Dear All,
An employee was caught by a security guard while attempting to steal goods from the industry. When questioned by the HRM head, the worker admitted his mistake and provided a written confession. Now, the worker is expecting an apology from the HRM head.
Should the worker be terminated, or should any other action be taken against him? Please provide suggestions for disciplinary actions to be taken against the worker.
Regards,
Sagar
From India, Jalgaon
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1An employee was caught by a security guard while attempting to steal goods from the industry. When questioned by the HRM head, the worker admitted his mistake and provided a written confession. Now, the worker is expecting an apology from the HRM head.
Should the worker be terminated, or should any other action be taken against him? Please provide suggestions for disciplinary actions to be taken against the worker.
Regards,
Sagar
From India, Jalgaon
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Dear Mr. Sagar,
Termination is not the solution. In my view, you should call his family and discuss the matter with them in front of him. Don't terminate him; make him feel sorry in front of his family as well as HR that he was doing wrong. Then ask him, "Why should we not terminate you?"
From India, Kota
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Termination is not the solution. In my view, you should call his family and discuss the matter with them in front of him. Don't terminate him; make him feel sorry in front of his family as well as HR that he was doing wrong. Then ask him, "Why should we not terminate you?"
From India, Kota
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Dear Sagar,
In your case, even though the worker has accepted the apology in writing, you cannot directly terminate him. That would present a weak case in court from the employer's side. The worker may change his mind in court and claim that the employer obtained the written statement forcefully. Therefore, always bear in mind that any termination of a worker must be supported by a proper inquiry. Ensure that the documents are clear enough for the court to see that all necessary procedures were followed before termination.
If you intend to terminate him, my suggestion is to conduct a proper inquiry by an officer appointed by you. Ensure thorough documentation before proceeding with termination.
If you wish to retain him, conduct at least a departmental inquiry and issue a warning letter. However, ensure proper documentation in the departmental inquiry as well and keep it in his personal file for future reference.
Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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In your case, even though the worker has accepted the apology in writing, you cannot directly terminate him. That would present a weak case in court from the employer's side. The worker may change his mind in court and claim that the employer obtained the written statement forcefully. Therefore, always bear in mind that any termination of a worker must be supported by a proper inquiry. Ensure that the documents are clear enough for the court to see that all necessary procedures were followed before termination.
If you intend to terminate him, my suggestion is to conduct a proper inquiry by an officer appointed by you. Ensure thorough documentation before proceeding with termination.
If you wish to retain him, conduct at least a departmental inquiry and issue a warning letter. However, ensure proper documentation in the departmental inquiry as well and keep it in his personal file for future reference.
Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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same thing has happened with me , now those people are also on the same situation infact they have gone beyound the limitation in committing fraud work
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Hello Meena,
Still, you can take the action and terminate them. But not right now because if the fraud has taken place a few weeks/months ago, taking action so late may put you in a problem. The court will definitely ask why late action has been taken. The worker may challenge in court that management is doing it intentionally.
Now, do one thing. Next time when you catch them, immediately suspend them pending enquiry. Have a proper enquiry by your enquiry officer, add previous documents like warnings/statements of security guards/their apologies, etc. Make a complete bunch and then terminate them.
The court will see that in the previous fraud, you gave them a chance to improve but they still did not. This means the court will feel that you have followed the natural justice act in this case. Your case will become stronger in court even if they challenge the termination, and your supporting documents will help you.
Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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Still, you can take the action and terminate them. But not right now because if the fraud has taken place a few weeks/months ago, taking action so late may put you in a problem. The court will definitely ask why late action has been taken. The worker may challenge in court that management is doing it intentionally.
Now, do one thing. Next time when you catch them, immediately suspend them pending enquiry. Have a proper enquiry by your enquiry officer, add previous documents like warnings/statements of security guards/their apologies, etc. Make a complete bunch and then terminate them.
The court will see that in the previous fraud, you gave them a chance to improve but they still did not. This means the court will feel that you have followed the natural justice act in this case. Your case will become stronger in court even if they challenge the termination, and your supporting documents will help you.
Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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i know how to terminate those people i know how to terminate those people i know how to terminate those people i know how to terminate those people
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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ok no issue ok no issue ok no issue ok no issue ok no issue ok no issue ok no issue ok no issue Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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your sentences represents present tense. I had no idea that those are past sentences otherwise I may not have given reply on that. anyway if your expertise in your area its good. Arun J
From India, Hyderabad
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From India, Hyderabad
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Hi,
Hitting the head is not the solution to every problem. Behind every action, there is a reason. Only when you know the correct decision, the action will be appropriate, and the result will be good.
The person who took this action in the company surely knows the result as well. So, if he made a mistake due to a genuine problem, HRM should consider that and give him another chance along with an apology letter. However, if he is habitual in making such mistakes, strict action should be taken.
Kasim Ansari
From India, Mumbai
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Hitting the head is not the solution to every problem. Behind every action, there is a reason. Only when you know the correct decision, the action will be appropriate, and the result will be good.
The person who took this action in the company surely knows the result as well. So, if he made a mistake due to a genuine problem, HRM should consider that and give him another chance along with an apology letter. However, if he is habitual in making such mistakes, strict action should be taken.
Kasim Ansari
From India, Mumbai
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Discipline in an industry is a must, and unless this is ensured, development and growth of the industry will have a direct impact. Legally speaking, though the aggrieved employee has accepted the guilt, punishment needs to be imposed subject to holding a proper and fair domestic enquiry and findings of the enquiry officer. Further technically, a charge sheet should be framed based on the written complaint from the security guard who was instrumental in detecting the theft, not merely on the admission by the aggrieved employee because it could be likely that the said employee, during the enquiry proceedings, might go for a defense, saying under stress, a written undertaking was taken by the management, and the decision in the court of law if taken up might go in favor of the employee.
Once the charge is established, action needs to be taken based on the punishment guidelines applicable to that industry as per the nature of misconducts. If the employee, after his written or verbal apology, is excused, then it will affect the discipline of the industry, and other coworkers might continue to indulge in these sorts of misconducts as well.
Regards,
B.K. Mohanty
Director
Cypress Management Associates
9937822563
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Once the charge is established, action needs to be taken based on the punishment guidelines applicable to that industry as per the nature of misconducts. If the employee, after his written or verbal apology, is excused, then it will affect the discipline of the industry, and other coworkers might continue to indulge in these sorts of misconducts as well.
Regards,
B.K. Mohanty
Director
Cypress Management Associates
9937822563
From India, Bhubaneswar
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Dear Sagar,
How long was this incident? If it was recent, i.e., within legal limits, go ahead and start disciplinary action. I am not saying terminate him, as without disciplinary action, you cannot decide what action to take. Based on witness accounts and the reply given by him to the notice, you can take action as deemed fit. Theft is a serious offense, more in the realms of moral turpitude; hence, strict action can be taken the first time itself.
Manoj
From India, Delhi
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How long was this incident? If it was recent, i.e., within legal limits, go ahead and start disciplinary action. I am not saying terminate him, as without disciplinary action, you cannot decide what action to take. Based on witness accounts and the reply given by him to the notice, you can take action as deemed fit. Theft is a serious offense, more in the realms of moral turpitude; hence, strict action can be taken the first time itself.
Manoj
From India, Delhi
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You have not mentioned the material stolen and its cost to the company. Whatever it is, it depends on his length of service, past disciplinary record, and the present misconduct. Not necessarily termination (even after an inquiry) or suspension or warning.
Further, I sincerely feel, who was having custody of that material, how that person was careless, why he should not also be punished? Why only the worker?
Vibhakar Ramtirthkar
SVR Associates
HR Consultant
From India, Pune
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Further, I sincerely feel, who was having custody of that material, how that person was careless, why he should not also be punished? Why only the worker?
Vibhakar Ramtirthkar
SVR Associates
HR Consultant
From India, Pune
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Discipline is of the highest stature in any personal or professional life. Hence, take appropriate action by making inquiries so that the principle of natural justice is followed. Even sending a message to others is also said to avoid further problems.
From India, Pune
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From India, Pune
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Discipline in the organization is of prime importance. If you let this person off, it will set a precedent, and any future cases will have to be given the same treatment. Please initiate a domestic inquiry and take appropriate action as per the inquiry report.
From India, Chennai
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From India, Chennai
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Terminating the employee's job is not the issue. What this shows is you may need to strengthen your policy and procedures, known as a Code of Conduct, containing all the rules that everyone, including the management, must abide by. It also contains penalties from verbal warning to written warning to dismissal of an employee. In this code, there should be some incidents, very serious ones that may result in instant dismissal like gross misconduct, fraud, theft, sexual assault, fighting, and so on.
