Hi,
I find in organizations the Finance Manager is managing the finance; some of the departments may buy, or sell or do transactions invlolving money, but ultimately it is the finance manager who is handling the finance.
Similarly, the Marketing Manager is directly doing the marketing activities and therefore he is managing the market for his company.
The Projects Manager is executing the projects; so he with his department is managing all the business projects of the company.
Or, if you take the case of a Production Manager, he is certainly handling the production and therefore when you call him as Production Manager it sounds logical.
But, you take the case of the Human Resource Manager.
The human resource of the company is not under his management. It is all with other managers of the company - the production guys are under the production manager, the sales guys under the sales manager, the IT guys under the IT manager, and so on.
The HR Manager is having only the HR team guys under him.
Then, how do you call him the 'Human Resource Manager'?
If you say he is only recruiting, then I would say recruitment is not human resource management because during recruitment the human resource does not belong to the company and once recruited the people are handed over to other departments for being managed by respective managers.
If you say the HR manager is only finally terminating, then termination is not HR management. Once terminated, the employee is not with the company any more.
If you say the HR manager is managing the performance of all the employees, it is not true, because it is the concerned department manager, who is managing the performance of his department employees. HR Manager at the best can give a performance management system to the company.
If you analyse like this, you will find that the HR manager is the only manager in the company, who is not managing the human resource of the company.
Then, there are two questions to ask -
1. Is the HR Manager managing the human resource?
Or,
2. Should he be designated as Manager - HRRM (i.e. Manager - HR Related Management)?
Please tell me, friends.
Jeeva.
From India, Bangalore
6I find in organizations the Finance Manager is managing the finance; some of the departments may buy, or sell or do transactions invlolving money, but ultimately it is the finance manager who is handling the finance.
Similarly, the Marketing Manager is directly doing the marketing activities and therefore he is managing the market for his company.
The Projects Manager is executing the projects; so he with his department is managing all the business projects of the company.
Or, if you take the case of a Production Manager, he is certainly handling the production and therefore when you call him as Production Manager it sounds logical.
But, you take the case of the Human Resource Manager.
The human resource of the company is not under his management. It is all with other managers of the company - the production guys are under the production manager, the sales guys under the sales manager, the IT guys under the IT manager, and so on.
The HR Manager is having only the HR team guys under him.
Then, how do you call him the 'Human Resource Manager'?
If you say he is only recruiting, then I would say recruitment is not human resource management because during recruitment the human resource does not belong to the company and once recruited the people are handed over to other departments for being managed by respective managers.
If you say the HR manager is only finally terminating, then termination is not HR management. Once terminated, the employee is not with the company any more.
If you say the HR manager is managing the performance of all the employees, it is not true, because it is the concerned department manager, who is managing the performance of his department employees. HR Manager at the best can give a performance management system to the company.
If you analyse like this, you will find that the HR manager is the only manager in the company, who is not managing the human resource of the company.
Then, there are two questions to ask -
1. Is the HR Manager managing the human resource?
Or,
2. Should he be designated as Manager - HRRM (i.e. Manager - HR Related Management)?
Please tell me, friends.
Jeeva.
From India, Bangalore
Hi Jeeva,
The finance manager may be managing the finance. But, he is not earning the money for the company; it is the production (of goods or services) and sales, who are earning. Again, the finance manager is not spending the money. It is other departments. He is not in-charge of exploitation (deployment) of funds, except for the money paid towards tax or interest or some finance charges. So, the finance manager is not the user of the funds, but regulates the funds, manages the funds and so is the manager of funds.
The Marketing manager is not using the market. He recruits the right market and hands it over to production; he facilitates the company's sales. The user of the market is the company - its production dept. When the marketing manager is not the user of the market, he is still called the marketing manager because he deals with the marketing aspects of the management.
The production manager is not the user of the products, but regulates the production. The user is the marketing and finally the customer outside the company. The machinery do not belong to production, but to the finance, who have made the capital investments on company's behalf.
Similarly, the HR manager is not the user of the human resource. He regulates the use of this resource, hence could be said as managing HR and so is designated as the HR.
