I am a consultant, 3 months, back i have started my company, now i had a chance to grow but i have a problem in taking this opportunity, one of my client requires 30 sales and 50 Delivery in charge staff off rolls, and i have no idea how to prepare the agreement part and handle staff on our company rolls................. plz help me.
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
Dear Mr.Malik, Will you please help me to understand that what you are trying coin as "Illegal"?
From India, Chandigarh
44From India, Chandigarh
Dear
The word OFF ROLL is created by us for doing all illegal things.If they will take off roll than they will not pay ESI and PF
and even will not follow any act in relation to compensation etc.
How you can have agreement for providing OFF roll labour.
Still things are going on and off roll is also going on but legally you can not hire any person off roll
From India, Delhi
The word OFF ROLL is created by us for doing all illegal things.If they will take off roll than they will not pay ESI and PF
and even will not follow any act in relation to compensation etc.
How you can have agreement for providing OFF roll labour.
Still things are going on and off roll is also going on but legally you can not hire any person off roll
From India, Delhi
Friend,
Your posting simply justifies the statement "There is limit to knowledge but no limit to ignorance".
Out of assumptions and fictions you are simply putting something that might hurt the sentiments of the concerned.
Hr enactments and statutory do not distinguish between off role and on roll employments.In case you had similar experience to what you had stated that either happened with intentions of not to comply to enactments or from ignorance.This might happen with on roll employments too for which the practice of outsourcing as a principal is not to be held responsible.
Your statement is also going against this principal in terms of law as there exists a complete enactment for this by the name of "Contract Labour Act (R&A),1970 to which i shall you to refer for clarifications of your confusions.
Please be cautious and have sufficient data in your kitty before commenting something in public forum.
From India, Chandigarh
Your posting simply justifies the statement "There is limit to knowledge but no limit to ignorance".
Out of assumptions and fictions you are simply putting something that might hurt the sentiments of the concerned.
Hr enactments and statutory do not distinguish between off role and on roll employments.In case you had similar experience to what you had stated that either happened with intentions of not to comply to enactments or from ignorance.This might happen with on roll employments too for which the practice of outsourcing as a principal is not to be held responsible.
Your statement is also going against this principal in terms of law as there exists a complete enactment for this by the name of "Contract Labour Act (R&A),1970 to which i shall you to refer for clarifications of your confusions.
Please be cautious and have sufficient data in your kitty before commenting something in public forum.
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Arnab
tks for your posting and updating my knowledge.
I would like to know from you that under which section of contract labour(Regulation&
abolition )act 1970 there is a provision of OFF ROLL appointment.
As you given reference of the said act.please give me section than i will consider you as
my mentor.if you know any other act which legalise OFF roll appointment ,you may quote
that also.
From India, Delhi
tks for your posting and updating my knowledge.
I would like to know from you that under which section of contract labour(Regulation&
abolition )act 1970 there is a provision of OFF ROLL appointment.
As you given reference of the said act.please give me section than i will consider you as
my mentor.if you know any other act which legalise OFF roll appointment ,you may quote
that also.
From India, Delhi
Dear Mr.Malik,
The CLRA donot have any separate clause on "Off Roll Appointment" but on a whole it refers to employment of "Workmen" on the payroll of the "Contractor" and deployed at the premises of "Principal Employer".
Going as per the spirit of the refereed act it means that the "Contract Workmen" are the employees of the contractor who engages them in the premises of the principal employer (the client company of the Contractor).Now,since the workmen and the principal employer donot have any employment relationship in between them ie the workmen engaged by the contractor tough serving for the principal employer but are not considered to be in payroll of the principal employer.This is what we commonly refer to "Off Roll" employment or "Contract workmen".
The point on which we initiated our discussion was purely with in the purview of this point of reference.
Now please dont get confused on the term "Abolition" as mentioned in the act as it states that the term is not to abolish the concept of "Contract Labour" but to bring in the same with in a set structure of enactment to prohibit the chances of exploitation of workmen.
From India, Chandigarh
The CLRA donot have any separate clause on "Off Roll Appointment" but on a whole it refers to employment of "Workmen" on the payroll of the "Contractor" and deployed at the premises of "Principal Employer".
Going as per the spirit of the refereed act it means that the "Contract Workmen" are the employees of the contractor who engages them in the premises of the principal employer (the client company of the Contractor).Now,since the workmen and the principal employer donot have any employment relationship in between them ie the workmen engaged by the contractor tough serving for the principal employer but are not considered to be in payroll of the principal employer.This is what we commonly refer to "Off Roll" employment or "Contract workmen".
The point on which we initiated our discussion was purely with in the purview of this point of reference.
Now please dont get confused on the term "Abolition" as mentioned in the act as it states that the term is not to abolish the concept of "Contract Labour" but to bring in the same with in a set structure of enactment to prohibit the chances of exploitation of workmen.
From India, Chandigarh
Dear
This is contract labour ,where employer will have registration and contractor will take licence and it can not be called OFF ROLL because they are on the roll of contractor.
