There seems to be no distinction drawn between administrative and managerial capacity/ function in relation to exclusion to the definition of workman. But it is clear that a technical manager, an R&D manager, Production manager or Safety officer is a manager but not involved in any administrative function. At the same time an Accounts or Finance Manager or an HR/Personnel Manager is a manager doing administrative work. Therefore, the term manager has a wider scope rather than administration.
let us also examine another verdict from the Apex Court which will be helpful for a person having 'some managerial roles'. In Ved Prakash Gupta Vs Delton Cable India Pvt Ltd (1984 AIR 914, 1984 SCR (3) 169) the question was whether a Security Inspector would come under the scope of workman. A perusal of the evidence showed that the substantial part of the work of the appellant Security Inspector
consisted of looking after the security of the factory and its property by deputing the watchmen working under him to work at the factory gate or sending them to watch-towers or around the factory or to accompany visitors. The appellant Security Inspector could never appoint or dismiss any workman or order any enquiry against any workman. It was held that the substantial duty of the appellant was only that of a Security Inspector at the gate of the factory premises and that it was neither managerial nor supervisory in nature. Therefore he clearly falls within the definition of workman under s.2(s) of the Act.
In another verdict, the Court observed that putting signature in the salary bills of the staff would not make a person employed mainly in managerial or administrative capacity ( Punjab Cooperative Bank Ltd Vs Bhatia (Dead through Lrs) AIR 1975 SC 1898, 1975 Lab.IC.1439 SC)
As observed in Andhra Scientific Co Vs Seshagiri Rao (AIR 1967 SC 408) whether an employee is a workman or not is a question of law. We should not ignore this fact. The burden to prove lies on the person who disputes the status of workman. I think it is also fine if you go through the verdict in Aloysius Nunes Vs Thomas Cook India Ltd ( 2000(3) MHLJ404, 2000 Lab.I.C.2091 Bom) which has elaborated the meaning of supervisory, administrative and managerial functions quoting different case laws.
I once again say that it is still a question of law and if you are confident that you have not been doing managerial functions it is easy for you to establish that you would fall under the scope of workman.
From India, Kannur
4244let us also examine another verdict from the Apex Court which will be helpful for a person having 'some managerial roles'. In Ved Prakash Gupta Vs Delton Cable India Pvt Ltd (1984 AIR 914, 1984 SCR (3) 169) the question was whether a Security Inspector would come under the scope of workman. A perusal of the evidence showed that the substantial part of the work of the appellant Security Inspector
consisted of looking after the security of the factory and its property by deputing the watchmen working under him to work at the factory gate or sending them to watch-towers or around the factory or to accompany visitors. The appellant Security Inspector could never appoint or dismiss any workman or order any enquiry against any workman. It was held that the substantial duty of the appellant was only that of a Security Inspector at the gate of the factory premises and that it was neither managerial nor supervisory in nature. Therefore he clearly falls within the definition of workman under s.2(s) of the Act.
In another verdict, the Court observed that putting signature in the salary bills of the staff would not make a person employed mainly in managerial or administrative capacity ( Punjab Cooperative Bank Ltd Vs Bhatia (Dead through Lrs) AIR 1975 SC 1898, 1975 Lab.IC.1439 SC)
As observed in Andhra Scientific Co Vs Seshagiri Rao (AIR 1967 SC 408) whether an employee is a workman or not is a question of law. We should not ignore this fact. The burden to prove lies on the person who disputes the status of workman. I think it is also fine if you go through the verdict in Aloysius Nunes Vs Thomas Cook India Ltd ( 2000(3) MHLJ404, 2000 Lab.I.C.2091 Bom) which has elaborated the meaning of supervisory, administrative and managerial functions quoting different case laws.
I once again say that it is still a question of law and if you are confident that you have not been doing managerial functions it is easy for you to establish that you would fall under the scope of workman.
From India, Kannur
Thanks word would be insufficient to show gratitude to you Madhu Sir. You posts are goldmine of knowledge. Sir, You are a Rockstar of CiteHr. Salute.
From India, Patna
From India, Patna
Respected Madhu Sir,
How are you sir? Must be super fine since you hitherto been active on this site and helping others with your profound wisdom. I eagerly read all your posts on various topics.
Quick recap of my last 3 months pertaining to my case/life.
ALC has started conciliation process by sending notice to all parties. On first date none from company side came, on 2nd date some local advocate came on company's behalf so i refused to engage with him, on 3rd date i reached late to ALC office and ALC informed me that someone from company had come and informed that company doesn't want case to be dragged in court so is ready to settle the issue through talk and ALC told me to discuss with him and report to him if we agreed on something and gave me his number and 4th date after 1 month assuming that we would have settled the matter well before that. When I called his number he turned out to be public prosecutor in my district court and senior of advocate who came on 2nd date. Nonetheless I agreed to have discussion with him on just my demands not on facts of case. But his attitude seemed evasive and we couldn't met and discussed so finally we met at ALC office on 4th date and he reiterated same point that company doesn't want to go to court and so on, but he was showing great hurry and kept insisting to let him go because DIG was calling. ALC genuinely wanted conciliation process to be successful so he gave 5th date and asked him to call me and discuss and reach to some conclusion. I was literally fed up and as expected he didn't call me ever again he reached on 5th date before time and repeated same thing to ALC and when I reached office on scheduled time, he had already gone. ALC he also seemed to be fed up with his attitude. So when ALC again asked me about my demand, I told him that i have clearly mentioned in application. I was being tortured psychologically, so I thought for a while and I told I will submit revised demand and asked him to convey to company that if they are genuinely interested in resolving it out of court, they must act in time bound manner not greater than 7 days. Next day, I submitted revised application to ALC after revising my alternative demand (Compensation) making it 50 lakh while other demand being reinstatement with full back wages till date as it is. Next day i. e. in last week of Apr, ALC sent yet another notice to Chenoa and 3 PillarGlobal through email and speed post copying me with my application and asked to respond within 3 days. But they failed to reply till now.
