Hi, buddies.
In the companies where I have worked, leaving employees are treated fairly, and settlements are made on time because it is well understood that "leaving employees are the best ambassadors of the company." Therefore, this largely depends on the HR department that is operating within the company.
Moreover, in most companies, for Full and Final (F&F) settlements, only the clearance certificate is provided by the HR department to Finance. Subsequently, the F&F cheque is sent to the resigned employee solely by the Finance Department. The HR personnel responsible for overseeing the separation process can expedite the process by closely following up with the finance department.
To address this issue, we can gather feedback from former employees on the Separation/F&F settlement processes through a questionnaire via email and take any necessary corrective actions.
As emphasized by fellow HR professionals, HR should take a leading role in this matter.
Thanks and regards,
Kalyan R
From India, Madras
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13In the companies where I have worked, leaving employees are treated fairly, and settlements are made on time because it is well understood that "leaving employees are the best ambassadors of the company." Therefore, this largely depends on the HR department that is operating within the company.
Moreover, in most companies, for Full and Final (F&F) settlements, only the clearance certificate is provided by the HR department to Finance. Subsequently, the F&F cheque is sent to the resigned employee solely by the Finance Department. The HR personnel responsible for overseeing the separation process can expedite the process by closely following up with the finance department.
To address this issue, we can gather feedback from former employees on the Separation/F&F settlement processes through a questionnaire via email and take any necessary corrective actions.
As emphasized by fellow HR professionals, HR should take a leading role in this matter.
Thanks and regards,
Kalyan R
From India, Madras
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Hi,
It's really good to see such a useful conversation where everyone has a new point to add. I do agree with Archana, but I would also like to say that it's not always between HR and finance, but sometimes within HR. I have seen cases within a company where if HR has a good rapport with the employee, their Full and Final (F&F) settlement was done on time. However, if the HR relationship is like any other employee, it took more than a month, and in some cases, it was actually more than 2 months. I was surprised and unable to understand why this variation exists. What would HR gain by delaying the F&F settlement? One day, they would also leave the organization. Why don't they think that their juniors would learn from them and follow the same culture?
Guys, it's not just for namesake that I shared my opinion; it really happened. As an HR professional, I was asked by another HR in the same department why this is so. By delaying the work, the Senior HR is not only delaying the work but also being criticized by people in their own department.
Regards,
Javaji
From India, Hyderabad
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It's really good to see such a useful conversation where everyone has a new point to add. I do agree with Archana, but I would also like to say that it's not always between HR and finance, but sometimes within HR. I have seen cases within a company where if HR has a good rapport with the employee, their Full and Final (F&F) settlement was done on time. However, if the HR relationship is like any other employee, it took more than a month, and in some cases, it was actually more than 2 months. I was surprised and unable to understand why this variation exists. What would HR gain by delaying the F&F settlement? One day, they would also leave the organization. Why don't they think that their juniors would learn from them and follow the same culture?
Guys, it's not just for namesake that I shared my opinion; it really happened. As an HR professional, I was asked by another HR in the same department why this is so. By delaying the work, the Senior HR is not only delaying the work but also being criticized by people in their own department.
Regards,
Javaji
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear All,
Though we are HR professionals, we are also employees. And as employees, what do we expect if we leave the organization? Simple - clearance of all dues and payment on the day we leave.
Similarly, we should be sensible enough to expedite the process and ensure that the departing employee receives all their dues (apart from PF/Gratuity, etc.) on the day they leave, or at least within 2-3 days of their departure.
Objectivity and fairness in the processes are the prime responsibilities of HR, and in any case, we need to put forth all our efforts.
The outgoing employee should leave the organization with happiness and a positive response, as they will be the ambassadors of the organization they are leaving.
I remember, in one of my previous employments, we were even considering sending the company's quarterly news magazine to former employees' residences so they could feel proud of the organization they worked for and could always share positive things about the company.
Regarding the influence of other personalities in the organization, except for some genuinely valid technical reasons, HR should be strong enough to prevent unwanted influence for baseless reasons.
Jayesh Naik
From India, Vadodara
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Though we are HR professionals, we are also employees. And as employees, what do we expect if we leave the organization? Simple - clearance of all dues and payment on the day we leave.
Similarly, we should be sensible enough to expedite the process and ensure that the departing employee receives all their dues (apart from PF/Gratuity, etc.) on the day they leave, or at least within 2-3 days of their departure.
Objectivity and fairness in the processes are the prime responsibilities of HR, and in any case, we need to put forth all our efforts.
The outgoing employee should leave the organization with happiness and a positive response, as they will be the ambassadors of the organization they are leaving.
I remember, in one of my previous employments, we were even considering sending the company's quarterly news magazine to former employees' residences so they could feel proud of the organization they worked for and could always share positive things about the company.
