Hi Friends,
It is not intended to hurt anybody. A lot of retired people from defense services, not core HR personnel, are joining organizations at senior levels to become HR Heads after retirement. Some opt for premature retirement, while others join post-retirement age. They may possess administrative capabilities, but many may lack in-depth experience and exposure to various aspects of the HR domain.
Is this a positive sign in current and future HR trends? The environment in which they previously worked is vastly different from the industry. How can they adapt to the HR culture in the industry and build a culture of HR within the industry? Will there be a conflict of thought processes between them and career professionals? Does this hinder the progression of HR career professionals?
Trust me, I am not implying that they are incapable. I would like to hear the views of colleagues within the industry fraternity.
Regards,
Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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2It is not intended to hurt anybody. A lot of retired people from defense services, not core HR personnel, are joining organizations at senior levels to become HR Heads after retirement. Some opt for premature retirement, while others join post-retirement age. They may possess administrative capabilities, but many may lack in-depth experience and exposure to various aspects of the HR domain.
Is this a positive sign in current and future HR trends? The environment in which they previously worked is vastly different from the industry. How can they adapt to the HR culture in the industry and build a culture of HR within the industry? Will there be a conflict of thought processes between them and career professionals? Does this hinder the progression of HR career professionals?
Trust me, I am not implying that they are incapable. I would like to hear the views of colleagues within the industry fraternity.
Regards,
Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Sure,
The field of HR is concentrated on managing people. There are two ways to learn it - one is to start young but be competitive, understanding the concepts through formal education. The other way is to learn on the job, facing the toughest of situations. In corporate settings, humans behave in a controlled and civilized environment. However, in security forces deployed in challenging locations, true human qualities come to the forefront. It truly requires tremendous skill to manage people in such situations.
On the other hand, the corporate world demands adherence to legal HR processes, specific training and development procedures, and methodologies that differ from those of the security forces. This is why the Government of India is sending senior officers with significant experience to management departments to learn what is essential for corporations.
Regards,
Vishwesh
From India, Pune
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The field of HR is concentrated on managing people. There are two ways to learn it - one is to start young but be competitive, understanding the concepts through formal education. The other way is to learn on the job, facing the toughest of situations. In corporate settings, humans behave in a controlled and civilized environment. However, in security forces deployed in challenging locations, true human qualities come to the forefront. It truly requires tremendous skill to manage people in such situations.
On the other hand, the corporate world demands adherence to legal HR processes, specific training and development procedures, and methodologies that differ from those of the security forces. This is why the Government of India is sending senior officers with significant experience to management departments to learn what is essential for corporations.
Regards,
Vishwesh
From India, Pune
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Dear Vishwesh,
Thanks for your comments. You have rendered it to the best of your knowledge on the subject matter.
Let me share something on this aspect. The defense sector is the only place where you find the organization divided into only three verticals: administration, technical, and operations, whereas corporate is divided into many verticals. The administration personnel have to handle a wide range of subjects. In defense, what one person is handling is managed by more than five people in corporate. For example, in corporate, there are HR, administration, facilities, legal, and finance departments all separately, whereas in defense, it is managed under one umbrella, and a single person is responsible for it.
What we need today is to encourage these soldiers after their brightest and splendid service to the nation to transition to the corporate world, providing them with opportunities to adapt to the situation. They can leverage their vision and expertise from defense to deliver exemplary service in the corporate environment.
I hope you all agree with my comments.
Thanks and Regards,
From India, Secunderabad
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Thanks for your comments. You have rendered it to the best of your knowledge on the subject matter.
Let me share something on this aspect. The defense sector is the only place where you find the organization divided into only three verticals: administration, technical, and operations, whereas corporate is divided into many verticals. The administration personnel have to handle a wide range of subjects. In defense, what one person is handling is managed by more than five people in corporate. For example, in corporate, there are HR, administration, facilities, legal, and finance departments all separately, whereas in defense, it is managed under one umbrella, and a single person is responsible for it.
What we need today is to encourage these soldiers after their brightest and splendid service to the nation to transition to the corporate world, providing them with opportunities to adapt to the situation. They can leverage their vision and expertise from defense to deliver exemplary service in the corporate environment.
I hope you all agree with my comments.
Thanks and Regards,
From India, Secunderabad
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Dear Mr. Giridhar,
Well said!
In the Armed Forces, there are various profiles of which we are aware. In my opinion, only an officer with work experience ranging from 10-20 years and above will be the best individual who has a taste of man management, process orientation, and compliance. The reason is, as soon as an officer joins his unit for the next 4-5 years, he will have very few chances of actual management at a certain higher level if not company level. Thus, that type of man management is totally different.
