Dear all,
We have an employee in our company who has resigned. The notice period is 30 days, and he has requested to reduce it to 15-20 days stating a reason for joining a new company. Currently, there is a massive workload, and we may not agree to waive it off, even though he has many ELs pending. The employee is an above-average performer with no complaints.
Post-resignation, however, he is not staying late for work, leaving on time by giving excuses like a dentist's appointment, etc. He has refused to work on weekends and basically is mentally not present in the organization. There is no issue with the theft of data or saying bad things about the company, etc.
Could you please tell me if we can hold his relieving letter legally in such situations? Secondly, how many sick leaves can an employee take during a notice period? Annually, we offer 9 SLs, and the employee has 7 SLs pending. Can he decide to take all 7 SLs in the 30-day notice period post providing medical certificates?
Your responses will be highly appreciated.
From India, Mumbai
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We have an employee in our company who has resigned. The notice period is 30 days, and he has requested to reduce it to 15-20 days stating a reason for joining a new company. Currently, there is a massive workload, and we may not agree to waive it off, even though he has many ELs pending. The employee is an above-average performer with no complaints.
Post-resignation, however, he is not staying late for work, leaving on time by giving excuses like a dentist's appointment, etc. He has refused to work on weekends and basically is mentally not present in the organization. There is no issue with the theft of data or saying bad things about the company, etc.
Could you please tell me if we can hold his relieving letter legally in such situations? Secondly, how many sick leaves can an employee take during a notice period? Annually, we offer 9 SLs, and the employee has 7 SLs pending. Can he decide to take all 7 SLs in the 30-day notice period post providing medical certificates?
Your responses will be highly appreciated.
From India, Mumbai
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Ideally, no leaves of any type during the notice period. Why don't you assure the separating employee that the separation will be done smoothly and ask him to hand over the charge peacefully? In the end, it's a give and take. Do you have any clauses regarding the notice period in the Appointment letter? Can you shed more light on this point?
From India, Pune
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470From India, Pune
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Yes, following is the clause on the appointment letter -
Notice Period - If at any time, you decide to leave the services of the Company, you will be required to give at least one month's notice in writing. After submission of the resignation letter, you may opt for early release. Instead of serving the entire notice period, the same can only be done on written approval from the Concerned Head. In such an event, the payment in lieu (last base salary) will be deducted from the dues. The Company can also terminate your services by giving one month's notice or payment in lieu (last base salary).
Well, but my query is still unanswered. Handover and everything will happen in due course of time. But can my organization hold his relieving letter on grounds that the employee is not working after official hours and is declining to come on Saturdays.
Do let me know.
From India, Mumbai
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Notice Period - If at any time, you decide to leave the services of the Company, you will be required to give at least one month's notice in writing. After submission of the resignation letter, you may opt for early release. Instead of serving the entire notice period, the same can only be done on written approval from the Concerned Head. In such an event, the payment in lieu (last base salary) will be deducted from the dues. The Company can also terminate your services by giving one month's notice or payment in lieu (last base salary).
Well, but my query is still unanswered. Handover and everything will happen in due course of time. But can my organization hold his relieving letter on grounds that the employee is not working after official hours and is declining to come on Saturdays.
Do let me know.
From India, Mumbai
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legally you do not have any ground to do this. you can not go against labour laws.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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The answer to such questions can be answered in two ways. Firstly, what a company can legally do or not do, and secondly, what the company should ethically do. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but it seems from your post that employees in your company are overworked and stressed. You make them come to the office on weekends—though I don't know for how long this has been happening.
A good performer in your company has handed in his resignation, and you have accepted it. So, why switch to a 'legal jargon' mode and act so shrewdly as to exploit him even in his last few days in the company? The employee, as per your own admission, is a good employee. Yet, you have turned to this community to find out ways you can control him.
The fact that you want to withhold his salary and offer letter because he is not staying back in the office speaks of the overall callousness of your organization. Are you from the company's HR or that person's line manager?
From India, Mumbai
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A good performer in your company has handed in his resignation, and you have accepted it. So, why switch to a 'legal jargon' mode and act so shrewdly as to exploit him even in his last few days in the company? The employee, as per your own admission, is a good employee. Yet, you have turned to this community to find out ways you can control him.
