Dear Sohini Roy,
As Mr. Ravi said, we are all human beings. Right! Very right!
But here, 100% I will not agree with the wordings of Mr. Ravi.
"Better mind your work and leave her alone, let her take leaves, if leaves are over, make it LOP, but don't terminate till she resigns... Because we are humans, hope the same from you all."
Sir, the company assigned you the work of Senior Manager-HR. Your work is to ensure better human relations, that too only for the sake of and for the benefit of the company. Your prima facie duty is to work for the company which is giving you bread and butter. Sir, you are exactly doing your job and minding your work only!
You talked to her in a friendly way. Made conversations! Asked her problems! Made her understand the value of the system, punctuality, and her career. What more else can a Senior Manager do than this? I believe you cannot correct any employee or anybody unless they wish to correct or change themselves by understanding. "One's realization must come from inside."
What is the mannerism of a lady (in fact, a trainee), who disconnects a call of a Senior Manager purposely, who walks out of the office during office hours without any intimation, who is arguing with a Senior Manager. (Your statement: she kept on arguing, accusing me but I was so calm...)
I think, Mr. Sohini, you are a person with a very good heart. How is it possible for a man to help and solve someone's personal problems even by taking your own personal efforts, if she doesn't want to open up and tell her personal problem to you. Solving personal problems is not part of your job, and no one can compel you to do that; it is done only by considering the benefit of the organization.
Every human being must realize the great sayings: "Work is worship, duty is divinity." At least for the sake of money, if she gives importance to money, she will definitely come to the job on time and do the work. It seems like the money given by the company is also not important to her.
Discipline is the utmost important thing required from a disciple. That is the absolute necessity of a trainee. There are many other people working in your organization, including your boss. Everybody has their own personal problems. If everybody starts showing indisciplined behavior, what is the fate of the organization? We are running an organization.
Assigning personal problems as the cause of indiscipline is not an acceptable thing for anybody, including your boss.
If your boss didn't give or delayed one month's salary to the employees by attributing his personal problem, whether all employees will accept this as a cause and continue to do the same quality and kind of work? No! Work performance would definitely suffer!
Discipline is required to give the salary to employees on time from the employer. In the same fashion, the employee is also required to be present and work at the scheduled time.
Three or four days of delays in a month - ok. Leave it! But continuous practice, is it good for the person who is doing it? Is it good for the organization? Is it good HR practice even on the part of the Senior Manager to allow freedom to one person coming in late to the office every day?
I suggest taking some disciplinary action against this lady by duly considering the benefit of the project and the organization. This is my personal suggestion.
Thanks & regards,
hsankararaman
Hello Sir,
You are very much correct, but what I wish to tell you is that though there is no HR in my organization, once I had a personal problem and did not visit my office for one month, and even more than that, even my boss knew the problem, but in my office all cooperated with me, and someone or the other handled my work until I came.
So now I think very highly of those people, as they helped me at that time. And my problem must also be like that of that girl, even if my office had told me that they would cut my pay, I would have bluntly replied OK, you can cut it.
Because you see, it is human nature. Once again, O my learned HR professionals, have you understood human nature.
You already have some personal problems and somehow manage to come to the office, and the HR is standing before you and telling "I will cut your pay."
If you add fuel to fire, what will happen?
Here the outburst of emotions happens, and the employee replies bluntly, "Do what you want" or "You can cut it," because the issue is more significant than your pay at that time. So obviously, she will decide to take LOP and try to solve her personal problem.
No doubt, I agree that we are working for the organization, and we can directly issue a warning letter, memo, and terminate her. But in this case, I always advise candidates to keep the HR on their toes.
Even in whatever work I do, I keep certain trade secrets only with me. So even if the organization's HR terminates me, the company will be in deep trouble as the only person knowing the detailed secret knowledge is me. Ultimately, in this case, the HR will get fired by management. And no action can be taken against me, as management needs me, and will approve leaves, but it will be the HR who will be in trouble.