Regarding the influence of other personalities in the organization, except for some genuinely valid technical reasons, HR should be strong enough to prevent unwanted influence for baseless reasons.
Jayesh Naik
From India, Vadodara
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Cos Clearing dues is also one of the tasks.
I think there should be a proper system with defined TATs/deadlines and also commitment to do the task wholeheartedly.
It's harsh, rude, and cheap, but it's the truth that most of the time not just the HRs but even other entities in the organization develop some kind of bias or lethargic attitude towards the employee, which should not be happening!
I feel people should develop a feeling of working for the business because each process contributes to the growth of the business in so many ways!
HRs and the management of the organization should never forget that people carry their experiences and memories, and the feeling of how you made them feel.
From India, Mumbai
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I think there should be a proper system with defined TATs/deadlines and also commitment to do the task wholeheartedly.
It's harsh, rude, and cheap, but it's the truth that most of the time not just the HRs but even other entities in the organization develop some kind of bias or lethargic attitude towards the employee, which should not be happening!
I feel people should develop a feeling of working for the business because each process contributes to the growth of the business in so many ways!
HRs and the management of the organization should never forget that people carry their experiences and memories, and the feeling of how you made them feel.
From India, Mumbai
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Hi Friends!
I hope the original post is read as a case/incident specific to an organization or unit of organization or individuals, and that the content of the post will not be generalized.
There are black pages (unethical/unexpected attitude) in the medical profession, legal profession, and even in armed forces. Someone has tried to show that HR too has such individuals. I agree that there are some individuals in HR who fail to give priority to clearing the dues of employees who exit. But it cannot be generalized.
While I have experienced both sides, once I was handed over my cheque at 5.30 pm on the last day of my employment at one organization, and in the second case, I had to wait for 6 months without any reason. In our organization, we treat the F & F on a priority basis and clear them at the earliest. Here, I must add that there is a sharp decline in the number of employees leaving smoothly. Some just quit without intimating, some put in their papers and just vanish without serving notice pay. Most organizations follow the practice of NO DUE CERTIFICATE for clearing the F & F, which nowadays is becoming a problem. You all will agree that the accounts section will not release payment without a No Due Certificate.
As far as Ravi's views are concerned, he has had great success in getting amazing attention by showing the negative side of HR all the time. :) No surprises after going through Ravi's post.
- Hiten Parekh
From India, New Delhi
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I hope the original post is read as a case/incident specific to an organization or unit of organization or individuals, and that the content of the post will not be generalized.
There are black pages (unethical/unexpected attitude) in the medical profession, legal profession, and even in armed forces. Someone has tried to show that HR too has such individuals. I agree that there are some individuals in HR who fail to give priority to clearing the dues of employees who exit. But it cannot be generalized.
While I have experienced both sides, once I was handed over my cheque at 5.30 pm on the last day of my employment at one organization, and in the second case, I had to wait for 6 months without any reason. In our organization, we treat the F & F on a priority basis and clear them at the earliest. Here, I must add that there is a sharp decline in the number of employees leaving smoothly. Some just quit without intimating, some put in their papers and just vanish without serving notice pay. Most organizations follow the practice of NO DUE CERTIFICATE for clearing the F & F, which nowadays is becoming a problem. You all will agree that the accounts section will not release payment without a No Due Certificate.
As far as Ravi's views are concerned, he has had great success in getting amazing attention by showing the negative side of HR all the time. :) No surprises after going through Ravi's post.
- Hiten Parekh
From India, New Delhi
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Dear All,
Very interesting topic. I have been going through all the views from various people. I would like to share a few things on this topic. First of all, everyone should understand that HR is also a part of the organization (though it is an important one) and it has to depend on other departments for certain processes. Sometimes work may be delayed due to other departmental workload or other reasons.
Of course, every profession will have truly lethargic individuals who can spoil the whole profession. If anybody has had bad experiences with such people, please blame the individual, not the profession. Finally, as far as this topic is concerned, HR's response depends on the way employees exit from the organization.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards, Anil
From India, Hyderabad
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Very interesting topic. I have been going through all the views from various people. I would like to share a few things on this topic. First of all, everyone should understand that HR is also a part of the organization (though it is an important one) and it has to depend on other departments for certain processes. Sometimes work may be delayed due to other departmental workload or other reasons.
Of course, every profession will have truly lethargic individuals who can spoil the whole profession. If anybody has had bad experiences with such people, please blame the individual, not the profession. Finally, as far as this topic is concerned, HR's response depends on the way employees exit from the organization.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards, Anil
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear friend,
I agree with you that all left employees are your future prospects. We must treat them very politely and sophisticatedly so that employees think that the HR department is much better compared to new organizations. In the end, it's all about your behavior and attitude that is being counted.
