Hi everybody,
Recently, we hired a candidate in our organization (xxxxx) and the date of joining was the very next day. The candidate came next day but without documents to which, one of the HR Managers at xxxxxx spoke to him very roughly. So the candidate sent a mail which I have copied and pasted below. Please read it completely and tell me whether the manger was correct or the candidate.
************************************************** ******
Hello (the HR's name),
At the commencement, I would like to show you courtesy for being an incredible HR.
The very next minute I got out of the room after having the telephonic conversation with Mr.Y, the hair-trigger thing I did was, I called my sister and urged her to scan and mail me all my documents for the simple reason that it would bail out some time, my endurance and of course, fuel. She did the same without much clog. Please find attached the same.
I would want to candidly say that as a prospective employee, one would look out for an understanding and co-operating HR. I comprehend with Mr.Y that I should have brought my documents along, however, having said that, I would also uninhibitedly say that the verbiage he applied during the telephonic conversation and suggesting that I was giving excuses with regards to yesterday's fetival which kept me busy was totally unfitting and uncalled for. His belief that "I am not INTERESTED in joining" does not fall into place at all. Nevertheless, I cant convince him otherwise. If he is "DISAPPOINTED" with me, so am I, being the first day of work (even if it is joining formalities first and then the rest of the process would follow) only because of the articulation he drew on. I dont think hell would have broken loose if I had submitted the documents tomorrow or had mailed them today evening, for, even I have worked in very disicplined organizations and I am sorry to say, I have never seen this kind of approach or language which Mr.Y has adhered to. It was in no way, meeting an iota of professional decorum. The approach he took in conveying the message, which he did so dissonantly, sounded as if I was asking for some loan from him and he snubbed me off it, when I came with the tremedous excitement of the xxxxx's Family and Culture . I will confess that Mr.Y is "One-of-the-kind" HR's / Recruiter's I have come across. I have always believed that one's altitude of life depends on the attitude one carries and this attittude of Mr.Y is absolutely incomparable. May be he should take a leaf out of your book.
From India, Hyderabad
Recently, we hired a candidate in our organization (xxxxx) and the date of joining was the very next day. The candidate came next day but without documents to which, one of the HR Managers at xxxxxx spoke to him very roughly. So the candidate sent a mail which I have copied and pasted below. Please read it completely and tell me whether the manger was correct or the candidate.
************************************************** ******
Hello (the HR's name),
At the commencement, I would like to show you courtesy for being an incredible HR.
The very next minute I got out of the room after having the telephonic conversation with Mr.Y, the hair-trigger thing I did was, I called my sister and urged her to scan and mail me all my documents for the simple reason that it would bail out some time, my endurance and of course, fuel. She did the same without much clog. Please find attached the same.
I would want to candidly say that as a prospective employee, one would look out for an understanding and co-operating HR. I comprehend with Mr.Y that I should have brought my documents along, however, having said that, I would also uninhibitedly say that the verbiage he applied during the telephonic conversation and suggesting that I was giving excuses with regards to yesterday's fetival which kept me busy was totally unfitting and uncalled for. His belief that "I am not INTERESTED in joining" does not fall into place at all. Nevertheless, I cant convince him otherwise. If he is "DISAPPOINTED" with me, so am I, being the first day of work (even if it is joining formalities first and then the rest of the process would follow) only because of the articulation he drew on. I dont think hell would have broken loose if I had submitted the documents tomorrow or had mailed them today evening, for, even I have worked in very disicplined organizations and I am sorry to say, I have never seen this kind of approach or language which Mr.Y has adhered to. It was in no way, meeting an iota of professional decorum. The approach he took in conveying the message, which he did so dissonantly, sounded as if I was asking for some loan from him and he snubbed me off it, when I came with the tremedous excitement of the xxxxx's Family and Culture . I will confess that Mr.Y is "One-of-the-kind" HR's / Recruiter's I have come across. I have always believed that one's altitude of life depends on the attitude one carries and this attittude of Mr.Y is absolutely incomparable. May be he should take a leaf out of your book.
From India, Hyderabad
Dear Ms. Swapnil Joshi
I had read your query and email sent by new joinee.