Direct firing, terminating is not what is taught in HR. Either you can make her realize the issue and let her make her decision, i.e., she may voluntarily resign, but forcing to resign, terminate, etc., no.
My Email ID: [Email address removed for privacy]
Thanks & regards,
hsankararaman
From India, Pune
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57As Mr. Ravi said, we are all human beings. Right! Very right!
But here, 100% I will not agree with the wordings of Mr. Ravi.
"Better mind your work and leave her alone, let her take leaves, if leaves are over, make it LOP, but don't terminate till she resigns... Because we are humans, hope the same from you all."
Sir, the company assigned you the work of Senior Manager-HR. Your work is to ensure better human relations, that too only for the sake of and for the benefit of the company. Your prima facie duty is to work for the company which is giving you bread and butter. Sir, you are exactly doing your job and minding your work only!
You talked to her in a friendly way. Made conversations! Asked her problems! Made her understand the value of the system, punctuality, and her career. What more else can a Senior Manager do than this? I believe you cannot correct any employee or anybody unless they wish to correct or change themselves by understanding. "One's realization must come from inside."
What is the mannerism of a lady (in fact, a trainee), who disconnects a call of a Senior Manager purposely, who walks out of the office during office hours without any intimation, who is arguing with a Senior Manager. (Your statement: she kept on arguing, accusing me but I was so calm...)
I think, Mr. Sohini, you are a person with a very good heart. How is it possible for a man to help and solve someone's personal problems even by taking your own personal efforts, if she doesn't want to open up and tell her personal problem to you. Solving personal problems is not part of your job, and no one can compel you to do that; it is done only by considering the benefit of the organization.
Every human being must realize the great sayings: "Work is worship, duty is divinity." At least for the sake of money, if she gives importance to money, she will definitely come to the job on time and do the work. It seems like the money given by the company is also not important to her.
Discipline is the utmost important thing required from a disciple. That is the absolute necessity of a trainee. There are many other people working in your organization, including your boss. Everybody has their own personal problems. If everybody starts showing indisciplined behavior, what is the fate of the organization? We are running an organization.
Assigning personal problems as the cause of indiscipline is not an acceptable thing for anybody, including your boss.
If your boss didn't give or delayed one month's salary to the employees by attributing his personal problem, whether all employees will accept this as a cause and continue to do the same quality and kind of work? No! Work performance would definitely suffer!
Discipline is required to give the salary to employees on time from the employer. In the same fashion, the employee is also required to be present and work at the scheduled time.
Three or four days of delays in a month - ok. Leave it! But continuous practice, is it good for the person who is doing it? Is it good for the organization? Is it good HR practice even on the part of the Senior Manager to allow freedom to one person coming in late to the office every day?
I suggest taking some disciplinary action against this lady by duly considering the benefit of the project and the organization. This is my personal suggestion.
Thanks & regards,
hsankararaman
Hello Sir,
You are very much correct, but what I wish to tell you is that though there is no HR in my organization, once I had a personal problem and did not visit my office for one month, and even more than that, even my boss knew the problem, but in my office all cooperated with me, and someone or the other handled my work until I came.
So now I think very highly of those people, as they helped me at that time. And my problem must also be like that of that girl, even if my office had told me that they would cut my pay, I would have bluntly replied OK, you can cut it.
Because you see, it is human nature. Once again, O my learned HR professionals, have you understood human nature.
You already have some personal problems and somehow manage to come to the office, and the HR is standing before you and telling "I will cut your pay."
If you add fuel to fire, what will happen?
Here the outburst of emotions happens, and the employee replies bluntly, "Do what you want" or "You can cut it," because the issue is more significant than your pay at that time. So obviously, she will decide to take LOP and try to solve her personal problem.
No doubt, I agree that we are working for the organization, and we can directly issue a warning letter, memo, and terminate her. But in this case, I always advise candidates to keep the HR on their toes.
Even in whatever work I do, I keep certain trade secrets only with me. So even if the organization's HR terminates me, the company will be in deep trouble as the only person knowing the detailed secret knowledge is me. Ultimately, in this case, the HR will get fired by management. And no action can be taken against me, as management needs me, and will approve leaves, but it will be the HR who will be in trouble.