With your code in place, you need to have people designated as investigators who will investigate each time an offense is committed. Once they investigate, there should be a hearing where the case is heard by someone different from the one who investigated. Once he hears the case, the person should be able to make a decision, either termination or final warning depending on what offense has been committed.
You need to train everyone once you have this in place—employees, trade unions, managers—all will need to be trained on what happens when this occurs, who raises the complaint, when should the complaint be raised, when should it expire, who investigates, who hears the case, who witnesses, how are appeals held, who hears the appeals, and so on. With such a system, discipline should not be a problem, and an employee who has been stealing from the company will not come back and request from HR for discovering that he has been stealing. This is not acceptable.
From United Kingdom, London
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With your code in place, you need to have people designated as investigators who will investigate each time an offense is committed. Once they investigate, there should be a hearing where the case is heard by someone different from the one who investigated. Once he hears the case, the person should be able to make a decision, either termination or final warning depending on what offense has been committed.
You need to train everyone once you have this in place—employees, trade unions, managers—all will need to be trained on what happens when this occurs, who raises the complaint, when should the complaint be raised, when should it expire, who investigates, who hears the case, who witnesses, how are appeals held, who hears the appeals, and so on. With such a system, discipline should not be a problem, and an employee who has been stealing from the company will not come back and request from HR for discovering that he has been stealing. This is not acceptable.
From United Kingdom, London
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Mr. Vibhkar,
Mr. Vibhkar is correct. Always one should see that "Punishment should be in proportionate with the gravity of misconduct." This means the act says that you cannot hang a person for stealing an apple (it's just an example). Here, the gravity of misconduct is very small in front of a punishment like hanging.
Likewise, before terminating, you must consider his length of service, his gravity of misconduct, etc. For example, if we have caught him stealing goods worth Rs. 200 and he has worked for the company for 5 years without any previous misconduct or disciplinary actions, termination may not be justifiable. There are other ways, such as stopping his increment for 1 or 2 years, etc.
Therefore, one should resort to termination only if that person is harmful to the company and the gravity of misconduct is very serious in nature.
Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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Mr. Vibhkar is correct. Always one should see that "Punishment should be in proportionate with the gravity of misconduct." This means the act says that you cannot hang a person for stealing an apple (it's just an example). Here, the gravity of misconduct is very small in front of a punishment like hanging.
Likewise, before terminating, you must consider his length of service, his gravity of misconduct, etc. For example, if we have caught him stealing goods worth Rs. 200 and he has worked for the company for 5 years without any previous misconduct or disciplinary actions, termination may not be justifiable. There are other ways, such as stopping his increment for 1 or 2 years, etc.
Therefore, one should resort to termination only if that person is harmful to the company and the gravity of misconduct is very serious in nature.
Arun J.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Sir,
Committing theft is a serious misconduct that warrants severe punishment, including dismissal. However, as he has accepted his misconduct and appealed for an excuse, you can consider taking action by demoting his position and salary or stopping increments for two to three years as punishment after consulting with your employer.
D. Gurumurthy
HR & IR Consultant, Hyderabad.
From India, Hyderabad
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Committing theft is a serious misconduct that warrants severe punishment, including dismissal. However, as he has accepted his misconduct and appealed for an excuse, you can consider taking action by demoting his position and salary or stopping increments for two to three years as punishment after consulting with your employer.
D. Gurumurthy
HR & IR Consultant, Hyderabad.
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear All,
Even if we give him a second chance, he cannot work in that company properly as the guilt will kill him, and moreover, the incident can be repeated. I have seen a similar case where the company gave an employee a second chance, but he copied valuable data from the server and moved to another company. It is a RISK - and it can result in LOSS or PROFIT, purely depending on the company's position to challenge the risk.
From India, Hyderabad
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Even if we give him a second chance, he cannot work in that company properly as the guilt will kill him, and moreover, the incident can be repeated. I have seen a similar case where the company gave an employee a second chance, but he copied valuable data from the server and moved to another company. It is a RISK - and it can result in LOSS or PROFIT, purely depending on the company's position to challenge the risk.
From India, Hyderabad
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