I appreciate the new joinee, because "HE IS MATURED ENOUGH TO WRITE FORMALLY(POLITELY) WHILE NARRATING THE WHOLE SITUATION" Your manager had lost his reputation.
Please be informed that, HR MANAGERS should be known for the BEST MANAGING SKILLS ever one can possess. How can your manager Mr. Y, behave negatively, for just one reason - NOT CARRYING THE DOCUMENTS, which can even be sumitted the next day.
When an employee(entry level) behaves rudely, immediately, a memo is served stating VIOLATION OF CODE OF CONDUCT or he/she is compelled to submit written apology, to write off the whole thing. When HR MANAGER does the same mistake, why cant someone initiate the same process as applicable to junior employee.
"FIRST IMPRESSION IS THE BEST IMPRESSION", it is applicable for everyone. It is your Manager who lost his image for rude behaviour. With such an attitude, your manager cannot progress in his career. To my knowledge, no one has right to behave rudely either EMPLOYEE or LET IT BE THE BOSS. There is a way to correct one's mistakes. Shouting at some one will not solve the process, but it create distances.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
288I had read your query and email sent by new joinee.
I appreciate the new joinee, because "HE IS MATURED ENOUGH TO WRITE FORMALLY(POLITELY) WHILE NARRATING THE WHOLE SITUATION" Your manager had lost his reputation.
Please be informed that, HR MANAGERS should be known for the BEST MANAGING SKILLS ever one can possess. How can your manager Mr. Y, behave negatively, for just one reason - NOT CARRYING THE DOCUMENTS, which can even be sumitted the next day.
When an employee(entry level) behaves rudely, immediately, a memo is served stating VIOLATION OF CODE OF CONDUCT or he/she is compelled to submit written apology, to write off the whole thing. When HR MANAGER does the same mistake, why cant someone initiate the same process as applicable to junior employee.
"FIRST IMPRESSION IS THE BEST IMPRESSION", it is applicable for everyone. It is your Manager who lost his image for rude behaviour. With such an attitude, your manager cannot progress in his career. To my knowledge, no one has right to behave rudely either EMPLOYEE or LET IT BE THE BOSS. There is a way to correct one's mistakes. Shouting at some one will not solve the process, but it create distances.
With profound regards
From India, Chennai
Hello Swapnil.Joshi81,
Khadir is very much right.
I may also add that [assuming the individual finally joined your company], wasn't it for you, xxxx would have lost him altogether. You saved him for the company.
Coming to Y's behaviour during their interaction, frankly the less said the better. I think it's common knowledge that the primary role of any HR is to focus on 'how' rather than 'what' is being conveyed. Even the worst of the news or information or view-point can be conveyed politely & yet firmly and clearly. And if a HR person can't do it, frankly he/she would be either a misfit for a HR career OR he/she has become too big for his/her boots.
The Final Call in either of the situations will have to be taken by the Company, since such attitude needs to be checked right at the beginning before it becomes a pattern--when the damage would [NOT 'could'] be far higher.
One Quote comes to my mind [I think it was Peter Drucker] here: The moment you think you are indispensable to the company, it's time to move on--else both you & the company get destroyed. Is it that Y has come to think that he can get away with anything & he will not be touched?
For all we know, maybe this isn't the first time this has happened in your Company--except that this person had the mental clarity to bring this incident to your notice for the first time--in a much more civic tone than your colleague in HR.
I recollect a Quote here: "A bad word from the mouth of a commoner is blasphemy from the mouth of a priest".
I guess/hope that sums up the gist of what needs to be done with Y.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Khadir is very much right.
I may also add that [assuming the individual finally joined your company], wasn't it for you, xxxx would have lost him altogether. You saved him for the company.
Coming to Y's behaviour during their interaction, frankly the less said the better. I think it's common knowledge that the primary role of any HR is to focus on 'how' rather than 'what' is being conveyed. Even the worst of the news or information or view-point can be conveyed politely & yet firmly and clearly. And if a HR person can't do it, frankly he/she would be either a misfit for a HR career OR he/she has become too big for his/her boots.
The Final Call in either of the situations will have to be taken by the Company, since such attitude needs to be checked right at the beginning before it becomes a pattern--when the damage would [NOT 'could'] be far higher.