From India, Bangalore
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I agree with you that all left employees are your future prospects. We must treat them very politely and sophisticatedly so that employees think that the HR department is much better compared to new organizations. In the end, it's all about your behavior and attitude that is being counted.
From India, Bangalore
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Hi,
After seeing the views of many people on this issue, I would say that sometimes we do come across such situations where the employee informs and leaves the company. In those cases, we are polite with them because they have given time to hand over all the work. However, if an employee comes and says within a day or two that they need to be relieved, then I think the management or the HR department does not see it as a good sign. This is where the employee may feel that the HR department is acting in a weird manner. But one must also consider the position of the company, especially if the employee is leaving the project midway. Otherwise, I don't see HR behaving badly with any employee.
HR is the support for all employees; everyone comes to it looking for help. We handle everything from A to Z for employees. I hope employees understand that HR is there for them and cooperate with HR. I have witnessed many employees leaving projects midway without informing or giving the notice period. In such cases, we have not provided them with an experience letter or settlement; instead, we have taken legal action against them. On the other hand, those who inform us and leave, we have never ill-treated them. The management also cooperates. The key lies in how you communicate with the management about the reasons for an employee leaving and their association with the job.
Regards,
Sadhana
From India, Delhi
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After seeing the views of many people on this issue, I would say that sometimes we do come across such situations where the employee informs and leaves the company. In those cases, we are polite with them because they have given time to hand over all the work. However, if an employee comes and says within a day or two that they need to be relieved, then I think the management or the HR department does not see it as a good sign. This is where the employee may feel that the HR department is acting in a weird manner. But one must also consider the position of the company, especially if the employee is leaving the project midway. Otherwise, I don't see HR behaving badly with any employee.
HR is the support for all employees; everyone comes to it looking for help. We handle everything from A to Z for employees. I hope employees understand that HR is there for them and cooperate with HR. I have witnessed many employees leaving projects midway without informing or giving the notice period. In such cases, we have not provided them with an experience letter or settlement; instead, we have taken legal action against them. On the other hand, those who inform us and leave, we have never ill-treated them. The management also cooperates. The key lies in how you communicate with the management about the reasons for an employee leaving and their association with the job.
Regards,
Sadhana
From India, Delhi
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Dear Ravi,
Hi, I was going through this session. It seems you had a bad experience with HR before, but it does not always happen. Since I am a Sr. Executive HR who is taking care of full and final employee separation formalities. We, being in HR, understand the importance that whenever any employee leaves, he or she expects that his or her clearance formalities are done smoothly. Delays happen due to various reasons:
1) If the person has not paid the notice period and his F&F comes as negative, we wait for the gratuity amount to come if he has completed five years or more.
2) Sometimes, they do not submit the Medical LTA bills on time. We follow up regularly even if the employee has left, asking for their bills. Even if we submit the F&F statement in accounts, they, in turn, have certain obligations that without proper supporting documents, they will not process further.
3) Sometimes, we even deposit their cheques in their personal accounts.
4) Sometimes, the delay occurs both from IT and the employees themselves as at the time of leaving, they do not provide the supporting documents for calculating their IT. We also believe that if they provide the relevant documents, their maximum tax amount can be saved.
There are many reasons for the delay in their payments. However, being in HR, we should be sensible in terms of ensuring that when any person leaves the organization, they should not leave on a bad note, and we should try to smoothen the process as fast as we can.
Regarding the additional text provided by Gopi:
Its been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I updated many things. Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per company policy, he is supposed to get his F&F by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received an email from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not doing their duty, which really hurt me. After the email, I followed up again with the HROps team and came to know that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
After this incident, I updated our location leader and expressed my unhappiness about the incident. This incident led to a discussion of HR behavior towards outgoing or former employees. It seems that when an employee wants to quit the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them in every way possible. But if the same employee is stubborn about leaving the company, the attitude of HR changes drastically, and they behave very harshly towards them.
They do not even bother to pay them on time and take their own sweet time to complete the work, assuming that the employee would not follow up. I supported his point and here, try to supplement what he noted. From my experience, I have seen the same lethargy from my executives who did not even show any interest in closing this.
When an employee gives his resignation, we do everything to keep them, but why do we not bother about their settlements when they leave the company? I would like to remind you that when we spend lots of money to attract an employee, why are we making them so unhappy when they leave the company?
I hope everyone in the forum accepts that all former employees are future prospects of our company. When we want candidates to attend interviews happily and want our employees to be content in the company, why do we not care about employees' happy exits?
If an employee leaves happily with HR, whatever the reason for the exit may be, I am sure he would come back to our company without any second thoughts if HR employees are good. This would also reduce a lot of recruitment costs.