Govardhan
From India, Madras
The finance manager may be managing the finance. But, he is not earning the money for the company; it is the production (of goods or services) and sales, who are earning. Again, the finance manager is not spending the money. It is other departments. He is not in-charge of exploitation (deployment) of funds, except for the money paid towards tax or interest or some finance charges. So, the finance manager is not the user of the funds, but regulates the funds, manages the funds and so is the manager of funds.
The Marketing manager is not using the market. He recruits the right market and hands it over to production; he facilitates the company's sales. The user of the market is the company - its production dept. When the marketing manager is not the user of the market, he is still called the marketing manager because he deals with the marketing aspects of the management.
The production manager is not the user of the products, but regulates the production. The user is the marketing and finally the customer outside the company. The machinery do not belong to production, but to the finance, who have made the capital investments on company's behalf.
Similarly, the HR manager is not the user of the human resource. He regulates the use of this resource, hence could be said as managing HR and so is designated as the HR.
Govardhan
From India, Madras
Hi Govardhan,
Your argument is not valid.
Because, you have neglected my important points in your reply.
You see the production is under the production manager, marketing under the marketing manager, finance under the finance manager (he receives the income, deposits in bank and gives the cheques to user departments, so he handles the money a lot), IT is under IT manager, ..., but........
the human resource is NOT under the HR manager, neither he is handling the resource the way finance manager is handling money, production manager is handling the production, marketing manager is handling the market......
The human resource is allocated to and is under the management of other managers, who are also managing other functions, like finance, marketing etc.
Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
Your argument is not valid.
Because, you have neglected my important points in your reply.
You see the production is under the production manager, marketing under the marketing manager, finance under the finance manager (he receives the income, deposits in bank and gives the cheques to user departments, so he handles the money a lot), IT is under IT manager, ..., but........
the human resource is NOT under the HR manager, neither he is handling the resource the way finance manager is handling money, production manager is handling the production, marketing manager is handling the market......
The human resource is allocated to and is under the management of other managers, who are also managing other functions, like finance, marketing etc.
Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
Hi Jeevan,
If we all of us are not handling HUMAN RESOURCE, theen what are we doing????
I do not agree with you that we don't handle human resources, don't you analyse their training needs, recruitment, soft skill improvement, their development, their career planning, growth, performance management and etc etc.
ALl other department shpuld also be taken into consideration with the point you are making, FINANCE MANAGER handling finanace but had to make budgets in comsultation with all other departmental heads, marketing department make sales in consultation with R&D department et all.
Hey think about it Jeevan.
Cheers
Archna
From India, Delhi
If we all of us are not handling HUMAN RESOURCE, theen what are we doing????
I do not agree with you that we don't handle human resources, don't you analyse their training needs, recruitment, soft skill improvement, their development, their career planning, growth, performance management and etc etc.
ALl other department shpuld also be taken into consideration with the point you are making, FINANCE MANAGER handling finanace but had to make budgets in comsultation with all other departmental heads, marketing department make sales in consultation with R&D department et all.
Hey think about it Jeevan.
Cheers
Archna
From India, Delhi
Hi Archna,
Please be analytical and please don't be labouring under the perception traditionally carried by our HR people that they are managing / handling human resource.
What you mean to say when you say we are identifying training needs, career needs, etc. etc., you are saying we are handling/managing the needs of the human resource. It does not mean we are handling the human resource.
Let me make it more clear.
The objective of the production manager is production. But he is managing the machines, materials, and the human resource.
The objective of marketing manager is making good sales. So, he is handling/managing the market, marketing techniques, and the human resource under him.
The objective of the finance manager is effective use of funds, timely availability of funds etc. He is handling the funds, the financial institutions, and the human resource under him for doing these jobs.
But, you see what is the objective of the human resource manager?
Effective use of people?
Effective performance of people?
You list down the objectives. These are just 'the needs of the human resource in the context of the needs of the company'.
So, the HR manager is handling the needs of the human resource trying to fulfil the needs to the advantage of the company he is working for.
But, where is he managing / handling the human resource in the process? Only sporadically - when you make people sit in a training program, or when you address the gathering of employees in any company function, and occasions like that.
But, can that be called as managing the human resource or handling the human resource?