One Quote comes to my mind [I think it was Peter Drucker] here: The moment you think you are indispensable to the company, it's time to move on--else both you & the company get destroyed. Is it that Y has come to think that he can get away with anything & he will not be touched?
For all we know, maybe this isn't the first time this has happened in your Company--except that this person had the mental clarity to bring this incident to your notice for the first time--in a much more civic tone than your colleague in HR.
I recollect a Quote here: "A bad word from the mouth of a commoner is blasphemy from the mouth of a priest".
I guess/hope that sums up the gist of what needs to be done with Y.
Rgds,
TS
From India, Hyderabad
Before we give much more gas, we are hearing only one side of the story. Y might have a very different tale to tell.
It is good that the newbie has had the guts to speak thus. Corrective action is required. However, this is just one side of the story. Lets not judge xxxxx on that...
From United States, Daphne
It is good that the newbie has had the guts to speak thus. Corrective action is required. However, this is just one side of the story. Lets not judge xxxxx on that...
From United States, Daphne
Top hat to new joinee for providing his feedback but we should not come to conclusion before knowing other side story.
Hiring is continuous process for HR and not submitting doc on first day is not something new. I don't think any reasonable HR will shout or create an issue from it that also with new joinee. I believe there is other side of coin.
There can be a ego issue of new joinee.... Can be?
Whatever be the case talk to Mr HR and give him some insights. HR is also human being and it's mistakes which make us human. So learn from it and move frwd.
http://kuldeeprathore.blogspot.com/2...hoice-not.html
From India, Hyderabad
Hiring is continuous process for HR and not submitting doc on first day is not something new. I don't think any reasonable HR will shout or create an issue from it that also with new joinee. I believe there is other side of coin.
There can be a ego issue of new joinee.... Can be?
Whatever be the case talk to Mr HR and give him some insights. HR is also human being and it's mistakes which make us human. So learn from it and move frwd.
http://kuldeeprathore.blogspot.com/2...hoice-not.html
From India, Hyderabad
it was very rude of Y; he needs to be issued discliplinary action and suspended and might be a capital punishment will do justice to the poor new joinee.
From India, Madras
From India, Madras
Oh Please,,
Just because a person has sent a mail, everyone is targeting the person
Also in the first step it is not correct to paste the mail addressed to a HR person of an organisation, by mentioning the name of the person & the organisation
Would Humbly request our friend to remove it.
The person has come to join an organisation. How he can be so casual that he did not bring the documents.
What is the sincerity he shows towards the Job.
He has mentioned that he came with great excitement, if that is the case he should have made all preparations from his side ready.
He has also mentioned that hell will never break loose, if he submits the documents the next day.
It shows, that he is not ready to make his mistakes, still harping on the person's reactions.
We are not kids, to forget things & Come to school
This is our Job, we need to show at least some respect to our job, thereby ourself.
Please understand that..
The Candidate was so much concerned about the festival,, not even able to spend 5 - 10 minutes for himself to prepare for the first day of his JOB.
Things taken casually, when it bounced back on us.. we never respond, we reacted.......
From India, Coimbatore
Just because a person has sent a mail, everyone is targeting the person
Also in the first step it is not correct to paste the mail addressed to a HR person of an organisation, by mentioning the name of the person & the organisation
Would Humbly request our friend to remove it.
The person has come to join an organisation. How he can be so casual that he did not bring the documents.
What is the sincerity he shows towards the Job.
He has mentioned that he came with great excitement, if that is the case he should have made all preparations from his side ready.
He has also mentioned that hell will never break loose, if he submits the documents the next day.
It shows, that he is not ready to make his mistakes, still harping on the person's reactions.
We are not kids, to forget things & Come to school
This is our Job, we need to show at least some respect to our job, thereby ourself.
Please understand that..
The Candidate was so much concerned about the festival,, not even able to spend 5 - 10 minutes for himself to prepare for the first day of his JOB.
Things taken casually, when it bounced back on us.. we never respond, we reacted.......
From India, Coimbatore
Peer Mohamed Sardhar has given good advice among others. I had edited messages to remove the company name and the HR's before reading Sardhar's.