The fact that you want to withhold his salary and offer letter because he is not staying back in the office speaks of the overall callousness of your organization. Are you from the company's HR or that person's line manager?
From India, Mumbai
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Actually, I am that person! Just post the question from different perspective to get true answers. So now I can refuse to work beyond office hours and decline to come on weekends then!
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Well, you are free to do whatever you want, as the responsibility of your actions lies with you. Only you know the exact situation in your organization and can gauge how much leeway your boss and company can give you. Like I said in the previous post, there are things that companies should do and things that companies do.
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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True. I agree that. Also the world is very small in the industry where I am working. So will take care of that. Thanks a lot for your replies. Cheers!
From India, Mumbai
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From India, Mumbai
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Dear Brahmaputra,
Good morning. I have a completely different view on this subject. Essentially, the notice period clause is meant for buying enough time for the employer to find a suitable replacement for an exiting employee. You have agreed to the notice period clause upon joining, and in your case, it is one month. Legally and ethically, you are obligated to contribute to the organization that was providing you with a livelihood, during the notice period, just as you have been doing all along. Morally, you are not supposed to absent yourself unless it is an emergency. Applying for a long leave, since you have them, is against the spirit of the notice period. Hence, it is only fair on your part to serve the notice period in full if your employer desires you to do so. As for working late hours/weekends, that is your own decision. My final suggestion on this entire issue: part as friends!
Sincerely,
Ashok
From India, Hyderabad
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Good morning. I have a completely different view on this subject. Essentially, the notice period clause is meant for buying enough time for the employer to find a suitable replacement for an exiting employee. You have agreed to the notice period clause upon joining, and in your case, it is one month. Legally and ethically, you are obligated to contribute to the organization that was providing you with a livelihood, during the notice period, just as you have been doing all along. Morally, you are not supposed to absent yourself unless it is an emergency. Applying for a long leave, since you have them, is against the spirit of the notice period. Hence, it is only fair on your part to serve the notice period in full if your employer desires you to do so. As for working late hours/weekends, that is your own decision. My final suggestion on this entire issue: part as friends!
Sincerely,
Ashok
From India, Hyderabad
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Leaves are not usually given during the notice period. If he avails leaves, the notice period will be extended to that extent. You can shorten the notice period by adjusting the shortfall in the notice period, with leaves that are encashable as per the company's rules.
Varghese Mathew
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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Varghese Mathew
From India, Thiruvananthapuram
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employee eligible for off during notice period????????????????
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Why do you have this doubt, Arun? The notice period is simply a period of 'working days' following the submission of a resignation, leading up to separation. Did you mean to ask if an employee should work every day without any days off during this period? If so, can you clarify your reasoning behind this expectation?
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Why can't leave be given during the notice period? Basically, the notice period is meant to allow time to find another employee to take over the duties and responsibilities of the outgoing employee and to complete any unfinished tasks. So, during this period, it is only natural to assign any new job tasks to the outgoing employee. If the employee has any eligible leave credits, they can be allowed to use them without disrupting this process. Of course, they are required to be present on the last working day.
Raju
From India, Pathanamthitta
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Raju
From India, Pathanamthitta
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Dear B'putra,
First of all, if anyone wants to leave, let them go gracefully.
In any notice period, if anyone wants to avail leave, they may do so, but their notice period is to be extended for the number of days they have taken leave.
EL accumulation may be adjusted against the shortfall of the notice period.
Working within the time schedule is not a crime. If somebody wants to show off by remaining after working hours.
Regards,
G K Sarkar
From India, Mumbai
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First of all, if anyone wants to leave, let them go gracefully.
In any notice period, if anyone wants to avail leave, they may do so, but their notice period is to be extended for the number of days they have taken leave.
EL accumulation may be adjusted against the shortfall of the notice period.
Working within the time schedule is not a crime. If somebody wants to show off by remaining after working hours.
Regards,
G K Sarkar
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you everyone for taking your time to reply to this curious case. I appreciate your views on the said topic.
Actually, the reasons to leave the company are personal. I have been working for more than 3 years in this company, and I only thought of leaving it when my boss quit and the new boss was not how a boss should be. The new boss, who has just 1 year more experience than me, is shouting at me in front of the entire floor, which is a thoroughly unprofessional approach.