There is a difference between 'handling the needs of the human resource' and 'handling the human resource'.
The HR Manager is handling the needs of HR and other managers are only handling the HR.
Why don't you please think, Archna? And, tell me your thoughts.
Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
Please be analytical and please don't be labouring under the perception traditionally carried by our HR people that they are managing / handling human resource.
What you mean to say when you say we are identifying training needs, career needs, etc. etc., you are saying we are handling/managing the needs of the human resource. It does not mean we are handling the human resource.
Let me make it more clear.
The objective of the production manager is production. But he is managing the machines, materials, and the human resource.
The objective of marketing manager is making good sales. So, he is handling/managing the market, marketing techniques, and the human resource under him.
The objective of the finance manager is effective use of funds, timely availability of funds etc. He is handling the funds, the financial institutions, and the human resource under him for doing these jobs.
But, you see what is the objective of the human resource manager?
Effective use of people?
Effective performance of people?
You list down the objectives. These are just 'the needs of the human resource in the context of the needs of the company'.
So, the HR manager is handling the needs of the human resource trying to fulfil the needs to the advantage of the company he is working for.
But, where is he managing / handling the human resource in the process? Only sporadically - when you make people sit in a training program, or when you address the gathering of employees in any company function, and occasions like that.
But, can that be called as managing the human resource or handling the human resource?
There is a difference between 'handling the needs of the human resource' and 'handling the human resource'.
The HR Manager is handling the needs of HR and other managers are only handling the HR.
Why don't you please think, Archna? And, tell me your thoughts.
Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
Hi,
Let me also tell you this -
The production manager is managing the production needs of the company and the production.
The marketing manager is managing the marketing needs and marketing.
The finance manager is managing the financial needs and the finance.
The Human Resource Manager is handling only the HR needs, but NOT HR. :P :lol: :D :!: :?:
Very strange!!! Oh, God!!!
Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
Let me also tell you this -
The production manager is managing the production needs of the company and the production.
The marketing manager is managing the marketing needs and marketing.
The finance manager is managing the financial needs and the finance.
The Human Resource Manager is handling only the HR needs, but NOT HR. :P :lol: :D :!: :?:
Very strange!!! Oh, God!!!
Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
Dear all, Do you agree with this view? Your responses against this view substantiating your stand are welcome, please. Jeevan
From India, Bangalore
From India, Bangalore
HR Manager Manages and looks after all the Human Resources including the Production Manager or even the General Manager, to be literally correct. You are very well aware that all the promotions, increments etc. (NEEDS) are worked in the HR Department and various appraisals conducted by the department are taken into consideration, towards the same. It is this department that manages as to who is the right man to be fixed at the right place at the right time, considering his ability, skill, aptitude and various other psycho-sociological factors. Still further, it is this very department that lays down various policies for regulation(management) of personnel by key managers (indirectly HR is present in every nook and corner of organisation). Area and scope of the HR Manager is unlimited and he not only assists but lays down various implementations to be implied by the middle level management.
New Comers to this field can be ridiculed that this department does not manage human resources and just maintains personnel records and audits and look towards welfare only. Various Psycho-Sociometric analysis are done on this data to reach the concensus as discussed above and still remains a lot undiscussed.
What Say All?
New Comers to this field can be ridiculed that this department does not manage human resources and just maintains personnel records and audits and look towards welfare only. Various Psycho-Sociometric analysis are done on this data to reach the concensus as discussed above and still remains a lot undiscussed.
What Say All?
Hi,
HR does manage Human Resources.
Employees are assigned to various functions for performance and to that extent they work under the concerned functional head. Looking at the question from the narrow "line & staff" consideration, HR manages it department (in a line perspective) and therefore he is anyway managing human resources on par with other functional heads.
But looking at the peculiar nature of the resource and the need for this resource to outside of the Human Resource Department, it is incorrect to say that HR managers are NOT managing human resources for the reasons that:
1) HR primarily manages the collectivity of the resource.
2) It controls, centrally, the vital functions in the interests of the organizations (like time office, statutory compliances, leave administration, organizing pay roll inputs etc.)