Also, clashes happen in any field or at any time because expectations do not match. For the same reason, there is a training need for all the ex-Special Forces guys before and during their tenure with any of the corporates.
Regards,
Vishwesh Deshmukh
Corporate Trainer - Conversational Techniques, Effective Application of Body Language and Indirect Hypnosis
Email: v.vishwesh@gmail.com
Pune
From India, Pune
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Well said!
In the Armed Forces, there are various profiles of which we are aware. In my opinion, only an officer with work experience ranging from 10-20 years and above will be the best individual who has a taste of man management, process orientation, and compliance. The reason is, as soon as an officer joins his unit for the next 4-5 years, he will have very few chances of actual management at a certain higher level if not company level. Thus, that type of man management is totally different.
Also, clashes happen in any field or at any time because expectations do not match. For the same reason, there is a training need for all the ex-Special Forces guys before and during their tenure with any of the corporates.
Regards,
Vishwesh Deshmukh
Corporate Trainer - Conversational Techniques, Effective Application of Body Language and Indirect Hypnosis
Email: v.vishwesh@gmail.com
Pune
From India, Pune
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Dear VSure,
The kind of exposure an Army officer gets cannot be matched in any sphere of life. He has to be a leader, manager, brother, father, and a mother to the men he leads, and they are from all states, religions, castes, and creeds. I cannot expect you to realize, feel, or understand the trials, tribulations, and extreme pressures we are put through during operations, whether against the enemy or our own misguided Indians. All your senses, expertise, and innovations of man management come to the fore.
It seems that you have come across an exception - there is one in every walk of life - trust me, we do make good leaders, managers, and HR personnel at par with civilians.
One more observation - this topic should not have been raised in this section "Organizing Corporate Events" but under the Human Resource...???
Regards,
Colonel Jude Mayne
From India, Bangalore
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The kind of exposure an Army officer gets cannot be matched in any sphere of life. He has to be a leader, manager, brother, father, and a mother to the men he leads, and they are from all states, religions, castes, and creeds. I cannot expect you to realize, feel, or understand the trials, tribulations, and extreme pressures we are put through during operations, whether against the enemy or our own misguided Indians. All your senses, expertise, and innovations of man management come to the fore.
It seems that you have come across an exception - there is one in every walk of life - trust me, we do make good leaders, managers, and HR personnel at par with civilians.
One more observation - this topic should not have been raised in this section "Organizing Corporate Events" but under the Human Resource...???
Regards,
Colonel Jude Mayne
From India, Bangalore
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Hi,
I am sure that ex-servicemen are equally competent as their counterparts in the corporate sector. Adaptability is the core word for defense personnel, and I bet they are good at it. Besides, "Only the one who obeys can command," and I guess soldiers are synonyms for obedience.
Regards
From India, Shimla
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I am sure that ex-servicemen are equally competent as their counterparts in the corporate sector. Adaptability is the core word for defense personnel, and I bet they are good at it. Besides, "Only the one who obeys can command," and I guess soldiers are synonyms for obedience.
Regards
From India, Shimla
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I completely agree with your post. Even I was denied to get into a position in a very good company, only because of the lateral ego of the head HR, who was a retired army personnel. The reason is, I was the only selected person in the company for the post, and this person had convinced the upper management with some false information and had forced to reject me. He didn't even have the conceptual ideas which I had told him. He was asking doubts to be cleared.
From India, Bangalore
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From India, Bangalore
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Dear All,
I raised the topic in the 'Human Resource Management' section on 25th Jan '10 after posting the same topic in 'Organizing Corporate Events' earlier, without knowing the posting procedures. Leave it aside; I have something to add to the topic after going through the comments posted so far.
I do not have any doubts about the competency levels of the retired army officers. My concern is how they will fit into various aspects of the HR domain in the industry, especially in the private sector, whether it is manufacturing, IT, or services (such as Hotels). They are experts in Administration. However, HR in the private sector is not just about Man Management. HR is a separate subject encompassing various aspects, including legal compliance, compensation practices/trends, talent acquisition/management, retention strategies, performance management, HR metrics, engagement initiatives, latest HR trends, and so on. The practices and discipline procedures followed in corporate industries are likely to be different from those in the defense services. Legal implications and dealing with unions, locals, government liaisons, quasi-government agencies, and ensuring compliance through appropriate means are areas where defense seniors may lack familiarity. The mindset of people in the private sector differs, as does the management approach and attitudes.
We can succeed with positive discipline but cannot sustain with strict force. Over time, strict enforcement may lead to unrest among employees and heads.