Direct firing, terminating is not what is taught in HR. Either you can make her realize the issue and let her make her decision, i.e., she may voluntarily resign, but forcing to resign, terminate, etc., no.
My Email ID: [Email address removed for privacy]
Thanks & regards,
hsankararaman
From India, Pune
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Dear all,
Even I am facing a similar situation at the moment in my company. I am working as an HR Executive and Recruiter in my present company. I would like to share my experience as well:
This employee has been employed since February. He was told about his targets and responsibilities quite clearly by the management as well as me. He accepted and started off. However, performance-wise, his output was not meeting the expectations of my management. When this was brought to my attention, I spoke with the employee and asked him about his challenges. He provided various reasons and excuses. One reason he mentioned was that he didn't understand the service line he was tasked with selling to prospective clients.
Considering this as a valid reason among others he shared, I informed the management. Subsequently, the management conducted a one-on-one with him and transferred him to a different service line that he claimed to be familiar with and more comfortable in. By this time, he was nearing the end of his two-month probation period.
I advised him to communicate any performance issues promptly to me and his superior. He was given time to settle in and continue his duties in the new service line. However, after another month, a performance review revealed that the management was still dissatisfied.
He mentioned that the management was not accepting the clients he was bringing in as a reason for his underperformance. We had another discussion with him, reiterating our services and what we offer to clients. At this point, a warning letter was issued, extending his probation by three months due to the lack of results or target achievement.
Following the warning letter, his performance showed a slight improvement for a brief period, but it was still rated as average by the management. Despite detailed explanations of our services, he struggled to attract the right clients.
Towards the end of May, it was discovered that he had been tampering with the surveillance camera in his workspace, attempting to avoid being recorded during work hours. This act of tampering was met with strong disapproval from his superiors and the management.
After a thorough performance review, it was evident that he was taking the extended probation period for granted, coupled with multiple leaves citing various reasons. A second warning letter was issued, addressing both his behavior and performance. Following this, he took a leave of five days due to severe back pain.
Upon his return, another discussion was held emphasizing the importance of his conduct and performance. It was made clear that if he did not improve to the expected levels, termination would be considered.
Subsequently, a new employee (employee 2) joined in the same shift as employee 1. Employee 1 proceeded to speak negatively about the company and its processes to employee 2, who provided feedback on this behavior.
Given the situation, termination of employee 1 is being considered. The question now is whether to give him a final chance for 15 days before termination or to terminate him immediately.
Your suggestions on how to proceed with this matter are crucial to me in managing employee 1.
Regards,
Vijaya
From India, Bangalore
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Even I am facing a similar situation at the moment in my company. I am working as an HR Executive and Recruiter in my present company. I would like to share my experience as well:
This employee has been employed since February. He was told about his targets and responsibilities quite clearly by the management as well as me. He accepted and started off. However, performance-wise, his output was not meeting the expectations of my management. When this was brought to my attention, I spoke with the employee and asked him about his challenges. He provided various reasons and excuses. One reason he mentioned was that he didn't understand the service line he was tasked with selling to prospective clients.
Considering this as a valid reason among others he shared, I informed the management. Subsequently, the management conducted a one-on-one with him and transferred him to a different service line that he claimed to be familiar with and more comfortable in. By this time, he was nearing the end of his two-month probation period.
I advised him to communicate any performance issues promptly to me and his superior. He was given time to settle in and continue his duties in the new service line. However, after another month, a performance review revealed that the management was still dissatisfied.
He mentioned that the management was not accepting the clients he was bringing in as a reason for his underperformance. We had another discussion with him, reiterating our services and what we offer to clients. At this point, a warning letter was issued, extending his probation by three months due to the lack of results or target achievement.
Following the warning letter, his performance showed a slight improvement for a brief period, but it was still rated as average by the management. Despite detailed explanations of our services, he struggled to attract the right clients.
Towards the end of May, it was discovered that he had been tampering with the surveillance camera in his workspace, attempting to avoid being recorded during work hours. This act of tampering was met with strong disapproval from his superiors and the management.