So, few days back ALC called me and asked me to submit an application for reference because of failure of conciliation which I submitted to office since he was not in office and busy in election duty.
I will meet him next week to discuss further course of action.
Dear Sir,
When I started walking on path of pursuit of justice than I was extremely confident about case, life and so on propelled by lethal mixture of righteousness + vengeance + my old habit but as time progressed, my confidence, physical and psychological well being, finance, hope have all taken a huge jolt.
Please tell me sir what shall I do now.
1.As ID Act amended in 2010 made it clear that terminated workman can directly file a case in labour court after expiring of 45 days from the date application was submitted for conciliation, irrespective of outcome of conciliation. So my question is shall I go and directly file a case under 2A in labour court Or wait for ALC or State Govt. to refer it. Will it make any difference if I choose either of 2.
2. I will fight my case and will not give consent to other parties to be represented by practising advocate while taking leave from court. Is it correct approach?
3. How do I file a case in court? I am not aware about processes, procedures etc.
4. Shall I file my same 8 page application submitted to ALC to Labour court as well or any modifications are necessary?
5. Does FOC report prepared by ALC carries any weight and make any impact on outcome of case?
There are many more sir.
Please sir tell me what shall I do now.
Please sir like as always enlighten with your knowledge and wisdom and bestow upon me your compassion.
Waiting for your response sir.
Thanks,
P. S - Attaching Complaint to ALC
From India, Patna
How are you sir? Must be super fine since you hitherto been active on this site and helping others with your profound wisdom. I eagerly read all your posts on various topics.
Quick recap of my last 3 months pertaining to my case/life.
ALC has started conciliation process by sending notice to all parties. On first date none from company side came, on 2nd date some local advocate came on company's behalf so i refused to engage with him, on 3rd date i reached late to ALC office and ALC informed me that someone from company had come and informed that company doesn't want case to be dragged in court so is ready to settle the issue through talk and ALC told me to discuss with him and report to him if we agreed on something and gave me his number and 4th date after 1 month assuming that we would have settled the matter well before that. When I called his number he turned out to be public prosecutor in my district court and senior of advocate who came on 2nd date. Nonetheless I agreed to have discussion with him on just my demands not on facts of case. But his attitude seemed evasive and we couldn't met and discussed so finally we met at ALC office on 4th date and he reiterated same point that company doesn't want to go to court and so on, but he was showing great hurry and kept insisting to let him go because DIG was calling. ALC genuinely wanted conciliation process to be successful so he gave 5th date and asked him to call me and discuss and reach to some conclusion. I was literally fed up and as expected he didn't call me ever again he reached on 5th date before time and repeated same thing to ALC and when I reached office on scheduled time, he had already gone. ALC he also seemed to be fed up with his attitude. So when ALC again asked me about my demand, I told him that i have clearly mentioned in application. I was being tortured psychologically, so I thought for a while and I told I will submit revised demand and asked him to convey to company that if they are genuinely interested in resolving it out of court, they must act in time bound manner not greater than 7 days. Next day, I submitted revised application to ALC after revising my alternative demand (Compensation) making it 50 lakh while other demand being reinstatement with full back wages till date as it is. Next day i. e. in last week of Apr, ALC sent yet another notice to Chenoa and 3 PillarGlobal through email and speed post copying me with my application and asked to respond within 3 days. But they failed to reply till now.
So, few days back ALC called me and asked me to submit an application for reference because of failure of conciliation which I submitted to office since he was not in office and busy in election duty.
I will meet him next week to discuss further course of action.
Dear Sir,
When I started walking on path of pursuit of justice than I was extremely confident about case, life and so on propelled by lethal mixture of righteousness + vengeance + my old habit but as time progressed, my confidence, physical and psychological well being, finance, hope have all taken a huge jolt.
Please tell me sir what shall I do now.
1.As ID Act amended in 2010 made it clear that terminated workman can directly file a case in labour court after expiring of 45 days from the date application was submitted for conciliation, irrespective of outcome of conciliation. So my question is shall I go and directly file a case under 2A in labour court Or wait for ALC or State Govt. to refer it. Will it make any difference if I choose either of 2.
2. I will fight my case and will not give consent to other parties to be represented by practising advocate while taking leave from court. Is it correct approach?
3. How do I file a case in court? I am not aware about processes, procedures etc.
4. Shall I file my same 8 page application submitted to ALC to Labour court as well or any modifications are necessary?
5. Does FOC report prepared by ALC carries any weight and make any impact on outcome of case?
There are many more sir.
Please sir tell me what shall I do now.
Please sir like as always enlighten with your knowledge and wisdom and bestow upon me your compassion.
Waiting for your response sir.
Thanks,
P. S - Attaching Complaint to ALC
From India, Patna
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Termination-emp loyment_563.pdf
Termination letter.doc