Ex-servicemen excel within their expertise but may not be the ideal fit to lead the HR function entirely in any industry vertical. They are well-suited for the administrative aspects of the HR domain. On the other hand, ex-servicemen with technical backgrounds like Engineers and Scientists can perform exceptionally in the private sector, given their experience in similar roles within the defense sector.
Looking forward to further views and comments.
Regards,
Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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I raised the topic in the 'Human Resource Management' section on 25th Jan '10 after posting the same topic in 'Organizing Corporate Events' earlier, without knowing the posting procedures. Leave it aside; I have something to add to the topic after going through the comments posted so far.
I do not have any doubts about the competency levels of the retired army officers. My concern is how they will fit into various aspects of the HR domain in the industry, especially in the private sector, whether it is manufacturing, IT, or services (such as Hotels). They are experts in Administration. However, HR in the private sector is not just about Man Management. HR is a separate subject encompassing various aspects, including legal compliance, compensation practices/trends, talent acquisition/management, retention strategies, performance management, HR metrics, engagement initiatives, latest HR trends, and so on. The practices and discipline procedures followed in corporate industries are likely to be different from those in the defense services. Legal implications and dealing with unions, locals, government liaisons, quasi-government agencies, and ensuring compliance through appropriate means are areas where defense seniors may lack familiarity. The mindset of people in the private sector differs, as does the management approach and attitudes.
We can succeed with positive discipline but cannot sustain with strict force. Over time, strict enforcement may lead to unrest among employees and heads.
Ex-servicemen excel within their expertise but may not be the ideal fit to lead the HR function entirely in any industry vertical. They are well-suited for the administrative aspects of the HR domain. On the other hand, ex-servicemen with technical backgrounds like Engineers and Scientists can perform exceptionally in the private sector, given their experience in similar roles within the defense sector.
Looking forward to further views and comments.
Regards,
Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear All Hope the members have gone through the mails posted on the topic. Hope the beloved members have agreed with my views. Can I take like that ? Regards Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Hello Sure,
I disagree and regret to condemn your statement "Ex-servicemen are experts in their own fort (true) and may not be the right fit to head the HR function in toto in any industry vertical" (absolutely wrong). In my view and experience, every Indian should undergo defense training for a short while to understand the basics of HR, Strategy, Management, and the so-called "positive discipline." Defense is the only place where discipline is with freedom.
Not even an officer, but a soldier who has taken up his civil life after his defense services, started his HR career as an officer with his limited earned qualification from defense, has risen to the level of Head HR in a span of 10 years and subsequently headed HR in two other MNC corporates. It is true that he may not know the diplomacy (neither he has learned nor was taught) to achieve fast-track growth. But surely, he can do wonders in heading an HR Team by the virtues of discipline and management taught or learned by him in defense (namely loyalty, integrity, trustworthiness, agility, leadership, uprightness, aplomb, etc).
Please do correct your opinion. We have volumes of live examples to disprove your statement.
Regards,
Aloysius
From India, Pondicherry
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I disagree and regret to condemn your statement "Ex-servicemen are experts in their own fort (true) and may not be the right fit to head the HR function in toto in any industry vertical" (absolutely wrong). In my view and experience, every Indian should undergo defense training for a short while to understand the basics of HR, Strategy, Management, and the so-called "positive discipline." Defense is the only place where discipline is with freedom.
Not even an officer, but a soldier who has taken up his civil life after his defense services, started his HR career as an officer with his limited earned qualification from defense, has risen to the level of Head HR in a span of 10 years and subsequently headed HR in two other MNC corporates. It is true that he may not know the diplomacy (neither he has learned nor was taught) to achieve fast-track growth. But surely, he can do wonders in heading an HR Team by the virtues of discipline and management taught or learned by him in defense (namely loyalty, integrity, trustworthiness, agility, leadership, uprightness, aplomb, etc).
Please do correct your opinion. We have volumes of live examples to disprove your statement.
Regards,
Aloysius
From India, Pondicherry
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Dear Aloysius,
Thank you for your post. I agree with your opinion partially.
Every Indian should undergo defense training for a certain period. It would teach many valuable things in life, such as discipline, patriotism, cultural diversity, and more.
I also agree with your example of a soldier rising to the position of Head-HR in just ten years. I welcome and salute him.
However, my concern is that some ex-defense personnel are joining corporate organizations directly as Head-HR without the necessary experience or in-depth knowledge of various HR aspects. HR encompasses legal compliance, compensation practices, talent acquisition, retention strategies, performance management, HR metrics, engagement initiatives, statutory audits, and current HR trends. The practices and procedures in corporate industries differ significantly from those in defense services, with distinct legal implications, union handling, government liaisons, and more. The mindset and management approach in the private sector are also different.