After a thorough performance review, it was evident that he was taking the extended probation period for granted, coupled with multiple leaves citing various reasons. A second warning letter was issued, addressing both his behavior and performance. Following this, he took a leave of five days due to severe back pain.
Upon his return, another discussion was held emphasizing the importance of his conduct and performance. It was made clear that if he did not improve to the expected levels, termination would be considered.
Subsequently, a new employee (employee 2) joined in the same shift as employee 1. Employee 1 proceeded to speak negatively about the company and its processes to employee 2, who provided feedback on this behavior.
Given the situation, termination of employee 1 is being considered. The question now is whether to give him a final chance for 15 days before termination or to terminate him immediately.
Your suggestions on how to proceed with this matter are crucial to me in managing employee 1.
Regards,
Vijaya
From India, Bangalore
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Dear Sohini,
Don't worry, dear. I would suggest you take her off from the position because if she continues this, the whole project is going to collapse. Take her out and give the responsibility to someone like what Ravi said. But it's better to take her out of the office as this may also affect other employees' performance. There is no meaning in keeping a girl without flexibility and performance.
Regards,
Merly
From India, Mumbai
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Don't worry, dear. I would suggest you take her off from the position because if she continues this, the whole project is going to collapse. Take her out and give the responsibility to someone like what Ravi said. But it's better to take her out of the office as this may also affect other employees' performance. There is no meaning in keeping a girl without flexibility and performance.
Regards,
Merly
From India, Mumbai
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Thank you, thanks a lot everybody for your valuable suggestions. Special thanks to Hsankararaman for explaining so nicely. I am trying to apply all possible ways to keep a healthy environment. Let's see how far I become successful.
From India, New Delhi
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From India, New Delhi
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Hi all,
I am Shaheela, a senior HR professional in an IT company. I am glad to be a part of this forum.
I have a crucial requirement; I am looking for logistics/commercial executives for the Finance Department in Bangalore with 4-6 years of experience. Please let me know if you have any contacts.
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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I am Shaheela, a senior HR professional in an IT company. I am glad to be a part of this forum.
I have a crucial requirement; I am looking for logistics/commercial executives for the Finance Department in Bangalore with 4-6 years of experience. Please let me know if you have any contacts.
Thank you.
From India, Bangalore
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Hello all,
This problem is not of an ignorant personnel who does not have a professional attitude. This problem pertains to the sequence of priorities the lady has (are you getting me?). Let me explain:
Such people work because -
1. They have qualifications.
2. Everyone else works.
3. One has to work.
4. Has to get married.
5. Does not want to stay at home.
6. Wants to be an independent and powerful woman (Mahila mukti style).
They do not have the following -
- Quest for efficiency.
- Desire to earn excellence and success.
- The feeling that work is bigger than the person, personality, ego, love, hatred, and so forth.
Do this -
1. Check whether your organization can't get the project done without her.
2. Is there a chance of some kind of loss or indirect retaliation if she leaves?
3. Can you find a way to make her realize?
Then, go ahead -
- If 1 and 2 do not apply, go, fire her. Human resources do not mean charity.
- If they are possible, think of the 3rd option. For that, you may read the suggestions given by many others.
And do remember, the chance is pretty minimal that she will understand. She will change only if this attitude of hers makes her repent at some stage of her personal or professional life. Because I am sure when you counsel her, she will keep thinking about what to reply, and that shall exude from her face.
Good luck, dear, be strong in taking decisions. Take honey late instead of savoring slow poison.
Satyabrata Tripathy
From India, New Delhi
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This problem is not of an ignorant personnel who does not have a professional attitude. This problem pertains to the sequence of priorities the lady has (are you getting me?). Let me explain:
Such people work because -
1. They have qualifications.
2. Everyone else works.
3. One has to work.
4. Has to get married.
5. Does not want to stay at home.
6. Wants to be an independent and powerful woman (Mahila mukti style).
They do not have the following -
- Quest for efficiency.