I am in this field from last 34 years and in many companies i myself delt with off roll
where employer does not show them on record and donot give any any benifits.
You take any city or industrial area and you will find 40% labour will be OFF roll
where they will not get any benifit from employer.
Even Contractors who provide manpower to company have more than 50% labour as
off Roll to save PF and ESI benifits given to employee.
Please donot mix contract labour with OFF roll labour
you See the big contactors who provide security services to companies have more than 50% OFF ROLL means they are provided on important security duty of the company still
they are OFF roll.
Than what is this OFF roll?
Is it not illegal activities?
From India, Delhi
This is contract labour ,where employer will have registration and contractor will take licence and it can not be called OFF ROLL because they are on the roll of contractor.
I am in this field from last 34 years and in many companies i myself delt with off roll
where employer does not show them on record and donot give any any benifits.
You take any city or industrial area and you will find 40% labour will be OFF roll
where they will not get any benifit from employer.
Even Contractors who provide manpower to company have more than 50% labour as
off Roll to save PF and ESI benifits given to employee.
Please donot mix contract labour with OFF roll labour
you See the big contactors who provide security services to companies have more than 50% OFF ROLL means they are provided on important security duty of the company still
they are OFF roll.
Than what is this OFF roll?
Is it not illegal activities?
From India, Delhi
Malik Sir,
In respect of the principal employer,are the "Contract Labour" not off-rolls?
The point on which our friend had made the posting was definitely intending to refer to CLRA and in case he as the contractor and his client who is desirous to staff "off rolls" ie on the payroll of the contractor and the norms of applicable enactments and statutory are mate makes no sense addressing it as "illiegal".
Is the knife to be blamed in case it is used to snatch life whereas it could had been used to give life? Definitely not.Rather its the hands either to be blamed or to be praised in respective cases.
I am totally agrrebale with the points that you had raised but i feel you in turn shall agree with me that all those points are cases of bad handling of the act and on these points we can not mark the fundamental as "illegal" itself.
From India, Chandigarh
In respect of the principal employer,are the "Contract Labour" not off-rolls?
The point on which our friend had made the posting was definitely intending to refer to CLRA and in case he as the contractor and his client who is desirous to staff "off rolls" ie on the payroll of the contractor and the norms of applicable enactments and statutory are mate makes no sense addressing it as "illiegal".
Is the knife to be blamed in case it is used to snatch life whereas it could had been used to give life? Definitely not.Rather its the hands either to be blamed or to be praised in respective cases.
I am totally agrrebale with the points that you had raised but i feel you in turn shall agree with me that all those points are cases of bad handling of the act and on these points we can not mark the fundamental as "illegal" itself.
From India, Chandigarh
Dear Friends
In Offroll The Contractor will be the one responsible for the PF and other benefits of the emplyee. He will charge to the client all this sum. the only benefit to the client is that he does not have to deal with the various legal issues of the employee. That will be taken care by the contractor itself. And Offrole is surely legal as a few days back I came to know about the offrole hirings in a GOVT. company ie. CGTMSE(credit Guarantee fund trust for micro and small industry). You can check it out youself.
i am not an expert on this matter and i have very no knowledge(bookish) on HR. but stilll I am running a consultancy and i just keep reading about HR industry on internet. if i am wrong please do tell and enlighten me.
Nikhil Kumar Garg
9729748616
Brainiers Consultancy Services
From India, Ambala
In Offroll The Contractor will be the one responsible for the PF and other benefits of the emplyee. He will charge to the client all this sum. the only benefit to the client is that he does not have to deal with the various legal issues of the employee. That will be taken care by the contractor itself. And Offrole is surely legal as a few days back I came to know about the offrole hirings in a GOVT. company ie. CGTMSE(credit Guarantee fund trust for micro and small industry). You can check it out youself.
i am not an expert on this matter and i have very no knowledge(bookish) on HR. but stilll I am running a consultancy and i just keep reading about HR industry on internet. if i am wrong please do tell and enlighten me.
Nikhil Kumar Garg
9729748616
Brainiers Consultancy Services
From India, Ambala
Hi Sir/ Mam,
I have a consultancy firm and we have a contractor as one of our clients. He has many Off-roll employees and now he intends to get all of them on-roll to fulfil the legal compliance but the problem is that most of them are 'Daily wages labourers'. For example; if some labourers has worked with the contractor today, there is no surety that they will come the next day or not and all of them wants daily fixed cash payment.
Seniors please help us out of this.
Thanks & Regards
Alok Khowal
From India, Ranchi
I have a consultancy firm and we have a contractor as one of our clients. He has many Off-roll employees and now he intends to get all of them on-roll to fulfil the legal compliance but the problem is that most of them are 'Daily wages labourers'. For example; if some labourers has worked with the contractor today, there is no surety that they will come the next day or not and all of them wants daily fixed cash payment.
Seniors please help us out of this.
Thanks & Regards
Alok Khowal
From India, Ranchi
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