It started a year ago when I desperately felt a need to get 'rid of' my organization. In every company, there are long working days that one needs to face. However, negotiating long working days becomes easy when you have a good bunch of folks around you. Sitting normal hours also becomes painful when the people around you are the worst.
The new company I am joining is insisting on a relieving letter. But still, from the responses, I gathered that a company cannot hold a relieving letter based on an employee not working late or not coming on weekends.
Mr. Sarkar, I doubt if people just sit late to show off. Everyone has a family, and Indian culture is changing rapidly with an element of personal space coming into the picture. So, the organization doesn't insist on sitting late if there is no work. Late sitting happens when senior management disconnects itself from middle management and fails to sense the mismatch between the availability of resources and workload.
Mr. Ashok, parting as friends is always good, but I don't think it will happen in this case. The people involved are not friends right from the start!
From India, Mumbai
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Actually, the reasons to leave the company are personal. I have been working for more than 3 years in this company, and I only thought of leaving it when my boss quit and the new boss was not how a boss should be. The new boss, who has just 1 year more experience than me, is shouting at me in front of the entire floor, which is a thoroughly unprofessional approach.
It started a year ago when I desperately felt a need to get 'rid of' my organization. In every company, there are long working days that one needs to face. However, negotiating long working days becomes easy when you have a good bunch of folks around you. Sitting normal hours also becomes painful when the people around you are the worst.
The new company I am joining is insisting on a relieving letter. But still, from the responses, I gathered that a company cannot hold a relieving letter based on an employee not working late or not coming on weekends.
Mr. Sarkar, I doubt if people just sit late to show off. Everyone has a family, and Indian culture is changing rapidly with an element of personal space coming into the picture. So, the organization doesn't insist on sitting late if there is no work. Late sitting happens when senior management disconnects itself from middle management and fails to sense the mismatch between the availability of resources and workload.
Mr. Ashok, parting as friends is always good, but I don't think it will happen in this case. The people involved are not friends right from the start!
From India, Mumbai
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Mr. B. Puthra,
As per the clause mentioned in the appointment order, the employee has given the 30 days' notice period and requested for early relieving. It is nothing wrong. He served the notice in writing. Now it is up to the management to relieve him, whether after 30 days or earlier. You cannot force anybody to complete the pending work, sit late after working hours; this is against the law. The understanding should be mutual, not one way. In this case, I advise you as follows:
1. As requested by the employee, you can relieve him with a 15-day notice period and release him after completion of 15 days.
2. The second option is that you can adjust the remaining 15 days in his salary or in leave payment against the notice period. But see that the employee is going for his better prospects; you should help him and wish him success in his future.
Completion of pending work can only be with a request and mutual understanding and not by any law.
I hope your doubt is clear.
Adoni Suguresh Sr. Executive (Pers, Admin, and Ind. Rels) Rtd Labour Laws Consultant
From India, Bidar
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As per the clause mentioned in the appointment order, the employee has given the 30 days' notice period and requested for early relieving. It is nothing wrong. He served the notice in writing. Now it is up to the management to relieve him, whether after 30 days or earlier. You cannot force anybody to complete the pending work, sit late after working hours; this is against the law. The understanding should be mutual, not one way. In this case, I advise you as follows:
1. As requested by the employee, you can relieve him with a 15-day notice period and release him after completion of 15 days.
2. The second option is that you can adjust the remaining 15 days in his salary or in leave payment against the notice period. But see that the employee is going for his better prospects; you should help him and wish him success in his future.
Completion of pending work can only be with a request and mutual understanding and not by any law.
I hope your doubt is clear.
Adoni Suguresh Sr. Executive (Pers, Admin, and Ind. Rels) Rtd Labour Laws Consultant
From India, Bidar
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Dear Mr. Gupta,
Late sitting is not a crime, and no one would like to sit. Few people, all through the working hours, will sit & chat with their boss, and after office hours, they start working to get a good name/reward from their bosses. In some cases, disparities will be there, all the work will be dumped on a person within the department for which the concerned cannot say "NO" because of the insecurity of the job, particularly in private sectors. He has no option other than to sit late hours or attend the additional job on weekends, where the boss will not be available.