- Desire to earn excellence and success.
- The feeling that work is bigger than the person, personality, ego, love, hatred, and so forth.
Do this -
1. Check whether your organization can't get the project done without her.
2. Is there a chance of some kind of loss or indirect retaliation if she leaves?
3. Can you find a way to make her realize?
Then, go ahead -
- If 1 and 2 do not apply, go, fire her. Human resources do not mean charity.
- If they are possible, think of the 3rd option. For that, you may read the suggestions given by many others.
And do remember, the chance is pretty minimal that she will understand. She will change only if this attitude of hers makes her repent at some stage of her personal or professional life. Because I am sure when you counsel her, she will keep thinking about what to reply, and that shall exude from her face.
Good luck, dear, be strong in taking decisions. Take honey late instead of savoring slow poison.
Satyabrata Tripathy
From India, New Delhi
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Dear All,
Greetings to Everybody,
I am Hari, working as a Generalist HR for one of the IT companies. In our corporation, performance appraisals are currently ongoing. Could you please let me know what type of appraisals you are following in your companies? I need to do some research in this regard. It would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.
Thanks & Regards,
Srihari
From India, Hyderabad
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Greetings to Everybody,
I am Hari, working as a Generalist HR for one of the IT companies. In our corporation, performance appraisals are currently ongoing. Could you please let me know what type of appraisals you are following in your companies? I need to do some research in this regard. It would be greatly appreciated if you could assist me.
Thanks & Regards,
Srihari
From India, Hyderabad
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Dear Sohini,
I completely agree with the thoughts and suggestions of Vidya. She is right in saying that you need to win your employees' confidence and try to figure out the reasons for their tardiness. There may be personal or professional issues at play. Provide her with the best suggestions and check if she is engaged in work that interests her. Recognition could be a key motivator, and I believe that will be effective.
Regards,
Pankaj
From India, Chandigarh
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I completely agree with the thoughts and suggestions of Vidya. She is right in saying that you need to win your employees' confidence and try to figure out the reasons for their tardiness. There may be personal or professional issues at play. Provide her with the best suggestions and check if she is engaged in work that interests her. Recognition could be a key motivator, and I believe that will be effective.
Regards,
Pankaj
From India, Chandigarh
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Hi,
As a professional HR professional, I would suggest you take a look around the work environment. I mean, try to find out if the mentioned employee is maladjusted with her work. Most employees face adjustment problems at the very beginning, which may lead to maladjustment in the workplace. She may not be able to cope up with her work, friends, and even colleagues too.
Again, sometimes it may happen that she is being rejected by her workgroup, and she is trying to separate herself from the colleagues, etc. Go ahead, find the reason, and do your level best.
So, being in HR, please try to counsel her and let her know how your organization values her. Try communicating and keep motivating such employees. Always try to create a home-like environment in your organization.
Best Regards,
S. Borah
From India, Ahmadabad
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As a professional HR professional, I would suggest you take a look around the work environment. I mean, try to find out if the mentioned employee is maladjusted with her work. Most employees face adjustment problems at the very beginning, which may lead to maladjustment in the workplace. She may not be able to cope up with her work, friends, and even colleagues too.
Again, sometimes it may happen that she is being rejected by her workgroup, and she is trying to separate herself from the colleagues, etc. Go ahead, find the reason, and do your level best.
So, being in HR, please try to counsel her and let her know how your organization values her. Try communicating and keep motivating such employees. Always try to create a home-like environment in your organization.
Best Regards,
S. Borah
From India, Ahmadabad
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I have only one suggestion..."TERMINATE" her.... Do you love to see all other member working with happily and obey your orders and policies or you want them to have the same attitude... You are in HR and not mockery piece don't take decision from heart, use your brains.....How u can tolerate such things going in your company.....
Ravi
I understand your statement but .....we are doing business and not charity …by the end of the day client is paying good amount of money and they need deliveries.
From India, Pune
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Ravi
I understand your statement but .....we are doing business and not charity …by the end of the day client is paying good amount of money and they need deliveries.
From India, Pune
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