We, the Seniors, should set an example in giving balance views like Sardhar and others and not jump to conclusions and make remarks about the HR's behaviour. In one-to-one communications where there are no witnesses, it's one's word against the other. Just because a candidate has written a mail politely and has articulate the case does not make his/her statements true of what happened. The thread starter should have investigated the case even before posting the query.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
A retirec academic in the uK
From United Kingdom
We, the Seniors, should set an example in giving balance views like Sardhar and others and not jump to conclusions and make remarks about the HR's behaviour. In one-to-one communications where there are no witnesses, it's one's word against the other. Just because a candidate has written a mail politely and has articulate the case does not make his/her statements true of what happened. The thread starter should have investigated the case even before posting the query.
Have a nice day.
Simhan
A retirec academic in the uK
From United Kingdom
Dear Swapnil
I always believed that when you are in an organization, you have the obligation to set positive examples both in act and deeds, no matter which and what level the employee is employed.
I have not heard both sides, but hearing one side, I believe that there was mistake on the part of HR. Because in any organization initial two months are given for the employee to settle and adjust to new work environment.
Today where competition is tough, and cost cutting one of the major factor for many companies,as a HR manager one should always try and retain new and old employees and reduce recruitment cost.
But this act of the HR Manager has negative impression on the companies employee welfare and retention methodology and efforts.
Ideally the HR manager should be send for a training in coming days.
Also some one above the HR manager should take time and talk to the employee, to restore the faith in employee about the company.
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
I always believed that when you are in an organization, you have the obligation to set positive examples both in act and deeds, no matter which and what level the employee is employed.
I have not heard both sides, but hearing one side, I believe that there was mistake on the part of HR. Because in any organization initial two months are given for the employee to settle and adjust to new work environment.
Today where competition is tough, and cost cutting one of the major factor for many companies,as a HR manager one should always try and retain new and old employees and reduce recruitment cost.
But this act of the HR Manager has negative impression on the companies employee welfare and retention methodology and efforts.
Ideally the HR manager should be send for a training in coming days.
Also some one above the HR manager should take time and talk to the employee, to restore the faith in employee about the company.
Regards
Octavious
From India, Mumbai
First the person who has pasted this mail does not have a basic courtesy to remove the name of the company. I believe he is working in the same organisation and does not have basic ethics to follow. It shows how his maturity.
Second the mail is only one side of the story , I do know why some of our fellow members just concluded on the decision that the HR Manager is wrong.
Third, if a candidate is so great about his family background and sincere enough in his personal and professional life, he should not tell any lame excuses about family function and other things as reason for not submitting his documents...He should have brought his documents in original (Whatever he has like his SSLC for his DoB, other educational qualifcation certificates, address proof, identity proof, previous employment exp / relieving letters )and could have explained, Boss, I have joined your organisation less than 24 hours from Date of Offer, so please excuse me of not submitting the photocopies of the same. for verification have my originals, photocopies will be submitted in two days. This Act is called as Professionalism. Professionalism never comes from an organisation, it should come from the individual. Irrespective of the above being done and the HR Manager or recruitment manager blasted him, I feel the respective HR person requires behavioral training.
From India, Pune
Second the mail is only one side of the story , I do know why some of our fellow members just concluded on the decision that the HR Manager is wrong.
Third, if a candidate is so great about his family background and sincere enough in his personal and professional life, he should not tell any lame excuses about family function and other things as reason for not submitting his documents...He should have brought his documents in original (Whatever he has like his SSLC for his DoB, other educational qualifcation certificates, address proof, identity proof, previous employment exp / relieving letters )and could have explained, Boss, I have joined your organisation less than 24 hours from Date of Offer, so please excuse me of not submitting the photocopies of the same. for verification have my originals, photocopies will be submitted in two days. This Act is called as Professionalism. Professionalism never comes from an organisation, it should come from the individual. Irrespective of the above being done and the HR Manager or recruitment manager blasted him, I feel the respective HR person requires behavioral training.
From India, Pune
Community Support and Knowledge-base on business, career and organisational prospects and issues - Register and Log In to CiteHR and post your query, download formats and be part of a fostered community of professionals.
Reduce Weight Naturally.doc