In such cases, if a Head-HR (ex-defense) lacks relevant industry experience, it may lead to challenges. Their thought process and actions may not align with second-line HR professionals who have evolved in a different corporate setting. These ex-defense individuals aspiring for Head-HR roles should first gain experience in the sector before assuming leadership positions directly. They may face resistance from existing HR professionals due to their lack of experience in the corporate environment.
Your example of a soldier becoming a Head after ten years of experience is accurate. It is essential for ex-defense personnel to acquire practical experience and adapt to the corporate environment before taking on leadership roles.
I hope you understand my perspective.
Regards,
Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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Thank you for your post. I agree with your opinion partially.
Every Indian should undergo defense training for a certain period. It would teach many valuable things in life, such as discipline, patriotism, cultural diversity, and more.
I also agree with your example of a soldier rising to the position of Head-HR in just ten years. I welcome and salute him.
However, my concern is that some ex-defense personnel are joining corporate organizations directly as Head-HR without the necessary experience or in-depth knowledge of various HR aspects. HR encompasses legal compliance, compensation practices, talent acquisition, retention strategies, performance management, HR metrics, engagement initiatives, statutory audits, and current HR trends. The practices and procedures in corporate industries differ significantly from those in defense services, with distinct legal implications, union handling, government liaisons, and more. The mindset and management approach in the private sector are also different.
In such cases, if a Head-HR (ex-defense) lacks relevant industry experience, it may lead to challenges. Their thought process and actions may not align with second-line HR professionals who have evolved in a different corporate setting. These ex-defense individuals aspiring for Head-HR roles should first gain experience in the sector before assuming leadership positions directly. They may face resistance from existing HR professionals due to their lack of experience in the corporate environment.
Your example of a soldier becoming a Head after ten years of experience is accurate. It is essential for ex-defense personnel to acquire practical experience and adapt to the corporate environment before taking on leadership roles.
I hope you understand my perspective.
Regards,
Sure
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Friends,
If given an opportunity, any ex-service person can head the HR function in a corporate provided he acquires a good PG diploma in HR. However, he needs at least 5 years of experience in HR functions at various levels in the industry. Only then can he head the whole gamut of HR functions. In manufacturing industries where Personnel Management prevails, ex-defense personnel can easily adjust to the job and effectively deal with unions in their own way. Welfare and discipline are given importance in their job roles.
In contrast, in present times where service industries like the IT sector require knowledge and skills in Strategic HRM, Global HRM, and other advanced HRM traits, it may be a bit challenging for ex-servicemen to fit in seamlessly and they might become misfits.
From India, Hyderabad
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If given an opportunity, any ex-service person can head the HR function in a corporate provided he acquires a good PG diploma in HR. However, he needs at least 5 years of experience in HR functions at various levels in the industry. Only then can he head the whole gamut of HR functions. In manufacturing industries where Personnel Management prevails, ex-defense personnel can easily adjust to the job and effectively deal with unions in their own way. Welfare and discipline are given importance in their job roles.
In contrast, in present times where service industries like the IT sector require knowledge and skills in Strategic HRM, Global HRM, and other advanced HRM traits, it may be a bit challenging for ex-servicemen to fit in seamlessly and they might become misfits.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Prabhakarlakku,
I agree with your views. Any ex-service person can head the HR function in a corporate provided he acquires a good PG diploma in HR. However, he needs at least 5 years of experience in HR functions at various levels in the industry. Only then can he head the whole gamut of the HR function.
Regards,
vsure
From India, Hyderabad
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I agree with your views. Any ex-service person can head the HR function in a corporate provided he acquires a good PG diploma in HR. However, he needs at least 5 years of experience in HR functions at various levels in the industry. Only then can he head the whole gamut of the HR function.
Regards,
vsure
From India, Hyderabad
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Hi Friends,
I too agree with this and would like to further state that no organization should appoint an ex-service person as Head of HR without the required basic qualifications in HR. Additionally, unless an ex-officer has a minimum experience of at least 5 years (equivalent to what we call Short Service Commission), they may not be recognized in civilian life for such positions. Therefore, my contention is that, in general, all the points and requirements we discuss are taken care of. However, there may be some misfits, like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, which is sometimes unavoidable.
Regards, T. Aloysius Sahayaraj
From India, Pondicherry
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I too agree with this and would like to further state that no organization should appoint an ex-service person as Head of HR without the required basic qualifications in HR. Additionally, unless an ex-officer has a minimum experience of at least 5 years (equivalent to what we call Short Service Commission), they may not be recognized in civilian life for such positions. Therefore, my contention is that, in general, all the points and requirements we discuss are taken care of. However, there may be some misfits, like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, which is sometimes unavoidable.
Regards, T. Aloysius Sahayaraj
From India, Pondicherry
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