3) Work execution due to differentiated skills is assigned to the functional heads as HR is NOT expected to extract work from a CNC Operator or from a software engineer because he is simply NOT equipped to do so!
4) Therefore managing collectivity, maintaining and developing culture (with help from his associates), grievance handling, welfare activities, recruitment etc. are significant contents of the HR job which he per force has to carry out in tandem with other functional heads.
It is for these and similar reasons it would be unfair to say or even think that HR is not managing HR. Further a Production Manager who one feels is managing production is NOT making things and products. Same holds good for Marketing and other functions. Ther carry out their tasks by managing the resources (including the human beings) and in an identical manner HR manages its function (including managing human resource) through other functional heads.
Thanks for starting the thread. It makes one think and develop clarity that with time gets blurred to even our own HR people!!!!
Regards
samvedan
October 23, 2006
From India, Pune
HR does manage Human Resources.
Employees are assigned to various functions for performance and to that extent they work under the concerned functional head. Looking at the question from the narrow "line & staff" consideration, HR manages it department (in a line perspective) and therefore he is anyway managing human resources on par with other functional heads.
But looking at the peculiar nature of the resource and the need for this resource to outside of the Human Resource Department, it is incorrect to say that HR managers are NOT managing human resources for the reasons that:
1) HR primarily manages the collectivity of the resource.
2) It controls, centrally, the vital functions in the interests of the organizations (like time office, statutory compliances, leave administration, organizing pay roll inputs etc.)
3) Work execution due to differentiated skills is assigned to the functional heads as HR is NOT expected to extract work from a CNC Operator or from a software engineer because he is simply NOT equipped to do so!
4) Therefore managing collectivity, maintaining and developing culture (with help from his associates), grievance handling, welfare activities, recruitment etc. are significant contents of the HR job which he per force has to carry out in tandem with other functional heads.
It is for these and similar reasons it would be unfair to say or even think that HR is not managing HR. Further a Production Manager who one feels is managing production is NOT making things and products. Same holds good for Marketing and other functions. Ther carry out their tasks by managing the resources (including the human beings) and in an identical manner HR manages its function (including managing human resource) through other functional heads.
Thanks for starting the thread. It makes one think and develop clarity that with time gets blurred to even our own HR people!!!!
Regards
samvedan
October 23, 2006
From India, Pune
Hi Jeevan,
I would like to add that HR is not about owning people, it is about channelising resources & ensuring that the resources function optimally. It does not matter who they report to or what role they actually play. We could be talking about a Line manager or an executive or even the office assistant for that matter.
We, the HR fraternity are here to see to it that right people are recruited, that they are trained to fulfill their role in the organisation, that their skills are utilised in the best fitting job role, that they have no issues that affect their performance, that they grow with the organisation, that their performance is mapped with expectations, that their contributions are acknowledged in a fitting manner, that underperformers that handled appropriately, that employee welfare is given serious thought and so on, to include the task of mature handling of employees exiting from the organisation. Not to mention that HR is also the platform to which the employees voice their issues.
Therefore, in that context, the HR team is managing the human resources of the organisation on the whole. Similarly the HR Head, plays the key role of directing and controlling the crucial Human Resource functions that serve as facilitators in every well managed organisation.
Cheers,
Naina
From United States
I would like to add that HR is not about owning people, it is about channelising resources & ensuring that the resources function optimally. It does not matter who they report to or what role they actually play. We could be talking about a Line manager or an executive or even the office assistant for that matter.
We, the HR fraternity are here to see to it that right people are recruited, that they are trained to fulfill their role in the organisation, that their skills are utilised in the best fitting job role, that they have no issues that affect their performance, that they grow with the organisation, that their performance is mapped with expectations, that their contributions are acknowledged in a fitting manner, that underperformers that handled appropriately, that employee welfare is given serious thought and so on, to include the task of mature handling of employees exiting from the organisation. Not to mention that HR is also the platform to which the employees voice their issues.
Therefore, in that context, the HR team is managing the human resources of the organisation on the whole. Similarly the HR Head, plays the key role of directing and controlling the crucial Human Resource functions that serve as facilitators in every well managed organisation.
Cheers,
Naina
From United States
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