LALA,
To answer your query, here is my response.
My REFERENCE POINT for Hiring WILL NOT be the qualifications--or the lack of them--of the candidates. The Reference Point I would apply--in general--will be the DEMANDS OF THE JOB under consideration.
To take the same example which you used--Accounts/Accountant: if the job is something that involves activity that is routine & stable with not much of variations in either the role or the intricacies of the job [for eg., entering the accounts using some S/W, preparing the balance sheets, etc], I would unhesitatingly assign qualifications a second priority--if a lesser qualified person can handle the contents of the job @ hand, why hire a higher qualified person for it--in the process expending higher CTC?
But if the job demands a lot of thinking across--let's say--currencies, time-zones, domains, etc--then I would prefer a suitably qualified person.
So it all depends on the context/situation that ought to decide the weightage/priority we assign to each of the deciding parameters. Because, at the end of the day, it's the WHAT, WHY, HOW & WHEN the job was done--NOT 'WHO' did it.
Hope you get the point.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
To answer your query, here is my response.
My REFERENCE POINT for Hiring WILL NOT be the qualifications--or the lack of them--of the candidates. The Reference Point I would apply--in general--will be the DEMANDS OF THE JOB under consideration.
To take the same example which you used--Accounts/Accountant: if the job is something that involves activity that is routine & stable with not much of variations in either the role or the intricacies of the job [for eg., entering the accounts using some S/W, preparing the balance sheets, etc], I would unhesitatingly assign qualifications a second priority--if a lesser qualified person can handle the contents of the job @ hand, why hire a higher qualified person for it--in the process expending higher CTC?
But if the job demands a lot of thinking across--let's say--currencies, time-zones, domains, etc--then I would prefer a suitably qualified person.
So it all depends on the context/situation that ought to decide the weightage/priority we assign to each of the deciding parameters. Because, at the end of the day, it's the WHAT, WHY, HOW & WHEN the job was done--NOT 'WHO' did it.
Hope you get the point.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Amjad, TS, Firoz, and Pon,
Interesting insight into this topic.....I'd like to add a twist to this Q, does a degree of any kind matter today which was done 12 - 15 years ago? To expand my Q....If I had... lets say a HR person, excellent in his choosen field with proven varied experience and knowledge but no Bachelor's, would you hire him or would you hire a person with a degree with the same or less experience profile and who you feel does not somehow fit the company's profile / culture?
Knwoing the speed at which knowledge and sharing within professional groupstake place, is a degree done 10 - 15 years ago redundant in today's age?
Like to have your views on this
Rgds,
From Oman, Muscat
Interesting insight into this topic.....I'd like to add a twist to this Q, does a degree of any kind matter today which was done 12 - 15 years ago? To expand my Q....If I had... lets say a HR person, excellent in his choosen field with proven varied experience and knowledge but no Bachelor's, would you hire him or would you hire a person with a degree with the same or less experience profile and who you feel does not somehow fit the company's profile / culture?
Knwoing the speed at which knowledge and sharing within professional groupstake place, is a degree done 10 - 15 years ago redundant in today's age?
Like to have your views on this
Rgds,
From Oman, Muscat
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