I kindly request the HR team to treat outgoing employees with a more humane approach.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Gopi.K
9952414092
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Hi, I was going through this session. It seems you had a bad experience with HR before, but it does not always happen. Since I am a Sr. Executive HR who is taking care of full and final employee separation formalities. We, being in HR, understand the importance that whenever any employee leaves, he or she expects that his or her clearance formalities are done smoothly. Delays happen due to various reasons:
1) If the person has not paid the notice period and his F&F comes as negative, we wait for the gratuity amount to come if he has completed five years or more.
2) Sometimes, they do not submit the Medical LTA bills on time. We follow up regularly even if the employee has left, asking for their bills. Even if we submit the F&F statement in accounts, they, in turn, have certain obligations that without proper supporting documents, they will not process further.
3) Sometimes, we even deposit their cheques in their personal accounts.
4) Sometimes, the delay occurs both from IT and the employees themselves as at the time of leaving, they do not provide the supporting documents for calculating their IT. We also believe that if they provide the relevant documents, their maximum tax amount can be saved.
There are many reasons for the delay in their payments. However, being in HR, we should be sensible in terms of ensuring that when any person leaves the organization, they should not leave on a bad note, and we should try to smoothen the process as fast as we can.
Regarding the additional text provided by Gopi:
Its been a long time for me to post an article on the site, even though I updated many things. Recently, one of our employees quit the company, and as per company policy, he is supposed to get his F&F by the 21st day. Since our HR Operations in Bangalore, employees have to keep in touch with the Bangalore Office. As a location incharge, I followed up and got the news that the employee's cheque is ready.
This week on Monday, I received an email from the location leader of our center stating that HR is not doing their duty, which really hurt me. After the email, I followed up again with the HROps team and came to know that they would process the cheque only on that particular day.
After this incident, I updated our location leader and expressed my unhappiness about the incident. This incident led to a discussion of HR behavior towards outgoing or former employees. It seems that when an employee wants to quit the company, HR would negotiate with them and try to retain them in every way possible. But if the same employee is stubborn about leaving the company, the attitude of HR changes drastically, and they behave very harshly towards them.
They do not even bother to pay them on time and take their own sweet time to complete the work, assuming that the employee would not follow up. I supported his point and here, try to supplement what he noted. From my experience, I have seen the same lethargy from my executives who did not even show any interest in closing this.
When an employee gives his resignation, we do everything to keep them, but why do we not bother about their settlements when they leave the company? I would like to remind you that when we spend lots of money to attract an employee, why are we making them so unhappy when they leave the company?
I hope everyone in the forum accepts that all former employees are future prospects of our company. When we want candidates to attend interviews happily and want our employees to be content in the company, why do we not care about employees' happy exits?
If an employee leaves happily with HR, whatever the reason for the exit may be, I am sure he would come back to our company without any second thoughts if HR employees are good. This would also reduce a lot of recruitment costs.
I kindly request the HR team to treat outgoing employees with a more humane approach.
I welcome comments and suggestions.
Gopi.K
9952414092
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Gopi,
Thank you for such a nice posting, which is very important for all of us in HR.
Following are the inputs to the best of my knowledge:
- Majorly, this happens in bigger organizations because of poor Process & Task Management.
- The person responsible (Ex: HR Head for bigger organizations, Sr. Mgmt in small organizations, etc.) should check on this with the team once a month.
- In bigger organizations, the person responsible for processing F&F will have 1 to 2 years of experience and needs proper coaching on the importance of the on-time F&F process.
- Bigger organizations should have a proper HR System and check on details for SLA slipped cases to fine-tune the process.
- Most small-size organizations finish major formalities by the last day; only the F&F statement and Form 16 need to be sent on time.
- F&F will be stopped only in the case of an employee not completing exit formalities.
On a lighter side – If you ask the HR Head of any bigger organization where such a problem exists, the response could be...
“Ya, I understand. You know, my plate is filled with priorities, however, it's on my radar screen and we'll fix it fast.”
Cheers,
Pradeep
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you for such a nice posting, which is very important for all of us in HR.
Following are the inputs to the best of my knowledge:
- Majorly, this happens in bigger organizations because of poor Process & Task Management.
- The person responsible (Ex: HR Head for bigger organizations, Sr. Mgmt in small organizations, etc.) should check on this with the team once a month.
- In bigger organizations, the person responsible for processing F&F will have 1 to 2 years of experience and needs proper coaching on the importance of the on-time F&F process.
- Bigger organizations should have a proper HR System and check on details for SLA slipped cases to fine-tune the process.
- Most small-size organizations finish major formalities by the last day; only the F&F statement and Form 16 need to be sent on time.
- F&F will be stopped only in the case of an employee not completing exit formalities.
On a lighter side – If you ask the HR Head of any bigger organization where such a problem exists, the response could be...
“Ya, I understand. You know, my plate is filled with priorities, however, it's on my radar screen and we'll fix it fast.”
Cheers,
Pradeep
From India, Hyderabad
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