Regards... NVSRao
From India, Hyderabad
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Late sitting is not a crime, and no one would like to sit. Few people, all through the working hours, will sit & chat with their boss, and after office hours, they start working to get a good name/reward from their bosses. In some cases, disparities will be there, all the work will be dumped on a person within the department for which the concerned cannot say "NO" because of the insecurity of the job, particularly in private sectors. He has no option other than to sit late hours or attend the additional job on weekends, where the boss will not be available.
Regards... NVSRao
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear,
I am in full agreement with the views of Mr. Ashok. Waiver of the notice period or adjusting unavailed leave against full or part of the notice period is dependent upon the rules and requirements of the company you are serving and is not a legal entitlement of an employee wanting to leave the service. In this situation, the merit/performance of the employee in question is immaterial.
In all goodness, please do not get waylaid by different sorts of advice and follow the prescribed procedure. Please also note that during the period of notice, leave is not admissible to the employee concerned in the normal case.
S.K. Johri
From India, Delhi
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I am in full agreement with the views of Mr. Ashok. Waiver of the notice period or adjusting unavailed leave against full or part of the notice period is dependent upon the rules and requirements of the company you are serving and is not a legal entitlement of an employee wanting to leave the service. In this situation, the merit/performance of the employee in question is immaterial.
In all goodness, please do not get waylaid by different sorts of advice and follow the prescribed procedure. Please also note that during the period of notice, leave is not admissible to the employee concerned in the normal case.
S.K. Johri
From India, Delhi
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Thank you very much.
There is no question of taking leaves. I have declined to work on weekends and after hours, citing personal reasons. I am convinced that these reasons are not grounds to withhold a relieving letter. I believe my department head will assist me in obtaining relief after adjusting my unused Paid Leaves. It is detrimental to the company to require an employee to complete the full notice period when they are not mentally present.
Cheers!
Brahmagupta
From India, Mumbai
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There is no question of taking leaves. I have declined to work on weekends and after hours, citing personal reasons. I am convinced that these reasons are not grounds to withhold a relieving letter. I believe my department head will assist me in obtaining relief after adjusting my unused Paid Leaves. It is detrimental to the company to require an employee to complete the full notice period when they are not mentally present.
Cheers!
Brahmagupta
From India, Mumbai
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Let the separating employee feel comfortable and happy at the time of separation about the company and its HR policies.
In my view, the company should not withhold his relieving letter on any grounds whatsoever, unless he is involved in any malpractices, misconduct, or moral turpitude.
Thanks,
R. K. Nair
From India, Aizawl
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In my view, the company should not withhold his relieving letter on any grounds whatsoever, unless he is involved in any malpractices, misconduct, or moral turpitude.
Thanks,
R. K. Nair
From India, Aizawl
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I hope you are aware of the fact that if your manager accepts the resignation and wants you to serve the full notice period, but you leave before completing it, the company will classify the reason as voluntary absconding. This could become an issue in the long term if you join a new company.
Thank you.
From United States
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Thank you.
From United States
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Dear Brahmagupta,
All said and done, it's good and desirable for both of you to adopt the middle path. Having put up many years of service in this company, it's expected of you to leave amicably and part as friends. After all, they would require that you work those extra hours as you were doing just prior to giving your notice. If they mind, they can hold onto your relieving letter, leaving aside the legal issues of what is correct or not. If they choose to, they can always frustrate you by all means. Ultimately, you will be the one to suffer, as this company is not going to face insurmountable losses due to your exit. It's always possible to fill the vacuum created with someone else. It's better to try to satisfy the requirements to the extent needed and depart with a clean slate by striking a balance; there is no point in being adamant at this stage.
Cheers!
From India, Bangalore
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All said and done, it's good and desirable for both of you to adopt the middle path. Having put up many years of service in this company, it's expected of you to leave amicably and part as friends. After all, they would require that you work those extra hours as you were doing just prior to giving your notice. If they mind, they can hold onto your relieving letter, leaving aside the legal issues of what is correct or not. If they choose to, they can always frustrate you by all means. Ultimately, you will be the one to suffer, as this company is not going to face insurmountable losses due to your exit. It's always possible to fill the vacuum created with someone else. It's better to try to satisfy the requirements to the extent needed and depart with a clean slate by striking a balance; there is no point in being adamant at this stage.
Cheers!
From India, Bangalore
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